--- Log opened Tue Jun 16 00:00:22 2020
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06:34 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:35  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:35 <@Dolemite> Anything new on fire, today?
06:38 < aestetix> Would it be insensitive to make bets on how long the CHAZ lasts before it implodes in drama?
06:38 <@Dolemite> Wasn't it pretty much borne of drama?
06:38 < aestetix> yep
06:39 <@Dolemite> Yeah that whole thing just makes no sense to me.   Systemic racism is not cured by anti-capitalism.
06:40 < aestetix> The big issue I see is that nothing will satisfy the protesters
06:41 < aestetix> Even if that MN cop gets convicted of first degree murder
06:41 < aestetix> (which it seems could happen)
06:41 <@Dolemite> Well, the problem doesn't just lie within Minneapolis, which is the point of the protests all over the world.   I get that part.
06:41 < aestetix> sure
06:42 <@Dolemite> It has been brewing for pretty much all of my life
06:42 < aestetix> but my point is, I'm not sure there is a solution, because I'm not sure the protesters actually want anything to change
06:42 < aestetix> They like to be angry and shout. If their problems go away, then they have nothing to be angry and shout about anymore
06:43 <@Dolemite> The problem is that you've got the anarchists jumping onto the bandwagon and causing destruction.
06:43 < aestetix> That said, I would very much like to see the problems fixed
06:43 < aestetix> exactly
06:43 <@Dolemite> But that's the case with nearly every protest
06:45 <@Dolemite> And if I see one more stupid ass George Soros meme...
06:45 < aestetix> I just wish both sides realized that one side inflames the other
06:45 < aestetix> or maybe they do, and they get off on it
06:46 <@Dolemite> But returning to status quo inflames one side, so what choice do they have?
06:46 < aestetix> so basically things are going to be bad no matter what
06:47 <@Dolemite> You've got white people who don't understand that the system can be racist without they, themselves, doing anything actively racist.
06:47 <@Dolemite> Goes back to the old, "But I have black friends!" defense.   Yeah, you may, but if you don't call out injustice when you see it, you are complicit.   If you refuse to ever see it, you are complicit.
06:48 < aestetix> But if you call out injustice, you get involved
06:48 < aestetix> And a lot of people are exhausted and don't want to get involved in drama
06:48 <@Dolemite> And at one point, you just get so fucking tired of having to constantly look over your shoulder to see if you are being virtuous enough.
06:48 < aestetix> yep
06:48 < xray> And COVID is actually trying to kill us.
06:49 <@Dolemite> But if we stop testing, the numbers will go down!
06:49 < aestetix> Dolemite: that is literally true. It will just take a moment for all the people to die
06:49 < aestetix> but then it will go down
06:49 <@Dolemite> aestetix: Well that's what the Twit told me.
06:50 <@Dolemite> Twit in Chief
06:52 <@Evilpig> xray: but covid is a conspiracy to cover up the roll out of 5g
06:52 <@Evilpig> I read it on facebook, that's the internet and the internet doesn't lie
06:53 <@Dolemite> covid COMES from 5g!
06:53 <@Dolemite> It's how we know they're invading our communities with that evil radiation!
06:53 <@Evilpig> oh and the news on the tv said it was a bad virus killing people and they lie, so that makes what I saw on facebook double true
06:53 <@Dolemite> The anti-vaxx health coaches on NextDoor told me all about it!
06:58 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqKuBFoI9s
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07:15 < xray> I think the problem with conspiracy theorists is they don't have enough real threats in their lives. Most people don't have the luxury of time to engage in conspiracies when running in full panic form actual imminent death.
07:16 < xray> If you want a real conspiracy, life is trying to kill you all the time, everyday. Pay attention there is only one test with no make up exam.
07:25 <@Dolemite> https://twitter.com/TheGoodLiars/status/1272267353917665280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1272267353917665280&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fboingboing.net%2F2020%2F06%2F15%2Fslight-incline-very-scary.html
07:25 <@Dolemite> LOL
07:25 < PigBot> No Title (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybuzvody
07:28 <@Dolemite> Wow.   The Coronavirus really *is* racist.
07:29 <@Dolemite> CDC report shows that among the laboratory confirmed cases with ethnic data, 33% of positive cases are Hispanic, which only represents 18% of the US population.  22% were black (18% of US population).
07:30 <@Dolemite> No wonder so many white folks feel like it's a scam.
07:44 < aestetix> Dolemite: are you still doing homeoffice?
07:53 <@Dolemite> yep
07:53 <@Dolemite> just took doggos out
07:55 <@Mirage> I'm sure that a lot of the higher rates in minorities are self-inflicted either because of their culture or circumstance.  Hispanics here in my neighborhood have been having gatherings every weekend for the past 3 week.  I think that hispanics especially are also much more likely to have a higher number of ppl living in a household, especially the illegals and "recent" imigrants.  Hispanics also, generally speaking, make up a large segment of trade jobs whi
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08:05 <@Evilpig> agreed.  a few weeks after the shutdown started and I had to goto walmart for a couple of things I kept seeing families going to walmart without face coverings and together.
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08:06 <@Evilpig> you saw several middle aged white dudes like me moving from aisle to aisle avoiding people and then you'd see the se slow lumbering packs just talking to each other and stopping to greet others they appeared to know in the store
08:09 <@Dolemite> Shout out for Evilpig's hometown
08:09 <@Dolemite> https://boingboing.net/2020/06/15/tattoo-parlor-offers-free-sess.html
08:09 < PigBot> Tattoo parlor offers free sessions to cover up of racist symbols / Boing Boing (at boingboing.net) http://tinyurl.com/y778r6ho
08:23 <@Evilpig> yeah I saw that the other day
08:40 <@dc0de> happy morning?
08:51 <@Dolemite> Let's not go crazy, now
08:51 <@Dolemite> It's definitely morning, though
09:01 <@Mirage> https://www.instructables.com/id/Bird-Housed-Made-From-Election-Signs/
09:01 < PigBot> Bird Housed Made From Election Signs : 7 Steps (with Pictures) - Instructables (at www.instructables.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7tfudfj
09:02 <@Mirage> Good use for old signs, but w/o adding some weight to the bottom to stabilize them I don't know how much birds would like them.
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09:34 <@dc0de> https://babylonbee.com/news/black-sabbath-changes-name-to-person-of-color-sabbath
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09:37 <@Evilpig> I really need to get my usenet app moved to a dedicated vm.  it destroys my hosting server
09:45 <@Dolemite> I'm surprised you didn't do that long ago
09:56 <@Evilpig> I don't normally notice it unless it's working on something big.
10:04 < K`Tetch_> 07:38:35 «aestetix» Would it be insensitive to make bets on how long the CHAZ lasts before it implodes in drama? <-- from friends there, it's going great
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10:07 < K`Tetch_> and Evilpig - the one time i ventured into walmart the past 2 months, there was me with a mask, a efw black people with masks (often wrongly put on, or playing beard-guard) and every white guy/guyette acting like they were on the way to the NASCAR they're not welcome at any more
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10:11 <@Mirage> I have to bite my tongue every time I see some jackass wearing a mask improperly.  As you observed, it's almost always someone of a minority.
10:11 <@Corydon76_> lol, not here in rural Tennessee.
10:12 <@Corydon76_> The Big Lots employees were all wearing their masks with the blue side  facing their mouths.
10:12 < K`Tetch_> i went to chilis on the week resaturancts could open up. 1 waitress had no mask, one didn't cover their nose, one had it but moved it every time to speak - all white girls
10:12 < K`Tetch_> at least the ones in walmart were wearing one at all, unlike all the white folk
10:12 <@Corydon76_> And the Lowe's employees weren't wearing theirs covering their noses, because they claimed they couldn't breathe with it covering.
10:13 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: really?
10:13 < aestetix> Did they learn from Occupy?
10:13 < aestetix> I mean if they can make something like that last, power to them
10:13 < K`Tetch_> also, i just realised, we didn't have an emancipation proclemation celebration this year
10:14 <@Mirage> My experiences are from grocery stores and Home Depot.  I haven't been in Walmart since late March.
10:14 <@Dolemite> I was in Ingle's on Sunday to pick up some groceries.   I thought it was good that every employee I saw was wearing a face mask - including the Starbucks folks.   And then as I was leaving, I saw one of the Starbucks girls pull her mask down so she could hear a coworker better.   LOL   She wasn't speaking, she was leaning in trying to hear him say something.
10:14 <@Corydon76_> There's a lot of this problem where those in charge are only concerned about sourcing them, but having gotten the first clue about how to USE them properly.
10:14 <@Corydon76_> Err, haven't.
10:15 < aestetix> Mirage: I haven't been in a walmart in ten years :p
10:15 < aestetix> god that felt good to say
10:15 <@Corydon76_> Eh, I don't regularly go to Walmart, but I'll go if there's something I need that nobody else has.
10:16 < K`Tetch_> and you're in the US how much?
10:16 <@Corydon76_> For example, if I'm making Jello shots, they have far more variety of jello flavors than the grocery store
10:16 <@Evilpig> I've seen my share of people wearing masks wrong and weird masks too, the crown jewel was the day I saw the dude wearing a diaper on his face for a mask
10:16 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: haven't been in the US since october 2016
10:16 < K`Tetch_> I've not been in a tesco for 20 years, but since 17 of that has been spent in gorgia, 4300 miles from the nearest one its not saying much...
10:17 < aestetix> which means if biden wins, I will not have been in the US at all during trump :)
10:17 <@Mirage> Evilpig: that was probably just a fetich
10:17 <@Mirage> er, fetish
10:19 <@Corydon76_> aestetix: There's some talk about whether outrage over the polls will make Trump have a stroke before too long.
10:20 <@Corydon76_> Or a heart attack
10:20 < K`Tetch_> he already had one, didn't you see him at west point?
10:20 < aestetix> I mean.... I generally don't wish ill will on anyone, but I'm also really tired of seeing his name in the news
10:21 <@Corydon76_> I have no doubt that Tennessee will vote for him again, my vote notwithstanding
10:22  * K`Tetch_ is focusing on the GA house - friend is running as local rep
10:22 <@Mirage> Walmart has it's place, just like everywhere else.  They are generally better than more local/regional stores or carrying a better variety of stuff, as Corydon pointed out.  Like the local beer store for example, whenever I ask about something they don't have they normally say something to the effect of 'It wasn't selling very well, so we don't stock it normally, but can order it."
10:22 <@Corydon76_> But I found it funny that GEORGIA and TEXAS are both in contention this year.  That's the surest sign that Satan is in the market for a snowblower, and we need to look out for pig shit falling from the sky.
10:22 <@Dolemite> Yeah, especially with all of the current TV ads for people running for other offices jumping all over each other to say how much more they'd support Trump than their opponent.
10:23  * Dolemite clips Evilpig's wings
10:23 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: I wish more people would focus on the local level
10:23 < aestetix> you can make such an impact there
10:25 <@Corydon76_> Jesus.  Why the FUCK are tech companies still selling 10/100 switches?  Isn't Gigabit the minimum now?
10:25 <@Evilpig> I know someone that recently bought an 8 port 10/100 on purpose
10:26 <@Evilpig> but yeah gig should be hte min
10:26 <@Corydon76_> Why?
10:26 <@Evilpig> it was cheap
10:26 < xray> People think they are negotiating with the "authorities" on when and how to wear a mask. They do not realize that they are actually negotiating with the coronavirus which doesn't even know they exist, and if it did know it would say, "you don't need to wear a mask."
10:26 <@Corydon76_> One of the companies I buy cables from (because they're cheap) just advertised an 8 port 10/100 for $10.
10:27 <@Mirage> Depends on what you're using it for.   If you're just using it to connect multiple machines to a NAT router for internet and don't care about an intranet then gigabit is overkill.
10:28 <@dc0de> Mirage: 100mbps v gigabit for file xfer speeds is important if you are going to move any large files around between systems.
10:28 <@dc0de> For example, my photo files and videos... are huge.
10:28 <@Mirage> dc0de: "and don't care about an intranet "..
10:28 <@Corydon76_> Mirage: I would think that the reverse compatibility for slower speeds is starting to eat into the cost of what-the-fuck and completely-unnecessary.
10:28 <@dc0de> Mirage: but "don't care" v.s. "don't need?"
10:29 < xray> Monoprice 8 Port 10/100/1000 Mbps Desktop Gigabit Ethernet Switch with Support for Jumbo Frames
10:29 < xray> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10927
10:29 < PigBot> Monoprice 8 Port 10/100/1000 Mbps Desktop Gigabit Ethernet Switch with Support for Jumbo Frames - Monoprice.com (at www.monoprice.com) http://tinyurl.com/y88bkgn9
10:29 <@Mirage> think like the normal population that things computers and networks are magic, not like one of us.
10:29 < xray> Oh nuts. They are out of stock. They go on sale for just over $10 on occasion.
10:29 <@Corydon76_> xray: yeah, that company is selling both a 5-port and an 8-port 10/100 for $10.
10:29 <@dc0de> Mirage: I agree.. but if I recommend it in my circles, I'm going to have to support it too.
10:30 <@dc0de> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=23837
10:30 < PigBot> TP-LINK TL-SG1008D 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Gigabit Desktop Switch, 10Gbps Switching Capacity - 8 Ports - 8 x RJ-45 - 10/100/1000Base-T - Monoprice.com (at www.monoprice.com) http://tinyurl.com/yawexjwl
10:30 <@Mirage> What I don't get is why they still make/sell hubs vs all of them being switches
10:30 <@dc0de> I'd recommend that to someone... before a $10 10/100.
10:31 <@dc0de> because some of us, who know the difference, will use HUBS to sniff data.
10:31 <@Evilpig> Install a hub into someone else's network that you don't like and leave them to try and figure out why it's running like ass
10:31 <@dc0de> Evilpig: as long as there's less than 256 hosts in use, it should be "OK".
10:31 < xray> 100mb/s hubs are gold when it comes to sniffing.
10:31 <@dasunt> Should I pay more for an i5 laptop for motly busines us?
10:31 <@dc0de> xray: exactly
10:31 <@Evilpig> it'll still be more prone to collisions
10:32 <@Corydon76_> Similar to the 5000 mAh power banks... so small, they're just about useless.
10:32 <@dc0de> Evilpig: true, but CSMA-CD does that for you... and if your hub to host connection DUPLEX matches, you can run up to ~70% of total BW.
10:33 < xray> Evilpig: I put the hub between the target and it's network switch port.
10:33 <@Corydon76_> dc0de: just flood the switch with MAC addresses, and most of the cheap switches will turn into hubs.
10:33 < xray> It works similarly to a network tap in that instance.
10:34 < xray> Yes but kill network performacne
10:35 < xray> There is sniffing violently and sniffing to diagnose problems.
10:36 <@dc0de> Corydon76_: I agree you can kill the simple switches... which is why I won't use them... All of my switches are managable, including my two 8x ports
10:36 <@dc0de> and my 24port
10:37 < xray> They make gigabit passive taps but they cause the connection to fail to 100mb/s.
10:37 <@Corydon76_> dc0de: Yeah, I love having managed switches, but mainly for the ability to assign VLANs, for better network segmentation.
10:37 < xray> The last time I used a 100mb/s hub was to test security of an IoT application.
10:37 <@dc0de> xray: there are optical taps that can work up to 100G bonds
10:38 <@dc0de> Corydon76_: I'm about to trunk my downstairs switch to my office to move some of my systems to an IOT network.
10:38 < xray> Yes but only with fiber connections. I do not know of one that works on 1Gb/s copper.
10:38 <@Corydon76_> I love that my APs also support VLANs, so I can segment even the wireless traffic.
10:39 < xray> If you have a smart switch that supports port spanning it can also be used for sniffing without degrading performance. The downside is if the switch gets to busy it can drop packets.
10:40 <@dc0de> xray: using spans is the WORST idea evar! unless you have one with double the backplane, or the Span work is done on a dedicated set of hardware.
10:40 <@Corydon76_> Spanning or mirroring?
10:40 <@dc0de> yeah
10:40 < xray> I'm not sure if port spanning lets me inject packets. I have never tested it. I know I can inject packets with a hub.
10:40 <@dc0de> I strongly dislike spans...
10:40 <@dc0de> xray, a span is read only
10:40 <@dc0de> span/mirror
10:40 <@dc0de> same/same
10:40 <@dc0de> to me
10:40 < xray> dc0de: That is what I thought.
10:41  * dc0de is a CNX - Certified Network Expert (Token Ring, Ethernet, FDDI)
10:41 < xray> I tend to not use spans. I know a hub will always work. I wish they made 1GB/s hubs but I have never seen one.
10:42 <@Mirage> What, no ArcNet?!
10:42 < xray> I remember 16Mb/s token ring. It worked great. I also remember ArcNet, all 2Mb/s of it.
10:42 < xray> And NetBIOS and Apple Talk.
10:43 <@dc0de> xray: the biggest problems with spans that I've seen, is that once you set one up and provide data from it, the business/org doesn't want that to go away, and the span becomes a "production requirement" and the business/org doesn't want to pay for TAPS, which are the "right" solution to maintaining a highly performing network.
10:43 <@dc0de> xray: I remember the timeout of the Token Ring Token Holding Timer, and it's purpose.  9.6ms.
10:43 < xray> When I install a span the target is not notified.
10:43 <@dc0de> that's all the time you have to transmit your data and then pass the token.
10:44 <@Mirage> xray: I remember when we upgraded from 1mb to 2mb ArcNet along with moving from Novell Lite to 3.02(?)...we thought we were in heaven
10:44 < xray> I mostly have to do sniffing for diagnostics and security forensics.
10:45 < xray> Mirage: It was so much faster than 300 baud dialup.
10:45 <@Mirage> Later we went to 4mb..then finally to 10mb ethernet
10:45 <@dc0de> Novell, I loved Netware...
10:45 <@dc0de> it's security model was awesome
10:46 < xray> We thought 10Mb Ethernet on hubs was so much better until two Sun workstations saturated the network talking to each other and no one else could get a packet in edgewise.
10:48 < xray> I do not miss the days of pulling the "latest" network cable through our buildings. It seemed a new one came out every year or so and we never decommissioned the old ones so we had Heinz 57 networking.
10:48 < xray> And don't get me started on troubleshooting flaky AUI taps.
10:49 <@Dolemite> dammit, a Trump ad just played on GSN.   I hadn't seen a single political ad on there yet, which is why I usually leave it on for background.
10:50 <@dc0de> xray: try putting an IBM AS/400 on Token Ring, and bridging ethernet and token ring together?
10:53 < xray> For me it was integrating a System/36.
11:00 <@Mirage> The old Apple PhoneNet stuff was crazy, if anyone remembers it.   Used normal phone patch cords and was linked up similar to Thinnet with respect to requiring terminators at the ends of the chains.
11:03 <@Dolemite> Yep, I remember that.
11:04 <@Evilpig> https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/gatlinburg-skybridge-crack-trnd/index.html
11:04 < PigBot> The Gatlinburg SkyBridge was shut down after a tourist cracked the glass doing a baseball slide | CNN Travel (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycv8jfwb
11:05 <@Dolemite> Yep, some idiot did a baseball slide on it
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11:13 <@Mirage> I really find this hard to believe... https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/uk/waitrose-eggs-hatched-gbr-intl-scli/
11:13 < PigBot> Waitrose eggs hatch into ducklings after incubation - CNN (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybalt6g3
11:13 <@Evilpig> so did the company that sold them
11:29 <@Mirage> I'm guessing there's a league for these and it's not just an adult go-kart on massive steroids:  https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/snw/d/the-colony-formula-gp-gsxr750-powered/7110901661.html
11:30 < PigBot> Formula GP GSXR750 Powered Race Car - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by... (at dallas.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/y845bafb
11:30 < xray> Mirage: Any egg (duck or chicken) that has been fertilized can be incubated to get a chick.
11:30 < xray> Refrigeration keeps them from growing.
11:32 < xray> Chickens can lay eggs without being fertilized. I don't know if that is true for ducks.
11:34 <@Mirage> Obvously it is since the article claims that they _try_ to keep the drakes away from the hens.
11:35 < xray> It can happen with free range birds. You can always "candle" and egg to see if it has a chick inside before eating it.
11:35 <@Mirage> And as to the refrigeration, those had to be pretty damn fresh eggs that hadn't been refrigerated for very long for them to still be viable...that or they weren't kept that cold.
11:36 < xray> Refrigeration halts germination but doesn't terminate it. So a fertilized refrigerated egg can later be incubated and hatched.
11:36 < xray> Egg or chicken they both are good to eat.
11:36 < xray> Great, now I'm hungry.
11:38 < xray> Another fun fact, you can order chicks online (chicken, guinea hen, duck) and they will delivered live through US mail.
11:39 < xray> I was really surprised when I first heard it from someone who ordered guinea hens.
11:42 <@Mirage> xray: if you wanna stagger out hatchlings over a week or so, then yes, sticking them in a fridge that's not set too cold is a good option, but the longer they are stored the less likely they are still viable.  As I said, they had to have been pretty fresh...much moreso than I personally would expect eggs in the supermarket to be.
11:48 <@Mirage> This looks like an emergency room trip just waiting to happen.. https://tulsa.craigslist.org/snw/d/coweta-snap-on-custom-cart/7142599113.html
11:48 < PigBot> Snap-On Custom Cart - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner - vehicle... (at tulsa.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/ybdod73p
11:52 < xray> It has a wheelie bar so I'm guessing you only want to try riding it in the ER parking lot.
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12:01 <@Mirage> Apparently they call those "Bar Stool Racers"
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12:39 <@dc0de> xray: I used to raise quail from eggs, I would buy the eggs, candle them, move them to an incubator, and turn them twice a day by hand.
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12:40 <@dc0de> once they were hatched they had to have a heated brood pen, while they grow their feathers, and cleaning that shit every day is horrible.
12:40 <@dc0de> Finally, they get moved to an outdoor flight pen, 24'x8'x8', with an indoor roost attached.
12:40 <@dc0de> it was a chore.
12:41 < xray> Birds are stinky too.
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14:09 <@Mirage> There is a reason fowl and foul sound alike
15:19 < xray> LoL
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20:21 <@Evilpig> wtf, my router has rebooted twice now
20:28 <@Dagmar> It's those DCC SENDs man
20:31 <@Evilpig> Kernel panic - not syncing: softlockup: hung tasks
20:31 <@Evilpig> Rebooting in 60 seconds..
20:31 <@Evilpig> *** NMI Watchdog interrupt on Core 0x00 ***
20:31 <@Evilpig> *** Chip soft reset soon ***
20:31 <@Evilpig> and then it rebooted.  almost like it has too much load or somethign
20:31 <@Dagmar> That's no good
20:31 <@Dagmar> Mere load won't do that
20:32 <@Evilpig> I agree it shouldn't.  not sure what's going on.  watching the serial console for more clues
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20:38 <@Evilpig> there is a firmware update, I guess I should apply that 
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20:40 <@Dagmar> Id' say visually inspect the fans and check the Dashboard for SMART warnings
20:42 <@Evilpig> not sure I can run a smart test on the internal flash
20:44 <@Dagmar> Ooh...yeah that ain't hapepning
20:44 <@Dagmar> WEll, look on the bright side
20:44 <@Evilpig> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/comments/absjoo/repairing_a_failing_usb_drive_in_a_ubiquiti_unifi/
20:44 <@Dagmar> Either it's a one-time thing or it's ready to be chucked
20:45 <@Evilpig> apparently it's actually a usb flash drive in there.  so it could easily be failing.
20:45 <@Dagmar> Gross
20:49 <@Evilpig> at least it's a small one.  only 4g
20:49 <@Evilpig> root@USG:~# fdisk -l /dev/sda
20:49 <@Evilpig> Disk /dev/sda: 4009 MB, 4009754624 bytes
20:50 <@Evilpig> i'd be surprised if that was it though.  it doesn't write logs to disk, it writes them to a ram drive that gets trashed every reboot
--- Log closed Wed Jun 17 00:00:24 2020