--- Log opened Fri Sep 07 00:00:54 2018
06:37 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:42  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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09:27 < Synx_hm> sup peeps
09:32 <@Evilpig> I swear to god.  some people ...  I don't understand how you can get into a higher end tech role and have zero reading comprehension
09:32 <@Evilpig> if I have to respond to this motherfucker again there will be directors included in the reply
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10:11 <@Evilpig> who in here deals with ssl certs regularly?
10:11 <@Evilpig> my boss has asked me to provide him a pro/con list of an ev cert vs a standard.
10:11 <@Evilpig> iirc ev just has a more strict ownership vetting process
10:13 <@Evilpig> I think i've seen where if you want to sign code you may need an ev cert to get approval
10:25 <@Dolemite> We require an EV cert for code signing and for anything at the top level of the domain.   Anything that's a subdomain, we allow for domain verification.
10:26 <@Dolemite> So *.gov is EV cert, but server.blah.gov is ok to have as domain verification, or server.sub.blah.gov.
10:29 <@Evilpig> it makes sense for code signing that you want the organization properly identified
10:29 <@Dolemite> yep
10:29 <@Evilpig> we just do web traffic and not code signing so it seems silly to even consider ev certs
10:29 <@Dolemite> DV is becoming much more accepted these days
10:30 <@Evilpig> I could see it for maybe a web portal that is accepting payments
10:30 <@Corydon76> Evilpig: EV is good for any organization which handles financial transactions with the public
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10:31 <@Corydon76> For example, we have an EV cert for our main website, as well as our retail sites, because we solicit the public to enter their credit cards for payment
10:32 <@Corydon76> But if you're not dealing with financial transactions or something which needs that additional layer of trust, EV is a waste of money.
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10:56 < Synx_hm> whelp happy lay off day
10:56 < Psilovybin> layoff day?
11:01 < Psilovybin> dolemite: man... deleting facebook... so good.. how are you man
11:04 < Synx_hm> as in i just got laid off
11:06 <@Evilpig> Synx_hm: sorry to hear.  was this expected or but secs surprise?
11:06 < Synx_hm> surprise
11:06 < Synx_hm> meh it happens just in a bit of shock is all
11:07 < Synx_hm> turns out today is going to be day drinking day yay
11:10 <@Evilpig> ouch.  sorry to hear.  luckily for you there are plenty of opportunities around right now
11:16 <@Corydon76> Yeah, Nashville is a good place to be if you're looking for employment.
11:22 < Synx_hm> ya, its a good time to be let go for sure
11:29 < Synx_hm> my spouse is kinda freaking out though
11:34 <@Corydon76> It's Friday.  You're unlikely to get another job today, so there doesn't need to be any freaking out until Monday.
11:34 <@Corydon76> Even so, when you were laid off, did you get severance?
11:38 < Synx_hm> i only get the severance if i sign a non-compete and non-disparage papers
11:38 < Synx_hm> but yes they offered 8 weeks
11:38 < Synx_hm> they are overnighting me the papers
11:38 < Synx_hm> and spot on about it being friday
11:38 < Synx_hm> need to take the weekend to collect my thoughts and proceed
11:38 <@Corydon76> Well, the non-compete papers are unenforceable under the law.
11:38 < Synx_hm> in TN?
11:39 < Synx_hm> i swear i had read up on that and it was enforceable
11:39 < Synx_hm> this company has gone after a number of people over it
11:40 <@Corydon76> It's mixed.
11:41 <@Corydon76> It looks like they can prevent you from competing if they provided you with specific knowledge and training that could be used in competition against them
11:41 <@Corydon76> https://www.nashvillebusinesslitigationlawyersblog.com/understanding-tennessee-courts-analyze-non-compete-agreements/
11:41 < PigBot> Understanding How Tennessee Courts Analyze Non-Compete Agreements — Tennessee Business Litigation Lawyers Blog — August 9, 2017 (at www.nashvillebusinesslitigationlawyersblog.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybk94fc4
11:42 <@Corydon76> So the question is, what did you do for them, and did they provide you with specific knowledge and training that would be useful to a competitor?
11:44 <@Corydon76> I had a boss threaten me with it before, and I laughed at him, because the noncompete clause specifically stated that it applied only to the PRIMARY business of my employer, not tertiary businesses.
11:45 <@Corydon76> At the time, I was working for Booksamillion.  No court is going to say that their primary business is building websites for outside parties.
11:48 <@Corydon76> https://thompsonburton.com/litigation/2015/08/31/tennessee-court-strikes-down-non-compete-agreement/
11:48 < PigBot> Tennessee Court Strikes Down Non-Compete Agreement - Business Litigation Attorney (at thompsonburton.com) http://tinyurl.com/yd8j3gks
11:49 <@eryc> one thing to keep in mind is that unless you tell someone where you're working it's unlikely they'll find out
11:49 <@eryc> save a reference check from the new employer
11:57 < Synx_hm> ya
11:57 <@eryc> not to add any stress but defending against a lawsuit is not a simple thing
11:57 < Synx_hm> something else that complicates all this, ive been seriously considering dropping FMLA and short term disability, now i need to see if i ever discussed that on company IM
11:57 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: so what did you do for them?
11:58 <@eryc> sex work
11:58 < Synx_hm> Corydon76, its a telecom testing company, i pro-services but it was basically only with our proprietary software
11:58 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: I'd say it's unlikely they could actually enforce that non-compete, then
11:59 <@Corydon76> They can threaten all they like, but a good lawyer would tell them they have no case.
11:59 <@eryc> ..you have to pay that lawyer
11:59 <@eryc> or you mean theirs
11:59 <@Corydon76> They likely have a laywer on staff
12:00 <@eryc> word
12:00 <@Corydon76> And it may be that their entire strategy is in saber rattling.
12:01 <@Corydon76> If they can keep enough of their former employees from going to their competitors, even though the non-compete is worthless, then they win in the marketplace
12:01 < Synx_hm> ya
12:02 <@Corydon76> That said, it's not universally worthless.  If applied to a software engineer with intimate details of the internal workings of that software, it might be enforceable if that employee went to another company that made testing software
12:02 < Synx_hm> for sure its some saber rattling but they have taken it to court many times, usually they settle out with the company that hired x employee
12:03 <@Corydon76> Oh, if they're suing the other company, you don't have to worry about that.  That sounds like a business decision that it's cheaper to settle for a small amount of money than to pursue a case to completion
12:04 <@Corydon76> And the settlement may even be no money changes hands, just a confidentiality agreement, which is enough to scare future ex-employees
12:04 < Psilovybin> Sorry to hear that Synx, take the rest of the week off and hit the ground running on monday
12:04 <@Corydon76> Psilovybin: you know it's Friday, right?
12:05 < Psilovybin> Corydon76: yea..  the day is still fresh.. :)
12:06 < Psilovybin> I was terminated from OHL for being 5 minutes late, and i had a note from my doctor.
12:06 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: sign the papers on Monday.  Get your severance.  Then go apply to work for their competitors.  Don't give it another thought.
12:07 < Psilovybin> got a 2 week severence..  was really weird
12:07 < Psilovybin> Yes, What Cory said...
12:08 < Warcop> I've seen companies actively send cease and desist from legal to everyone that leaves said company regardless of termination or resignation. It's just saber rattling and it does work.
12:08 < Psilovybin> Corydon76: if they do take him to court over the NCA though, they have to prove he violated it by giving compnay secrets to the competitor, right?  that's about the only way
12:09 < Psilovybin> but as far as not working for a competitor for 1 year, that's bullshit.. and i wouldn't worry about that
12:10 <@Dagmar> Yeah, ignore that
12:10 <@Dagmar> Are you in Tennessee?
12:10 < Psilovybin> hey dag
12:10 <@Dagmar> TN judges look very dimly on people being fired over _medical_ issues
12:10 < Warcop> In my experience it's generally not worth the paper it's written on.
12:10 <@Dagmar> It might not even be legal for them to have fired you for being late because you were at the doctor, especially since you obtained a note
12:11 < Psilovybin> Dagmar: that was me, i got terminated in 2014 from OHL, my medicine was making me sleepy and hard to wake up.  I let the IT director know, he said he'd work with me, came in 5 min late.. was escorted out the door by security by 11
12:11 <@Dagmar> For hourly employees in TN, if the system works based on 6-minute increments, a judge can bitchslap them over times of less than six minutes
12:12 < Psilovybin> it was really weird, they didn't give me a chance to grab my personal stuff
12:12 <@Dagmar> Five minutes late, once?
12:12 < Psilovybin> well.. 5 days prior, i was 15 minutes late
12:12 <@Dagmar> So, twice?  That's still laughable
12:12 < Warcop> ^
12:13 < Psilovybin> i had never been late once in the year, always answered my email 24/7 and phone from supers in the field
12:13 <@Dagmar> Unless your shit was _extremely_ time-sensitive, they can just take their NCA and shove it up their ass
12:13 <@Dagmar> Wait... was this salaraied?
12:13 <@Dagmar> er salaried?
12:13 < Psilovybin> for me it was
12:13 <@Dagmar> Like, I could go sodomize VU for fucking around with me for being "late" less than two minutes multiple times on a salaried position
12:14 <@Dagmar> ..._because_ of the on-call responsibilities and salary
12:14 <@Dagmar> If they were willing to do that, the reason it was "weird" is because they know they didn't really have a leg to stand on there
12:14 < Synx_hm> Dagmar, ya i am a TN resident
12:14 < Psilovybin> well, i got replaced by an outsoucing company that was charging them 10k a month...  glad i'm gone from there, too many idiots
12:16 < Psilovybin> My manager was a really cool guy, he was an old c64 bbser from back in the day
12:16 < Psilovybin> but it wasn't his call.. it was the IT director..  he was a raging idiot...
12:16 <@Dagmar> He was probably worried you were going to take his job eventually
12:17 <@Dagmar> A lot of that sort of shit happens at Vanderbilt
12:17 < Psilovybin> i dunno, maybe, the IT director started the same day i did
12:17 < Psilovybin> he comes up to me that first day and said.. "i looked at your resume, so you like linux huh, what's your favorite desktop, mine's openbox"  i was like, wtf...
12:18 < Psilovybin> this nigga has a mac on his desk and running windows, i look up his resume on linked in, and he's fresh out of UofA..
12:19 <@Dagmar> ...and hired as a director?
12:19 < Psilovybin> yup
12:19 <@Dagmar> Yeah, that was a political move
12:19 < Psilovybin> oh yea, i know...
12:19 < Psilovybin> I think I pissed off Trix pretty bad...
12:22 < Psilovybin> when i started that job, i was tasked with migrating 5000 rf guns from one server to the other... and had 90 days to complete it.  I wrote a script and got every one of them migrated in 5 days..  absolutely no love, i had never touched an rf gun in my life til then
12:22 <@Dagmar> He's not a little girl.  He can take it
12:23 < Psilovybin> aye, he acted like a little girl when he wouldn't listen to me and instead i had to go to the project director.. then he got pissed i went over his head
12:24 < Psilovybin> made him look bad, but he whiteknighted himself out of it
12:25 < Psilovybin> i told him "Server is low on memory, you may want to increase it before the site goes live", he told me i don't know what the fuck i was talking about..  lol
12:26 <@eryc> what's an rf gun?
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12:26 < Psilovybin> after the site goes live and starts getting pummeled.. shit starts backing up bad, i had already warned the project manager..
12:26 < Psilovybin> eryc: you know those handheld windows CE devices people in walmart have to scan inventory with the keypad
12:26 <@eryc> ah
12:27 < Psilovybin> so i'm looking at the server, the CPU load is like 3.00 and memory is already digging into the swap... i look at how much memory the server has and it has 768mb ram and operating on 1 core..
12:27 <@Dagmar> wat
12:28 < Psilovybin> so i call him back and he won't answer
12:28 < Psilovybin> oh, btw this was for H&M website launch back in 2013...
12:28 <@Dagmar> A _production_ system with only 768Mb of RAM?
12:28 <@eryc> hahahaha
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12:28 < Psilovybin> so he ups the cores to 4 and the memory to 8gb and the server is sooo much better
12:28 <@Dagmar> "Good afternoon, bodega-tender.  I would like to purchase one 24-pack of Liquid Fuck No."
12:29 < Psilovybin> fucking trix man...  i swear, i've always disliked that guy
12:29 <@eryc> yea you gotta be pretty ballsy to go with less than 2gb in prod
12:29 <@eryc> i've done it, but i wrote all the code too
12:29 <@Dagmar> Someone forgot they were still spitballing a config or something if a 768Mb configuration made it out of dev/test
12:30 < Psilovybin> eryc, well prior to that, they didn't need that much, they were just testing, but trix forgot to up the cores and memory
12:31 < Psilovybin> i may have screenshots of it
12:31 <@eryc> my most recent fuckup was migrating oracle to a VM and not calculating disk space the way i wanted it.. i like to keep all servers below 70% and i ended up with 80% usage
12:32 <@eryc> and there were so many pieces that it wasn't feasible to redo the migration
12:32 <@eryc> i was like.. oops, oh well
12:32 <@eryc> it was a legacy system that was only decreasing in usage
12:33 <@eryc> also not my problem now since i don't work there
12:33 <@Dagmar> I would be hard-pressed to give a fuck about that difference as well
12:34 <@Dagmar> "oops, oh well" sounds like a balanced and reasonable response to the problem.  heh
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12:35 <@eryc> yea i just added an override to the disk usage check and promptly moved on
12:36 <@Dagmar> Psilovybin: I'm not trying to be harsh here, but... that a test server instance was apparently simply _promoted_ to production roles is kinda dumb
12:36 <@Dagmar> Like, that's not really a thing that's supposed to happen
12:36 <@eryc> i was thinking yesterday about how willing i was to accept other people's ignorance and stupidity a while back
12:36 <@Dagmar> eryc: It's like, at what point do we start taking matters into our own hands and culling the weak?
12:36 <@eryc> the best example was i had just started and setup monitoring for everything
12:37 <@Dagmar> Too many people to kill, not enough time to kill them all.
12:37 <@eryc> and they had this commercial distro of apache/tomcat that kept crashing every morning
12:37 <@eryc> so i'd get a call at 5am to restart it
12:37 <@eryc> i went ahead and wired the restart to the monitoring
12:37 <@eryc> got a raft of shit for that
12:37 <@eryc> and othr instances
12:38 <@eryc> but then i get so fed up i started challenging the stupidity and was then the resident asshole
12:38 <@eryc> so i'm going to make sure i don't surround myself with idiots at the next job
12:38 <@eryc> and also figure out more tactful approaches i guess
12:39 <@eryc> i got written up like 3 times for insubordination
12:39 <@Dagmar> A 5am repeated failure means someone else wasn't doing their damn job
12:40 <@eryc> yea i built my own apache and then had to convince people to switch to it
12:40 < Psilovybin> Dagmar: well, it wasn't test, it was prod, but it wasn't active prod until august 1st, trix just forgot to up the settings on the VM before launch, and i had warned him 2 hours prior and he flaked me off, told me i didn't know linux and to shut the fuck up
12:40 <@eryc> so many times its like why do i have to convincee these idiots that i know wtf i'm doing
12:40 <@Dagmar> Psilovybin" Tjere
12:40 <@Dagmar> Psilovybin: There's no such thing as "wasn't active prod" either
12:40 <@Dagmar> They were just rednecking shit there, sounds like
12:42 <@Dagmar> One of the reasons dev/test is copied into prod is so there's a known baseline for the OS and a known, basic procedure for deploying the changes from the baseline OS that bring the machine to a state of being able to handle the job it's being deployed for
12:42 <@Dagmar> i.e., soneone's got to document how the shit goes in there.
12:42 <@Dagmar> _document_
12:42 <@Dagmar> This is the last and final step at which it can still be done correctly.
12:43 <@Dagmar> Simply _promoting_ a server instance from dev/test to prod means you've probably got some hairball thrown together shit in production
12:43 <@eryc> yea documentation is crucial
12:43 <@Dagmar> Without the docs saying how the fuck that server came to be, you're unlikely to be able to create _more_ of them that are truly identical
12:43 < Psilovybin> i wasn't in charge of the server, i was sent there to make sure everything on site was handled and had a lifeline back to nashville
12:44 <@eryc> its best to write a doc for lab and have someone else implement it in stage/prod
12:44 <@Dagmar> ...without simply duplicating the filesystem and config, which will create problems of it's own
12:44 <@eryc> of course now docker is all the rage
12:44 < Psilovybin> as i said, i had told trix there wasn't enough memory to handle the bumb at midnight, he told me to mind my own business
12:44 <@Dagmar> They should have never rolled the damn thing out with only 768Mb provisioned in the first place
12:45 <@Dagmar> It's not like it had to run through a real burn-in test
12:45 <@Dagmar> They should have provisioned it as it was meant to be used in production and just left it disabled/off in the VM host
12:46 <@Dagmar> Its H&M for fuck's sake, not "Tom & Larry's Novelty Airbrushed Licence Plate Shack"
12:46 <@Dagmar> Maybe someone should have pretented to care about diligence and care for business processes
12:54 <@Dagmar> Let me be frank instead of diluting this for possible management-types and their sensitive ears
12:54 <@Dagmar> "IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN FUCKIN' 768MB TO BEGIN WITH"
12:54 <@Dagmar> Trix fucked up.
12:59 <@Dagmar> Half-assery that "usually works" like that pisses me off in the worst way
13:00 <@Dagmar> I'll follow formal business processes to the goddamn letter if I can, and basically have 0 downtime as a result
13:00 <@Dagmar> ...and to HR there's no difference between someone who does it like they mean it, and someone who half-asses everything
13:02 < Psilovybin> yea, and that's fine, i was berating him, calling him a noob and shit, I was being private, one on one, telling him the memory was low and he brushed me off like i was a noob...
13:02 <@Dagmar> I won't call someone a noob, but i'll tell them point blank they're doing it fuckin' wrong
13:03 <@Dagmar> Making all your production servers into mysterious black boxes that no one knows how really work is _not_ good business continuity planning]
13:03 <@Dagmar> "bus factor" is not the same thing as "job security"
13:03 <@Dagmar> It's practically the opposite of job security
13:04 <@Dagmar> If you're relying "bus factor" to keep your job, then other people are probably doing the same then
13:04 <@Dagmar> THen it only takes one, well-placed bus to fuck your company.
13:04 <@Dagmar> ...and consequently, everyone's jobs.
13:05 <@Dagmar> "Bus factor" is the number of buses (or "fatal acccidents") required to bring production to full-stop.
13:05 <@Dagmar> It'll be generally identical to the number of "irreplacable" employees
13:06 <@Dagmar> Skill leaving with an employee is one thing... process knowledge is another thing entirely
13:07 <@Dagmar> So, like, if one person leaves and their leaving would take the knowledge of how the company actually makes money with them when they go....
13:07 <@Dagmar> ...then there's a bus factor of 1.
13:08 <@Dagmar> If there's two people who share that knowledge, and each of them could handily work without the other, then bus factor is 2.
13:08 <@Dagmar> Ideally, you want the "bus factor" to be equal to the number of employees
13:08 <@Dagmar> ...and I mean total employees for the company.
13:09 <@Dagmar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
13:09 < PigBot> Bus factor - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/bvuzhsm
13:09 <@Dagmar> Absolutely read that first bit above the ToC
13:09 <@Dagmar> Because sometimes it's not always obvious why lack of documentation is actually very serious shit
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17:41 <@Dagmar> Wheeee!
17:42 <@Dagmar> I'm working my way towards a gen-u-ine profanity-laced tirade for these student loan fuckers
17:42 <@Dagmar> I get more calls from those shits than IF I WERE ACTUALLY IN DEFAULT ON A FUCKING LOAN
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 08 00:00:56 2018