--- Log opened Mon May 08 00:00:47 2023
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07:34 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
08:06 <@Mirage> Is there some setting in Outlook that makes it only check for new email when you click on a folder or something?  I've been noticing more and more lately that folders don't always get updated for an hour or more.  This morning one of the folders jumped from 161 unread to 636 after I clicked on it.
08:06 <@Dagmar> 1. You're using Outlook
08:06 <@Mirage> VPN isn't dropping or anything, which would explain it if it were
08:06 <@Dagmar> 2. You're probably blocking QUIC
08:06 <@Mirage> Dagmar: Corp laptop.. like I have a choice
08:07 <@Dagmar> So then _they're_ probably blockin QUIC
08:07 <@Dagmar> As best I can tell that's what it uses to get notifications and such
08:07 <@Dagmar> ...in addiiton to just fucking up a lot
08:14 <@Dolemite> Lost a breaker this weekend.   Had an extension cord that some critter had chewed part of...   caused some nice sparks and the breaker decided it had tripped enough times that it didn't want to close back up...   and in the subsequent shutdown of the main breaker to the panel (so I could safely swap in a new breaker) one of my 4 TB drives decided it didn't want to spin back up.   Amazon to the rescue, 
08:14 <@Dolemite> should have the replacement this afternoon.
08:15 < dasunt> It's Monday.  Make your guesses about the mean time to the first WTF moment is.
08:15 < dasunt> (Spoiler:  Guessing it is before noon)
08:15 <@Dagmar> Probably thirty seconds after I get a call from Fortinet
08:16 < dasunt> LOL.
08:16 <@Dagmar> I've managed to determine that the Fortigate's DNS repeater _is_ caching zero TTL records, but the exact length is indeterminate
08:17 < dasunt> That's special.
08:17 <@Dagmar> Fuckin' fine by me, because I am not querying it that fast and just need to know if the upstream resolver isn't fucked
08:17 <@Dagmar> ...but I will lose my shit if the person from Fortinet tries to convince me that it's not doing this
08:17 < dasunt> The poor little entries have no time to live.  Fortinet is just giving them the long life they deserve.
08:18 <@Dagmar> Welll, Quad9 does it but at least they don't fuck with you and _show_ you the 5-second TTL they replaced it with
08:18 <@Dagmar> But like, this thing is coming back with a TXT record that supposedly involved a lookup across the internet in under 10ms
08:19 <@Dagmar> There's literally two domains of response time for it.  125ms, and 8ms
08:19 <@Dagmar> ...and all the other resolver tests are ~110-150ms
08:20 <@Dagmar> So... I'm pretty fuckin' sure it's cached
08:20 <@Dagmar> ...but they've got support people who will try to gaslight you over shit like this, just because they'd decided that it couldn't possibly be caching since someone said the TTL was zero
08:21 < dasunt> How is their support people?  Are they just reading from a script?
08:21 < dasunt> "Please reboot your machine to fix the issue."
08:21 <@Dagmar> ...and _that_ is the subject of the conversation we're probably having today or tomorrow.  THat they need to remind their people that they're dealing with guys who have 20+ years of experience and don't appreciate being bullshitted
08:22 <@Dagmar> Dude I hate their support people
08:22 <@Dagmar> THey've got _some_ good ones but it's almost impossible to reach them
08:22 <@Dagmar> You generally have to convince the first tier of people that you know what you're talking about first
08:22 <@Dagmar> ...which usually means _teaching them what the fuck BGP is_ and shit like that
08:23 <@Dagmar> I had a woman sit there over gotomeeting and manually verify all the IP addresses assigned to the four sd-wan tunnels being used
08:24 <@Dagmar> We were trying to diagnose a BGP problem, which I'd already nailed down to very likely BGP simply refusing to do more than two routes at a time
08:24 <@Dagmar> I didn't know _why_ it was doing that, but I was on teh right track
08:24 <@Dagmar> She's checking the IP addresses of four tunnels _while we are accessing the equiment in question over those four tunnels_
08:25 <@Dagmar> I came very close to saying "Bitch, if those are wrong then how the fuck are we using the web interface?"
08:25 <@Dagmar> It's bad enough they've got newbs in tech support roles.  What makes it worse is the noobs frequently don't know they're noobs
08:27 <@Dagmar> I have a feeling I'm about to get one of their employees banned from their community forums, too, which will probably be for the best
08:44 < dasunt> I'm just looking at issues at work, and it's always an onion clusterfuck.
08:45 < dasunt> Peel back the first layer of clusterfuck, and there's layers beneath.
09:04 < dasunt> What's a good python IRC channel?
09:04 < Evilpig_> there is such a thing?
09:04 < Evilpig_> I would assume ##python is a thing
09:05 < dasunt> It seems a bit dead.
09:06 < Evilpig_> https://www.python.org/community/irc/
09:06 < PigBot> Internet Relay Chat | Python.org (at www.python.org) https://tinyurl.com/lcgsy7d
09:07 < Evilpig_> what are you trying to figure out?
09:08 < dasunt> Got a subprocess.run that hangs, and TIMEOUT doesn't resolve it.  Thinking about trying subprocess.popen instead with a loop to timeout and kill the subprocess if it doesn't return in time.
09:08 < Evilpig_> https://discord.com/invite/python
09:08 < PigBot> Python (at discord.com) https://tinyurl.com/2euntsac
09:08 < Evilpig_> that's a GIANT channel.  gees
09:09 < Evilpig_> I think I had to do something similar.  let me check
09:11 < dasunt> I'm spinning off about 100 threads, each of which does a subprocess.run, which also may be a problem.  But it appears to be the actual ansible-playbook executable that hangs on certain servers, and never times out.
09:11 < dasunt> Which is fun.
09:13 < Evilpig_> looks like i've got all .run and .check_output
09:13 < dasunt> Huh.
09:13 < Evilpig_> I thought I had a few with popen
09:14 < dasunt> I'm not sure why subprocess.run does not seem to use the TIMEOUT parameter, but that may be a problem with the subprocess hanging.
09:14 < Evilpig_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1si3te8pk4lrq0/Screenshot%202023-05-07%20at%2010.12.05%20PM.png?dl=0
09:14 < PigBot> Dropbox - Screenshot 2023-05-07 at 10.12.05 PM.png - Simplify your life (at www.dropbox.com) https://tinyurl.com/2zvhp7rl
09:14 < Evilpig_> found this in one of my vim plugins that uses subprocess
09:15 < dasunt> Is that the wrong cut & paste?
09:15 < Evilpig_>         Raises CmdFailed   -> return code for Popen isn't 0
09:15 < Evilpig_>         Raises CmdTimedOut -> command exceeded timeout without new output
09:15 < Evilpig_> yup
09:15 < Evilpig_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1si3te8pk4lrq0/Screenshot%202023-05-07%20at%2010.12.05%20PM.png?dl=0
09:15 < PigBot> Dropbox - Screenshot 2023-05-07 at 10.12.05 PM.png - Simplify your life (at www.dropbox.com) https://tinyurl.com/2zvhp7rl
09:16 < Evilpig_> fuck you dropbox!
09:16 < Evilpig_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/deuow7w730fxkd1/Screenshot%202023-05-08%20at%209.14.24%20AM.png?dl=0
09:16 < PigBot> Dropbox - Screenshot 2023-05-08 at 9.14.24 AM.png - Simplify your life (at www.dropbox.com) https://tinyurl.com/2kynonh6
09:30 < dasunt> LOL
09:33 < dasunt> Okay, that's helpful.
09:34 < dasunt> I've been asking various AIs for code examples, btw, and some of them are hillarious.
09:41 < dasunt> AI is not going to be taking coders' jobs anytime soon.  Asking it to write a simple function is pretty inconsistent.
10:06 <@Dolemite> Evilpig_: Have you checked out the new show, "Bupkis"?
10:10 <@Dagmar> If they're still asking coders to undergo drug testing they have no business using AI to produce code
10:34 < ShellGh0st> The drug free ones are writing all the shitty code.
10:34 < ShellGh0st> :)
10:35 < ShellGh0st> I go around deleting boilerplate and making it data driven and declarative a lot these days.
10:35 < ShellGh0st> Like, why put all that in code when you can put it all in data and write a little tiny processor for the data
10:36 < ShellGh0st> But I had the config-with-conventions and data-driven revelation a long time ago.  
10:37 < ShellGh0st> and now just keep confirming it while wondering about the sanity of my predecessors...
11:04  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
11:11 <@Mirage> Finally getting around to the latest Ghosts(US).  Literally LOL'd at the Nigerian Prince email
11:15 <@Dolemite> I laughed so hard in the first episode of Bupkis that I got hiccups
11:21 < Evilpig_> Dolemite: I have it, my brother wanted it, but I haven't checked it out yet
11:22 <@Dolemite> All star cast of comedians
11:22 <@Dolemite> If Bob Saget were still alive he'd definitely be in it
11:24 < Evilpig_> I'm gonna have to open another support ticket with palo alto and I am not looking forward to this
11:24 <@Dolemite> Neither are they
11:24 <@Dolemite> LOL
11:25 < Evilpig_> I've done hte legwork on this already and I can explain it but I don't know how they are calling the openssl on the system
11:26 < Evilpig_> all I know for sure is they aren't pulling the openssl config from the system and they are setting their own inside their process.
11:26 < Evilpig_> that makes sense with what they are doing, but after seeing their other code quality I suspect this is just as shitty
11:27 < Evilpig_> I know they are reading /etc/os-release and specifically looking for the REDHAT_ variables
11:29 < Evilpig_> IF it gets RHEL8 or 9 it sets the option for openssl3 to allow unsafe renegotiation.  so I can break the client easily, but when the client breaks and those variables are set I can't troubleshoot how / what / why it's getting what for the openssl options
11:29 < Evilpig_> Surely there is a way for them to pull the openssl binary or library on the system and get the version directly from that and NOT depend on the system to tell it what the OS is
11:30 < Evilpig_> and make the openssl settings based on the OS declaration
11:32 < Evilpig_> completely other topic.  a dude I know that used to be in tech that has gone into prepper / lunatic mode put something on facebook about using chatgpt to refine a script he was updating for a commercial and how it was really neat and scary.  the normal shit you hear about folks saying after messing with it
11:32 < Evilpig_> the comments brought out the looney toons.
11:33 < Evilpig_> "Every time someone uses it they’re participating in the acceleration of AI singularity. I don’t think most people have are even remotely aware of the monster they’re helping to create."
11:34 < Evilpig_> he stirs the pot more by responding to these types of people echoing back their crap and then further adding to it.  god help us when real AI comes along
12:06 < Evilpig_> good on these kids.  that's hella impressive.  https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local-students-graduate-from-community-college-before-graduating-high-school/article_d11a1cde-edb9-11ed-8305-db43520aca5d.html
12:06 < PigBot> 23 local students graduate from community college before graduating high school | <span class="tnt-section-tag no-link">News</span> | WPSD Local 6 (at www.wpsdlocal6.com) https://tinyurl.com/2oz7gh8o
12:08 <@Dolemite> Here's something crazy impressive.   My daughter turned 14 on Friday.  She had applied for a job at Publix by Saturday afternoon (minimum age is 14).
12:09 <@Dolemite> She wants to start saving up them ducats for college
13:01 <@opticron> I hear publix is a pretty great place to work
13:01 <@opticron> and that they tend to take care of their employees
13:05 <@Dolemite> yeah, only the employees can buy their stock
13:25 <@Mirage> LOL..  Email came out from Corp talking about moving back to a "Hybrid Workplace".   I ping'd my Mgr asking if that effects us, he said he'd just ping'd our director asking the same thing.
13:26 <@Mirage> I really don't see it happening for us since we have team members all over the US.  Mgr is in NC, his Mgr is in FL.  There MIGHT be 5-6 people from out extended original group still in the company and local to the area at this point.  Most have either moved or moved on
13:29 < ShellGh0st> Mirage: It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle once you start hiring lots of ppl remote.
13:29 < ShellGh0st> I'm glad.
13:29 <@Mirage> Hell, our office doesn't even exist any more.  They'd dropped one floor from the lease when we got shifted to remote and then closed it during covid.  I think the only people who didn't get switched to remote and got moved/transferred were some payroll and HR people who got shipped down to Austin or out to the Boston area
13:30 < ShellGh0st> I was self isolating before the pandemic and have avoided going into the office, except for an occasional client meeting, since 2011.
13:31 < ShellGh0st> When I quit a job in 2011 the CTO mentioned I should get a job where I work from home, and he added "IF THAT'S EVEN POSSIBLE."   I listened to him. :)
13:31 < ShellGh0st> Yeah it's saved a ton of money on rent and infrastructure for a lot of IT
13:32 < ShellGh0st> It was stupid that we ever had to commute to do informational work, since the 90s or something.
13:33 < ShellGh0st> Spend 1/3 of your time in the bedroom, 1/3 in the office, 1/3 in the living room and kitchen
13:33 < ShellGh0st> what if they were all the same room :)
13:35 < ShellGh0st> or what if you had to drive a long way to go to the office where your employer pays rent and heat/AC
13:35 <@Mirage> 25 min in on Silo and so far unimpressed
13:36 <@Dolemite> I took until the second episode to get any kind of a hook
13:36 < ShellGh0st> Is that like Fallout Shelter, the Apple TV series version?
13:37 < ShellGh0st> I watched Foundation and also For All Mankind on Apple TV, they were okay
13:37 < ShellGh0st> that's all of their offerings I have seen.
13:46 <@opticron> Mirage, there have been rumblings where I work as well, but they downsized the office and are not prepared to drag me kicking and screaming back
13:47 <@opticron> no additional have actually been hired as fully remote workers, but there's no way they could stuff the locals back in there
14:02 < Evilpig_> my management just made the argument that with so many people working remotely now it doesn't make sense to staff the caffeteria on campus any longer and it's making things like maintenance tasks take longer because the folks on site have to wait around for people to come onsite to fix things and with the loss of conveniences on the campus it's getting harder to get those maintenance people to site
14:13 <@Dagmar> ShellGh0st: I look at it this way... What if our entire economy weren't unwholesomely tied to the growth of the petroleum industry?
14:13 <@Dagmar> ...and what if instead of sitting in a car, people got to spend an extra 45 minutes a day being actually productive at something
14:13 <@Dagmar> ...instead of just being a consumer
14:14 <@Dagmar> The walk from my bedroom to the workstation doesn't leave me with high blood pressure and a distinct sense that I'm lucky to be alive
14:14 <@Dagmar> ...and in my case it's closer to two and a half hours a day lost.
14:15 <@Dagmar> So literally, a whole workday's worth of hours spent stuck in the car, being not even slightly productive
14:16 <@Dagmar> That's just a drag on the parts of the economy that isn't centered around fossil fuels
14:17 <@Dagmar> According to some extremely optimistic statistics online, Nashville's average commute time is 27.6 minutes
14:18 <@Dagmar> I suspect that only applies to people who actually work _in_ Nashville, but with traffic being what it is, it's probably a safe bet that most of the people working in Davidson county are losing 5-8 hours per week just to driving
14:25 <@Dagmar> Damnit.
14:25 <@Dagmar> THere's no perl-Apache-DBI for EPEL9
14:26 < Evilpig_> that 27 minute commute time is going to be back for me next year and it's going to be like an hour plus easily
14:27 < Evilpig_> I have to drive from bellevue to the marathon area to drop sabrina off for school every day at 8am
14:52 <@Dolemite> I'll have about 30 minutes total on days that I need to go pick my daughter's friend that lives in Loudon County.
14:52 <@Dolemite> pick up
15:38 < Evilpig_> this current plexserver build is the flakiest in a long while
15:39 < Evilpig_> damn thing has crashed twice on me today.  5 times in total since htey pushed it out a few weeks ago
15:40 < Evilpig_> Apr 27 03:19 1.32.1.6999-91e1e2e2c - 5 crashes
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19:12 <@Dagmar> Evilpig_: OMG have you seen 'A Man Called Otto' yet?  I think you will enjoy it mightily (at least the first part)
19:18 <@Dagmar> I like how they used to do their licencing
19:18 <@Dagmar> @#$@#
19:57 < Evilpig_> I think I did.  let me look
19:58 < Evilpig_> I have it, not watched it
19:58 < Evilpig_> it's in the backlog.  I did just finish bupkis and it definitely had some good moments
20:33 <@Dagmar> You will love it.
20:34 <@Dagmar> Tom Hanks plays the role of 'Otto'.  A fully-functional adult in a world full of, well, people.
20:44 < Evilpig_> watching this right this second.  https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/2832
20:44 < PigBot> Identity (2003) — The Movie Database (TMDB) (at www.themoviedb.org) https://tinyurl.com/2zwmnmaj
20:44 < Evilpig_> I may check otu otta when I crawl into bed
22:18 < Evilpig_> https://www.joblo.com/evil-dead-rise-digital-release/
22:18 < PigBot> Evil Dead Rise gets digital release tomorrow, physical media release next month (at www.joblo.com) https://tinyurl.com/2flkg6hj
--- Log closed Tue May 09 00:00:49 2023