--- Log opened Fri Jan 17 00:00:29 2020
--- Log closed Fri Jan 17 01:12:59 2020
--- Log opened Fri Jan 17 01:13:07 2020
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06:10 < aestetix> Evilpig: were they bad there too?
06:13 < aestetix> high salary in tech == overpriced vegan food, crazy haircuts, and virtue signalling on twitter
06:14 < aestetix> on the plus side, most of these salaries come from companies with VC money and no actual business model, so they will get flushed out in a few years
06:16 < aestetix> I have a friend from the bay area I ran into this summer.... and if you wanna know how nutty things are
06:16 < aestetix> She was going insane from twitter activism, and her therapist (a licensed therapist) actually encouraged her to take medical leave from her job to focus on twitter activism
06:17 < aestetix> which is the opposite of what a therapist is supposed to do
06:47 <@Evilpig> aestetix: I worked at the place where their coined that stupid practice of putting your pronouns on everything.  that should tell you everything you need to know about that culture
06:54 <@oddball> aestetix: more reason why I'm glad I never created an account over there.
07:12 < aestetix> oh god
07:12 < aestetix> the pronouns
07:21 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Why do you think that's the opposite of what a therapist is supposed to do?
07:22 <@Corydon76> Therapists are for the patient, to maximize their state of happiness, not to maximize the patients compatibility with the workforce.
07:25 < aestetix> Therapists are supposed to help the patient deal with personal issues and get better
07:25 < aestetix> And yes, if the working environment was bad, the therapist would be correct to tell her to quit
07:25 < aestetix> But the working environment was fine. The twitter activism was the issue.
07:25 < aestetix> And the therapist advised to quit the job and focus on twitter activism
07:26 < aestetix> Had the therapist advised to get off twitter and focus on normal work and getting healthy, I'd be all about that
07:40 <@Corydon76> I think you don't understand therapy.
07:41 <@Corydon76> If someone demonstrates a passion for something, and it's interrupting their workflow, then the patient is best to quit the job and focus on that passion, EVEN if it means less money in their pocket, EVEN if it means they're no longer able to afford the therapist.
07:41 <@Corydon76> Happiness, not productivity, is the goal.
07:42 < aestetix> I think you missed my point
07:42 < aestetix> Twitter is what is making her unhappy.
07:42 < aestetix> Not her job.
07:42 <@Corydon76> No, I understand your point.
07:43 < aestetix> And her twitter use isn't a passion. It's an obsession, and a very unhealthy one.
07:43 <@Corydon76> No, lack of satisfaction at her passion is what was making her unhappy
07:43 <@Corydon76> Right there is the judgment that therapists cannot impose from outside.
07:43 <@Corydon76> Therapy is not about imposing restraints from the outside world.
07:44 < aestetix> So advising someone to quit their job and pursue an obsession that is clearly causing them to go insane.... is good therapy?
07:44 <@Corydon76> It is about helping the patient come to realizations for their own path in life.
07:45 <@Corydon76> Again with imposing your judgment of the situation.
07:45 < aestetix> Ok, so if someone is drinking so much that they stop being able to function at work, is that also imposing judgement?
07:45 <@Corydon76> aestetix: the question is, how does the patient feel about that?
07:46 <@Corydon76> If the patient wants assistance to stop drinking, then the therapist would help them with that.
07:46 <@Corydon76> But if the patient feels like work is making them unhappy, and that is why they drink, then the therapist's job is to encourage them to quit that job.
07:47 < aestetix> But would the therapist suggest they quit their job so they can focus on drinking?
07:47 <@Corydon76> aestetix: it's possible.  I don't know of a scenario where that might be the case, but yes, it's possible
07:47 < aestetix> I think there is a line.
07:48 <@Corydon76> That's why you would fail the therapist's ethical guidelines
07:48 <@Corydon76> And there is a bit of a line.  The therapist cannot advise the patient to pursue something illegal.
07:49 < aestetix> So a therapist would within reason advise a patient to drink a gallon of vodka a day?
07:49 < aestetix> "you can do it!"
07:49 <@Corydon76> Can't advise the patient to go rob a bank or kill someone, and if death is involved, it is even the therapist's job to prevent it.
07:51 <@Corydon76> aestetix: I understand the reductio ad absurdum argument you're making.  But do you really think a therapist should advise someone to stick with their job, even if it makes them deeply unhappy?
07:51 < aestetix> no, of course not
07:52 <@Corydon76> You imposed your own judgment upon the situation.  The fact is, if the job was making this person unable to pursue activism on Twitter, then the right course of action is to quit the job and focus on the activism.
07:53 < aestetix> But the job was giving her balance. Twitter activism is what made her go nuts
07:53 <@Corydon76> It may be that the person eventually realizes that the activism is futile, and they should abandon it.  But that is the path of the patient, not a judgment to impose from outside.
07:53 <@Evilpig> I think you're a little off course there Corydon76.  A therapist should be guiding patients to making the best decisions for the health/life, just being a yes man to agree with whatever makes them happiest would be unethical.  Anyone could be a yes man and call themselves a therapist.  There has to be line taken between what they want to make them happy and what choices they should actually be making
07:53 < aestetix> And that's been more clear since she dived into activism, and has gotten worse
07:53 <@Corydon76> "worse"
07:53 <@Corydon76> What's worse?
07:54 < aestetix> She's horrible to be around. Can't hold down any job. Sleep issues because she's obsessively checking twitter on her phone. Constnatly getting upset at random things the alt-right posts
07:54 <@Corydon76> Evilpig: so much of the details of the person are unclear.  It sounds like that she was financially well off enough to be able to pursue this passion project.
07:55 < aestetix> Corydon76: that is not the case.
07:55 <@Corydon76> aestetix: sounds like she needs to hit the point where she comes to that realization.  Until she does...
07:56 < aestetix> Ok now there, I agree with you
07:56 < aestetix> Just like you can't force someone to give up drinking
07:56 <@Corydon76> Exactly
07:56 <@Corydon76> Now I think you understand why this was the right path for her.
07:56 < aestetix> absolutely not
07:57 < aestetix> I see where you're coming from, but in this case I disagre with you.
07:57 <@Corydon76> You can't impose wellness from outside.
07:57 < aestetix> No, but you can suggest things
07:57 < aestetix> And suggesting that you quit your job to use twitter more, when the issue is twitter, is a horrible idea
07:57 <@Corydon76> And if she refused the suggestions, then the hard lesson needed to be learned.
07:59 <@Corydon76> You have to hit rock bottom before you can make progresss on an issue.
07:59 < aestetix> Well I hope you're right
07:59 < aestetix> At the moment, I will not talk to her anymore
07:59 < aestetix> And a lot of our mutual friends won't either
08:00 <@Corydon76> That's a good way to get her closer to rock bottom.  The more people who are enabling her, the longer it will be for her.
08:04 < aestetix> Ok to make sure we're on the same page
08:04 < aestetix> If a guy had a drinking issue, and when he got drink he would beat his kids, no therapist would advise him to quit his job and focus on drinking, right?
08:07 <@Corydon76> If the beating of his kids was automatic, it would be the therapist's job to report the behavior, so the kids could be removed from his care until he no longer posed a danger to them.
08:07 < aestetix> ok good we're agreed
08:12 < aestetix> unrelated.... wow
08:12 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOjsT9dlr-s
08:12 < PigBot> CNN Hosts Most Shameful Debate Yet (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/w66rjpr
08:12 < aestetix> CNN is godawful
08:31 <@Evilpig> teamdctl and the new teaming setup can suck my balls
08:31 <@Evilpig> # ethtool team0
08:31 <@Evilpig> Settings for team0: Link detected: yes
08:31 <@Evilpig> that's it.  no speed, no anything else
08:31 <@Evilpig> at least with old bonds you could get the speed if the connection was lacp, etc
08:36 <@Evilpig> best you can get out of teamd that i can tell is a list of each of the ports in the group
08:36 <@Evilpig> # teamnl team0 ports 3: eno2: up 10000Mbit FD 2: eno1: up 10000Mbit FD 5: eno4: up 10000Mbit FD 4: eno3: up 10000Mbit FD
09:26 < aestetix> https://movieweb.com/pornhub-sued-deaf-man-closed-captioning/
09:26 < PigBot> Deaf Man Sues Pornhub for Lack of Closed Captioning in Videos (at movieweb.com) http://tinyurl.com/vbmokld
09:27 <@eryc> Evilpig: at my old co we never moved to teamd but it seemed interesting because it took one of the best features from solaris
09:27 <@eryc> wherein it pings the gateway from each interface
09:29 <@eryc> iirc solaris also pinged its own interfaces
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11:18 <@Evilpig> eryc: it has some nice benefits like independant ports and such but the tooling around it seems vacant
11:22 <@eryc> yea that's disappointing
11:22 <@Evilpig> my coworkers answers to why teaming instead of bonding, while both still using network manager, was teaming looks like the path that redhat wants to take for the future and it was working so we didn't put any more consideration into it
11:22 <@Evilpig> I pointed out firewall-duh and redhat's fickle future pathing
11:22 <@eryc> hah
11:23 <@Evilpig> so now i'm having to write some custom checks for nagios to try to monitor the status of our teams. :-/
11:23 <@eryc> i think in this case it's what is the roadmap for kernel support
11:23 <@Evilpig> it's there, yes, but the support tools aren't there now
11:23 <@eryc> nothing useful in /proc or /sys?
11:24 <@Evilpig> completely missing from /proc
11:24 <@eryc> that's fair, /proc is sort of deprecated
11:24 <@Evilpig> i'll root around in /sys a bit
11:24 <@eryc> yea take a look, the tooling usually always interfaces with /proc and /sys
11:28 <@eryc> it looks like this is the upstream https://github.com/jpirko/libteam
11:28 < PigBot> GitHub - jpirko/libteam: team netdevice library (at github.com) http://tinyurl.com/7xdjjgw
11:28 <@Evilpig> shit like nmcli -t -f type  will show the ports in this team as 802-3-ethernet but teamdctl team0 state view lists the runner as lcap
11:29 <@Evilpig> the teamdctl to get the running value just doesn't fuckin' work and that is irritating
11:31 <@Evilpig> and I know lacp is 802.3ad or whatever but some consistency here would be nice
11:32 <@eryc> after you gather your thoughts a bit you should email this jpirko guy who's in charge of libteam.org
11:33 <@eryc> ask him how to monitor
11:36 <@Evilpig> that's a good suggestion
11:37 <@Evilpig> it's really the little things like ethtool against a bond tells me the speed.  so if it's active-backup or lacp I get either the speed of a single nic or the speed of the combined interfaces
11:37 <@Evilpig> teaming... fuck you, find the interfaces in the team add them up and hope you're getting the right answer
11:37 <@Evilpig> you log on and see a bond of four 10g interfaces and it shows a speed of 30 you go wtf and start poking around
11:54 <@Evilpig> balls!
11:54 <@Evilpig> # cat /sys/class/net/*/speed
11:54 <@Evilpig> 10000
11:54 <@Evilpig> 10000
11:54 <@Evilpig> 10000
11:54 <@Evilpig> 10000
11:54 <@Evilpig> cat: /sys/class/net/lo/speed: Invalid argument
11:54 <@Evilpig> cat: /sys/class/net/team0/speed: Invalid argument
12:45 <@Evilpig> just saw on a tv show "ladies, gentlemen, non-binaries of the jury...."
12:50 < aestetix> uh
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13:34 <@dc0de> @wilpig - is there any decent copies of "Knives Out" that are available for viewing?
13:38 <@Evilpig> screener only
13:38 <@Evilpig> and it's totally watchable
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14:58 <@dc0de> Thanks Evilpig
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20:22 <@Evilpig> damn amd, damn debian.  damn ati.  fuckers
20:26 <@dasunt> I believe that Debian is good and you are evil.
20:26 <@dasunt> Note your handle.
20:30 <@Evilpig> the splitting of the amd drivers into a non-free not configured repo was a pain in the ass
20:30 <@Evilpig> had this system working and then I plugged in an hdmi connection and it just shit the bed because that driver was missing
20:30 <@Evilpig> once I got the right package installed it worked nicely, i'll give them that
20:51 <@dasunt> LOL.
20:52 <@dasunt> Is there a sourceforge mirror that's good?  The website is down.
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 18 00:00:31 2020