--- Log opened Mon May 13 00:00:11 2019
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09:19 <@Corydon76> Dolemite must be on vacation.
09:19 < aestetix> Corydon76: don't worry, I'm not gonna hug you
09:20 <@Corydon76> I meant that it's quiet in here.
09:21 < aestetix> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/us/politics/georgia-official-code-copyright.html
09:21 < PigBot> Accused of ‘Terrorism’ for Putting Legal Materials Online - The New York Times (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/yxqutqxq
09:22 <@Shadow404> aestetix: i seond that about Corydon76
09:22 < aestetix> This is upsetting. Carl Malamud does a great service
09:22 <@Corydon76> Why is it upsetting?  The court ruled against the state.
09:23 <@Corydon76> What they're wanting now is SCOTUS to set a precedent.
09:23 <@Shadow404> thats the commendable thing that the court did the right thing
09:23 <@Corydon76> Taking a victory and going for the championship
09:23 < aestetix> That he's even accused of terrorism at all is absurd
09:24 <@Shadow404> aestetix: why, it happens all the time
09:24 < aestetix> Shadow404: for making laws public so people can follow them?
09:24 <@Shadow404> im sure a couple of us have been interviewed before in this channel
09:25 <@Corydon76> That the state tried to invoke terrorism suggests that they knew they were already on shaky legal ground.
09:25 <@Corydon76> The hope, in such cases, is to turn public opinion for people who won't look too closely.
09:25 < aestetix> You know
09:26 < aestetix> People ask me why I want the government to be as limited in scope as possible
09:26 < aestetix> Situations like this speak louder than any principles I can state
09:27 <@Corydon76> I don't disagree.  But then I see corporations polluting streams with impunity, with a lack of government oversight, and I'm convinced that there is a balance to be had.
09:27 < aestetix> Corydon76: that's why I said "as limited as possible"
09:28 < aestetix> Because it will also be nice to watch the state slam down the banhammer on Facebook when it eventually does
09:28 <@Corydon76> Yes, well, that phrase gets routinely interpreted to mean a complete dismissal of regulations.
09:28 < aestetix> Huh. I was using the "as possible" to give wiggle room
09:29 <@Corydon76> I think the state is best served, as far as Facebook is concerned, with merely sabre rattling.  Their regulations in that space tend to be ham-handed, at best.
09:29 <@Corydon76> And often their ham-handed attempts turn out unconstitutional
09:29 < aestetix> Well there's also the fact that any regulations will likely have been written by Facebook's lawyers, handed to Congress by lobbyists, and in truth help facebook and hurt their competition
09:30 <@Corydon76> Having subject matter experts in government would be beneficial
09:30 < aestetix> Like psychedelic warriors? :p
09:30 < aestetix> or warlord
09:31 <@Corydon76> Probably a social media expert, someone who is able to expertly manipulate social media to their aims.
09:31 < aestetix> Corydon76: alternatively, having people who are technical offering advise and consultations to their representatives would be nice
09:32 <@Corydon76> Someone who understands social media is best positioned to offer regulations that will truly limit the worst abuses.
09:33 <@Corydon76> And not just be barriers that make it slightly more complicated to do so
09:34 <@Corydon76> Verifying identities on social media might do a great deal to stop foreign agents from injecting propaganda, for example.
09:35 <@Corydon76> I know that there's downsides to that, but perhaps limiting the reach of non-verified identities would be a sensible countermeasure.
09:37 <@Corydon76> i.e. non-verified accounts have a maximum of 10 retweets and shares per day.  Want more?  Verify.
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09:39 < aestetix> fuck that
09:40 < aestetix> then again, my solution is to simply shut down twitter
09:40 <@Corydon76> On what legal basis?
09:40 < aestetix> How about imminent domain
09:41 < aestetix> "Yeah, we want to expand the airport to use the twitter.com domain.... so this service is gonna have to go"
09:41 <@Corydon76> Eminent domain involves the use of property for government use.
09:41 < aestetix> Eminent, thanks
09:41 <@Corydon76> Since the Internet is effectively infinite, that argument won't fly in court.
09:42 < aestetix> Ok, how about due to being a public nuisance
09:43 <@Corydon76> Public nuisance involves the requirement of a disproportionate number of government resources to deal with the presence of a business
09:43 < aestetix> I mean I'm being at least partially sarcastic
09:43 <@Corydon76> What government resources is Twitter disproportionately consuming?
09:43 < aestetix> But I do hate twitter and I wish it would die
09:43 < aestetix> Since their business model at this point is basically donald trump's account
09:44 <@Corydon76> I think Twitter is more likely to die purely by running out of investory money
09:45 <@Corydon76> While they do seem to be making a profit now, I think that's likely only to continue while the market is up.  If we have a downturn, the company could well shutter.
09:45 < aestetix> I dunno
09:46 < aestetix> If people are unemployed, won't they just use twitter more?
09:46 < aestetix> Sort of line how online gaming goes up when the economy is down
09:46 <@Corydon76> Usage doesn't mean profit.  Revenue greater than expenses means profit.
09:46 <@Corydon76> Their revenue is advertising.
09:47 <@Corydon76> Advertising always reduces while the economy is in a downturn.
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10:16 <@Shadow404> do you think religious piety is still a factor in govt overreach in today's society?
10:16 <@Shadow404> i meant to address that to you aestetix
10:24 < aestetix> Shadow404: define religious piety
10:24 <@Shadow404> self righteous political using their power to fulfill what they think is the will of god on their citizens
10:25 <@Shadow404> like for example the heartbeat law in georgia
10:25 <@Shadow404> *political/politicians
10:25 < aestetix> actually, the heartbeat law makes a lot of sense
10:26 < aestetix> The question is, when does life begin, and at what point can termination of a life be considered murder
10:26 <@Shadow404> smh
10:26 <@Shadow404> aestetix: its the womans body, not the states
10:26 < aestetix> ok if you're gonna be that way then I won't go into the reasoning to asnwer
10:27 <@Corydon76> The heartbeat bill is an attempt to backdoor ban abortions, nothing more.  They'd like to ban all of them, but the court has intervened.
10:27 < aestetix> I'll simply say that it is a compromise of sorts. I can see both (many) sides of the issue
10:27 <@Corydon76> The only real compromise is for the state to stay out of private medical decisions.
10:28 < aestetix> ok, not gonna further comment
10:28 <@Corydon76> Now, if they REALLY want to stop abortions, simply require that women have a preexisting relationship with a doctor before that doctor is permitted to perform an abortion
10:28 <@Corydon76> Or a referral.  That puts abortions only in the camp of people who get regular medical checkups
10:29 <@Corydon76> And since the mistresses of state lawmakers are still getting abortions on demand, that really points out the hypocrisy of the lawmakers
10:29 < aestetix> Corydon76: that is indeed fucked up
10:31 <@Corydon76> I would not be surprised, for example, if a lawmaker sent a mistress out of state for an abortion the day he voted to make that a conspiracy.
10:31 <@Corydon76> But don't worry; he'll never be charged for that conspiracy.
10:32 < aestetix> Corydon76: that's a big problem.
10:32 < aestetix> Then again, it seems like to get justice these days, just find a photo from his old yearbook and send it to the news
10:32 <@Corydon76> And Georgia lawmakers have already admitted that this bill is just a backdoor ban
10:33 <@Corydon76> I think the court should just toss it on that basis.
10:34 <@Corydon76> It's too bad the court can't order the lawmakers jailed for attempting to skirt existing judicial precedent
10:36 < aestetix> btw Shadow404 unrelated, do you still have eyes on Deutschland?
10:44 <@Shadow404> aestetix: not in the short term
10:45 < K`Tetch_> 11:25:41 «aestetix» actually, the heartbeat law makes a lot of sense <-- it makes NO sense
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10:45 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: I've exited the discussion already
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10:46 < K`Tetch_> a heartbeat means nothing. it's just a tube of striped muscle, responding to a electrical stimulus to contract, a stimulus created in the muscle tissue itself, at the siinoatrial (sp?) node
10:47 < K`Tetch_> its not unknown for foetuses to have heartbeats, but not be viable. Conversely, Dick Cheney's not had a heartbeat since 2010
10:48 < K`Tetch_> and malmu is an odd person, blocked me on twitter...
10:48 < K`Tetch_> also in fun news, Sweden reactivated their assange rape investigation
10:48 < K`Tetch_> refiled the EAW
10:54 < aestetix> on an unrelated note
10:54 < aestetix> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/daveyalba/datacamp-sexual-harassment-metoo-tech-startup
10:54 < PigBot> What Happened When DataCamp Tried To Cover Up Its CEO’s Sexual Misconduct (at www.buzzfeednews.com) http://tinyurl.com/yyvxqdt5
10:54 < aestetix> is it just like.... not possible.... for startup CEOs to not be douchebags?
11:01 <@Corydon76> K`Tetch_: Dick Cheney not having a heartbeat isn't a convincing argument, though.  He's not regarded as human life.
11:09 <@Dolemite> y0
11:10 <@Dolemite> I missed my window of "mr0ning" opportunity to greet you all :(
11:12 <@Corydon76> Arftern00n, Dolemite.
11:13 <@Dolemite> So I don't know if it's just a product of me growing into my skin of being the crotchety old man or not, but DevOpsDays Nashville was a complete waste of time
11:14 <@Dolemite> I saw exactly one presentation that pierced the veil of being slightly technical, and that was on GitHub Actions.   Otherwise, all the talks were more like, "Here are my slides of inside jokes that Sys Admins / DevOps people will get"
11:20 <@Corydon76> That's normal for most conferences, I think.  It's the exception that you get conferences which are technical in nature, and not mostly sales presentations.
11:20 <@Dolemite> These weren't sales presentations
11:20 <@Dolemite> I'd have been more ok with that
11:21 <@Corydon76> It doesn't help that I've attended a presentation on how to get speakerships at conferences:  write 5 really catchy sounding titles, and then, when one is accepted, you write the presentation afterwards.
11:21 <@Dolemite> Let's see.   We had one talking about culture and how if you look at your work's culture and realize it needs to change in order to embrace devops, you should just change jobs.
11:21 <@Corydon76> Like, really?  You didn't present a topic because you were knowledgeable, but because you wanted to attend the conference for free.
11:21 <@Dolemite> Then there was one on mental health and tech folks.   Ok, interesting information, but not relevant to teaching me about DevOps.
11:22 <@Dolemite> Then there was one on physical fitness hacking for techies.   Again, interesting info, but not relevant.
11:23 <@Dolemite> Next morning - a guy from Elastic talking about how observability of services is much more important than component monitoring.   Yes, I agree, but we've been hearing that for years.
11:23 <@Dolemite> Next - talking about how people in tech need to learn to accept compliments as well as learn to give them.   Very SJW orienteed, too.
11:23 <@Corydon76> Honestly, the future of good conferences are PhreakNIC:  cheap, so nobody spends time coming up with useless presentations, just to get to attend for free, and nonprofit.
11:23 <@Dolemite> Then I left.
11:24 <@Dolemite> When work pays for me to attend a conference, I'm expected to bring back some new knowledge.   Something we can use.
11:24 <@Dolemite> I walked into my team lead's office this morning and told her it was a complete waste of time.
11:29 <@Corydon76> Did the conference embrace the idea that DevOps isn't a separate position, but a model of thinking about how the entire IT team is run?
11:29 <@Dolemite> Frankly I don't know if it embraced any single idea
11:29 <@Corydon76> Because it honestly sounds like they expected everybody attending to have a position with that title.
11:30 <@Corydon76> Which is itself ridiculous.
11:30 <@Dolemite> The keynote was a guy from AWS that talked about how DevOps is dead - it has splintered into so many other categories (DevSecOps, SecOps, etc) that there is no such thing as DevOps
11:30 <@Corydon76> Or, "I dunno, as long as we make a profit."
11:30 <@Dolemite> It'
11:31 <@Dolemite> It's volunteer led, but there's a company behind the organizing
11:31  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
11:31 <@Corydon76> Ah, the ultimate in profiteering.
11:31 <@Dolemite> There are DevOpsDays in lots of cities, but not Knoxville
11:31 <@Dolemite> Comparatively speaking, Codestock (held in Knoxville) is 100x better - mainly because it stays on point
11:32 <@Dolemite> I'd be more interested in seeing it evolve to include operational things.
11:32 <@Dolemite> The whole infrastructure as code concept
11:32 < aestetix> Dolemite: that reminds me of when some colleagues went to a local AWS conference to see if there was anything technical they could learn
11:32 < aestetix> The most technical thing they encountered was "use security groups"
11:38 <@Dolemite> Considering how every speaker kept encouraging people in the audience to follow them or others on Twitter, I'm convinced that they have jobs with KPI metrics based on number of speaking appearances and number of followers.
11:41 < aestetix> hahaha
11:42 < aestetix> Reminds me of the interactions I have with tech-hipsters now
11:42 < aestetix> "What's your facebook?" I don't have one." "Ok, can I follow you on twitter?" "Don't have an account." "Ok, what's your phone number?" "See previous answer"
11:43 < aestetix> And then I say "what's your email address?" and they get all paranoid and act like it's super personal
11:44 <@Corydon76> Email has an issue with spam.  None of those other services have an issue with that yet.
11:45 <@Corydon76> But if you don't have a telephone number, how do you authenticate to Telegram?
11:45  * aestetix smiles
11:46 < aestetix> I do have a phone number. And when you call it, the phone in my hallway rings
11:47 < aestetix> best part is, there's no screen to shatter and I can't lose it
11:48 <@Corydon76> The phone in your hallway receives text messages?
11:48 < aestetix> hahha
11:49 <@Dolemite> Isn't Twitter all spam?
11:49 <@Dolemite> Oh, wait, no.   It's 90% hate.    I get those confused.
11:50 < aestetix> Dolemite: thankfully there's an easy spam filter: ignore @realdonaldtrump
11:50 <@Dolemite> or just don't get an account
11:50 < aestetix> but having access to twitter is a fundamental human right
11:50 < aestetix> (I have actually seen that view expressed)
11:51 <@Corydon76> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48244823
11:51 < PigBot> Germany: Three Bavaria hotel guests found dead from crossbow bolts - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/y55x53cb
11:52 <@Corydon76> I found your vacation spot and your victims, aestetix.
11:52 < aestetix> They only found three of them?
11:52 < aestetix> I mean, what are you talking about
11:52 <@Corydon76> They found 5
11:53 <@Corydon76> Two in a different location
11:53 <@Dolemite> But were any of the victims sitting on the shitter?
11:53 <@Dolemite> If so, you may be looking for a dwarf
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12:37 <@Mirage> https://nypost.com/2019/05/13/boy-calls-911-while-locked-in-hot-car-with-6-other-children/
12:37 < PigBot> Boy calls 911 to report he was left in hot car with 6 kids (at nypost.com) http://tinyurl.com/yykstkcr
12:38 <@Mirage> so the kid is smart enough to call the police, but not smart enough to unlock the doors FROM THE INSIDE?
12:38 <@Dolemite> well the boy is clearly smarter than his parent(s)
12:38 <@Mirage> seems to me they're all fucking idiots
12:38 <@Shadow404> but only by a little bit per the aforementioned inability to open the doors from the inside...
12:39 < K`Tetch_> childlocks?
12:39 <@Shadow404> i mean, come on, if you can unlock your phone, type in 911 and speak to an operator, why not open the damn door
12:39 < K`Tetch_> alarm system deadbolting?
12:39 <@Dolemite> Yeah, likely child safety locks would keep them from opening from the inside
12:39 <@Shadow404> if hes old enough to call 911, he can undo the seatbelt and reach the driver side door?
12:40 <@Mirage> in the back possibly, but not the front
12:40 < K`Tetch_> 6 kids = minivan or big suv - I doubt i can reach them
12:40 <@Shadow404> like climb up to the driver door, no childlock there
12:40 <@Dolemite> Wow, you guys are really talking smack about a 4 year old not realizing he can climb in front to open the door.
12:41 <@Shadow404> yeah, that 4 year old is weak sauce
12:41 <@Dolemite> I am so glad that you didn't procreate
12:41 <@Shadow404> :)
12:41 <@Dolemite> No, really.   Fuck you.
12:41 <@Shadow404> i hope that 4 year old sues his parents
12:49 <@oddball> So... the parents left their kids *and* their phone in the car?
12:49 <@oddball> Would have expected that they would take the phone.
12:49 <@Shadow404> im thinking the child had a phone, its more and more common these days
12:50 <@Dolemite> Highly unlikely for a 4 year old
12:50 <@Dolemite> Though not impossible
12:50 <@Shadow404> pah, i was dialing up to bbs' at 4 years of age
12:54 <@Shadow404> oh, you know what it could of been if the child could of reached it. Those in car communication systems like on star with an emergency button
12:54 <@Shadow404> maybe not a traditional phone at all
12:58 <@Mirage> Shadow404: again, smart enough to poke the OnStar button and ask for help, but not smart enough to open the doors?
12:59 <@Shadow404> well fuck you for being so critical of this child (^)
12:59 <@Mirage> anyway, while we're on the subject of stupidity...how'd everyone like GoT last night
12:59 <@Mirage> ?
13:00 <@Shadow404> meh, to much unrealistic drama for me. THe wife and i are watching the real version on curiosity stream and really enjoying it. "The Real War of Thrones"
13:03 <@Mirage> heh.. https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/13/us/game-of-thrones-baby-names/index.html
13:03 < PigBot> 'Game of Thrones' characters are slowly taking over baby names - CNN (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/yyohzvfv
13:03 <@Mirage> one of the guys at work has a daughter named "Khaleesi"
13:06 <@opticron> ...
13:19 <@Dolemite> Mirage: Laziest writing all season
13:45 <@oddball> Mirage: And in 6-7 years, these kids will get picked on on the playground for having funny names.
13:46 <@Dolemite> I make fun of the parents, now
13:47 <@Dolemite> Poor kids had no choice in the matter of their names
13:47 <@Dolemite> But those idiotic parents, well, they deserve every bit of shade you can throw
13:47 <@oddball> yep
13:48 <@Dolemite> Mirage: I wonder how your coworker likes his daughter's name now that they've revealed the character to be a batshit crazy ex girlfriend?
13:48 <@oddball> There are a couple names listed in that article that are also farily normal names... they should be fine.
14:04 < aestetix> at leaset it's better than the fake black names
14:04 < aestetix> like Shanikwa
14:05 <@Shadow404> atinkwa
14:05 <@Shadow404> shameka latrina james
14:11 <@oddball> Tekela?
14:11 <@oddball> yes... pronounces tequila
14:27 <@Shadow404> lovely
14:29 <@Shadow404> co worker has a friend that named their child "north west"
14:30 < K`Tetch_> then again, my son's name is Ian, and almost noone can pronounce that right
14:30 < K`Tetch_> usually saying "aye-an"
14:30 < K`Tetch_> instead of 'e-an'
14:38 <@Shadow404> uh, who the hell pronounces it aye-an???
14:39 <@Shadow404> british?
15:05 <@oddball> Oh, I have a friend named Ian.  People mispronounce it all the damned time.
15:05 <@Shadow404> people are dumb
15:05 <@Shadow404> like that kid that cant open a driver side door
15:06 <@Corydon76> SCOTUS ruling on Apple v Pepper was published.
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22:29 < K`Tetch_> Shadow404 - no, I'm british, we get it right, as its a common name. its people here in ga that get it wrong
--- Log closed Tue May 14 00:00:13 2019