--- Log opened Thu Dec 20 00:00:57 2018
00:01 <@dasunt> Mirage: Yes, but work, sucks....
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06:13 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0, h0, h0ez!
06:41  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
08:22 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akJf2oz5JOM
08:22 < PigBot> Patreon + PayPal = Antitrust Violation (I'm done) (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycbcywch
08:36 <@Dolemite> Ok, that seems like a fairly solid argument
08:38 < aestetix> I don't know a ton about antitrust law, but it makes sense the way he laid it out
08:47 <@Dolemite> Yep, and in all honesty, it made me actually care a little about the issue.   Before it was laid out this way, my whole reaction to the deplatforming has been, "meh".
08:47 <@Dolemite> But in a collaborative (potential) antitrust perspective, it's troubling.
08:50 <@Dolemite> meetin' time
09:02 <@Corydon76> Did he make the case that either of the companies have a monopoly?
09:12 <@Corydon76> At the point where he says that there's not a monopoly, at that point, the argument is lost.
09:13 <@Corydon76> The only thing that is illegal is when a company uses its market power in one area in order to establish dominance in another area.  They're not doing that, so it's not anti-trust.
09:14 <@Corydon76> You may dislike what they're doing.  But it's not illegal.
09:15 <@Corydon76> Another angle might be collusion, to set the price for a commodity.  They're not doing that, either.
09:15 <@Corydon76> It all comes down to waah, waah, waah, I don't like what they're doing, Big Brother, stop them.
09:15 < aestetix> My takeway is that when paypal and stripe pulled support from subscriberstar.... there was no clear reason to do so, except to support Patreon and hurt subscribestar
09:16 < aestetix> Subscribestar has no history of badguys on it like other places (gab, etc) do
09:16 < aestetix> If they had such a history, you could make the case they just wanted to withdraw support from political stuff they didn't like
09:16 <@Corydon76> Facts not in evidence is why they pulled their support.  It may be that there's a larger company at play, like Visa, telling them that something they did was problematic.
09:17 < aestetix> Right. Which is why a move like this might be grounds for a lawsuit, and discovery would reveal other things like what you suggest
09:17 <@Corydon76> In which case, you do what Visa wants, because if they pull their support, there goes a sizeable portion of the Stripe and Paypal business
09:18 <@Corydon76> And if it turns out that SubscriberStar did something that suggested fraud, and they had a legal obligation to pull back, what then?  They pay the legal bills of those companies?
09:19 <@Corydon76> You're asking for a fishing expedition, with not a great likelihood of success.
09:19 < aestetix> Well hold on
09:19 <@Corydon76> And courts don't like fishing expeditions
09:19 < aestetix> If there is any plausible explanation other than illegal activity, you'd be correct
09:19 < aestetix> But if it seems likely that there was activity that was illegal, than it's not a fishing expedition
09:19 <@Corydon76> What illegal activity?
09:20 < aestetix> And maybe paypal can put out a press release that clarifies it
09:20 < aestetix> The section of the antitrust law the guy in the video cited
09:20 < aestetix> I take it you didn't watch the video and are arguing based on the headline?
09:20 <@Corydon76> When it comes to financial fraud, they don't want to tip off the bad guys that they're onto them
09:20 <@Corydon76> I watched enough of the video
09:21 < aestetix> Not enough to know the part of law he was referring to
09:21 < aestetix> I can't remember, but I'm also not an antitrust lawyer :)
09:21 <@Corydon76> I dislike videos in the first place, because you can't easily fact-check them, and they're a huge timesuck
09:21 < aestetix> That's fine
09:21 <@Corydon76> Have him write a legal brief, so we can hear from the legal community
09:22 < aestetix> That would be great
09:22 <@Corydon76> But not going to happen, because he needs people to watch his videos, and people reading briefs doesn't get his watcher population up
09:23 < aestetix> And therefore he is wrong?
09:23 < aestetix> His argument sounded plausible to me.
09:24 <@Corydon76> That's probably because you're not as familiar with the law.
09:25 < aestetix> And possibly because you didn't watch enough of the video to get his full argument
09:25 <@Corydon76> He's really trying to make a case, but he's missing that what he describes Paypal as doing is completely within the law.
09:26 <@Corydon76> Now if he's talking about something other than antitrust, maybe.  But the title is about antitrust, and on this, he's wrong.
09:26 <@Corydon76> Let's suppose for the sake of argument that Paypal has monopoly power.  That's legal, as long as they did so on their own merits.
09:27 <@Corydon76> Now, using that monopoly power, what new market are they trying to dominate?
09:28 <@Corydon76> How are they trying to use that monopoly power to take over another industry?
09:28 <@Corydon76> If the answer is "None", then it's not antitrust.
09:42 <@Corydon76> You know the very simple reason why payment processors likely cut them off?  Sudden influx of new transactions beyond their previous volume.  It's generally a signal that fraud is occurring.
09:43 <@Corydon76> And that would be a signal that every payment processor would flag them on.
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10:03 <@Dolemite> Yay.   Production Readiness Review for the dockerEE/kubernetes clusters I've been building out for the past few months was just approved.
12:31 < Evilpig_> https://www.plex.tv/blog/rocking-around-the-christmas-dashboard/
12:31 < PigBot> Rocking Around the Christmas Dashboard | Plex (at www.plex.tv) http://tinyurl.com/ycnnv26x
12:31 < Evilpig_> no more need for plexwatch/tautulli
12:32 <@Dagmar> First rule of evaluating youtube videos:
12:33 <@Dagmar> "If they could only be bothered to sit in front of a webcam and run their mouth, what they have to say is probably complete and utter shit."
12:33 <@Dagmar> No need to waste even a moment watching a YouTube video with some histrionic crap about antitrust in the title
12:33 <@Dagmar> Fuck that YouTuber and their armchair ignorance straight to hell
12:34 <@Dagmar> Fuck them twice because of being one of the thousands of people filling YouTube with rubbish
12:34 <@Dagmar> ...and at two fuck yous they get a bonus fuck you absolutely free.
12:35 <@Dagmar> Remember: Things don't get better if you see something shitty and *don't* do something to stop it
12:35 <@Dagmar> See also: tragedy of the commons
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13:01 <@dasunt> I don't get the appeal of most Youtube videos trying to explain something, but I may be biased because half the time when someone links me to a Youtube video that claims to explain something, it starts out with the Federal Reserve, European Union, or whatnot, and ends with "and that's why they are all lizard people."
13:05 < Evilpig_> the majority of youtube videos are now 2-3 minutes of "Hey youtube and welcome... blah blah today we're gonna blah blah"
13:05 < Evilpig_> 30 seconds of actual useful info
13:06 < Evilpig_> 2-3 minutes of "don't forget to subscribe and here are some other things I did"
13:06 <@dasunt> There's been a few that I find useful.
13:06 <@dasunt> Mostly it's along the lines of "here's what this nifty chemical reaction does" or "here's how to remove and reinstall an oil filter on a ..."
13:07 <@dasunt> And even with around 50% of the "how to" videos, you can tell the doer is an idiot.
13:11 <@dasunt> "Here's how to remove your gas tank from a 2005 blah blah.  First, you crawl under the rear axle by the gas tanks and then, " *pauses to light his cigarette* "you disconnect the gas line here..."
13:54 <@Shadow404> Huh, the last how to video i watched was how to replace a wing mirror on my 2015 car (dont ask) and that video was well done.
13:54 <@Shadow404> got right to the point in 15 secs and no long subscribe now bs
13:59 <@Shadow404> though i did have to craft my own makeshift coat hangar wire tool to get the control cables around the internal glass window frame guides.
14:05 <@Corydon76> The guy who did the glitter bomb which is currently going viral also did a fantastic video on the physics of pinewood derby.
14:06 <@Corydon76> So yes, there is good content on Youtube, but that legal pontification isn't it.
14:06 <@Corydon76> Mark Rober
15:19  * dasunt may have to wait on sending this email.
15:19  * dasunt deletes the email.
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 21 00:00:59 2018