--- Log opened Fri Jan 20 00:00:32 2023
00:06 <@Dagmar> o.O TASK ERROR: KVM virtualisation configured, but not available. Either disable in VM configuration or enable in BIOS.
00:07 <@Dagmar> Okay.  Fuck this piece of shit
00:07 <@Dagmar> If all the system can be bothered to say is _that_ when I was running things just fine with no complaints from qemu earlier, this is not useful software
00:12  * Dagmar goes poking around in the BIOS some more
01:31 < aestetix> speaking of BIOS
01:31 < aestetix> I have a question, maybe one of you has a tip
01:32 < aestetix> I have an old Thinkpad T430.... I tried to do a BIOS update and it looks like it bricked it. Is there a way to force the system to start the process again with a known good bios update?
01:33 < aestetix> It's giving a POST code, but that doesn't make sense because it didn't before the BIOS upgrade that failed
01:33 < aestetix> unless a failed BIOS update can somehow kill a stick of ram
07:10 < Evilpig> a failed bios update could brick a system based on ram if it screwed with the timings but typically those would just revert to some safer, unoptimized values
07:11 < Evilpig> laptops are less likely to have a backup bios version that it can flip to.  only ever seen that on desktop motherboards
07:33 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
08:04 <@Dagmar> If it's AMI or AWARD there's typically an emergency backup procedure in the bootstrap, but laptops are usually Phoenix
08:42 < aestetix> Evilpig: yep, newer laptops have the bios backup, this one didn't
08:42 < aestetix> I mean it's not that big a deal, it's more the principle, I want my little system back
08:47 < aestetix> unrelated, the new colossal cave game came out
08:48 <@Mirage> aestetix: why were you updating the bios?  was it to fix something or just because there was a newer version?
08:49 < aestetix> Mirage: just because there was a newer version
08:59 < aestetix> ugh the new wikipedia design is awful
09:08 <@Dagmar> There's some serious "We know what's best for you" design decisions in proxmox that are just fuckin' stupid
09:10 <@Dagmar> Per example, when creating a bridge interface there's a fucking text box
09:10 <@Dagmar> Yet the textbox really only takes a digit because it will not _let_ you put anything but "vmbr" and a number in there
09:11 <@Dagmar> My box is set up with a single interface which is a member of a bridge along with all the vms, and apparently that's just "not supported" at all
09:11 <@Dagmar> ...which is rather a load of shit
09:12 <@Dagmar> They're enforcing pretty closed-minded design decisions right there in the interface and fuck that kind of person
09:16 <@Dagmar> Not allowing someone to use DHCP to configure an interface is fairly fuckin' thickwitted
09:20 <@Dagmar> yeah I'm about to uninstall this shit
09:21 <@Dagmar> Ya'll can like it all you want
09:21 <@Dagmar> There's too much "we know better than everyone else" in their design
09:22 <@Dagmar> Seriously, where the fuck do they get off demanding to control the names of the logical volumes?
09:22 <@Dagmar> I can think of not even one damn good reason to behave like htat
09:23 <@Dagmar> I thought I could just change the conf file for the VM and get around that, and it recognizes the change immediately but then fails to start the VM claiming it can't parse the filename
09:23 <@Dagmar> ...why the fuck does it need to parse the filename in the first place?
09:23 <@Dagmar> What amateur shit is it to take metata _from_ the filename when the whole damn machine is already fully-defined
09:43 < Evilpig> https://capture.dropbox.com/T5yngNYK7BrmFNe8
09:43 < PigBot> Dropbox Capture (at capture.dropbox.com) https://tinyurl.com/2f4m2gwr
09:44 < Evilpig> Not sure what issues you're having with the networking unless it's in the installer but mine is fine
09:44 <@Dagmar> Oh it could _see_ my other bridge, named 'bridge0'
09:44 <@Dagmar> It just refused to let me use that for virtual NICs
09:45 <@Dagmar> Under 'Type' it just showed 'Unknown'
09:45 < Evilpig> it sounds like the bulk of your problems are "I already have this VM defined from another system and I want these values specifically"
09:45 <@Dagmar> No
09:45 < Evilpig> which is a valid complaint
09:45 <@Dagmar> My issues are that they're being pretty fuckin' closed-minded
09:45 <@Dagmar> There's no reason to _not_ allow a bridge interface to be configured with DHCP
09:46 <@Dagmar> If someone wants to do that, they should very much be allowed to
09:46 <@Dagmar> ...and this thing is just making changes to /etc/network/interfaces anyway, so changing "inet manual" to "inet dhcp" and droping two lines should not be a big deal
09:47 <@Dagmar> Even listing the VMs is onerous
09:47 <@Dagmar> It's _got_ to be by number, because they know better than everyone else
09:48 < Evilpig> I see that as a simple way to maintain a set of standards for their scripting
09:48 <@Dagmar> huh?
09:49 < Evilpig> if you only have to code teh scripts around vm101 102, etc you don't have to worry about user created issues like inserting random ascii, internationization problems, users wanting spaces, etc
09:49 <@Dagmar> Thta's not what I'm talking about
09:49 < Evilpig> it's just an ID
09:49 <@Dagmar> There doesn't appear to be a way to sort the list of vms by their given name
09:49 <@Dagmar> THat might as well be a comment field
09:50 <@Dagmar> ...and sorting by different criteria is exactly what you'd want there
09:50 < Evilpig> there isn't.  they're just sorted by id which can be annoying but you're free to submit them a pull on a better menu
09:50 <@Dagmar> They're fine to require simple numbers for the internal name of the file, but to not sort the presentation list by the human-assigned name is fuckin dim
09:50 < Evilpig> if you delete an older vm and then make a new one later it will put it in the hole too, which is arguably more irritating
09:51 <@Dagmar> Like, "our whole deal is a web interface for your shit, but we're not really going to put much effort into it beyond copypasting fancy things we found on news.ycomibinator"
09:51 <@Dagmar> virt-manager sorts by the name you gave things
09:52 <@Dagmar> I'm running some perf tests right now or I'd already have re-wiped the box to revert to stock Debian 11.6
09:52 < aestetix> damn everyone is doing layoffs
09:52 < aestetix> at least in tech
09:52 <@Dagmar> This is no different from any other year
09:53 < aestetix> Does google lay off 12k employees every year?
09:53 < aestetix> And amazon, 18k?
09:53 <@Dagmar> You bait people in with the idea of vested shares and longevity, get lots of manpower rolling in an unsustainable way to get development to happen quickly so you can "disrupt" and then when you've made enough of a splash you cut staff to the bone to make yourself look profitable
09:53 <@Dagmar> Not every year but just about every other year
09:54 <@Dagmar> The important thing is that executive salaries go up each year, never down
09:55 < NotLarry> pvesh get /cluster/resources --type vm
09:55 <@Dagmar> That can only happen by satiating investor greed.
09:55 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: If I wanted to use virsh I wouldn't be touching this greenhorn shitshow
09:55 < Evilpig> that matches the menu layout
09:56 <@Dagmar> I actually typically put the name of the service class in the VM name
09:56 < NotLarry> Dagmar: Sorry, you seem upset about the dummed down gui made for people who are afraid of kvm or bash.  
09:56 <@Dagmar> like, "prod:ammo"
09:56 <@Dagmar> So they sort nice and neat
09:57 <@Dagmar> NotLarry: Mainly I'm irked that the people excited about it are apparently unaware that there are less user-hostile ways of doing this shit
09:57 <@Dagmar> ...and it makes me worry about the number of people who are using containers because they have heard it's the new hotness, not because they have a clue what's actually going on under the hood
09:58 < Evilpig> that is exactly what containers are and why they're so big.
09:58 <@Dagmar> virt-manager doesn't much care about containers, and promox has a bunch of stuff for multiple authorities
09:58 <@Dagmar> ...but I don't really need to give a shit about whether or not some dev can get at the console of their shit
09:59 <@Dagmar> ...but virt-manager is _way_ further along with being an interface that's actually useable
09:59 <@Dagmar> That deos things that help
10:00 <@Dagmar> It seems like the features in proxmox were selected based on what would be flashy, rather than useful
10:00 <@Dagmar> ...and that whole "we know better than you" thing is a real pain in the as
10:01 <@Dagmar> Like, if they're going to go so far as to argue no one should ever use mdadm anymore because zfs exists, then you'd think they mgiht have a problem with letting people use an unsigned cert to enter the root fuckin' password
10:02 <@Dagmar> The difference there is that one of them is a personal peeve of a developer and the other isn't
10:03 <@Dagmar> Yammering about "bit rot" and fighting against that is _way_ less productive than making people spin up a custom cert of some kind so they can be sure they're not getting MITMed on day one
10:05 <@Dagmar> ...but at least they're not cockpit and doing it over http
10:45 <@Dagmar> *sigh* man I am not a fan of the tool used to allocate disks during a debian install
10:46 <@Dagmar> I'm pretty sure it's dialog/gdialog/zenity but some of the UX is disheartening
11:07 <@Dagmar> ...mainly that you have to essentially "double-confirm" when you're changing the settings for a partition
12:05 <@Dagmar> ...and "just like that" virt-manager works right out of the box with Debian 11.6
12:56 <@Dagmar> Interesting.  The debian build doesn't seem to have a problem with using an EPYC CPU type, where the RHEL build was still stuck on Opteron_G3 and I couldn't even get them to boot with Opteron_G5
12:56 <@Dagmar> ...and that shaved a full minute off the computation time on that job I was using as a benchmark (down to 14m23s)
--- Log closed Sat Jan 21 00:00:33 2023