--- Log opened Fri Nov 30 00:00:27 2018
06:17 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0, h0, h0ez!
06:28  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:41  * Dolemite reaches around and gooses aestetix
06:44 < aestetix> what is goosing
06:44 < ware> froggin the fartbox?
06:44 <@Dolemite> grabbing at your gluteous maximus
06:49 < aestetix> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/two-more-women-accuse-neil-degrasse-tyson-of-sexual-misconduct/
06:49 < PigBot> Two More Women Accuse Neil deGrasse Tyson of Sexual Misconduct | David G. McAfee (at www.patheos.com) http://tinyurl.com/y88xkls6
06:50 < ware> boo.  hes a good man
06:50 < aestetix> well americans currently have a system of guilty until proven guilty
06:52 <@Dolemite> Yes, and "sexual misconduct" seems to be an ever expanding scope.   I can tell a dirty joke in front of a stranger and be accused of that, these days.   At least, that's what it seems like it has shifted to.
06:52 < aestetix> In fact there is a story about that at the moment
06:52 < aestetix> Some guy made a lame joke in an elevator and now his job is in the line
06:52 < aestetix> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/05/is-this-old-lingerie-joke-harmless-or-harassment/559760/
06:52 < PigBot>  Is a 'Ladies' Lingerie' Joke Harmless or Harassment? - The Atlantic  (at www.theatlantic.com) http://tinyurl.com/yc4tsgaw
07:00 < ware> true
07:01 < ware> snowflakes errywhere
07:01 < ware> folks dont know how to handle being offended
07:02 < ware> happy friday!
07:02 <@Dolemite> Damn.   Women's Lingerie isn't sexual innuendo, it's simply a department for shopping.
07:03 <@Dolemite> Lady is cray cray
07:35 <@Corydon76> After reading everything, I have to concur with your judgment, Dolemite.
07:36 <@Corydon76> What the ISA should have done is to state that Sharoni failed to follow protocol, prior to contacting Lebow, and that she should attempt to resolve the issue directly.
07:37 <@Dolemite> Corydon76: Not only that, the Code of Conduct leaves too much open to any interpretation, without guidance as to what actually constitutes a violation.
07:37 <@Dolemite> I mean, you could sneeze, and I tell you, "Bless you."   As an atheist, you could be offended.
07:37 <@Corydon76> Exactly.  The old Internet protocol adage seems fitting.  "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send."
07:38 <@Dolemite> The proper solution would be for you to simply tell me that you're an atheist and that you'd appreciate it if I didn't try to force some blessing upon you every time you sneeze.
07:38 <@Dolemite> At that point, I would apologize, and instead start telling you to go fuck yourself whenever you sneezed.
07:38 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: the proper thing is to accept that there are some offhand expressions that people have in language that are tossed out without thinking about the implications of them.
07:39 <@Dolemite> Intent has to be considered
07:39 <@Corydon76> I don't complain about "God bless you" in response to a sneeze, because it's simply an expression, not an intentional act of proselytism
07:40 <@Dolemite> My intent was to acknowledge, with some form of cultural manners, that you sneezed and that I understand you're not simply trying to disrupt things.
07:40 < aestetix> Corydon76: and how do you handle dealing with groups of people who actively look for things to be offended by?
07:41 <@Corydon76> aestetix: I don't.  If they want to be involved, I may listen to their concern, but ultimately judge that they're engaging in concern-trolling.
07:41 <@Corydon76> That said, I may *still* try to assuage hurt feelings on both sides without escalating it to a formal process.
07:42 <@Corydon76> Because while I see a lot of that as concern-trolling, sometimes some people may genuinely be hurt, and that calls for a light touch.
07:43 <@Corydon76> People who are demanding that others be ejected for what are minor offenses are the real threat to an organization, because they won't be satisfied until they alone are in charge.
07:44 <@Dolemite> Yep, there's a parallel with what we had to go through in my son's Scout troop, recently, and in which case our family was ejected from both the Troop and Pack
07:44 < aestetix> What about a group that actively looks at conferences to see 1. if they have a code of conduct 2. if so, does the code have enough "safe" language in it?
07:44 <@Dolemite> My son was hit and his life was threatened by someone that we had repeatedly complained about bullying.
07:44 < aestetix> And then if the group sees an offending conference, they screenshot and tweet about it, instead of contacting the organizer to complain?
07:45 < aestetix> Just as a hypothetical example.
07:45 <@Dolemite> The committee decided that my son had provoked such a response by telling the other boy to go jump off a cliff.
07:45 < aestetix> wait what
07:45 <@Dolemite> That was advocating suicide, according to them
07:45 <@Dolemite> So we decided not to return my son to the troop
07:46 < aestetix> And here I was hoping that the next generation was not a bunch of snowflakes
07:46 <@Dolemite> That decision upset the troop, so they went to the person from the church in charge of both programs and convinced him to kick us all out in the middle of the year.   They said it was bad optice that the Cubmaster's son wasn't in the troop.
07:46 <@Corydon76> aestetix: you seem to be heavy on the hypotheticals before I've had my caffeine.
07:47 <@Dolemite> And by the way, this is the person in charge of deciding what is and isn't appropriate behavior:  http://archive.knoxnews.com/news/local/teacher-reassigned-after-sexual-remarks-ep-412368447-360076491.html/
07:47 < PigBot> Teacher reassigned after sexual remarks (at archive.knoxnews.com) http://tinyurl.com/yblebx4u
07:47 <@Corydon76> aestetix: the next generation ISN'T a bunch of snowflakes.  He's talking about the leadership of the troop.
07:47 < aestetix> oh so its the adults who are causing the issues, not the scouts?
07:47 <@Dolemite> So the whole thing has blown up in their face.   The parents of the kids in the pack are pissed because this was a unilateral decision without them.   They also know how much work I put into it.
07:48 < aestetix> I had assumed that the "other boy" had tattled on Dolemite's son, leading to this
07:48 <@Dolemite> I also made sure that everybody who knows me on Facebook was aware that they had kicked a 9 year old girl out of Cub Scouts
07:48 <@Corydon76> Any time it's the scouts causing a problem, they can be reigned in by the leadership.  If they fail to reign in the scouts, that's a failure of leadership, not a failure of adolescent children.
07:48 <@Dolemite> When we complained about the threat to my son's life, he suddenly came up with his excuse of provocation
07:48 < aestetix> Then again, a mature adult would have told the other boy to deal with it
07:49 < aestetix> or ignore it, whatever
07:49 <@Dolemite> Also, the "go jump off of a cliff" was apparently from long in the past
07:49 <@Dolemite> If it even happened
07:49 < aestetix> Dolemite: someone threatened your kid's life?
07:49 <@Corydon76> aestetix: a mature adult would have reigned in the physical violence
07:49 < aestetix> I mean regardless of what it was about, that's never acceptable
07:50 <@Corydon76> I don't necessarily agree that words can't hurt, but there's no reason to get physical
07:50 <@Dolemite> aestetix: Yes.   The one threatening said he was going to grind up nuts and hide them in my son's food.   Everybody was aware that my son is allergic to nuts.   He then told my son that if that didn't kill him, he'd stab him with his knife.
07:50 < aestetix> Is the one threatening an adult?
07:50 <@Dolemite> He also hit him and yanked on another kid's hair so hard that two adults had to pull him off
07:51 <@Dolemite> But this is all because my son supposedly told him to jump off of a cliff
07:51 <@Dolemite> The one threatening was another boy in the troop
07:51 <@Dolemite> One that had already been suspended for 6 months because he wouldn't mind the adults
07:51 < aestetix> Ok. One of those demands adult intervention, the other would demand police intervention
07:52 <@Corydon76> That kid needs to be in the care of a psychologist and possibly a psychiatrist for his tendency to bully and get physical with other kids
07:52 <@Dolemite> If the State of TN allowed for restraining orders against minors, we'd already have one in place
07:52 < aestetix> well Dolemite I gotta say
07:53 < aestetix> Since you have a bit of free time now, maybe it's time to polish your debate skils for your 2020 run :)
07:53 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: when does the abusive kid turn 18?
07:53 <@Corydon76> All the warning signs are there for law enforcement to keep him on their radar
07:54 <@Dolemite> I finally got my son to visit another troop meeting last week.   He actually smiled, enjoyed himself, and decided to join it.
07:54 <@Dolemite> Corydon76: He also apparently got dropped back in school, so now instead of him being a Freshman, he's back in the Jr. High school with my son.   We've already told our son to let us know of any interactions.
07:55 <@Dolemite> My wife does a lot with the schools and has lots of favors stacked up
07:55 <@Dolemite> I don't see them interacting since my son is in all honors classes and, well, the other boy is supposed to be 2 years ahead of him.
07:55 <@Dolemite> So the other boy is 15
07:55 < aestetix> wait, the other boy was held back twice?
07:56 <@Dolemite> That's what it sounds like
07:56 < aestetix> That's never a good sign
07:56 <@Dolemite> Probably not all at once
07:56 <@Dolemite> ok, I gotta run.  Meetings.
07:56 < aestetix> run for 2020
07:56 <@Corydon76> An interesting link that came up in my feed was angelsense.com
08:00 <@Corydon76> Basically, person-tracking for parents.  Could also be helpful for adults with parents with dementia, kids under an imminent threat that won't be taken seriously by law enforcement...
08:04 < aestetix> Sounds like an episode of Black Mirror
08:05 <@Corydon76> While I agree that the technology has the potential for abuse, I also see the value in having it available for parents who have legitimate concerns for their children's safety.
09:03 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG-Cp1y0UO8&feature=youtu.be
09:03 < PigBot> Al Gore Weighs In on ManBearPig | The Daily Show (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/y74c55k6
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15:49 < ware> Dolemite: BEAT THAT KIDS ASS!
15:49 < ware> sounds like he daddy doesnt
19:14 <@Shadow404> http://www.snsweather.com/ware_final.jpg
19:14 < PigBot> None (at www.snsweather.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycmj5o9x
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23:19 < K`Tetch_> wow, Dolemite - that sucks. I also know that in the UK that wouldn't have happened. I don't know how the US handles it, but in the UK, a scouting thing is kept in the scouting thing, and it'd have gone to the district or county commissioner
23:19 < K`Tetch_> (my dad was a group leader, I got my wood badge at 20)
23:20 < K`Tetch_> also, Bush snr died a few hours ago
--- Log closed Sat Dec 01 00:00:29 2018