--- Log opened Wed Dec 19 00:00:56 2018
00:21 < aestetix> Dolemite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGjiPFlTusw
00:21 < PigBot> Patreon's Statement To Me PROVES They KNOW The Rules Arent Clear (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/y75br3wc
00:22 < aestetix> it gets even worse
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06:25 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0, h0, h0ez!
06:31  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:07 < Evilpig_> _NSAKEY: I wouldn't worry about the word fuck being on the screen since he can't really read, but he was watching foot fetish porn
07:08 <@brimstone> nonsense, there's no porn on youtube
07:17 < Evilpig_> those videos were self-labeled 18+ something feet
07:17 < Evilpig_> it was weird!
07:18 <@Corydon76> Evilpig_: did you watch them all to be certain?
07:21 <@brimstone> any labeled 5+ something feet?
07:22 < Evilpig_> I did not.  the thumbnails were more than enough to get an idea of their content
07:22 < Evilpig_> it took me nearly two days to get them out of my history so youtube stopped suggesting weird feet videos
07:24 <@Dolemite> For a good laugh
07:24 <@Dolemite> https://boingboing.net/2018/12/18/tesla-driver-attempts-to-fill.html
07:24 < PigBot> Tesla driver attempts to fill car with gasoline / Boing Boing (at boingboing.net) http://tinyurl.com/y9rmyvfo
07:27 < aestetix> Just out of curiousity, how DO you charge a tesla?
07:28 < aestetix> like are there stations around or something?
07:28 < aestetix> apparently yes
07:28 <@Corydon76> Yes.  In fact, there are public parking spots with charging stations
07:28 <@brimstone> you just buy a new one when the battery goes dead
07:28 < aestetix> haha
07:29 < aestetix> So how does someone this stupid wind up with a car that expensive
07:29 <@brimstone> daddy bought it
07:29 <@Dolemite> The sexist answer would be "boyfriend/husband"
07:30 <@Corydon76> Probably a rental
07:30 < aestetix> Corydon76: I hope you're right
07:30 < aestetix> comment has the answer
07:30 < aestetix> "To be fair. She normally has a servant take care of it"
07:30 <@Corydon76> If the car was hers, she'd have gotten a full education about it.
07:31 <@Shadow404> even then, she would be texting on her phone during the education and not paying attention
07:32 <@Corydon76> I'd be one of those who has driven a rental off the lot without doing any reading whatsoever, and then realized I had no idea which side had the gas, how to open the exterior door, etc.
07:32 <@Shadow404> like taking selfies "look guys, my new car <insert 10 unrelated emoji's here>"
07:32 <@Corydon76> Hell, it took me 10 minutes the first time I had the Passat to figure out how to open the gas door.
07:32 <@Shadow404> Corydon76: thats when the arrow next to the gas icon is handy
07:33 <@Corydon76> On many vehicles, there's a lever to pull inside the driver's compartment.
07:33 <@Corydon76> But not on the Passat.  You have to push the door in, and then it pops open
07:34 <@Corydon76> Used car, didn't come with a manual.
07:34 <@brimstone> how'd you figure that out, beat on it?
07:34 <@brimstone> that's how i'd end up figuring it out
07:34 <@Corydon76> Googled it
07:34 <@Shadow404> brimstone: its called puberty...
07:35 <@Corydon76> Might have been I was trying to pry it open, my hand slipped and pushed it in.
07:36 <@Corydon76> So yeah, it's like those magnetic cabinet catches
07:47 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEw0ePZUMHA
07:47 < PigBot> Joe Rogan Experience #1216 - Sir Roger Penrose (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ydgvtunj
07:59 <@Dolemite> Rebalanced my 401K/403B positions last night.   Should have done it when we orginally planned to back in early November.   I've lost $25K in value since 9/30, not including what I've contributed each month from my paychecks since then.
07:59 <@Dolemite> Are we tired of WINNING, yet?
08:05 <@Shadow404> Make America GREAT again
08:05 <@Corydon76> Don't blame me; I voted for Hillary.
08:08 <@Shadow404> same, lesser evil
08:08 <@Corydon76> Not even evil.  That was all Russian propaganda.
08:09 <@Corydon76> We really got screwed by foreign interference.
08:10 <@Shadow404> and now we are even more of the worlds laughing stock than ever
08:10 <@Corydon76> I don't think we're the world's laughing stock.  I think the world is greatly concerned over what he might do next.
08:11 <@Shadow404> especially with the football
08:11 <@Shadow404> does he have to have approval with a second party to use that?
08:12 <@Corydon76> Yes.  He needs the Secretary of Defense to concur.
08:12 <@Corydon76> They were probably laughing before he started messing around with tariffs.
08:12 <@Shadow404> whew, but still...scary. How hard would it be to get approval from that person?
08:12 <@Corydon76> Maddog Mattis?  Pretty hard, for a nonexistent threat
08:13 <@Corydon76> But Trump might get another Bork.
08:14 <@Corydon76> I was watching a documentary on Nixon last night.  The Saturday Night Massacre really was enough to bring Nixon down
08:14 <@Corydon76> They might not have had the votes (yet) to impeach when he resigned, but it was heading in that direction
08:15 <@dasunt> I'm just hoping Pence is crooked as well.
08:15 <@dasunt> Because that guy is a nutjob.
08:15 <@Corydon76> I forget whether Nixon had to fire 2 or 3 people to get to a person (Bork) who would consent to fire the special counsel
08:16 <@Shadow404> its really fucked up our laws dont protect special investigations
08:16 <@dasunt> Wasn't it two?
08:16 <@Corydon76> And it was really nuts that, given this past history, that Reagan appointed him to SCOTUS.
08:25 <@brimstone> but Nixon wasn't a crook
08:25 <@brimstone> he said so himself
08:28 <@Shadow404> just like Trump said that he wasn't worried about Cohen having any real proof
08:32 <@dasunt> Witchhunt!
08:33 <@dasunt> https://imgur.com/gallery/TE1tvCq
08:33 < PigBot>  I've got the worst fucking attorneys... - Imgur (at imgur.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8a6klqo
08:33 <@Shadow404> bhahaaha
08:44 <@Corydon76> dasunt: there is no doubt, in my mind, that every politician who has been elected to statewide or higher office has done something particularly crummy.  The only question is whether the crummy thing they've done was illegal.
09:22 <@brimstone> *at the time
09:45 <@dasunt> of course
09:54 <@rhia> Corydon76, IF Mattis stays around
09:56 <@Corydon76> rhia: oh, you're right.  Trump could easily appoint someone to "fill in" who hasn't been confirmed by the Senate, and we're off to WW3.
09:56 <@Corydon76> This is the most scary thing, that he's putting people in places they have no business being.
09:58 <@rhia> sadly, Pence is every bit as bad -- Where Trump is chaotic evil, Pence is God's* Lawful Evil  (Pence's personal petty version of GOD, of course)
10:03 <@Corydon76> Recent news reports suggest that Mueller has been looking into Pence's activities, as well, so we could lose both
10:04 <@brimstone> i wouldn't say "lose"
10:04 <@Corydon76> Question is, do we lose a VP, then lose a POTUS before the Senate confirms a replacement for VP?
10:04 <@Corydon76> brimstone: I would.  POTUS could well flee to Mother Russia.
10:04 <@rhia> if the gods are so kind, the planets align, the groundhog sees his shadow, and the creek don't rise
10:05 <@Corydon76> With what he knows from 2 years in office, I think Putin might refuse extradition
10:05 <@rhia> Corydon76, then the Speaker takes over, at least, it should flow that way
10:05 <@brimstone> maybe that was the plan the whole time?
10:05 <@Corydon76> rhia: right, which will be Pelosi in another 12 days.
10:05 <@rhia> brimstone, Pelosi thinks the long game? <g>
10:05 <@brimstone> SNOWDEN TRIED TO WARN US
10:06 <@Corydon76> If Trump is for the Republicans, he'll resign before Paul Ryan gives up the gavel.
10:07 <@rhia> Trump is for Trump - 1st, last, always
10:08 <@Corydon76> And, collectively, we've learned nothing from the Nixon years.
10:09 <@rhia> I dunno, the GOP has learned how to dodge responsibility quite well
10:11 <@Corydon76> ...even while preaching personal responsibility.
10:12 <@rhia> for OTHER people. The GOP is obsessed with "othering"
10:15 < aestetix> brimstone: any chance you'll be at CCC?
10:15 <@brimstone> not this year
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10:35 <@Corydon76> I need more monitors. https://gizmodo.com/i-bought-this-custom-18-million-pixel-workstation-on-cr-1830844391
10:35 < PigBot> I Bought This Custom 18-Million Pixel Workstation on Craigslist, and It Very Nearly Ruined Me (at gizmodo.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb9grqp9
10:35 <@Dolemite> And now we're pulling out of Syria, much to Russia and Iran's delight.
10:38 <@Dolemite> Not that we ever really should have gone in, but once in, you shouldn't leave things worse than when you started
10:45 <@rhia> Dolemite, that's Trump's entire MO
10:45 <@Dolemite> Yep
10:46 <@Dolemite> But I'm starting to look at this in an even more paranoid, skeptical frame of mind.   I think he's seeing how many more of his backers' bucket list items done before it all comes crashing down on him.
10:47 <@Dolemite> Do this for Mother Russia, maybe they give me asylum
10:48 <@rhia> He can room with Steven Seagal!
10:48 <@Dolemite> lol
10:49 <@dasunt> I would say a lot of Trump's attitude towards Russia would be adequately explained by a Russian piss tape.
10:49 <@rhia> bah, his followers would applaud him paying people to piss on the mattress Obama supposedly slept on
10:49 <@rhia> it's the money
10:50 <@rhia> I suspect Trump had rebuilt his empire (again) with a copious amount of laundry rubles
10:50 <@Dolemite> His followers are more like his acolytes.   They believe him above all others.   Facts be damned.
10:51 <@Dolemite> I still have plenty on my FB feed that are 150% true believers
10:52 <@rhia> amazing what a diet of fear will do to a mind
10:52 <@Corydon76> I have few of the true believers, but I have many more of the dyed-in-the-wool Republicans who are strangely silent on politics for the last 18 months.
11:06 <@Dolemite> Many of the rednecks that I attended High School with are the true believers
11:06 <@dasunt> I have a few true believers on my FB page.
11:07 <@Dolemite> And some of the rednecks I attended High School with are not favorable towards Trump
11:07 <@Dolemite> I guess it's more fair to say that I have a few very squeaky wheel true believers
11:07 <@dasunt> There's also the forum I lurk in with a bunch of /pol-ish folks that are definitely on the Trump train (as well as the racism train, the homophobia train, etc)
11:11 <@dasunt> I'd like to know how many supporters Trump has lost.
11:11 <@dasunt> Speaking of which:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/12/17/i-voted-trump-now-his-wall-may-destroy-my-butterfly-paradise/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0eb20293fb49
11:11 < PigBot> I voted for Trump. Now his wall may destroy my butterfly paradise. - The Washington Post (at www.washingtonpost.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8hw3le2
11:11 <@dasunt> That writer is a goddamned idiot.
11:13 <@Corydon76> In that the true believers are around 20% of the electorate, I wouldn't be surprised if he still has most of them.  The problem for Trump is that he drew on a wide coalition to get elected, and he's managed to piss off most of the rest of the coalition
11:14 <@Dolemite> Yet the Republican party is still too scared to stand up to him
11:14 <@dasunt> I feel like Trump is more unpopular now though while his 2020 opponent is a nebulous entity.
11:15 <@Corydon76> There's no reason to stick their necks out yet.  He's shown he's not shy about attacking fellow Republicans
11:15 <@Corydon76> And I doubt their strategy will be to stick their necks out against him, but they might not donate to his campaign or show up on Election Day.
11:16 <@dasunt> I could see a scenario where they throw Trump under the bus.
11:16 <@dasunt> Depends on how bad the scandals get.  If it gets bad enough, they'll blame it all on Trump and impeach him.  "He wasn't ever a real Republican," they'll say.
11:16 <@Corydon76> Passive opposition is much more likely than active opposition.
11:18 <@Corydon76> I do believe the Republicans got the Clinton impeachment right, though.  They waited until after an election cycle, and then went to work... and by the time the next election rolled around, people only remembered the result, not their tactics.
11:18 <@Corydon76> Put it too close to an election, and it winds up energizing his base.
12:31 <@dasunt> I think the Democrats should wait.
12:32 <@dasunt> Politically, an investigation launched about a year before the election may be better than an impeachment.
12:41 < aestetix> you also need grounds for impeachment
12:41 < aestetix> and a few sensationalized news stories are not grounds. maybe if something comes out of the FBI
12:42 <@dasunt> Oh, he's impeachable at this point, IMO.
12:42 <@rhia> impeachable, but when can we arrest them?
12:43 < aestetix> dasunt: on what grounds?
12:43 < aestetix> maybe I missed something
12:43 <@dasunt> President, AFAIK, doesn't get arrested.  Thus the impeachment.
12:43 <@brimstone> isn't every president impeachable, at any time?
12:43 <@dasunt> aestetix: "Treason, bribery, other high crimes and misdeanors" is the list of impeachable offences.
12:43 <@brimstone> impeachment is just bringing the president to a court case, right?
12:44 <@rhia> unless he proclaims himself president for life (which he has floated before)
12:44 < aestetix> brimstone: correct
12:44 < aestetix> impeachment is a formal accusation by the house
12:44 < aestetix> removable is done by the senate, with a full majority
12:44 <@dasunt> To use the list from Wikipedia:  "pergury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, tax evasion, etc"
12:44 <@rhia> but, we have Democrats -- who will probably try to "mend the country" and give him a pardon
12:45 < aestetix> Like Pelosi basically did to Bush in 2006?
12:45 <@rhia> Pelosi was President in 2006?
12:45 <@dasunt> (That list is what falls under high crimes and disdemeanors"
12:45 < aestetix> oh, I meant her "impeachment is off the table" when everyone, myself included, was screaming at her to bring articles of impeachment against Bush for iraq
12:46  * dasunt can't type today.
12:47 <@dasunt> Anyways, as I was saying, he's committed impeachable offenses.  But impeachment is political.  It's not what he's done, it's how popular/unpopular he is.
12:47 <@rhia> if someone could just convince Bush & Cheney to take an international vacation, they might finally see justice, but not here "be nice, don't make waves, heal the country" <--you do that by punishing those in charge, not just a token minion or two
12:48 <@dasunt> rhia: I don't like that idea.
12:48 <@rhia> dasunt, not worried about it because those two won't test the theory
12:48 <@dasunt> When politicians fear that once they leave office, they'll be prosecutored, then politicians are more likely to try to hold onto power by whatever means they can.
12:49 <@dasunt> "prosecutored" <- Guess who didn't get enough sleep last night.
12:49 <@rhia> dasunt, but if they know they won't be prosecuted, they feel free to do whatever the hell they way, laws be damned
12:49 <@dasunt> Until they are kicked out of office.
12:50 <@rhia> same incentive to hold on to power by whatever means they can
12:50 <@dasunt> Not the same incentive.
12:50 <@rhia> it is when the goal is power
12:50 <@rhia> why give up power if there's no real punishment?
12:51 <@dasunt> Think of a continuum.  On one end, when there's a transition of power, the old guard is hauled out to the back yard and summarily executed.  On the other end, the old guard goes homes and lives the rest of their lives peacefully.
12:51 <@dasunt> Which end of that continuum has people trying to hold onto power more?
12:52 <@rhia> if you're dealing with reasonable people
12:52 <@rhia> reasonable is not the first, or fortieth word to come to mind with the current cheeto in chief
12:53 <@dasunt> Of course not.  Guy's a senile old nut.
12:53 <@dasunt> But that's why we have other systems in place - blocking him in the courts, blocking him via congress, even removal, if so be it.
12:53 <@rhia> and if WE had held BushCo to the rule of law, it wouldn't necessarily be "summarily executed" - it would be upholding the USA ideal of "no-one is above the rule of law"
12:54 <@rhia> so, yes, i would like to see the office of President no longer mean "free ride to do illegal actions"
12:55 <@dasunt> Okay, so say a semi-decent but president that's somewhat unpopular gets into office, and is later replaced by a big orange ball of hate.
12:55 <@rhia> strongly suspect that might be a major reason Trump wanted the position - that and his ego thinks he somehow "deserves" it
12:55 <@dasunt> What's to prevent the crazy from going after the normal?
12:56 <@rhia> um, law-- a standard of upholding the law
12:56 <@rhia> is basically the ONLY thing keeping said crazy coloring inside any of the lines
12:57 <@dasunt> So basically, the law prevents people's rights from being violated?
12:57 <@dasunt> If so, then we don't need to care what the president does, because the law prevents him from violating the rights of others.
12:57 <@rhia> because crazy has systematically gone after E v e r y thing semi-decent did
12:57 <@rhia> dasunt, hunh?
12:58 <@dasunt> I'm pointing out that nothing, other than tradition, is stopping Trump's justice department from going after Obama.
12:58 <@rhia> it appears we are arguing at cross purposes because I never even insinuated such
12:59 <@rhia> rule of law includes "just cause" not "just because"
12:59 <@dasunt> My point is that if you get a reasonable person in a position of power, and they fear prosecution upon leaving that position of power, they are less likely to give up power.
12:59 <@rhia> see last comment
13:00 <@dasunt> I think we may view the law differently.
13:01 <@rhia> if reasonable person executes his office reasonably legally, there is no just cause to go after them upon leaving office
13:01 <@dasunt> And who determines just cause?
13:01 <@rhia> 235+ years of precedent, for starters
13:03 <@dasunt> And what is to prevent someone from ignoring precedent?
13:05 <@rhia> you mean the cheeto or getting the rest of the government to agree that charges are deserved?
13:05 <@dasunt> Well, getting to justice department to agree.
13:10 <@rhia> not sure you'd get the entire bureaucracy to agree to break the law because one person tells them too -- should be enough career bees to take their concerns to other departments and officials
13:11 <@dasunt> You don't necessarily need to break the law.  If you look hard enough at someone, and want to go after them, you'll usually find they've done quite a few illegal things.
13:13 <@dasunt> Like, for example, campaign finance violations.  Trump is partially right - Obama's campaign did have some campaign finance violations, but they were (AFAIK) minor mistakes with no intent behind them, and mistakes that were owed up to and fines were paid when the mistake was discovered.
13:13 <@rhia> and?
13:13 <@rhia> they were fined, they paid - the law worked
13:14 <@dasunt> Now how many mistakes are there that weren't discovered?  There's probably a few.
13:14 <@rhia> like i stated earlier, i think we're arguing at cross purposes
13:15 <@dasunt> What happens when its normal to go after ex-politicians for their actions in office?  Because I see that being used as a political tool.  If it's the norm, I could see Trump trying to get Obama's campaign investigated to take heat off his issues.
13:17 <@rhia> and someone like Trump (and whoever might be worse to follow him) who are complete political idiots who don't even know what tariffs are  is what we get if politicians are allowed to run ramshod over the law while in office
13:18 <@rhia> (apparently dasunt is not the only one who can't type today <g>)
13:18 <@dasunt> Stupidity in and of itself is not a crime.
13:18 <@rhia> not the point
13:18 <@dasunt> We're free to elect any stupid person we want.  :(
13:18 <@rhia> the point is the Russians have who they wanted in that seat -- the next one might be even worse
13:20 <@rhia> and he's there because we are free to elect any stupid we want -- but also because the draw of being above the law is like catnip to a mob boss like Trump
13:20 <@dasunt> Mob boss gives him way too much credit.
13:21 <@rhia> not really, they're not that smart or there wouldn't be so many of them in prison
14:08 <@Dagmar> I don't think even the Russians expected he'd be this stupid
14:08 <@Dagmar> PIcking fights with Canada and China was just jaw-droppingly dumb
14:10 <@rhia> makes him feel like a big strong manly man
14:40 <@dasunt> I don't think the Russians expected that he'd win.
14:40 <@dasunt> It was more of a way to weaken a Hillary presidency.
14:58 <@rhia> hell, did you see Trump's face the night of the election? TRUMP didn't think he'd win
14:59 <@dasunt> Yep.
15:07 <@Mirage> The constant job title changes with Dell-EMC are annoying.
15:08 <@Mirage> They switched us all from Solutions Architect or Senior Solutions Architect to "Senior Engineer, Solutions Architecture", "Principle Engineer, Solutions Architecture", or "Senior Principle Engineer, Solutions Architecture"
15:08 <@Mirage> WTF is a "Principle Engineer"
15:09 <@Corydon76> Probably a misspelling of "principal"
15:11 <@Mirage> ok..so what is a "Principal" engineer
15:11 <@rhia> or an ethics officer?
15:11 <@Mirage> And are there "Vice Principal" engineers?
15:12 <@Mirage> rhia: there was a guy on Graham Norton telling a story in the Red Chair not too long ago that was an "Ethics Officer"
15:13 <@rhia> back in grade school, they taught us that the principals were our "pals" -- maybe they're friendly engineers, like Bill Nye ;)
15:14 <@rhia> Paul Ryan whines about our "broken politics" -- after being one of the instrumental breakers of the last decade
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21:46 <@dasunt> If I save 70% of my income, I could retire in 9 years, on average.
21:46 <@dasunt> <_<
21:48 <@dasunt> I was just thinking about this because my wife can max out both a 457 and a 403(b), which is insane.
21:49 <@dasunt> Between the two of us, we could technically stash $66,500 a year in retirement accounts.
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22:59 <@Mirage> dasunt: yeah..but, stuff...shiny..
--- Log closed Thu Dec 20 00:00:57 2018