--- Log opened Thu Oct 17 00:00:10 2019
00:11 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
00:11 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Changing host]
00:11 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
00:14 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:43 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
00:43 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Changing host]
00:43 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
00:47 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
05:23 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
05:23 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Changing host]
05:23 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
05:27 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
06:16 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:18  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:18  * Dolemite brexits aestetix
06:19 < aestetix> Is that your way of saying "touch me in the morning and walk away"?
06:19 <@Dolemite> Leave the money on the coffee table
06:23 < aestetix> Do you accept Discover?
06:23 <@Dolemite> Cash based economy, only!
06:26 < aestetix> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/16/gitlab_employees_gagged/
06:26 < PigBot> Blood money is fine with us, says GitLab: Vetting non-evil customers is 'time consuming, potentially distracting' • The Register (at www.theregister.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/y3d5fc2j
06:26 < aestetix> I agree with Gitlab here, and am really annoyed by the sensationalist headline and crappy writing
06:27 < aestetix> "GitLab, a San Francisco-based provider of hosted git software, recently changed its company handbook to declare it won't ban potential customers on "moral/value grounds," and that employees should not discuss politics at work."
06:27 < aestetix> especially that last part
06:28 <@opticron> most of the political commentary from my coworkers is to the effect "wow, is everything more fucked than normal because it feels like it's more fucked than normal"
06:30 < aestetix> I have a friend who works at Facebook
06:30 < aestetix> and apparently it's nonstop politics discussion there
06:30 < aestetix> He's more on the conservative side, so he is basically silent while he listens to all this far left crap
06:31 < aestetix> Apparently facebook actually has "clubs" employees can start, and gives the clubs money to do events
06:33 < aestetix> Whereas.... I have no idea what my colleagues think about politics. Usually the office gossip is about tv shows or local events going on
06:34 <@Dolemite> We don't discuss politics at work, given that we're in a government job...   but on Facebook, boy howdy.
06:34 < aestetix> oh maybe they discuss politics on facebook
06:34 < aestetix> I dunno
06:41 <@Evilpig> We all know better than to discuss religion, politics or money at work.
06:41 <@Dolemite> Some of us do
06:41 <@Evilpig> let me quantify that as we all, being the folks I work with
06:42 <@Evilpig> the kid has come home from school talking nonsense about politics that she has no understanding of and we've had to talk to her about the things you just don't discuss like that
06:43 <@Dolemite> She asked for a Che t-shirt, yet?
06:43 <@Dolemite> Or would she rather have a MAGA hat?
06:43 <@Evilpig> nah, she came in talking about trump being a cheetoh and something else
06:43 <@Dolemite> But he IS a cheetoh!
06:43 <@Evilpig> typical stuff you'd expect to hear out of a 10yr old
06:44 <@Dolemite> And Mitch is a turtle!
06:45 <@Dolemite> You need to see if you can get Null to run for Congress, again.   I would donate just to get a "Null Congress" sign.
06:45 < aestetix> well sometimes it can get heated here
06:46 < aestetix> Example: in Spain, Catalonya tried to secede (barcelona), and Madrid (capital of spain) sent in troops and cracked down on it
06:46 <@Evilpig> time for some breakfast and it's always sunny
06:46 < aestetix> My company has an office in Madrid. And one of our employees comes from Barcelona
06:46 < aestetix> And he is very much pro independence
06:46 < aestetix> So yes, I've seen him get into heated arguments with the Madrid folks
06:47 < aestetix> Although there's no name-calling or any of the crap that comes from uh some Americans ;)
06:52 < aestetix> Well to me fair, Mitch does look like a turtle
06:52 <@Dolemite> Yertle the Turtle
06:53 < aestetix> Evilpig: is it normal for ten year olds to be discussing politics at school?
06:53 < aestetix> I think when I was ten the arguments were about stuff like who gets to be on the baseball team
06:54 <@Dolemite> Yeah, we never talked or cared about politics
06:55 <@Dolemite> Not until late high school
06:55 <@Dolemite> But everything has simply been amped up so high these days
06:55 <@Dolemite> And the kids are parroting what they hear at home from their parents
06:55 <@Evilpig> they are basically coming to school repeating what they are hearing at home
06:55 < aestetix> yeah, politics got big by like junior year high school
07:02 <@Dolemite> Oh, did you hear about Cummings?
07:02 < aestetix> yeah, sad news
07:03 <@Dolemite> That one surprised me
08:00 < aestetix> Dolemite: do you think the climate in the US would be better if Trump left office?
08:00 <@Dolemite> Are you talking about geophysical climate or political climate?
08:00 < aestetix> political
08:02 <@Dolemite> I think we'd have an initial moment of outrage from the very vocal minority that feels like they've been persecuted and it was all made up
08:02 <@Dolemite> But bouncing from extreme right ideology to extreme left ideology is not the answer
08:02 <@Dolemite> It really depends on what replaces Trump
08:02 < aestetix> yep
08:02 <@Dolemite> The parties have forgotten how to appeal to the middle ground
08:03 < aestetix> notice how many alt-right people today grew up in the soviet union
08:03 <@Dolemite> It's turned into College Football politics.   It's my team vs. yours, and there's no such thing as a tie.
08:04 < aestetix> I have one friend in particular like that. He grew up in the soviet union, has lived in the US (nyc area) for decades though.... and he's best buds with people like Milo
08:05 < aestetix> he became far-right as a result of growing up in a left wing dictatorship
08:57 <@Corydon76> We're never going to extreme left ideology.  Every Democrat in the White House since JFK has been a moderate.  Nixon was to the left of Clinton.
08:58 <@Dolemite> The problem is that everybody left of your position is considered "left"
08:58 <@Corydon76> I've heard some extreme leftists.  They're calling for an end to the capitalist system.  Absolutely none of the Democratic contenders have gone to that extreme.
08:58 <@Dolemite> People forget that there's a huge gap between wanting affordable healthcare and having the State run the entire healthcare system.
09:00 < aestetix> Dolemite: yep.
09:01 <@Corydon76> Limiting healthcare to 20% overhead was a huge benefit of Obamacare.  We'd be in worse shape if not for that provision.
09:01 < aestetix> I don't think anyone would say the US health care system is good. But there are a number of ways to fix it
09:02 <@Corydon76> You can get good results out of the US healthcare system.  But you HAVE to be willing to play the system, and many people feel like they're being dishonest when they do that.
09:02 <@Dolemite> I have idiots on my FB feed from high school that constantly bitched about the requirement to buy health insurance when Obamacare came out...    but before that they complained that they couldn't afford to go to the doctor because they didn't have health insurance...
09:02 <@Dolemite> If you truly can't afford it, it's subsidized
09:02 < aestetix> Corydon76: the US health care system is pretty awful though
09:02 < aestetix> Especially when your health insurance company lies to you on the phone
09:03 <@Corydon76> aestetix: it is a convoluted mess, which is why you have to be willing to play the system.
09:03 < aestetix> Or they decide to deny procedures you need, or they contest the doctor's advise, etc
09:03 < aestetix> Playing that system is basically a full time job
09:04 <@Corydon76> I've been denied before, and the health insurance company told me what was wrong.  It was all confusing paperwork.  I communicted the problem with the doctor's office, they fixed the paperwork, and I got an approval.
09:04 < aestetix> Did that include waiting for an hour on hold on the phone to talk with the insurance company, etc?
09:04 <@Corydon76> But the reason for the paperwork is so they don't get sued.
09:04 < aestetix> Lawsuit culture is another big issue that's killing the US
09:05 <@Corydon76> I don't remember how many times I called, or how many departments I navigated through.
09:05 < aestetix> Exactly.
09:05 <@Corydon76> But I eventually got through to someone who knew what they were talking about, and could help me fix the underlying issue.
09:06 <@Corydon76> And yes, they rely upon the convoluted mess to save them money.
09:06 < aestetix> But that's hours of wasted time and lots of stress.
09:06 < aestetix> Let's say you're a single mom working two jobs and trying to figure out how to get your kid an operation he needs
09:06 <@Corydon76> I don't disagree.
09:07 < aestetix> oh ok
09:08 <@Corydon76> But it was eye-opening at open enrollment this year, when a coworker let slip that he's playing the system exactly the same way as I am, and the HR person agreed that it was the right approach.
09:08 < aestetix> yep
09:09 < aestetix> open enrollment.... I usually bring that up when people say capitalism is the reason US health care is so bad
09:09 < aestetix> what a horrible concept
09:09 < aestetix> and a bad name
09:09 <@Corydon76> It makes sense if you understand the purpose is to ensure that people have the forethought to seek insurance when they don't need it.
09:10 <@Corydon76> Because paying for insurance when you don't need it is EXACTLY what keeps the price down.
09:10 < aestetix> That's the same logic behind charging co-pays, to make sure people don't abuse the system
09:10 < aestetix> I think the logic is bullshit
09:11 <@Corydon76> If the only people seeking home insurance were those whose houses were already on fire, the price would be sky high.
09:11 <@Corydon76> You have to buy BEFORE you are in crisis.
09:11 <@Dolemite> The lab is forcing all of us into one plan - it's a Healthcare Spending Account instead of traditional health insurance.  High deductibles but a lower maximum out of pocket.
09:12 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: for a couple years, I had a plan where the deductible was $4,000, but so was the maximum out of pocket.  So I paid the first $4k, and then health insurance paid everything else.
09:13 <@Corydon76> When you can contribute $3600 a year to an HSA, that gap isn't so bad.
09:13 <@Dolemite> We've got 2K/person or 5K/family as the deductible, but I think the out of pocket max is 10k/family
09:14 <@Corydon76> That plan unfortunately is long gone.  Now my deductible is $4600, and my max OOP is something like $6350.
09:14 <@Dolemite> But at least any unspent HSA money rolls over, can be invested, and also follows you when you leave
09:15 <@Corydon76> But if I can avoid getting sick for the first 3 months of the year, my method of playing the system will exhaust that $4600.
09:15 <@Dolemite> Oh, and can be left to your dependents in your will
09:16 <@Corydon76> Our HSA requires the first $1k to be cash.  The rest can be invested.
09:16 <@Dolemite> Yeah, we have to keep a minimum amount in ours, too
09:16 <@Corydon76> But if you deplete your HSA to below $1k, they'll immediately sell your investments to get back to $1k cash
09:23 <@Corydon76> Looks like I'll have my appointment in March to pay for entirely from HSA.  If I can avoid getting sick from January through May, I'll have 100% coverage for the rest of the year.
09:25 <@Mirage> 2 days working on trying to figure out why something wasn't working right on a migration using my account and finally just now decided to check to make sure the uid's matched...and of course they didn't.  Corrected uid, everything works perfect.   FML
09:26  * Mirage beats head on desk
09:33 <@Mirage> Some fucking ins company in TN keeps calling me asking for "Terry".  This has been happening 1-2 days a week 4-5 times each of those days. I have stressed to them that there is no "Terry" here, nor has there been a "Terry" with this number for at least the last ~15 years because I've had it 11 and before that it was Jeff Sublett's number.  Yesterday the lady claimed she would personally take care of removing that number from their records.  Today I start ge
09:33 <@Dolemite> How in the world did you get Sublett's old number?
09:34 <@Mirage> He took the oncall phone and gave me his when I moved up from the NOC
09:35 <@Dolemite> I thought you had the same number you've had since you were fixing laser printers for a living?
09:35 <@Mirage> no
09:35 <@Dolemite> Heh, wow, ok.   I never realized the change, then.
09:36 <@Mirage> I dropped that phone when VU made us take over the ones they issued us
09:36 <@Mirage> Which was 2010, i think
09:43 <@Dolemite> Still the 6955 number?
09:43 <@Mirage> yeah.
09:45 <@Mirage> The phone I had with Laser Plus was paid for by them, so I lost that when I left and had gotten a Cricket phone.  Got rid of that when I got the phone from VU
09:46 <@Dolemite> Ah, ok.   I just didn't remember that far back.   I'm getting old, you know.
09:47 <@Mirage> yeah...every day a bit more
09:48 <@Mirage> Apparently I am too to miss something as simple as matching UIDs between systems.
10:23 <@Dagmar> Lucky you
10:23 <@Dagmar> Not like I really cared, but with EAI was the first time I'd even seen a stipend
10:48 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njboptslddfsijog] has joined #se2600
11:39 <@Mirage> Dagmar: If we'd gotten to stay with EAI that one year they had us working over there then Chad/Steve were going to get our phones taken care of or give us the allowance and get our salaries adjusted (supposedly).  Since we didn't wind up actualy being absorbed and had to go back it ITS that never came about.
11:44 <@Dagmar> I think Chad got us the stipend actually
11:45 <@Dagmar> ...but ITS can go f**k itself
11:45 <@Mirage> He may have, but I didn't think so.
11:45 <@Dagmar> That bit where they publicly congratulated Whatsisface for building out the new PR webserver... christ
11:46 <@Dagmar> I probably shoudl have just bounced out of that all-staff meeting right there
11:46 <@Evilpig> ITS doesn't have to go fuck itself, they're imploding
11:46 <@Evilpig> they have two linux/storage admins now.  that's it
11:47 <@Dagmar> Well, now that they've given everything away to cloud hosting providers, I get the feeling it's mainly middle management and nothing below
11:47 <@Evilpig> they're pulling back from the cloud, the accountants finally realized that they should have done more research on that
11:47 <@Dagmar> lol
11:47 <@Dagmar> A shame they didn't have anyone on hand _telling_ them these things
11:48 <@Dagmar> Like, the guy with "cloud" in his damn title
11:48 <@Evilpig> their stupidity worked out for us.  we picked up one of their folks for our group first of last week
11:49 <@Dagmar> twainwek: The place is apparently kind of imploding now.  Apparently it turns out that if you run most of the experienced staff off, and then start switching everything to cloud providers on the say so of the dregs that remains, you just spend a ton of money to get very little done
11:49 <@Dagmar> @#$@#$
11:54 < xray> That is pretty much what happens every time IT services are outsourced. Flexibility and service level decline and costs go up.
11:54 < xray> I have seen very few cases where outsourcing was successful.
11:55 <@Dolemite> We had a huge surge of researchers wanting to use cloud services...   then they started realizing how much it cost them compared to running on premise...   some of the really well funded groups are still at it, while others have come back onsite.
11:58 <@Dagmar> No because we prefer to stick with websites that deal in facts
11:58 <@Dagmar> @#$@#$
11:59 <@Dagmar> Helenah: Why not
11:59 <@Dagmar> #@$%#$%
11:59 <@Dagmar> It's getting about time to replace this keyboard
11:59 <@Mirage> Anyone who's ever taken the Azure training should *immediately* decide it's expensive and hell simply based on how much MS drills into having to have a credit card on file to do anything beside the most basic shit.
12:00 <@Dolemite> Well cloud services can be very good
12:00 <@Dolemite> But you pay for that quality
12:09 <@Dagmar> yeah but you also _always_ pay for the overhead
12:10 <@Dagmar> At Vandy's size and scale, clearly they could afford to buy 24- and 48-core boxes to run stuff on, and that's where the economy of scale starts happening
12:10 <@Dagmar> They just couldn't be bothered to retain the staff who were professional enough to run the things properly
12:11 <@Dagmar> SEriously this RH URL is *250* characters long
12:11 <@Dagmar> what the hell
12:11 <@Dagmar> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/html/configuring_and_managing_networking/using-and-configuring-firewalls_configuring-and-managing-networking#configuring-ip-address-masquerading_using-and-configuring-firewalls
12:12 < PigBot> Chapter 15. Using and configuring firewalls Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 | Red Hat Customer Portal (at access.redhat.com) http://tinyurl.com/y6nsdfwg
12:12 < aestetix> Dagmar: maybe it was written by a java developer
12:12 <@Dagmar> who do they think they are?  Amazon?
12:27 <@Dagmar> The damn birds are talking to my lunch in the microwave.  *sigh*
12:27 <@Dagmar> It's a bowl of freakin' soup burbling around
12:31 < aestetix> https://www.facebook.com/zuck/videos/10109815371842941/
12:31 < PigBot> Mark Zuckerberg - Live from Georgetown -- Standing For Voice and Free Expression. | Facebook (at www.facebook.com) http://tinyurl.com/y238h6kd
12:32 <@Dagmar> hahahah
12:33 <@Dagmar> Amazing how the tone changes once someone starts talking about government-mandated backdoors
12:37 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CEB6C1E4D829B7B033D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #se2600
12:42 -!- Mirage [~mirage@ra.thehippo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
12:52 -!- Mirage [~mirage@lab.thehippo.net] has joined #se2600
12:52 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Mirage] by ChanServ
13:24 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CEB6C1E4D829B7B033D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
13:32 -!- Mirage_ [mirage@raw.thehippo.net] has joined #se2600
13:32 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Mirage_] by ChanServ
13:32 <@Mirage_> new phone is bugging me to install Android 10...should I?
13:34 -!- Mirage [~mirage@lab.thehippo.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
13:35 -!- Mirage_ is now known as Mirage
13:38 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CEB6C1E4D829B7B033D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #se2600
14:01 <@Evilpig> my nexus 6p stopped with 8 or 9
15:14 -!- rpifan_ [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CB64B507271080B7A6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #se2600
15:17 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CEB6C1E4D829B7B033D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
15:40 <@brimstone> the lineageOS of 9 is better than the pixelOS of 10
15:42 < rpifan_> i got a special hacked lineagerom for my device
15:42 < rpifan_> that hasnt been updated since the beta
15:42 -!- rpifan_ is now known as rpifa
15:42 -!- rpifa is now known as rpifan
20:11 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300D2671E8CB64B507271080B7A6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:35 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
21:36 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
--- Log closed Fri Oct 18 00:00:11 2019