--- Log opened Thu May 16 00:00:16 2019
03:45 < aestetix> Evilpig: question for you.... do you know much about the rasperry pi plex setup?
03:45 < aestetix> wondering how effective it is, and whether the rasp has enough cpu to process plex
03:45 < aestetix> especially on a larger file size
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06:52 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:58  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:59 <@Shadow404> you two are inseperable
07:03 <@Dolemite> Kinda like you and your ponytail buttplug, Shadow404.
07:03 <@Shadow404> Hey, whatever floats your boat...
07:05 <@Shadow404> Dolemite: and you don't have to be defensive about your love with aestetix...we dont judge. I mean we do, but we accept it.
07:11 <@Evilpig> aestetix: it wouldn't do well because it needs some cpu power for transcoding tasks
07:12 <@Evilpig> if you were just doing direct streams it might be okay up to a point, but you're gonna hit limitations on the usb bandwidth for pulling files from your source
07:12 <@Shadow404> Evilpig: whats the throughput of the PCI bus on PI? Higher or lower than usb3.0?
07:13 <@Evilpig> not sure on the new ones but I'd swear the original ones were only like 10MB
07:13 <@Shadow404> yeah, so theres the bottleneck in itself
07:13 <@Evilpig> I think the originals were limited to the USB1.1 bus speed
07:14 <@Evilpig> I've seen pi's used as plex clients without much issue
07:15 <@Shadow404> using what interface? ethernet?
07:15 <@Dolemite> Most recent PI versions are USB3 speed
07:16 <@Shadow404> nice
07:16 <@Shadow404> what do the most recent Pi's go for?
07:16 <@Dolemite> $35ish
07:17 <@Shadow404> not bad...especially when you can do wifi. How are the wifi adapters at doing packet sniffing?
07:17 <@Dolemite> I used a $20 wireless pi to run the pinewood derby - it acted as an AP for an airgap network, and ran a web based app for managing the race
07:17 <@brimstone> xray: how ARE the wifi adapters at doing packet sniffing?
07:18 <@Shadow404> brimstone: guessing he has exp in that realm?
07:18 <@Shadow404> i was thinking about modifying my backpack to carry a pi for just that and use the second port on my backup battery to power the PI
07:18 <@Shadow404> and build a simple waterproof switch near the top pocket
07:19 <@brimstone> Shadow404: he's done a bunch of research
07:20 <@Shadow404> This could be a fun project.
07:20 <@brimstone> something like you need usb3 to use a 4x4x4 adapter, but those don't exist with a usb interface, so you have to settle for a 4x4x3 adapter, but you still need usb3?
07:24 < aestetix> hmmm
07:24 < aestetix> is there any way to make plex also read stuff locally?
07:24 < aestetix> as opposed to over a network
07:25 <@Dolemite> Sort of
07:25 <@Dolemite> You can sync content to your local client device and then tell it to go offline
07:25 <@Dolemite> But as for mounting a folder full of content, no.   Kodi is better suited for that.
07:27 <@Shadow404> what would be the best battery powered development board for packet sniffing at this point? Arduino, PI or other?
07:28 <@Dolemite> Pi has the best linux support
07:28 <@Shadow404> hrmm, that could make things easier
07:28 <@Shadow404> probably need to wait for xray at this point ot chime in per brimstone
07:28 <@brimstone> go with something supported by rasiban or armbian: https://www.armbian.com/download/
07:28 < PigBot> Download – Armbian (at www.armbian.com) http://tinyurl.com/z6qvosm
07:33 <@Shadow404> good god there are alot of supported boards
07:33 <@brimstone> options!
07:33 <@Shadow404> i come from the arduino world, so which PI would be best for my application?
07:33 <@brimstone> some probably have multiple cores and usb3
07:33 <@brimstone> what's your application, just warstumbling?
07:35 <@Shadow404> probably that with storage capability for packet collection
07:36 < aestetix> Shadow404: do you like sniffing packets?
07:36 <@Shadow404> if i could do dual wifi adapters so i could leave one adapter in listening mode and the other adapter open to ssh so i could control the device from my phone shell
07:36 <@Shadow404> aestetix: only the wife's
07:37 <@Shadow404> :)
07:51 <@Shadow404> WOOT: https://medium.com/@aallan/adding-a-second-wireless-adaptor-to-a-raspberry-pi-for-network-monitoring-c37d7db7a9bd
07:51 < PigBot> Adding a Second Wireless Adaptor to a Raspberry Pi for Network Monitoring (at medium.com) http://tinyurl.com/yyoulsyx
07:51 <@Shadow404> ez peazy
07:52 <@Shadow404> and only $10 an adapter
07:56 <@brimstone> Shadow404: i'd go with not a pi, that has onboard wifi, and use a usb3 wifi adapter and usb3 drive for storage
07:56 <@brimstone> then use the onboard wifi for your C2, and the usb3 adapter for the actual capture
08:00 <@Shadow404> brimstone: why not use a memory card slot for storage and save a usb port for another adapter?
08:01 <@brimstone> sure, if the board supports it
08:01 <@brimstone> get a class 10 card
08:01 <@brimstone> you can get a 128GB class 10 sandisk for $20
08:02 <@brimstone> should be enough for one trip out and about
08:06 <@Shadow404> ok
08:17 <@brimstone> Shadow404: looks like the rock64 fits your requirements
08:17 <@brimstone> our requirements?
08:18 <@brimstone> you'll need a Type H 3.5mm OD/1.35mm ID barrel ‘coaxial’ to USBA adapter to use with your battery though
08:18 < xray> or an Atomic Pi
08:18 < xray> https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi
08:18 < PigBot>  Atomic Pi – Digital Loggers Direct  (at dlidirect.com) http://tinyurl.com/y3pmlcq4
08:19 < xray> I noticed the price of the Atomic Pi went up $3.
08:19 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: you seen this?  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9775360/
08:19 < PigBot> Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2019) - IMDb (at www.imdb.com) http://tinyurl.com/y6feeo5r
08:19 <@brimstone> Evilpig: i saw that
08:19 <@brimstone> what is that
08:19 <@brimstone> TMNT is DC?
08:20 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I noticed it in newsgroups last night
08:20 <@Dolemite> I'm afraid to even think of watching it
08:20 <@Evilpig> I'm about to watch it
08:21 <@Evilpig> the dc animation group has been pretty solid the last few years
08:24 <@Shadow404> xray: brimstone: thx
08:40 <@brimstone> xray: which usb adapter do you suggest for warstumbling/narknet?
08:43 <@Shadow404> This is the one the site recommended
08:43 <@Shadow404> https://www.amazon.com/Connecting-Wireless-Adapter-150Mbps-Raspberry/dp/B073J3HXZH
08:43 < PigBot> Amazon.com: Raspberry Pi Pi 2 Pi 3 USB Wireless Adapter Mideatek RT5370N with 2 dBi Antenna 802.11 n g b USB 2.0 Support Windows Linux Mac: Beauty (at www.amazon.com)
08:45 < xray> I recently picked a new adapter but I haven't been able to test it yet. As far as I can tell from everything I have read it should be awesome. Give me a minute to find the part number.
08:46 <@brimstone> i wonder if it's a RTL8812AU
08:49 < xray> It is the RTL8814AU chip set which gives you 802.11 AC and 4x4:3.
08:50 < xray> Alfa AC1900 WiFi Adapter
08:50 < xray> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZD7Z76
08:50 < PigBot> Amazon.com: Alfa AC1900 WiFi Adapter - 1900 Mbps 802.11ac Long-Range Dual Band USB 3.0 Wi-Fi Network Adapter w/4x 5dBi External Dual-Band Antennas: Computers & Accessories (at www.amazon.com)
08:51 < xray> the best is a 4x4:4 adapter but you can only get those in a mPCIE card.
08:52 < xray> To get full bandwidth you will need a USB 3.0 adapter.
08:53 < xray> I mean your computer will need to have a USB 3.0 port.
08:54 <@brimstone> herm, it's a bit bigger, but http://www.orangepi.org/Orange%20Pi%20RK3399/ has a mpcie slot on the bottom
08:54 < PigBot> Orange Pi RK3399 - Orangepi (at www.orangepi.org) http://tinyurl.com/y8rnn6zo
08:54 <@Shadow404> is that a requirement for monitor mode applications?
08:54 <@Shadow404> full bandwidth on a 3.0 i mean?
08:55 < xray> I recently saw a tech note that not all mPCIE ports are the same.
08:55 <@brimstone> xray: so i hear
08:56 < xray> Shadow404: Yes. To be able to do the full bandwidth of the device in monitor mode you will need to have USB 3.0
08:56 < xray> Some access points can handle multiple clients at full bandwidth.
08:57 <@Shadow404> good point
08:57 <@Shadow404> ok
08:57 < xray> So you can still saturate your receivers bandwidth and lose traffic if you are trying to listen to all the traffic from a really busy AP.
08:58 < xray> In that case, filter for traffic from a single client.
08:59 < xray> I came at this from a SIGiNT perspective. What if I want to capture all traffic from multiple APs in a given local.
09:00 < xray> And I want to do real time analysis as well as full pcap for offline analysis.
09:00 < xray> What is your application?
09:01 <@Shadow404> will the Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (B Plus) work for my application. (backpack via backup battery power pack, one adapter in monitor mode for packet collection, another adapter in ssh server mode so i can control from smartphone ssh client, and either usb or memory card for storage)
09:02 <@Shadow404> idea is to hide the antennas and hardware in a backpack i can have on my back or set down next to me and ssh into the box on the phone and not draw any attention
09:06 <@Shadow404> gah, only has 2.0usb, nm
09:12 < xray> As you pointed out the RPi is only USB 2.0 so it can be a problem depending on the AP and the number of clients.
09:12 < xray> You may drop some traffic.
09:13 < xray> It depends on what it is you are trying to do. If you are looking for people doing stupid. It will work. If you are doing SIGINT it will probably not meet your requirements.
09:14 < xray> Bear in mind that you are in a legal gray area if you intercept WiFi traffic.
09:14 <@Shadow404> for the cost, rather have the hardware needed for more complex stuff as i work my way up to that
09:14 <@Shadow404> ratehr than having to buy another board
09:14 <@Shadow404> atomic pi seems to be sold out
09:15 < xray> It is sold out from the vendor but some distributors still have them in stock.
09:16 < xray> I take that back. It is out of stock every where
09:16 < xray> I hope the vendor makes some more.
09:17 <@Shadow404> if i could of encapsulated that board easily, that would of worked perfectly
09:17 < xray> As I recall you are doing this for work.
09:17 <@Shadow404> both, work and personal
09:18 <@Shadow404> been asked to build a simple survey rig that i can carry around to do continual scans
09:18 < xray> It is a legal risk to do this. That is why I have stopped doing demos of it on WiFi networks in the wild.
09:19 < xray> If you are doing it on a work network with their permission it can still get dicy.
09:19 <@Shadow404> noted
09:19 < xray> If someone complains you can get hit with Federal wiretap charges even if work authorized it.
09:21 < xray> It used to be legal but due to the Google WiFi case and conflicting rulings of two Federal judges and SCOTUS' refusal to hear the case, it is now in limbo.
09:22 < xray> The way I look at it, if Googles team of lawyers lost in a court battle over this, I stand no chance.
09:23 < xray> If I was authorized by my employer to do this on their network then their legal department is on the hook and not me.
09:25 < xray> With that said. It is not possible to detect you are doing a passive intercept unless they are within a few feet of you with detection equipment. The possibility of this is essentially zero.
09:26 <@Shadow404> and even then, your holding a smartphone with a wifi adapter as well
09:27 < xray> The best rule of thumb is don't talk about what you are doing to anyone. The first rule of SIGINT is: SIGINT?!? I have no idea what you are talking about and I don't answer questions.
09:28 < xray> If you must say something (remember you have a right to remain silent and I highly recommend you do) The actual verbiage is "I can neither confirm not deny".
09:29 < xray> As an example. Does your ship have nuclear weapons on board. "I can neither confirm nor deny we have nuclear weapons on board at this time".
09:31 < xray> It sounds like a double negative but that is the official response.
10:08 <@Corydon76> My understanding on work networks is that the workplace must post (and preferably get every employee to sign) a statement that all communications within the building/network/etc are not considered private and may be monitored at any time.  This makes the employer a legal party to any communication, which makes it not an illegal wiretap.
10:09 <@Dolemite> Only in states that have 1-party notification laws.   Any that require both parties to be aware of recording would be an exception to that.
10:09 <@Corydon76> Barring that disclosure/permission, the question comes down to whether a court believes a particular communication met the standard for 'reasonable expectation of privacy'
10:10 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: only when an outside party was involved.  Hence why many telemarketers use "this call may be monitored and/or recorded"
10:10 <@Dolemite> That counts as notification
10:12 <@Corydon76> Fun legal stuff.  Now, back to what I was doing before, predicting sales a year in advance.
10:13 < xray> It all hinges on a ruling by the FCC that listening to/receiving wireless communication that is unprotected (legally) or unencrypted is fair game and an exclusion to the Wiretap Act. This is has been standing case law for decades. WiFi is an unprotected wireless service. If someone using it doesn't want others to hear their traffic they must encryp
10:13 < xray> t it. Failure to encrypt the traffic gives them not right to privacy.
10:14 <@Shadow404> could simple wep be considered encryption?
10:15 <@Dolemite> Roe v Wade has been standing case law for 46 years
10:15 <@Corydon76> My understanding is that only applies to federal legal status.  You still have to deal with state legal status.
10:15 < xray> yes. wep counts
10:15 <@Corydon76> Federal legal status only trumps state legal status if the communication crosses state lines
10:16 < xray> yes sort of. Federal law trumps state law. This has been the case with the FCC Wiretap exception.
10:16 < xray> Which all radio signals do. They go to infinity.
10:16 <@Corydon76> Yeah, but see the Google case.  Because the Wifi networks didn't cross state lines, state wiretap law applies.
10:17 < xray> People wanted to sue Google for Wiretap when their street mapping vehicles intercepted WiFi traffic. The location of APs is used as an alternate to GPS location.
10:17 < xray> Actually in the Google case it was a federal issue and one fed judge overturned decades of case law.
10:17 <@Corydon76> Location was fine, if Google hadn't captured wireless traffic.
10:18 < xray> He said public broadcast meant "broadcast by the public" as opposed to the traditional understanding of "broadcast in public".
10:19 <@Corydon76> Which, they admitted they did.  I have to say that from a legal perspective, Google admitting that they captured wireless traffic was STUPID.
10:19 < xray> The idea is that I can not be held responsible for hearing a conversation of the person infront of me in the grocery checkout.
10:19 < xray> I agree they should have said nothing.
10:20 < xray> another fed judge in a similar case at the same time ruled in the opposite direction, upholding traditional case law.
10:21 < xray> This means it is up to the district you live in and how the prosecutor is feeling that day.
10:21 < xray> You could end up being prosecuted.
10:22 < xray> Now that there is federal case law to cite states may choose to go after you as well.
10:22 < xray> Another grey area is attaching to an open AP without expressed permission.
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10:24 < xray> It is a crap shoot and you can be hit with digital trespass up to violation of the federal CFAA.
10:25 < xray> In the end the FCC ruling was the best one (IMNSHO). If you want it to be secure, encrypt it.
10:25 < xray> Otherwise it is like talking in a public place.
10:26 < xray> I really wish SCOTUS had taken the case and made a rulling.
10:27 < xray> It is kind of a mute point because the bad guys don't care and it is virtually impossible to detect that someone is intercepting traffic if it is done passively and even if you are doing active attacks the likely hood that anyone will notice is essentially zero.
10:28 < xray> Since I work for the good guys (and believe in the mission). I will comply with the law and not intercept traffice.
10:29 < xray> When I do demos now I use my own equipment on my own network with my own traffic.
10:30 < xray> It is far less effective when trying to convince "joe\jane" user to change their computing habits. It was exponentially more effective when I showed people live traffic.
10:31 < xray> Sometimes I miss the simplicity of being a spook. Granted the life style has it issues which is why I left but it made things so much simpler.
10:32 < xray> </rant>
10:57 <@Corydon76> During one year at PhreakNIC, we intercepted plaintext usernames and passwords, and posted them on a gateway webpage, automatically.
10:58 <@Corydon76> Should be long enough ago that any wiretap statute of limitations is past.
11:00 <@Corydon76> As I recall, Dementia was pissed, because she logged into her email with her full email address, not just a username, so the credentials were fully available to get into her email.  If it had been done manually, we wouldn't have done that.
11:05 <@Corydon76> I wonder what Telegram did.  Their service seems to be down.
11:05 <@Dolemite> Ah, the good ol' wall of shame
11:21 < xray> I'm wondering how this has affected Wall of Sheep at DEF CON and Black Hat.
11:28 <@Corydon76> I think the advance disclosure make it a moot point:  they were warned.
11:39 < xray> I would think so bu I'm not a lawyer. To be safe I would make the network password protected so we don't get Joe tourist's traffic.
11:41 < xray> I would assume the big cons have lawyers to vet all this stuff. Like I said I quit doing the demos because I may be vindicated in court eventually after I have had to declare bankruptcy because of the legal bills.
11:42 < xray> It jut isn't worth the risk to prove to clueless users that they need to be more careful.
11:43 < xray> I wish the technology could be used safely by clueless Joe user but it isn't and it is incumbent on them to understand the risks if they do.
11:44 < xray> I'm tired of hearing "but that's not fair". My answer is "suck it up buttercup" life aint fair and your opinion on the matter counts for squat. The rules only apply to the law abiding, the bad guys don't care.
11:45 < xray> And the bad guys are winning while we debate this.
13:46 <@Mirage> lol...VU/VUMC.. https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-05-01
13:46 < PigBot> Two Step Reorg - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2019-05-01 | Dilbert by Scott Adams (at dilbert.com) http://tinyurl.com/y6gghjkj
13:50 < xray> I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
13:51 < xray> On one hand it is funny but on the other I and others I know have had to live through this exact set of events multiple times. Have we learned nothing?
13:51 < xray> Evidence seems to indicate, no we have learned nothing. Just look at the state of security of IoT devices as proof.
13:52 <@Mirage> only a conern for anyone who actually uses IoT devices
13:53 <@Mirage> ^s/conern/concern/
13:53 < xray> Which based on sales is a lot of people.
13:54 < xray> The problem is they are not concerned. They assume that the people who built it were good engineers and "took security into account". They didn't and while we are complaining about it the engineers are retired to some tropical island.
13:55 < xray> Why is retiring to a tropical island a meme for "making it". Have you ever lived on an island?
13:55 <@Mirage> A lot of people have GPS tracking enabled on their phones, paste on facebook, foursquare, etc where they go, when they aren't home, how long they won't be home, etc...and then wonder why their house got robbed while they were on vacation
13:56 < xray> I much prefer living on the mainland due to the easy access to an abundance of resources.
13:56 <@Mirage> those same types of people also wonder why their accounts get hacked and their identity has been stolen after having posted every iota of personal information onto sites like facebook, etc
13:56 < xray> Mirage: Exactly!
13:57 < xray> They are also the ones who think they have nothing to hide.
13:57 < xray> And they trust "government".
13:58 < xray> They obviously haven't tried to find out if X is illegal according to the US code.
13:58 < xray> Fill in X with any arbitrary behavior.
13:59 < xray> me: jumps off soap box before he starts on another rant.
14:00  * xray  jumps off soap box before he starts on another rant.
14:00 < xray> that's better. It helps when you use the right command.
14:00 <@Mirage> misguided trust is the main issue.  personally i whole-heartedly and quite implicitly trust every business and online company to try and gather as much information about me and what i do in order to monetize it as much as possible with little or no regard to privacy in any way, shape, or form other than them hiding the fact that they are doing so.
14:01 < xray> I agree.
14:02 <@Mirage> Dolemite has a fun story about how phone companies "don't sell/share your information"
14:03 <@Mirage> Which anyone/everyone with any common sense knows and has known that they have been doing so for decades
14:11 <@oddball> uhhhh.... then what would you consider "the phone book?"
14:11 <@oddball> The one that pissed me off was when I was getting extended warranties *before* the state got the title to my car to me.
14:32 <@Mirage> Shadow404: dunno if you've ever tried, but an ultrasonic cleaner works wonders on gummed up motorcycle carb jets
14:33 <@Shadow404> nope, i also havent ridden in the states for over 3 years at this point
14:35 <@Mirage> i haven't either...hence the reason for gummed up jets.
14:35 <@Mirage> f'n ethanol
14:36 <@Shadow404> because fuck no to atlanta traffic on 2 wheels anymore
14:37 <@Mirage> ditto for while i was in Plano, TX.  Now that I'm back in McKinney I have easy options for getting out away from the city
14:49 <@Mirage> netflix needs to bring back all the profile settings they used to have...namely the ones partaining to "i don't want to see another bollywood PoS movie ever pop up in my listing again"
16:25 <@Mirage> Anyone with kids should appreciate this comic and the commentary below it: https://cad-comic.com/comic/long-live-the-king/
16:25 < PigBot> Long Live The King - Ctrl+Alt+Del Comic Ctrl+Alt+Del (at cad-comic.com) http://tinyurl.com/yyznqjtl
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20:59 < xray> That is so true.
20:59 < xray> The comments were great.
--- Log closed Fri May 17 00:00:17 2019