--- Log opened Tue Nov 13 00:00:02 2018
05:08 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
05:11 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:21 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez.
08:21  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
09:10 <@oddball> Dolemite: Just read about your issues with the Boy Scouts.  That really sucks.
09:10 < aestetix> what issue?
09:11 <@oddball> Short of it is local internal politics has made him and his family leave the scouts.
09:11 <@Dolemite> No, they made us leave that pack.
09:12 < aestetix> that sucks
09:12 <@Dolemite> The Council folks were very quick to let me know that they tought the charter org was being boneheaded and stupid about the whole thing.
09:12 <@Dolemite> They also let me know that they will find us another home because there are a lot of units that need help.
09:13 <@oddball> And I know you've invested a lot of yourself in the scouts through the years.
09:13 <@oddball> That's good to hear.
09:14 <@Dolemite> aestetix: So my son was bullied and threatened in the Troop (boys 11-18) over the summer.   We didn't feel safe, so we chose not to return him to that environment.   The troop leaders were butthurt that we didn't come back and felt that it was bad optics that the Cubmaster for the Pack (age 6-11 boys and girls) didn't have his son in the Troop.
09:14 <@Dolemite> They kept getting asked why that was the case
09:14 <@Dolemite> Instead of owning up to screwing up and not keeping a safe environment, they chose to push me out
09:15 <@Dolemite> So congratuations, people won't be asking why the Cubmaster's son is no longer in the troop
09:15 <@Dolemite> Instead, they're going to be asking why they kicked a 9 year old girl out of the pack.
09:17 < aestetix> Dolemite: wow, I'm really sorry to hear that
09:18 <@Dolemite> I don't blame the BSA.   The way it is structured, they are simply franchising locations to each charter (typically a church).   The charter has ultimate say over who can be a member or leader.
09:18 <@Dolemite> It's a double edged sword, though.   People do shitty things in the name of BSA and there's little the BSA can do in repercussion.
09:18 <@oddball> yep
09:19 <@Dolemite> The good part, though, is that there's no forcing one charter's values on another.
09:19 < aestetix> That *is* good
09:19 < aestetix> Too much of that crap going on these days
09:19 <@oddball> I guess if things get really bad, they can revoke the charter, but that would be a shit storm itself.
09:19 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: sounds like the next possible action, if you're so inclined, would be to involve the media.  They'll get some optics.
09:20 <@Dolemite> The whole reason why the flap over gays and girls being allowed was ignorant rantings of people not involved - if a church wants to be boy only, go ahead.   If they want to be girl only, go ahead.   Matter of fact, you could even create a trans only unit.   It's your call.
09:20 <@Dolemite> Corydon76: I'm not going to escalate it to that level.   The unit will likely fold and the troop will have no new scouts to come in.   I think the whole intent was sabotage, anyway.
09:21 <@Corydon76> Oh... wow, some people are really fucked in the head if that was the intent
09:21 <@Dolemite> The troop has no interest in recruiting and they just burned the bridge with the pack.
09:22 <@oddball> And going to the media over it would pretty much guarantee that he and his family was done with the scouts.
09:22 <@Dolemite> I would regularly have people move over to our pack throughout the year because we had built up a reputation as a close knit pack that did a lot of things.
09:22 <@Corydon76> Well, whereever you go now in terms of a pack will be the next big pack, I suspect
09:23 <@oddball> I'm really glad to hear that you're going to get involved with another pack.  Your post made it sound like you guys were done.
09:23 <@Dolemite> With my firing last night, the Committee Chair has already quit, and the co-treasurers are getting ready to.   The assistant Cubmasters both declared last night that there was no way they were taking over.
09:23 <@Dolemite> I don't know that the unit will be able to recharter in December at this point.
09:23 <@oddball> damn
09:23 <@Dolemite> Well, we may get involved with another pack.   I'm going to chill for the next 2 weeks.
09:24 <@oddball> Sounds like a decent plan.
09:24 <@Corydon76> Sounds like someone shot themselves in the face for spite
09:24 <@Dolemite> I've had other parents telling me to let them know where we go, because they are following
09:24 <@Dolemite> Yes, they cut off their nose to spite their face
09:25 <@Evilpig> it's pretty dumb to get rid of people that are actually involved and put int he effort to make things happen
09:25 <@Dolemite> Certainly not what you'd typically expect from an Episcopal church - for those not as well informed, they are at the far left end of the spectrum
09:26 <@Corydon76> Yeah, but if it's the troop that controls the pack, then that's a lopsided power structure, especially since, in my experience, the packs were always more well-attended than troops
09:26 <@Dolemite> absolutely, the pack was double the size of the troop
09:26 <@oddball> Oh, this sounds like a decision from bone heads with ego problems.  Those people exist across the political spectrum.
09:26 <@Dolemite> but the charter rep was more familiar with troops and didn't really understand packs as well.   His son is one of the Asst. Scoutmasters in the troop.   You see where this is going.
09:26 <@Corydon76> When I was in Cub Scouts / Boy Scouts, the pack was on the order of 50-100 kids, while the troop was maybe 10 kids.
09:27 <@Corydon76> At one point, I was the only person showing up to troop meetings
09:27 <@Corydon76> only kid, I should say
09:27 <@Corydon76> Talk about lopsided, when the adults outnumber the kids...
09:28 < aestetix> Corydon76: that's sort of .... at a certain point you can't call it boy scouts anymore
09:28 <@oddball> Corydon76: Yeah, that matches my experience.  I left the scouts because my pack pretty much disintigrated when I was making the transition from cub scout to boy scout.
09:29 <@Corydon76> aestetix: well, and the troop used to be one of the powerhouses of the council.  We had Quabosco, which was both a camp in its own right, as well as the largest campsite at the Scout Reservation
09:29 <@Corydon76> Quabosco is not an Indian word, but a contraction of QUAkertown BOy SCOuts.
09:30 <@Corydon76> All of the other campsites, as far as I'm aware, were all Indian words
10:01 < dasunt> Do most people in the US buy a new car at least once in their lives?
10:02 <@Corydon76> Probably.  I have.
10:02 <@Corydon76> Given how crappy most of the vehicles seem to be, SOMEONE has to be buying them new.
10:03 <@Corydon76> Both of my Beetles were bought new (2002 & 2006).  Since then, I've only bought used.  First car was also used.
10:04 <@Evilpig> okay that's freaky.  I just force killed iterm2 and the reopened it a minute later and all my windows popped back up, and this ssh session with screen is still intact.
10:06 <@Corydon76> Heh
10:06 < dasunt> I've never bought a new vehicle in my life, so it seems weird.
10:06 <@Corydon76> Not all that surprising when you realize that many of the Mac apps are just GUI wrappers around command line processes
10:07 <@oddball> dasunt: I haven't yet, and probably never will.
10:07 <@oddball> But I'm also allergic to car payments, so...
10:08 < dasunt> So am I.
10:09 < dasunt> I was trying to figure this out though - average car is what, 12 years old?
10:10 < dasunt> Say the lifespan of a typical car is 20 years old.  First owner buys it new, keeps it for X number of years, then sells it.  Each subsequent owner does the same.  Guestimate 5 - 7 years of ownership per owner, and that's 1 new car being owned every 2 - 3 used cars on the road.
10:11 < dasunt> So hypothetically, only something like 25% to 30% of the population could be buying new, and everyone else could be buying used (using the guestimated numbers)
10:13 <@rhia> https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/18/17/2AA447EC00000578-3166462-image-a-16_1437237929456.jpg
10:13 < PigBot> None (at i.dailymail.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/y9zz3qzv
10:15 < dasunt> Calif?
10:15 <@Corydon76> dasunt: A number of economically disadvantaged people have a dream to someday purchase a new vehicle.  Whether that changes how often they're bought, I don't know, but I do know the aspiration exists.
10:15 <@rhia> dasunt, you're thinking logically again
10:15 <@rhia> and forgetting just how fricking consumerist 'Murikans are
10:16 <@oddball> Hell, with the cost of new cars these days, most middle class folks can't afford new cars.  They'll buy them anyways, but they can't really afford them.
10:16 <@rhia> (yeah, image from cali )
10:16 <@oddball> I know folks that think that any car over 3 years old is shit that will break down any moment.
10:17 <@rhia> oddball, if you're not eyeballs deep in debt for new crap to impress the neighbors, you're not doing American right
10:17 <@Evilpig> I bought a newish car
10:18 <@Evilpig> fuck my neighbors, it's fancy.  and it makes the great fireball in the sky make me all red in nice weather
10:18 <@Corydon76> oddball: A number of people neglect preventive maintenance, so that may not be far off.
10:18 < dasunt> Well, thought the other way - even at keeping each vehicle 7 years, and assuming about 50 years of driving time, if the average random person bought used 90% of the time, odds are they'd buy a new vehicle at least once.
10:18 <@Corydon76> If you bought a new car and failed to change the oil in the first 3 years, how much damage are you doing to the vehicle each time it's driven?
10:18 < dasunt> Corydon76: I would say at least five metric shit tons.
10:19 <@oddball> Honestly?  With modern cars?  Not as much as you'd think.  Not saying that I would recommend it...
10:19 < dasunt> What's the recommended first oil change on a new car?
10:19 <@Corydon76> Depends upon the make, but generally 10k-15k
10:19 <@Evilpig> not sure but my last oil change at ford they set the milage at 5k or 6 months
10:20 <@Corydon76> 5k is based upon 80s standards.  3k is based upon 60s standards.
10:20 <@Corydon76> But some manufacturers have admitted that you're probably fine not changing the first for 50k
10:20 <@Evilpig> I don't think i've even driven that car 1000 miles over the last three months
10:21 < dasunt> Corydon76: You sure it's so high?
10:21 <@Evilpig> since we had the first freeze the other morning I should probably get the cover put on it for the winter
10:21 <@Corydon76> dasunt: I think it's higher, actually
10:22 < dasunt> I'm talking first oil change, not the oil change interval
10:22 <@Corydon76> Once the engine is older, changing oil regularly becomes more critical, as parts and fittings get looser
10:23 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I change the oil in my 210K+ mileage minivan every 3-5k miles
10:23 < dasunt> Because AFAIK, a new engine needs an oil change done prety soon (way sooner than normal) to remove the metal that grinds off the engine as the parts fit together.
10:23 <@Corydon76> Remember that manufacturers choose intervals based upon what's unlikely to do any damage, and then consider that they're probably working in a hefty safety margin
10:24 <@Dolemite> The last time I bought a new vehicle, I was told to get the first oil change at 1K miles
10:24 <@rhia> or are hoping on accelerating planned obsolescence to sell more vehicles every 36 to 60 months
10:25 <@Corydon76> rhia: While the cynic in me says that's possible, the legal analyst in me sees that companies are lawsuit averse
10:25 <@Evilpig> can't sell a new vehicle every 60 months when crazy people are financing them for 72
10:26 < dasunt> Huh.  Okay, looking up a bog standard Honda Civic, looks like the oil light comes on around 7,500 for the first time.
10:26 <@Corydon76> VWs have the maintenance light come on at 10k since the last reset
10:26 < dasunt> That seems really weird to me, but maybe new cars do some break in at the factory?
10:26 <@rhia> Evilpig, but you can make those last 12 out of warranty months uncomfortable enough that they really want a new car - many times often enough to trade it in before payoff and roll the debt into the new loan
10:41 <@oddball> dasunt: The manufacturing process of modern cars is *significantly* better than older cars.  Tolerances can be a lot tighter, etc.  The breaking in period isn't what it used to be.
10:42 <@oddball> It's also why modern cars are lasting a lot longer and are putting out more power with same sized or smaller engines.
10:43 < aestetix> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46188790
10:43 < PigBot> Brexit: Theresa May calls special cabinet meeting - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/yboyyvov
10:45 < dasunt> oddball: But the breaking in period on an older vehicle is just the piston rings "polishing" the cylinder, etc.
10:46 < dasunt> That's why when an engine is rebuilt, you have to rough up the cylinder walls with a hone and put in new rings.  The new rings break in the cylinder.
10:46 < dasunt> So unless something has significantly changed, I'd imagine that's still an issue.  But maybe they do that at the factory or something?
10:47 <@oddball> Yep.  They plasma coat the cylinders at the factory now.
10:47 < dasunt> Or that filter technology is good enough that metal bits in the oil are captured?
10:48 < dasunt> Does plasma coating remove the need for the piton rings to seat?
10:49 <@oddball> There's still some of that going on, but there's significantly less wear in time needed.  Everything is much closer to "correct" from the start.
10:50 < dasunt> That's what I wonder about, because I think even my old engines have specs within thousandths of an inch.
10:50 <@oddball> I've also heard engineers geek out about how much more perfectly round they can make cylinders now, etc.
10:52 <@oddball> The specs these days are a *lot* tighter than they used to be.
10:52 < aestetix> so
10:53 < aestetix> I go to the visa office next week to get my visa renewal
10:53 < aestetix> I really hope the Brexit stuff doesn't fuck with me
10:53 < dasunt> I know this came up on a forum I was on, where someone wanted to use a bearing that was .002" off from spec, and everyone was saying it would be a horrible idea due to engine oil pressure, leakage, etc.
10:53 < aestetix> I know someone else who is living here visa free because they are married to a UK citizen.
10:53 < aestetix> Life is about to get very complicated for them
10:53 < dasunt> And that was on an engine that was nearly 40 years old.
10:54 <@oddball> Yes.  And things have gotten a hell of a lot more precise in 40 years.
10:55 <@oddball> aestetix: Good news is you're not married to someone from England?
10:56 < aestetix> Well yes.
10:56 < aestetix> But still
10:56 < aestetix> Who knows, maybe there is some "fuck you berlin" provision in the Brexit agreement somewhere.
10:56 < aestetix> Spain is already dealing with lots of drama because of Gibralter
10:57 < dasunt> Gibralter should just split off from the UK at this point.
10:57 <@oddball> I've just been enjoying the UK desperately trying to figure out how to ignore its people saying that they want out of the EU.
10:58 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ddomlbwkcpzxmyle] has joined #se2600
10:59 < dasunt> It's great.  The UK pols know that severing all ties with the EU at brexit is political suicide.  They also know not getting out of the EU may be political suicide.
11:03 < dasunt> Also, the whole unanimous agreement of all 27 EU countries to extend the deadline is likely never going to happen.
11:09 < dasunt> So what are the odds that the UK will want back in to the EU within 20 years?
11:32 <@rhia> about 50/50 like they are now? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45520517
11:32 < PigBot> What British people think about Brexit now - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/y82nka48
11:34 <@rhia> https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/
11:34 < PigBot> If there was a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote? (Eurotrack) – What UK Thinks: EU (at whatukthinks.org) http://tinyurl.com/yd4trjud
11:48 <@Corydon76> Mirage: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/google-services-unreachable-after-traffic-hijacking/
11:48 < PigBot> Google Services Unreachable After Traffic Hijacking (at www.bleepingcomputer.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb4al526
12:07 < Synx_hm> whelp got a call in 15min about the socali job, had an interview on friday
12:09 < Synx_hm> how do i convince my wife its a good idea to packup and move half way across the country
12:09 < Synx_hm> aside from we need income
12:11 <@Mirage> being able to eat is a pretty strong persuasive factor
12:11 < Synx_hm> i think im going to vomit
12:11 < Synx_hm> but ya
12:12 < Synx_hm> im terrified they are going to offer some insane salary i cant say no to like 300K a year (obviously this isn't going to happen but my panic is setting in hard)
12:12 < Synx_hm> or 20K
12:12 < Synx_hm> ha
12:12 <@Dolemite> $36K contract to hire
12:12 < Synx_hm> ya hahaha
12:12 <@Dolemite> No relo
12:12 < Synx_hm> haha
12:14 < Synx_hm> im looking around this house all the shit id have to do to get it ready to sell, im going to vomit for sure probably either way this call goes
12:15 < Synx_hm> dig a trench my brain said, build a retraining wall my brain said
12:15 <@Dolemite> Did you get that vasectomy?   I mean, you could always sell a child.
12:15 < Synx_hm> i did that ship has sailed unless i want to sell one of the two i already have
12:16 <@Dolemite> Well they'd probably be worth more than an infant...
12:16 < Synx_hm> i had my liver imaged yesterday i guess if its as good looking as my dr thinks by wanting to have it imaged i could sell that
12:17 < Synx_hm> the ultrasound tech did say my gallbladder was good looking so there is that
12:17 <@Dolemite> Well...    they could always be imaging it for study reference before it deteriorates further.   Just saying.
12:17 <@Dolemite> That's the spirit!
12:17 < Synx_hm> haha
12:17 <@Dolemite> How'd your shoulder appointment go?
12:18 < Synx_hm> i canceled it, it actually got much better a few days later so i decided to forgo the injection
12:18 < Synx_hm> my luck; i am going to get a 500K per year offer from this company and find out in two hours that i have 3 weeks to live on account of my liver
12:18 < Synx_hm> then my shoulder is going to fall off
12:19 < Synx_hm> in other news, how many times do you think you should have to email somebody with your full signature in the email before they realize your name is not bill?
12:20 < Synx_hm> i think they are calling me bill out of principle now to see if i call them out on it
12:20 <@Dolemite> Until you call them out - infinite times
12:21 < Synx_hm> its probably part of the hiring process, test to see if i call them out
12:21 < Synx_hm> fuck
12:21 < Synx_hm> its the guy who forwarded my info to the hiring mgr, everybody else knows my name is brad not bill but this one guy is holding out
12:22 <@Dolemite> When I was in college at TN Tech, I was interviewing for a co-op job.   They set up travel and made me an offer before they bothered to read my resume and see that I was a Comp Sci major instead of Electrical Engineering.   They then rescinded the offer.
12:23 <@Dolemite> I had originally been an EE major at UT Chattanooga, but was only there for 2 years, which was clearly stated on my resume.
12:25 < Synx_hm> hahaha thats fucked, how does somebody go about making an offer before even checking if you fit for the job
12:25 < Synx_hm> thats comical
12:25 <@Dolemite> They had walked around with me all day and I knew what I was talking about
12:25 <@Dolemite> However, they only hired EE and ME majors
12:26 < Synx_hm> oh so you aced an interview, thats fucked
12:26 <@Dolemite> So.   They still had to pay for my travel and expenses, but damn, what a waste of time.
12:26 <@Mirage> Dolemite: but didn't you major in harry potter?
12:26 <@Dolemite> Mirage: Eventually, at Belmont.   Harry Potter, LotR, and Star Trek.
12:29 -!- K4k [elw@unaffiliated/k4k] has joined #se2600
13:07 < Synx_hm> oh the phone, literally about to vomit jesus why am i so nervous
13:16 <@Mirage> Synx_hm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SKdN1xQBjk
13:16 < PigBot> Family Guy: Ipecac Drinking Contest (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/p792923
13:42 < Synx_hm> haha i love that ep
13:44 < Synx_hm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vS4UWZ0nQ
13:44 < PigBot> Man Drinks Ipecac (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ohzuvgq
13:47 < Synx_hm> ok i forgot how nasty that was
13:47 < Synx_hm> dont watch that
14:29 < dasunt> Thoughts on DKIM?
14:32 <@Dolemite> Alone, it's not useful.   Combined with SPF and then used in conjunction with a DMARC policy, it's very good for managing sender reputation.
14:39 < dasunt> Oh, that's okay, nobody here knows if we're using it or not.
14:39  * dasunt rolls his eyes.
15:04  * dasunt ponders alcoholism.
15:05 <@Evilpig> that's now how it's done
15:25 <@Evilpig> Dagmar: have you used any flush mount usb connectors for anything?
15:26 <@Evilpig> got a project i'm tinkering with and looking for suggestions.  https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Leader-Panel-Mount-Type-Female/dp/B00UGLOFR2/
15:26 < PigBot> Amazon.com: Cable Leader 1ft USB 3.0 Panel-Mount Type A Male to Type A Female Cable: Computers & Accessories (at www.amazon.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8yju29m
15:28 <@Mirage> I have a similar one in my ESXi box, though it plugged into the USB header instead of just being an extension
15:37 <@Evilpig> that radio I got ashley has usb on the back of the unit but has what appears to be plenty of dead space in front
15:37 <@Evilpig> https://static.seicane.com/media/wysiwyg/32/321057/1-in-dash-gps-stereo-S32712G_23.jpg
15:37 < PigBot> None (at static.seicane.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7av9csq
15:37 <@Evilpig> thinking that I can run an extension easily to the faceplace with some careful cutting, gluing, and screwing
15:52 < dasunt> There's a laptop labeled "The one that doesn't work" in the pile of broken hardware I have.
15:52 < dasunt> What a useful note.
16:05 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:06 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
16:18 -!- jilt_ [jilt@failure.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:19 -!- robogoat [~robogoat@163.172.136.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:32 -!- jilt_ [jilt@failure.org] has joined #se2600
16:37 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
16:40 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
17:18 -!- robogoat [~robogoat@163.172.136.88] has joined #se2600
17:26 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urksjudfyuujiksn] has joined #se2600
20:17 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urksjudfyuujiksn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
--- Log closed Wed Nov 14 00:00:03 2018