--- Log opened Thu Jun 25 00:00:36 2020
02:27 < aestetix_> so
02:27 < aestetix_> the statue drama has just jumped the shark
02:27 < aestetix_> https://bookandfilmglobe.com/creators/writers/cervantes-statue-defiled/
02:27 < PigBot> The Defiling of Miguel de Cervantes - Book and Film Globe (at bookandfilmglobe.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycf7dbdp
05:52 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
05:53 <@Dolemite> So I wonder if the firing of the US Attorney at SDNY is going to affect Virgil's case in any way?
05:54 <@Dolemite> I can't fina any recent updates on his case, other than to hear that they are going to do trial by phone/web session due to Covid19
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07:08  * aestetix_ hugs Dolemite 
07:08 < aestetix_> Dolemite: his case is ongoing. I'm in touch with him
07:09 < aestetix_> speaking of legal news
07:09 < aestetix_> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-charged-superseding-indictment
07:09 < PigBot> WikiLeaks Founder Charged in Superseding Indictment | OPA | Department of Justice (at www.justice.gov) http://tinyurl.com/ybxqe229
07:51 <@Corydon76> Isn't that headline a little misleading.  My understanding of the history of Wikileaks is that he wasn't the founder.  He was a guy who volunteered to manage the domain and site, and subsequently forced the actual founders out.
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08:58 <@Dolemite> Man, I am so glad that crimes are down so much that Trump can have US Marshals assigned to guard statues in DC.
10:20 -!- aestetix_ is now known as aestetix
10:30 <@Mirage> Nice.. https://communityimpact.com/dallas-fort-worth/mckinney/development/2020/06/23/officials-give-go-ahead-for-proposed-18-lane-indoor-shooting-range-in-mckinney/
10:30 < PigBot> Officials give go-ahead for proposed 18-lane indoor shooting range in McKinney | Community Impact Newspaper (at communityimpact.com) http://tinyurl.com/y9cjx2nv
10:33 <@Dolemite> Mirage: You mean to tell me that every 3rd building in Texas isn't already an indoor shooting range?
10:34 <@Mirage> There are quite a few around, but most of them are members only.  I don't know of any public ranges around like the one we used to go to in Nashville.
10:35 <@Corydon76> How difficult is it to become a member of those shooting ranges?
10:35 <@Mirage> You just have to pay $$, but I wouldn't go often enough for it to be worth it.
10:36 <@Corydon76> Some "members-only" clubs are just formalities in order to get around specific regulations that have exceptions for clubs.
10:37 <@Mirage> The ones that do allow you to go in as a "guest" aren't especially cheap to go in to rent a lane for an hour and require you to buy targets and ammo from them.  So what on the face of it looks like $20-30 per hour to go shoot quickly turns into more like $70-80
10:38 < aestetix> you know
10:38 < aestetix> I would not mind going to a shooting range sometime
10:41 <@Corydon76> aestetix: to practice shooting all zero of the firearms that Germany lets you possess?
10:41 < aestetix> yeah....
10:41 < aestetix> well on the offchance we actually do have a nazi uprising, would be a useful skill :p
10:41 <@Dagmar> Mirage: Ever seen a situation where systemd can just fail to start simple shit with the default config (like snmpd)?
10:42 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: yep, and the logs are singularly unhelpful as to why?
10:43 <@Dagmar> yeah it doesn't say shit
10:43 <@Dagmar> I can start it with the exact same args, no problem
10:43 <@Dagmar> systemd just fails with "snmpd.service failed to run 'start' task: Cannot allocate memory"
10:44 <@Dagmar> The box only has 512M but 168M of that is buffers/cache
10:45 <@Corydon76> Is SysV memory included in the buffers/cache?
10:45 <@Dagmar> Why would it when the box is using systemd
10:46 <@Corydon76> I think you misunderstand.  SysV memory is a type of shared memory (between processes)
10:46 <@Dagmar> Whatever has always been included in buffers/cache is what's included now
10:47 <@Dagmar> There's 13Mb of RAM just going unused right now
10:47 <@Dagmar> It's not short on RAM
10:47 <@Dagmar> The box is basically doing f**k all other than bucket-brigading a samba mount
10:47 <@Dagmar> I'm just going to chalk this up to "systemd is shit"
10:48 <@Corydon76> So, basically, it's trying to allocate more memory than you need, and because the box lacks sufficient resources, you're getting that error
10:49 <@Corydon76> Normally swap would be the answer, but I take it swap isn't possible on this platform?
10:50 <@Dagmar> Swap's there and still has 9M free
10:51 <@Corydon76> Is this a platform that requires the use of vfork, because optimistic memory sharing isn't possible?
10:52 <@Dagmar> It's a freakin' CentOS 7.6 box
10:52 <@Dagmar> It's not something esoteric
10:52 <@Dagmar> It's _far_ more likely that systemd is doing something stupid than anything else
10:52 <@Corydon76> CentOS on Intel x86_64, I assume?
10:53 <@Dagmar> no, I'm running it on a sack of magic beans
10:53 <@Dagmar> This isn't even the only 512Mb instance I'm running
10:54 <@Corydon76> What's the value of sysctl vm.overcommit_memory ?
10:54 <@Dagmar> Zero.  Same as everywhere else.
10:55 <@Corydon76> Ah.  Set it to 1.
10:57 <@Dagmar> god only knows how much RAM systemd has been asking for then
10:58 <@Corydon76> It's not systemd, really, though, it's the kernel.
10:58 <@Corydon76> When that value is zero, the kernel does an estimate, and it's the kernel which is denying it.
10:59 <@Dagmar> WEll, the kernel is denying it based on the total amount it's asking for, but it's _clearly_ getting enough allocated for it to function
11:00 <@Corydon76> The difference when you run it directly versus when systemd runs it is that the kernel calculates based upon the invoking process.  If systemd uses more memory than your shell (likely), then the kernel guesses that you need more memory.
11:00 <@Dagmar> ...which is fuckin' sad because it's an init
11:00 <@Dagmar> Then again, it was designed by newb-asses
11:01 <@Dagmar> I shouldn't be surprised that it's managing to appear more heavyweight than bash
11:02 <@Corydon76> But that's also why the overcommit works.  You're telling the kernel not to guess.
11:02 <@Corydon76> You could also try setting it to 2, but that's another kernel algorithm, though a simpler one.
11:03 <@Dagmar> @!#$@#$
11:03 <@Dagmar> Same crap there, which is why I was blaming systemd
11:04 <@Dagmar> It's asking for more thant he kernel is willing to hand over, but is apparentlty getting enough back that it can function without bursting into flames
11:04 <@Corydon76> If you're running at near memory limits, it's what you have to do, because the kernel is *never* going to be smarter than you.
11:04 <@Corydon76> Well, it's happening in the fork(), not in the exec()
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11:06 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: was it selinux stopping someting and being a twat about notifying anything that it stopped the startup?
11:06 <@Dagmar> Nope
11:06 < nolar> Is there a way, with putty.exe, to tunnel x11 forwarding in a single putty session?
11:06 <@Evilpig> can I still blame selinux for being a twat?
11:06 <@Corydon76> That's why the invoking process makes a difference.  The kernel has *no* concept of you invoking a new process at that step.
11:06 <@Dagmar> I took a shot that it might be something new in selinux very early on
11:06 <@Dagmar> nolar: Yes
11:06 <@Evilpig> notlarry: yeah just flip the option on for x11 forwarding
11:06 <@Dagmar> nolar: Just wade around in the endless config menu
11:07 <@Corydon76> Might be nice to say to the kernel, I'm gonna fork() in order to launch THIS process, and base your memory guesses on THAT one, not the originating process, but we don't have that yet.
11:07 <@Dagmar> And crap
11:08 <@Dagmar> I'm going to jhave to set some restrictions on samba
11:10 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: wouldn't be a bad idea to have such a conversation with a kernel developer, if you're so inclined.
11:10 <@Corydon76> May not help you until CentOS 10 or later, but still...
11:10 <@Mirage> nolar: google for "putty xming"
11:12 <@Corydon76> It would have to be fork2(2) or possibly even a variable argument fork(2), like exists with open(2)
11:12 < nolar> ok, I don't think I was clear.  I have two servers and a client.  One server has ext/int the server I want to x11 forward to has int, the windows client has ext.  I tunnel ssh throught the ext/int server to the int server then run another putty to the tunnel with X11 forwarding.
11:13 -!- nolar is now known as notlarry
11:18 <@Mirage> I can't remember, but I think that so long as you have sshd_config configured properly for forwarding on the intermediary so that DISPLAY gets set then x11 will get passed along from the next hop...but I could be wrong.  Been quite awhile since I was jumping through Dogberry/Catberry at VU and opening up GUI crap on the backup servers or that stupid ass PBX logging server
11:20 <@Mirage> I'm assuming you already have xauth and Xvfb installed on the end and intermediary..or, god forbit, they both have X installed on them
11:20 <@Dagmar> Umm... If you're doing a single putty session that's on workstation A bouncing through host B to get to host C, you're not going to eb able to do tunneling from C to B with that session
11:20 < notlarry> aThanks!
11:21 <@Mirage> Dagmar: I think the point he was looking for was not having to do the second tunnel.
11:23 <@Mirage> notlarry: I stick to my disclaimer, I haven't had to do that since I was at VU, so it's been years.. Slept a time or two since then, so I could be misremembering.
11:24 < notlarry> Ia tested, it works great
11:24 <@Dagmar> I'm a lazy bastard and just use ssh from cygwin when I'm tunneling X back to a Windows machine
11:33 <@Dagmar> Mainly it keeps me from having to wade into PuTTy's X options
11:34 <@Mirage> All 2-3 of them?  Pretty shallow wading
11:35 <@Dagmar> Ya gotta grab the mouse and go clicking on things
11:35 <@Dagmar> FUck that.  Too much work.
11:35 <@Mirage> If all you need to do if forward x11, Xming + PuTTY is a much smaller footprint and resource suck than cygwin
11:36 <@Dagmar> Except with cygwin I don't have to give a shit about any of it
11:36 <@Dagmar> It includes a port of virt-manager
11:37 <@Dagmar> I've got RAM, I've got cores, I've got disk, and I've got bandwidth
11:37 <@Dagmar> What I don't have is all day to fuck around with trying to cheapass the configuration
11:38 <@Dagmar> For something permanent, I might consider giving a damn
11:45 <@Dagmar> Also, things like virt-manager run more smoothly when they're actually running on the workstaton as opposed to being tunneled to a Windows box
11:46 <@eryc> i thought overcommit was enabled by default
11:46 <@Dagmar> Nope
11:46 <@Corydon76> Used to be.
11:46 <@eryc> solaris doesnt have it, so imaging shelling out to a process from a 32gb java vm
11:47 <@eryc> so instead i had java email a postfix route that executed a script
11:47 <@eryc> and yea pretty sure it was enabled by default in the past
11:49 <@eryc> or maybe not, i have a centos6 machine without that
11:49 <@Corydon76> Think Linux 2.2 and before.
11:49 <@eryc> my understanding was there's another feature in linux fork() that lazy allocates memory for the child process
11:50 <@Corydon76> Yep, it only actually allocates additional pages for the forked process when pages are written to.
11:51 <@Corydon76> Otherwise, the kernel just allows the two processes to read the same memory pages
11:51 <@eryc> right
11:53 <@Corydon76> Looks like overcommitting was still the default in 2012, although the options already existed in the kernel for turning it off.
11:54 <@Corydon76> It's probably distribution specific what the default is
11:55 <@Corydon76> Says these options were introduced in Linux 2.6
12:07 <@eryc> i'm pretty sure you can still fork smaller processes without that setting turned on
12:07 <@eryc> my guess is that systemd is forking a systemd to fork the process
12:08 <@Corydon76> It has to.  You have to fork() before you can exec()
12:08 <@eryc> i'm saying double fork action
12:09 <@eryc> a single fork shouldnt allocate any memory
12:09 <@Corydon76> A single fork can be denied on account of lack of memory.
12:09 <@eryc> i need evidence
12:10 <@Corydon76> Manpage for fork(2).  ENOMEM is a possible errno.
12:10 <@eryc> where is the code that raises ENOMEM
12:10 <@eryc> and where is the fork in systemd
12:11 <@Corydon76> Well, the raise of ENOMEM is going to be in the kernel, and it's likely that that's where overcommit policy comes into play
12:12 <@Corydon76> And yeah, it's possible that it does do a double-fork, so that it can do things like setsid()
12:13 <@Corydon76> And that could well mean that it hits the overcommit policy twice.
12:14 <@eryc> well i don't think it's getting a chance to do the 2nd fork because it runs out of memory on the first one when it starts making syscall's instead of doing an exec()
12:15 <@eryc> or it could be forking an entirely different systemd helper binary
12:15 <@Evilpig> https://www.wkrn.com/traffic/construction-complete-on-interstate-440-largest-project-in-tdot-history/
12:15 < PigBot> Construction complete on Interstate 440, largest project in TDOT history | WKRN News 2 (at www.wkrn.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8xw25po
12:15 <@Evilpig> can we blame this on covid-19?  because that's the only answer
12:15 <@Dagmar> I think they have memory problems
12:16 <@Dagmar> ...or maybe they outsourced 840 to someone else?
12:25 <@Mirage> My theory for road construction there around middle TN was that a project was only ever going to get completed once the company doing it got a new contract for something else and needed all the barrier/cones/etc because they didn't have storage for them all otherwise.
12:26 <@Dagmar> Well, there's an entirely separate company that provides the cones, barrels, and barriers
12:30 <@Mirage> On a separate note, wife thought it was "funny" (not in the haha way) that all these sports ppl, politicians, etc are getting COVID tested multiple times and fairly frequently, but no one at her hospital working directly with the COVID patients has been tested at all.
12:34 <@Mirage> https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08fy0xs/the-fascinating-history-of-the-f-word
12:34 < PigBot> The fascinating history of the f-word - BBC Reel (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybz9hvnj
12:34 <@Mirage> Other than the fingers at the beginning, it's all censored and beeped
12:39 <@Mirage> The following video/article "The English language .laws. you never knew you knew" is pretty interesting as well
12:50 <@Mirage> I like Trumps recent political ads because, IMO, by only attacking his opponent and saying nothing about himself is just highlighting the fact that he has almost no redeeming qualities at all.
12:50 <@Mirage> I doubt many other ppl see it that way, though.
12:51 <@Dagmar> People who are viewed as chattel don't need testing
12:51 <@Mirage> Most are probably like my step-father who firmly believes that Biden is a bumbling idiot and completely unfit to dress himself in the morning, let alone run a country.
12:51 <@Dagmar> They jsut need to shut up and work
12:52 <@Dagmar> Mirage: He's not wrong.  Unfortunately he's just less of a buffoon than Trump
12:53 <@Dagmar> Only politicians, CEOs, sports figures, and other "people who matter to large banks" actually need any testing
12:53 <@Dagmar> That's why they get regular tests
12:55 <@Mirage> I'm sure it's not just her hospital, but yesterday they announced that due to the increasing number of COVID patients that they were asking for nurses to volunteer to work at least one extra shift per pay period with a $1k bonus as incentive.
13:13 <@Corydon76> Eh, Biden's issues stem entirely from his stutter.  He's lucid when it comes to the written word, and that's where it really counts, since he would be an _executive_.
13:14 <@Corydon76> Trump's not lucid with either the spoken OR the written word.
13:15 <@Dolemite> Biden has TWO redeeming qualities that Trump does not.
13:15 <@Dolemite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viC2ycENAOI
13:15 <@Dagmar> I figure he can't be as bad as Trump, and would get more done than a bag of eels
13:15 <@Corydon76> Trump famously doesn't want to listen to briefings, to read briefings, and waffles constantly.
13:15 <@Dolemite> He can run, and he can drink water
13:15 < PigBot> YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7dyf7vm
13:15 <@Dolemite> Well, AT LEAST two
13:15 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: heh
13:16 <@Dagmar> I still wouldn't be terribly upset if a bag of eels won
13:16 <@Corydon76> But it's the same tactic in 2020 as in 2016.  Take Trump's worst qualities, and accuse his opponent of them.
13:17 <@Dagmar> I look at it this way
13:17 <@Corydon76> This is the only reason anybody thinks Hillary Clinton was involved in a pedophile ring:  because Trump was.
13:17 <@Dagmar> My fall schedule's pretty much all laid out
13:17 <@Dagmar> I don't have time to drive to DC and set fire to anyone
13:17 <@Dagmar> ...but I will clear some of my schedule if I absolutely have to
13:17 <@Corydon76> If Biden wants to pull the same trick, he should accuse Trump of stuttering like a schoolboy.
13:18 <@Corydon76> Or, more specifically, having his lackeys do it.
13:18 <@Dagmar> Fuck that
13:18 <@Dagmar> Call him a philanderer, a racist, and a rapist right to his face
13:18 <@Corydon76> Pick any random female still working in the White House and suggest that Trump's been sleeping with her?
13:19 <@Dagmar> Pick any of the women he's paid to keep silent
13:19 <@Corydon76> Yeah, but that risks it being labeled as old news.
13:19 <@Dolemite> Just release a bunch of deepfakes with him bottoming for the whole football team
13:20 <@Dagmar> Old news, but since he never served any time he can't claim he already paid his debt to society
13:20 <@Dagmar> The news media have absolutely destroyed careers over much, much less
13:20 <@Corydon76> We had a Tennessee legislator who was opposed to abortion who happened to get his mistress an abortion.  First election cycle, he denied it.  Reelection, he said it was old news.
13:20 <@Dolemite> Fuckin' mustard man
13:20 <@Dagmar> That's because they're pussies who want to be polite
13:20 <@Dagmar> We are _far_ past the point where being polite is warranted
13:21 <@Dagmar> There will be NO GREAT-GREAT GRANDCHILDREN FOR ANYONE
13:21 <@Dolemite> Used to be my wife's next door neighbor.    The story about threatening his ex wife with a gun wasn't fake news.
13:21 <@Dagmar> The time to fuck around and expect someone else will make these societal improvements has RUN OUT
13:22 <@Dagmar> THe only even remotely useful thing that's come out of this administration is that the fucking around allowed a whole lot of places to figure out their workers could WFH
13:22 <@Dagmar> ...so we can reduce the number of cars on the road all the time by a small amount.
13:22 <@Dagmar> We _must_ do considerably more than this
13:23 <@Dagmar> It's going to be completely undeniable by 2030, and by then it's probably just going to be entirely too late
13:24 <@Dagmar> Trump needs to go _now_, as in _this year_ and not four years from now or whenever he decides he's "ready" to leave office
13:25 <@Dagmar> THe fuckwit barely worries about the impact of his actions _tomorrow_ let alone 20-50 years from now
13:26 <@Dagmar> 2200 won't be some "Mad Max" scenario.  We'll just be another Mars.
13:53 <@Mirage> Hehe...wife just noticed that I modified her 'Bubly' cans yesterday
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14:31 <@Mirage> Dolemite: I wonder if Ann Sprutenberg moved to OK.. https://ktul.com/amp/news/local/vehicle-crashes-into-south-tulsa-home-06-25-2020
14:31 < PigBot> Truck crashes into south Tulsa home (at ktul.com) http://tinyurl.com/y6vycoz4
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15:14 <@Dagmar> I am disappoint
15:14 <@Dagmar> I thought we'd get to see the truck slam into the house
15:31 <@Mirage> Yeah.  I never actually saw Ann run over anything either, just the aftermath.
15:33 <@Mirage> Not sure how a neighbor obviously across the street could "lose control" badly enough to back into a house that fast.
15:52 <@Dagmar> Well, someone wound up going to the hospital, so they probably had some kind of medical "incident" while they were in the truck that caused the situation
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 26 00:00:37 2020