--- Log opened Mon Oct 08 00:00:08 2018
01:06 < aestetix> so I have a theory
01:07 < aestetix> I'm wondering how much the godawful sexism issues in tech, especially in the bay area, are due to ageism
01:07 < aestetix> Mostly these 20something guys not having a father-like manager to tell them to knock it off
01:35 < dfused> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/climate/ipcc-climate-report-2040.html
01:35 < PigBot> Major Climate Report Describes a Strong Risk of Crisis as Early as 2040 - The New York Times (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8ue4lb3
01:35 < dfused> i think I need to buy a sailboat
03:11 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Mainly it takes a few responsible adults to keep people in check
03:12 <@Dagmar> I used to get a little irked with the guys at Vandy we'd we go out to lunch and they'd make catty comments about the waitresses
03:12 <@Dagmar> I'm like, jesus guys what's wrong with you.  You're fucking married and you act like savages when you see a pretty girl
03:12 <@Dagmar> ...and yes, i'd call them on their ungentlemanlike behaviour
03:31 < aestetix> sure
03:31 < aestetix> It's just... the stories I read about what has happened at Uber, Airbnb, and a few other tech companies, tells me there are basically no adults at these companies
03:32 < aestetix> I mean seriously. The one writeup from a woman who said on her first day, she got a message from a coworker asking if she wanted to join him and his wife for a threesome.
03:32 < aestetix> Who the hell thinks that's ok to send
03:33 < aestetix> I mean that's the kind of thing where you put the guy on janitorial duty for a week, and probation for a month, and if he does it again, insta-fired
03:33 < aestetix> If you're nice.
03:34 < aestetix> "I don't give a shit how good your code is. You treat someone like that, you're scrubbing toilets for a week. You do it again, you're fired."
04:12 <@Mirage> Damn, I missed out on the new Doctor discussions.
04:13 <@Mirage> The first time watching I didn't like the episode as a whole very much.  Not too impressed by her either.
04:19 <@Mirage> Rewatching it after the wife got home from work it struck me that she really reminded me of Eccleston in how she was playing it...especially the inflections in dialogue
06:27 <@Evilpig> speaking of tennant. https://nerdist.com/good-omens-trailer-michael-sheen-david-tennant/
06:27 < PigBot> GOOD OMENS Trailer Teams Up Angel Michael Sheen and Demon David Tennant | Nerdist (at nerdist.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7qzfs5o
06:29 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:36  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
09:04 < aestetix> Dagmar: https://blog.mozilla.org/inclusion/2018/10/02/words-matter-moving-beyond-meritocracy/
09:04 < PigBot> Words Matter – Moving Beyond “Meritocracy” – Mozilla Stands for Inclusion (at blog.mozilla.org) http://tinyurl.com/ybutpsez
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10:36 <@Dolemite> wow, just got my first chronic pain spam call...   they are now spoofing Department of Energy phone numbers.
10:38 <@Mirage> Good luck reporting to your carrier that a SPAM caller is masquerading Gov't phone numbers
10:38 <@Dolemite> he
10:38 <@Dolemite> er, hehe
10:39 <@Dolemite> I'm turning it into Cyber and letting them worry about it
10:46 <@Evilpig> When I got the last one I played nice up til I got a real person and asked what company she was calling from and she hung up
10:47 < xray> I've had similar results.
10:47 <@Dolemite> So not the same call when you told her that the pain was in your ass?
10:47 < xray> They always hang up on me
10:47 <@Evilpig> nope.  they've called a few times 
10:47 < aestetix> do you get a recording or a person?
10:48 < xray> a person
10:48 < aestetix> because you could go into really, really graphic detail with them about your anal warts
10:48 < xray> recording at first but I press a number to get a person
10:49 < aestetix> reminds me of an old trick years ago when I worked as a telemarketer
10:49  * rhia wonders if she's the only one who saw the Doctor's new outfit and thought of Mork (striped shirt, baggy pants, suspenders...)
10:49 <@Mirage> Maybe some good will come of it...when/if they start hitting FCC personnel with spoofed Gov't phone numbers they might actually see the light and remove whatever loophole in the privacy stuff that cell carriers are using to not give a shit and replace it with something that forces them to take responsibility for tracking down the offenders and contacting law enforcment when customers report calls.
10:49 < aestetix> at least at that time, telemarketers were not allowed to hang up on people
10:50 < aestetix> so what you could do.... was answer the phone, say hi, and "I'll be right back" and just leave it off the hook for 30 minutes
10:50 < aestetix> and the telemarketer legally couldn't do anything
10:51 < aestetix> If they were your typical layabout they wouldn't care. But if they were a high performer who got paid off commissions.... oh man did that piss them off
10:51 <@Mirage> rhia: thanks for that...now that will always taint my opinion of the new doctor
10:52 < dasunt> This is the doctor that's a woman which supposedly has a huge pushback from fans online, right?
10:53 <@rhia> Mirage, sharing the pain
10:53 <@Mirage> aestetix: i don't think that people working for a company who spoof other numbers instead of using their own and hang up when asked for the name of their company (or just about any other identifying information) are likely to follow any kind of rules other than completing their call objective on as many gullible idiots as possible
10:53 <@Mirage> rhia: did you see my comment about her reminding me of Eccelston?
10:53 <@rhia> she threw back the dressing room curtains and I yelped "Mork!" - if it helps, Drag0n cut me a side eye as well
10:54 <@rhia> yeah, she kinda does
10:55 <@Mirage> my wife punched me when she asked "what do you think that thing is" in regard to the object that appeared in the woods and I said "a giant hershey's kiss of course"
10:55 < dasunt> So I'm looking at Mork's outfit and it seems that they both wear suspenders.
10:55 <@rhia> eh, striped shirt was common, 80's baggy pants, suspenders ...
10:55 < dasunt> Mork's not wearing a striped shirt always.
10:56 < dfused> damn kids and their google images... I was THERE... lol
10:56 <@Mirage> was Mork and Mindy 80's?   I thought it was late 70's
10:56 < dasunt> Also, as a straight guy, I'm unaware that pants come in different styles.  ;)
10:56 <@rhia> same difference, zoot-suit level baggyness
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10:58 < dfused> lies... @dasunt ... I'm sure you're well aware about jeans and boot cut , straight leg, etc
10:59 < dfused> also to think that a straight guy cant be fasionable. horse shit.
10:59 < dasunt> dfused: Vaguely aware of them.
11:00 < xray> doesn't fashionable == slave to public opinion?
11:00 < xray> I'm all about funtional
11:00 < dasunt> Literally the way I buy jeans is making sure they are flexible enough that I can bicycle in them.
11:00 < xray> functional
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11:00 < dasunt> Also, I am aware of pleats and think they are ugly in dress pants.
11:00 < xray> and don't split when you squat
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11:00 < dfused> @xray .. can be. but I prefer to think of it as appropriate battle armor to successfully pass off as sane and promotable amongst the masses. they dont need to know I'm bat shit crazy.
11:01 < dasunt> Right now, I'm wearing gap jeans and I couldn't tell you if they were boot cut or athletic fit or whatever.
11:01 < dfused> lol
11:01 <@rhia> dfused, one of the aftershow comments irritated me and made me feel old -- something about how having the new doctor trying on clothes was so NEW and so FEMALE -- UGH
11:01 <@rhia> Classic Who covered his extensive closet (wardrobe) numerous times, and even modern Who had regeneration show scenes of picking out the new clothes.
11:01 <@rhia> And that woman called herself a huge Whovian - pfft
11:01 < xray> Oh I totally get camouflage, it is very functional
11:01 < dasunt> And the only reason I have the gap jeans is that the thrift store wanted $15 for jeans that were stained, had holes, visible wear, or were otherwise not workplace presentable.
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11:02 < dfused> @rhia thats such crap. thats forcing their already buitl opnions around what they are seeing.
11:03 < xray> As for Dr. Who. If the writing sucks the show sucks. The rest is noise.
11:03 < dasunt> OTOH, I will say that suspenders > belts.  I do wish suspenders were more popular since I have no idea about the rules for wearing them.
11:04 <@rhia> rules?
11:04 < dasunt> I presume normal people have random rules for this shit.
11:04 < dfused> i never had to wear suspenders. but i did have to wear those horrible vest jackets ala denver style.. in even worse earth tones.
11:04 < xray> There are rules? I thought the whole idea of hipster was to make the rules, not follow them.
11:05 < dasunt> Like in a professional environment.
11:06 <@Mirage> rhia:  I think they had wardrobe scenes for at least Tennent and Smith.   I don't recall anything for Capaldi...but I never really liked him anyway. (sorry oddball)
11:06 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I wasn't much of a Capaldi fan, either
11:07 <@rhia> Mirage, yeah, and both Bakers, etc had wardrobe scenes but somehow this new Doctor the _SAME SCENE IDEA_ is all of a sudden NEW and all girly or some such - bah
11:07 < dfused> thats ageism shame on you... *grin*
11:07 <@Mirage> Of course I'm sure the comment was made for the benefit of the millenials who don't rememeber anything past last season...maybe
11:09 <@Mirage> dfused: what's agism?  me bashing millenials, Dolemite and I not liking Capaldi, or something else?
11:09 < dfused> not liking capaldi
11:09 <@rhia> even Pertwee had a version of the regeneration wardrobe change scene
11:09 < dfused> was just joking.... the dudes face just creeps me out.
11:09 <@Dolemite> dfused: What, because he's barely older than me?
11:09 <@Mirage> I didn't like Eccelston much either..
11:09 <@rhia> Capaldi grew on me, like him more than Matt Smith
11:09 < dfused> @Dolemite even old ppl like you can be ageist
11:09 <@Dolemite> GET OFF MY LAWN!#%@!@#!@#
11:09 < dfused> lmao
11:10 <@rhia> but not as much as Pertwee, Tom Baker, or Tennant
11:10 < dfused> do you know how much I worked on that shit to get it nice n full n green... bunch of jackasses, stomping all over it like you own the joint
11:10 <@rhia> Mirage, that might be because Eccelston didn't really fully embrace being The Doctor
11:11 < dasunt> I should watch more Dr. Who.  Only seen one episode with Capaldi, but I've also seen him in other BritTV stuff.
11:11 <@Mirage> New Doctors by my ranking would be 1) Tennent, 2) Smith, 3) Eccelston, 4) Capaldi.   Whittaker remains to be seen.   Excluding Hurt because he wasn't a regular Doctor.
11:12 <@rhia> otoh, Tennant dreamed of being the Doctor since the Classic Who days and he jumped into the role full force
11:12 < dfused> @rhia thats very true
11:13 <@Mirage> dasunt: I haven't seen anything with Capaldi in it that I really liked.
11:13 <@Mirage> Ignoring "Fires of Pompeii" as he had a relatively minor role
11:14 <@rhia> Capaldi also had a part in the Torchwood mini-series "Children of Earth"
11:14 <@rhia> Torchwood being Who-adjacent
11:14 <@Mirage> Those mini-series ruined torchwood
11:14 <@Mirage> IMO
11:15 <@rhia> well, the idea was to kill off the series, they did accomplish that
11:15 < dfused> meanwhile... Tom Hardy.  that guy has soe much swagger its insane.
11:15 <@Dolemite> I was quite pleased with Venom
11:16 < dfused> i havent seen it yet as I very rarly go to theaters ...
11:16 <@Mirage> I have almost no desire to see venom
11:16 <@Dolemite> It was much better than I expected
11:17 <@Mirage> Unless there is a Marvel's "Secret Wars" movie and a Spiderman movie preceeding it where they show the correct origin of the suit, then the whole thing is just bullshit
11:17 < dfused> ill def have to watch it when it hits like fandango or netflix
11:17 <@rhia> dfused, same
11:18 <@rhia> not really feeling the need to go mingle with germ ridden peeps and overpriced everything to see Venom
11:18 <@rhia> oh, did i type that out loud? my bad
11:19 < dfused> lol ppl are awful
11:20 < dfused> especially that Dolemite guy ...coming in here all the time expecting hugs all teh time like a creeper
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11:26 <@Mirage> yay, the 360 emails from over the weekend (since Fri about midnight) are finally all caught up...
11:27 <@Mirage> Maybe I can finally start getting something else done.
11:29 < dasunt> Mirage: He was good in the episode of "Comic Strip" he starred in.  Played a paranoid husband convinced his wife was cheating on him.
11:30 <@Evilpig> wtf...
11:30 <@Evilpig> https://www.dropbox.com/s/k25g1i2ryscaxez/Screenshot%202018-10-08%2011.29.51.png?dl=0
11:30 < PigBot> Dropbox - Screenshot 2018-10-08 11.29.51.png (at www.dropbox.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7rk66vq
11:30 <@Evilpig> robodialer gone wild?
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12:50 < xray> https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/08/google-reportedly-exposed-data-for-hundreds-of-thousands-of-user/
12:50 < PigBot> Google exposed data for hundreds of thousands of users (at www.engadget.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7qm2gku
12:50 < xray> And they didn't report it
12:50 <@Dolemite> Nobody does until they are exposed.   Don't you know how this works?
12:51 < xray> Lets see what GDPR does with this
12:52 <@Dagmar> Why should they care
12:52 < xray> which, Google or GDPR?
12:53 <@Dagmar> Europe's prosecutors
12:53 <@Dagmar> 1. It wasn't deliberate, it was a bug
12:53 < xray> under GDPR any breach involving EU citizen data must be reported within 72 hours or $$$$$$$$$
12:54 <@Dagmar> 2. "And an internal memo noted that while there wasn't any evidence of misuse on behalf of developers, there wasn't a way to know for sure whether any misuse took place."
12:54 < xray> They knowingly didn't report it. That is the issue
12:54 <@Dagmar> On the other hand, Facebook is still attempting to censor anyone talking about their rather massive 50+ million users breach
12:54 <@Dagmar> xray: Why should they report a non-event
12:55 < xray> The breach law doesn't have a data use requierment
12:55 < xray> If the data was exposed then by definition it is a breach
12:55 <@Dagmar> No, it is not
12:55 <@Dagmar> Just becuse something was available doesn't mean it was accessed
12:56 <@Dagmar> ...and this is 500,000 versus 50,000,000
12:56 < xray> But you have to prove no access
12:56 < xray> not say you can't determine if it was accessed.
12:56 <@Dagmar> That's not the way the law works in any country
12:57 < xray> Works that way with FERPA data
12:57 <@Dagmar> There has to be proof that something took place
12:58 < xray> I've had to report that someone got a user id and password that allowed access even though I had not evidence that they accessed any files
12:59 <@Dagmar> Well, I feel comfortable knowing that should things be interpreted in this way by auditors, absolutely no one will be able to do business in Europe anymore
12:59 < xray> I was told quite pointedly that if they "could" have access that it MUST be reported as a breach. And we did.
13:00 <@Dagmar> That was your office
13:00 < xray> It will be interesting how this takes shape in the media
13:00 < xray> Not that they have a clue of what is laweful
13:01 < xray> is that spelled right?
13:01 < xray> Nope not spelled right
13:02 <@Dagmar> "The media", such that it is, will hail this as Armageddon, Google forcibly sodomizing Mother Theresa's corpse, a non-issue, and the work of communist sympathizers, depending on which demographic they want the most mouse-clicks from today
13:02 <@Dagmar> I'm sure there will be quite a number of dancing monkeys drummed into service
13:02 < xray> LoL - which is sad that it is true
13:02 <@Dagmar> So, fuck "the media" and what they think
13:03 <@Dagmar> It took them half a fucking decade to shut the fuck up about Google supposedly sniffing everyone's traffic, and half of that was driven by PR firms
13:04 < xray> Unfortunately SCOTUS refused the case so as of now it is illegal to sniff open WiFi depending on what prosecutor you get
13:05 <@Dagmar> Where did that precedent get set?
13:05 < xray> Despite decades of case law that clearly says it is legal to sniff open traffic
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13:05 < xray> Hold a second I'll pull the court cases
13:05 <@Dagmar> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/technology/facebook-hack-data-breach.html
13:05 < PigBot> Facebook Security Breach Exposes Accounts of 50 Million Users - The New York Times (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb9sn8hb
13:05 <@brimstone> but it doesn't say "sniffed wifi" on my calendar
13:05 <@Dagmar> If Google is even in trouble for 500,000 accounts, Facebook is *done*
13:07 < xray> This ruled that Googles sniffing of open WiFi is a violation of wiretap law https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=7105365358640684775
13:07 < PigBot> In Re Google Inc. Street View Electronic Comm., 794 F. Supp. 2d 1067 - Dist. Court, ND California 2011 - Google Scholar (at scholar.google.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycz8ytvo
13:08 < xray> This ruled that it is not wiretapping http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-12-592A1.pdf
13:08 < PigBot> None (at hraunfoss.fcc.gov) http://tinyurl.com/y7egepzt
13:09 < xray> This to rules that it is not wiretapping http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16680089225036893693
13:09 < PigBot> In re Innovatio IP Ventures, LLC Patent Litigation, 886 F. Supp. 2d 888 - Dist. Court, ND Illinois 2012 - Google Scholar (at scholar.google.com) http://tinyurl.com/pj3vodv
13:10 < xray> Two Federal district judges made opposing rulings so Google escalated to SCOTUS and they refused the case https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/063014zor_n648.pdf
13:10 < PigBot> None (at www.supremecourt.gov) http://tinyurl.com/y6ufwkvl
13:10 <@Dagmar> You realize that is shit, right?
13:10 <@Dagmar> Not only is it flawed, it's not a verdict on anything
13:11 < xray> Google lost their case and was cited for wiretap and were allowed to be sued over it. So now it depends on which precedent a prosecutor chooses to cite.
13:11 <@Dagmar> They got denied a dismissal on part of the bullshit
13:11 <@Dagmar> They were _granted_ a dismissal on two of the three parts.
13:11 < xray> The judgement against Google for wiretap still stands
13:12 <@Dagmar> Yes, which still doesn't make it illegal
13:12 <@Dagmar> Everyone was sick of media shills whining about it, and virtually no one actually believes Google was doing anything nefarious there who isn't looking to get ad revenue from mouse clicks
13:12 < xray> It is if you are in the district of the judge who ruled against Google or if a prosecutor in another district decides to use that ruling as precedent
13:13 < xray> I might be able to fight it but it would bankrupt me in legal bills.
13:13 <@Dagmar> Money is the only reason Google let that happen
13:13 < xray> kw3T3mpleHi5toryChirpN!ntyRecl@imWe4therQuestion
13:14 <@Dagmar> It was a simple way to make people shut the fuck up about it
13:14 < xray> I HATE MICROSOFT
13:14 <@Dagmar> Nice password
13:16 <@Dagmar> Also, that was a civil suit.  This has no bearing on criminal complaints.
13:16 <@Dagmar> If someone wants to slap you with a class action suit, then you can worry about that precedent
13:17 <@Dagmar> You fucking laptop does what Google was doing, every single time you click the button to show you available networks in range
13:17 <@Dagmar> Your cell phone is probably doing this very same thing in the background over a regular interval
13:18 <@Dagmar> The difference being that no greedy lawyers have gotten together to slap a class action lawsuit against basically everyone, on behalf of everyone else
13:23 < xray> Thanks to Outlook
13:24 < xray> It crashes multiple time per day because of the Microsoft teams pluggin that if forcably reinstalles.
13:24 < xray> And the Outlook password interfaces randomly bounces credential entry to other windows.
13:24 < xray> Just had to change my password.
13:25 < xray> If Microsoft wants to force constant patching and updating they could at least have the courtesy of having applications that actaully work
13:25 < xray> I'M SO PISSED AT THEM I COULD SCREAM
13:27 < xray> I completely understand the idiocy of the ruling.
13:27 <@Corydon76> oddball: how do you react to Panya's FB comments in a way that is unlikely to incur the wrath?
13:28 <@oddball> ....why?
13:28 < xray> The second ruling complete destroyed the first rulings argument but that first ruling still stands. In light of SB315 I don't expect politicians nor prosecutors to do anything resembling reasonable
13:29 < xray> and I don't have the finances to defend myself in court so my only option is to avoid it
13:29 < xray> Which is why I no longer do NarkNet demonstrations ad conferences.
13:29 < xray> s/ad/at/
13:31 <@oddball> Her studying post?  She's signed up for a web designer course in hopes of being able to show employers "see?  I have certs!"
13:31 <@Corydon76> oddball: I felt a disturbance in the Force when I thought about responding
13:31 <@Corydon76> Her reply after mine to a comment on one of Becky's posts.
13:32 <@Corydon76> Responding or reacting
13:33 < xray> I realized you all probably have no idea what SB315 is.
13:34 <@Corydon76> xray: the Georgia bill that makes computer snooping a crime?
13:34 < xray> yes that one
13:35 <@Corydon76> Was the veto the end of it?
13:35 < xray> It wanted to blame security researchers for the complete failure of the GA Secretary of States office to secure voting informaton
13:36 < xray> Yes but the person behind is very likely to become the next Governor so the next iteration of the law will not be vetoed.
13:36 <@Corydon76> Of course.  If we bury our heads in the sand, there's no problem.
13:36 <@oddball> Corydon76: ah... tred carefully?
13:37 < xray> It took an amazing amount of effort to defeat the bill.
13:37 < xray> Politicians want to blame everyone but themselves for the problems they create.
13:38 <@Dolemite> Of course, if it applies to computers IN Georgia, it could have a negative effect on the technology jobs within the state.
13:38 < xray> yes, which is why everybody and his brother opposed
13:38 < xray> it
13:39 <@Corydon76> xray: I've often thought of creating a proposed constitutional amendment where legislators would be individually liable for the costs of defending a law that is ruled unconstituional.
13:39 < xray> by that I mean people in info sec
13:39 <@Corydon76> If you hit them in the pocketbook, might they be more careful in crafting laws?
13:39 < xray> That is an interesting idea
13:40 < xray> I don't know that SB315 would be unconstitutional just profoundly stupid
13:40 <@Dolemite> I'd like one that requires markup in every bill that shows which lobbyist proposed which wording changes, and how much they contributed to the sponsors.
13:40 <@Corydon76> Might be able to throw it under free speech
13:41 <@Dolemite> Of course, I'd like lobbying firms to simple be outlawed
13:41 <@Dolemite> simply
13:42 <@Corydon76> I don't know about outlawing them.  But we should put up a wall between PACs and lobbyists.
13:43 <@Corydon76> If you lobby, you can't contribute to a PAC, and PACs should not be able to lobby
13:43 <@Corydon76> It's just too close to bribery
13:44 <@Corydon76> If all lobbyists are doing is talking to legislators, that should be fine, as long as their talking is not connected to any contribution
13:44 <@Dolemite> We truly have the best politicians that money can buy
13:45 < xray> sad but true. Reminds me of this movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman
13:45 < PigBot> The Distinguished Gentleman - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/yc8cjjvm
13:45 <@Corydon76> Because lobbying is AKA petitioning the government for a redress of grievances
14:27 <@Dagmar> triceratux: Because you're using freakin Opera
15:19 <@Corydon76> Apparently, VMware's support portal was down today.  Someone should let them know about software that allows a service provider to easily rollback to a checkpoint.  It sounds like VMware could really use such software today.
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17:01 < dasunt> Crap, why am I even bothering emailing my boss about doing my job properly?
17:01 < dasunt> It probably won't matter if this gets done or not, and she's just going to be bothered if I ask her questions.
17:22 <@eryc> lol "software that allows easy rollbacks"
17:24 <@eryc> dear software devs, from now on for every new feature we need the opposite feature in case we have to roll back affected database objects
17:25 <@eryc> dear leader, go fuck yourself, love finance
18:09 <@Mirage> dasunt: remember my bitching about having multiple "high priority" issues escalated to me fri?
18:10 <@Mirage> dasunt: today my manager was getting all bent out of shape because I didn't get the lowest priority thing done...which i'd told him fri wasn't gonna happen unless i decided to do it over the weekend, which i didn't
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21:44 -!- Psilovybin [~psilovybi@unaffiliated/drarkanex] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
--- Log closed Tue Oct 09 00:00:09 2018