--- Log opened Fri Aug 03 00:00:55 2018
06:22 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:26  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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09:16 <@Corydon76> https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/08/01/carvone-one-molecule-two-different-scents-and-flavors-13255
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10:01 < oddball> huh, apparently, Facebook is auto-blocking any post that includes a link to codeisfreespeech.com.  Their flagging it as spam.
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10:31 < xray> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/fcc-gives-google-fiber-and-new-isps-faster-access-to-utility-poles/
10:31 < PigBot> FCC sides with Google Fiber over Comcast with new pro-competition rule | Ars Technica (at arstechnica.com) http://tinyurl.com/y9tadjpa
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10:41 <@Corydon76> I wonder if that will affect the deployment in Nashville
10:42 <@Dolemite> Wow, Pai actually got something right
10:42 <@Corydon76> Wasn't the rule thrown out because the FCC rules overrode the local rules?
10:45 <@Corydon76> That is my reading of it, which means AT&T and Comcast now have 30 days to move their wires, or Google will be empowered to move the wires for them.
10:46 <@Dolemite> No
10:46 <@Dolemite> Nashville has their own rules, so the FCC change doesn't apply to them
10:46 <@Dolemite> This only affects areas that didn't opt out of FCC rules
10:46 <@Corydon76> Only states can opt out, and Tennessee has not.
10:47 <@Corydon76> Nashville's rules were thrown out by a court, which said that the FCC's rules held sway
10:47 <@Dolemite> Possibly.   I haven't followed much of it since I no longer live in Nashville.
10:47 <@Corydon76> Now the FCC has changed their rules to what Nashville's rules effectively were
10:48 <@Corydon76> Would be nice if Springfield ran their own fiber to all residents and then hooked us up as part of their utility system
10:48 <@Corydon76> No doubt for an extra fee, just like recycling.
10:49 <@Corydon76> I'm now paying $11/month to not have to drive my plastic, metal, and paper to Joelton.
10:49 <@Dolemite> My electric utility is exploring adding fiber internet services.   That'd be crazy if I had 3 viable broadband providers to choose from.
10:49 <@Corydon76> Crazy?  That sounds like it would be approaching a real market.
10:50 <@Dolemite> My point
10:50 < xray> Corydon76:  Articles I have read show that networks like the one you mentioned have higher bandwidth, better customer service, and lower prices than what Comcast and other provide.
10:50 <@Corydon76> All Springfield has to do is to start exploring it, and as long as they're exploring it, Comcast prices will drop through the floor
10:51 <@Corydon76> So I'm in favor of a 50-year study committee.
10:53 <@Corydon76> In other news, my insulated window film should be here tomorrow, so I should be able to install some extra measures to prevent the front guest bedroom from getting hot in the summer.
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10:59 < xray> Corydon76: What film are you using?
11:00 <@Corydon76> Gila Heat Control Platinum Adhesive
11:00 <@Corydon76> They have a 3ft wide and a 4ft wide version.  I'm getting the latter, which should cover about 6 of my windows
11:01 < xray> thanks
11:01 <@Corydon76> I think I only have 5 to cover.  The 3ft wide version only would have covered 3 windows
11:02 <@Corydon76> Just remember that you need their install kit, which comes separately
11:02 <@Corydon76> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKNZG6
11:02 < PigBot> Gila Heat Control Platinum Adhesive Residential DIY Window Film Sun Blocking Glare Reduction 4ft x 15ft (48in x 180in) - Weatherproofing Window Insulation Kits - Amazon.com (at smile.amazon.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb5pkgqc
11:02 < xray> thanks
11:02  * oddball now waits for the TN state legislature to quickly pass a measure to opt out of the FCC regs.
11:02 <@Corydon76> Watch the video on that link
11:02 <@Corydon76> oddball: that would come in January, since they're out of session until then
11:03 <@oddball> Oh, given the past history of our legislature, I wouldn't be too surprised if an emergency session was called to specifically do this.
11:03 <@Corydon76> A lot of fiber can be run in the meantime
11:03 <@Corydon76> Doesn't the governor have to do that?
11:04 <@oddball> I honestly don't know the details.
11:05 <@Corydon76> I looked it up.  The General Assembly could only do so since 1965, and in that time, they've done it precisely twice
11:07 <@Corydon76> And they can only receive pay for 30 legislative days, so if you can delay something that long, they'll probably adjourn.
11:08 <@Corydon76> Oh, and they're prohibited from raising money during the special session... so... not likely before the general election in November
11:08 < xray> Corydon76: The installation video was very informative
11:09 <@oddball> Of course, with the blatant bribery that has come from Comcast and ATT in the past...
11:09 <@Corydon76> xray: I thought so, too.  I'll let you know how my installation goes
11:09 <@dasunt> That reminds me, I need to add some more windows to my garage and put on some obscuring film.
11:10 <@Corydon76> oddball: I'm sure Google will be contributing to campaign coffers to help with that, too
11:13 <@oddball> So... with this latest uproar over 3D printing guns, I'm thinking about doing another talk about them at PN.
11:14 <@Corydon76> oddball: you find any range masters that are likely to let you shoot them at public ranges?
11:14 <@oddball> ...which might include handing out the files at the end of the talk.
11:14 <@oddball> Honestly?  No clue.  I haven't seen anyone specifically ban them.
11:14 <@Corydon76> My thought was that due to the risk of the printed gun breaking apart, the range masters might be likely to say "No"
11:15 <@Corydon76> Due to the risk both to the shooter and surrounding patrons
11:15 <@oddball> I'm guessing that they'd respond with "you've signed a waver saying that if your gun blows up, it's you're problem?  Ok... go for it."
11:16 <@oddball> The way ranges are set up, there's zero risk to those around you.  There's partitions between shooting bays.
11:17 <@oddball> And pistol rounds just aren't that powerful when It comes to kabooms.
11:17 <@Corydon76> Well, also, if someone does manage to injure themselves, they might be out bay fees for the time it takes for the ambulance to arrive and cart you away
11:18 <@oddball> That said, WizardPC and I may be building one in the very near future.
11:18 <@Corydon76> Shot with a vise and a string?
11:19 <@oddball> If we build one?  Probably... at least the first shot.
11:20 <@Corydon76> I've heard the first shot is the least risky, since you're dealing with an intact barrel.  After the first shot potentially warps the barrel, the second shot is much riskier.
11:22 <@oddball> The real concern is the strength of the chamber, and making sure that there's no obstructions.
11:23 <@oddball> The barrel shattering would be.. disconcerting, but probably not actually dangerous.  Especially given the length of barrels on the designs I've seen.
11:23 <@oddball> I probably wouldn't shoot it on a public range, but that's more due to accuracy being complete shit.
11:24 <@oddball> 1. super short barrel, and 2. if there is any rifling, I'd imagine that it would be sshot smooth pretty much instantly.
11:25 <@dasunt> oddball: Are you also going to bring up in your talk the existance of zip guns being cheaper and probably more durable?
11:25 <@oddball> yep.  A good portion of my old talk was examples of other home made guns.
11:26 <@oddball> ranging from "2 pipes and a nail" to "an AK made out of a shovel."
11:26 <@dasunt> I like the shovel AK.
11:27 <@oddball> And even with zip guns being cheap and stupid easy to make, the thugs of the world still opt for buying "real" guns on the black market, etc.
11:27 <@Corydon76> Funny, that.
11:28 <@oddball> Or, as London has been experiencing lately, they just get all stabby.
11:28 <@Corydon76> It's almost like there's real engineering that goes into modern guns.
11:28 <@oddball> or throw chemical weapons
11:28 <@oddball> or plain old fashioned bludgeons.
11:29 <@Corydon76> I take it you'd classify acid attacks as chemical weapons?
11:29 <@dasunt> Nope.  You just press "print" on your 3D printer and out comes an exact clone of a AKM-1647 killing machine, complete with a silencer that makes every shot whisper quiet.
11:29 <@oddball> Corydon76: yep
11:30 <@Corydon76> Good first day in prison for anybody convicted of an acid attack would be a sulphuric acid bath.
11:30 <@oddball> The funny thing is that there are a *lot* of cases where a thug was caught with a gun and ammo that doesn't fit the gun.  He just knew that he needed ammo for it.  Sometimes, they'll take a 9mm and wrap tape around it to fit a .45
11:32 <@oddball> And, of course, remember that Columbine would have been significantly worse if those two jackasses had actually built their bombs correctly.  The original plan was to blow up the cafeteria during lunch, and shoot the survivors.
11:33 <@Corydon76> Lesson, of course, is to test your stuff before you try using it.
11:38 < xray> The mass attack weapons of choice in Europe seems to be bombs and trucks.
11:39 < xray> Good luck outlawing trucks and bombs are already illegal. So making it illegal obviously prevents their use.
11:39 <@Corydon76> I think their choice would be black market firearms.  But bombs are a good fallback
11:39 <@Corydon76> And if they can't get a truck, they'll use a team with knives
11:40 < xray> Never underestimate evil's inventiveness.
12:06 <@Corydon76> One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
12:06 <@Corydon76> History is written by the victors
12:08 <@dasunt> What's that documentary?  Crazy love?  The one about the acid attack.
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13:59 < K`Tetch> 12:28:14 «@oddball» Or, as London has been experiencing lately, they just get all stabby. <-- stabbings aren't that bad, mostly survivable, moreso than gun wounds, plus you can actively defend a knife attack.
14:00 <@oddball> Actually, statistically, you're wrong.
14:00 <@oddball> stabbings are statistically more fatal than gun shot wounds.
14:03 < K`Tetch> Point Blank, by Gary Kleck, pg 165, citing a study by Wilson and Sherman, 1961:
14:03 < K`Tetch> “At least one medical study compared very similar sets of wounds (‘all were
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14:03 < K`Tetch> penetrating wounds of the abdomen’), and found that the mortality rate in
14:03 < K`Tetch> pistol wounds was 16.8%, while the rate was 14.3% for ice pick wounds and
14:03 < K`Tetch> 13.3% for butcher knife wounds.
14:03 < K`Tetch> The study is in Annals of Surgery Vol 153 pp 639-649 “Civilian
14:03 < K`Tetch> Penetrating Wounds of the Abdomen” by Wilson and Sherman. It covers stab
14:03 < K`Tetch> (5% mortality) and gun shot wounds (17% mortality) to the abdomen.
14:03 < K`Tetch> of coruse, that study didn't count people who were DOA at the hospital, and is 50 years old
14:04 <@oddball> huh, ok, I was thinking that I had read the opposite, but I don't have the time to hunt down that source right now.
14:06 <@oddball> But I will say that there has been a spike in the murder rate in London over the past couple years, and a very large percentage of that has been from knife attacks.  To the point that there was a headline recently stating that London has now passed NYC for murders.
14:07 < K`Tetch> there was a headline saying that, it was false though
14:07 <@oddball> oh?
14:07 < K`Tetch> some of the london ones were not homicides, and NYC changed some suicides to homicides a month or two later
14:08 < K`Tetch> https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-is-london-really-deadlier-than-new-york
14:10 <@oddball> interesting
14:11 < K`Tetch> its often the same story when coparing us/uk crime. people think that since they work off the same basic common law sustem, that the police work the same. like 'violent crime' - in the US its one of 5 crimes, in the UK it's about 60 different offences
14:12 <@oddball> well, and murder, in particular is reported differently.
14:12 < K`Tetch> if I steal your car by fishing the keys out of your house through the mail slot while you're watching TV, thats a 'violent crime', because you've burgled while the occupant is home
14:17 <@dasunt> Isn't there something similar for why Sweden has just an insane rate of rapes - it's not that it's likely there's more, but they are much more broad in how they define the crime?
14:17 < K`Tetch> correct
14:17 <@oddball> Wouldn't surprise me
14:17 < K`Tetch> see Asasnge for instance
14:18 <@oddball> There was also a huge bump in rape in the US a couple years ago... because the Fed redefined what rape was.
14:18 <@oddball> In fairness, the old definition *really* needed to be changed.
14:19 <@dasunt> I thought it was up until relatively recently where it was impossible to rape a man according to the feds.
14:19 <@dasunt> Or for a woman to commit rape.
14:19 <@oddball> yep
14:19 <@dasunt> (Among other amounts of silliness)
14:20 <@oddball> The old definition was specifically forced male on female intercourse, where the penis penetrated vagina.
14:21 < K`Tetch> same with knife+gun crime in the UK. any knife over 3inch, or with a locking blade, is ilegal. ANY firearm under 24" barrel-length is also blanket illegal. (which is why converted starter pistols are all the rage now)
14:22  * aestetix glances in, sees the topic, moves to the next chat
14:22 <@oddball> heh
14:22 < K`Tetch> :-D
14:22 <@Corydon76> What gets me is that there's a prisoner's dilemma when two drunk people have sex.  Whoever claims rape first is the victim, and the other has no defense.
14:23 <@Corydon76> Because according to the law, you cannot use alcohol impairment as an affirmative defense against a charge of rape.
14:23 <@oddball> And I think that the recent outrage over a guy reporting a girl first in that case hillarious.
14:23 < K`Tetch> iirc, isn't it now they can be cross-charged
14:23 < aestetix> Clearly the solution is simply to not have sex.
14:24 < K`Tetch> hows that working so far, aestetix?
14:24 < K`Tetch> :-P
14:24 <@Corydon76> K`Tetch: you're thinking of statutory rape where both are underage
14:24 < K`Tetch> no, i think it's a dual imparement thing, each can be charged for the other
14:24 <@Corydon76> And I think SCOTUS tossed that law out
14:25 <@Corydon76> K`Tetch: My understanding of the law was first to complain is the victim
14:25 < aestetix> K`Tetch: so far no charges filed
14:25 < aestetix> Although I guess nobody does that these days. They go straight to the tabl^H^H^Hmedia
14:25 <@oddball> Corydon76: Of course, many will say that the guy raped her: https://joeforamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/thehookup.jpg
14:25 <@Corydon76> aestetix: the solution is not to have sex when either of you are impaired
14:26 <@oddball> I'm not sure about actual legal matters, but first to complain is how it's shaken out with colleges.
14:26 < aestetix> oddball: that's because of title XI
14:26 <@oddball> you mean title IX?
14:26 < aestetix> yes
14:26 < aestetix> doh
14:27 < aestetix> sorry, tired
14:27 <@oddball> np.  Typo
14:27 <@Corydon76> And sorry, I misstated it.  If either is drunk, then consent cannot be used as an affirmative defense
14:27 <@dasunt> Corydon76: The drunk sex thing is complex.  Obviously some shitheads would use it as an excuse.  Yet do most people?
14:28 <@Corydon76> dasunt: I was interested in it as another Prisoner's Dilemma.
14:29 <@dasunt> Funny enough, minors can be charged as "contributing to the deliquency of a minor", which means two minors can goad each other into certain behavior and both be charged for corrupting each other.
14:29 <@oddball> Now, there was the Vandy case, where a guy and his friends took a dead drunk girl back to his room and gang ganged her...
14:29 <@Corydon76> If neither says anything, then both benefit.  But being first to accuse, if either accuse, ensures that you don't go to jail.
14:30 <@Corydon76> oddball: in that case, prosecution had video that clearly showed the girl was unconscious
14:30 <@oddball> yep
14:30 <@Corydon76> So she doubly couldn't consent, both due to being unconscious, as well as being drunk.
14:31 <@Corydon76> Thank goodness for arrogant idiots for taking the video
14:31 <@oddball> yeah
14:33 <@Corydon76> Does Vandy or Tennessee impose a duty to intercede?  I don't remember the law.
14:34 <@Corydon76> That is, if you see a crime being committed, and you can reasonably take measures to stop or prevent it, and you do nothing, are you culpable?
14:34 <@oddball> I don't know.
14:34 <@oddball> I don't think the state does, but I'm not a lawyer.
14:36 <@Corydon76> Looks like the duty is not universally applied, but if it's applied, then culpability results.
14:41 <@dasunt> AFAIK, there's often not a duty.
14:43 <@Corydon76> Vanderbilt's handbook asserts a duty for all staff members if they are informed of a sexual assault.
14:44 <@Corydon76> It does not specify a duty to report for students.
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14:49 < aestetix> I love how Google was so vocal against working with the US Government, but they are lining up to help China
14:55 <@eryc> i think they were specifically against developing models to improve drone targeting
14:55 <@eryc> i haven't seen China bombing anyone with their drones lately
14:57 <@Corydon76> To be fair, China doesn't have freedom of the press, either.
14:59 <@Corydon76> You know what China wants you to know.
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15:03 <@Evilpig> why do I need to put in my birthday to visit https://www.makersmark.com/distillery/tours  but I not for http://www.pornhub.com  ?
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15:18 <@dasunt> Today's distraction:  I'm trying to convince someone that the idea of "natural rights" is a fiction.
15:25 <@Corydon76> Evilpig: because porn isn't taxed by the government... yet...
15:27 <@Corydon76> dasunt: Why?
15:28 <@Corydon76> Natural rights is the easiest way to think about legal matters under the US government
15:29 <@Corydon76> Everyone is allowed everything under natural rights, but we restrict some of those rights in order to have a civilized society.  Makes perfect sense.
15:58 <@dasunt> Corydon76: It's easy, but it's a fiction.
15:59 <@dasunt> Which is why different societies tend to have different ideas of natural rights.
15:59 <@Corydon76> A legal fiction to make it easier to understand law?
16:00 <@dasunt> Yes.  A legal fiction.
16:00 <@Corydon76> That's fair
16:01 <@dasunt> Kind of like assuming if two people die in the same accident at unknown times, the older one died first.
16:02 <@dasunt> Nothing says that's how it happened, but if Mr. and Mrs Smith are in a car crash, it gives us a way to figure out their wills.
16:04 <@Corydon76> I've heard that a number of wills specify that someone must outlive another by 30 days, or their deaths will be considered concurrent, to deal with situations where one dies immediately and the other dies due to injuries sustained in the same accident.
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17:11 <@Dagmar> ...and of _course_ Windows can't recognize the backups the thing had been making.
17:13 <@dasunt> LOL.
17:13 <@dasunt> Did you expect otherwise?
17:13 <@Dagmar> I had hopes
17:13 <@Dagmar> I'm going to do a bare install, push a tiny backup to the network backup space, and then see if it will recognize the damn backup and restore it then
17:14 <@dasunt> It's better to give up hope when working with Windows.
17:15 <@Dagmar> Well, I have no hope of getting the nVidia driver working any other way at this point
17:18 < K`Tetch> anyone going to Dragoncon, and wants to try the'splendid teapot race?
17:22 <@Evilpig> I still use backuppc to back up my windows shit
17:22 <@Evilpig> I give apple credit for time machine.  that shit just works
17:36 <@Dagmar> Okay.  That's effed up
17:36 <@Dagmar> I do a clean install of Win10 and _then_ it can recognize the backup that was made
17:38 <@Dagmar> Looks like it's all user files anyway  Damn
17:48 <@oddball> Dagmar: I'm guessing you're staying at home tonight?
18:06 <@Dagmar> yeah
18:07 <@Dagmar> I had work scheduled, but my damn bicuspid started an infection that I just got antibiotics for
18:07 <@oddball> right
18:14 <@Dagmar> My jaw looks like i'm chewing dip and I am feeling generally crap
18:14 <@Dagmar> Should be better tomorrow, hopefully
18:14 <@oddball> ugh, suck
18:15 < xray> dental pain is the worst. Hope you feel better soon.
18:24 <@Evilpig> this array reshape needs to finish already.  these last few hours are just driving me batty
--- Log closed Sat Aug 04 00:00:57 2018