--- Log opened Tue Jul 24 00:00:41 2018
01:38 <@Dagmar> If ti winds up going to collections, there are a few very simple steps to make the problem go away
01:39 <@Dagmar> 1. Tell the people collecting that the debt has been paid, but just so there's no question about who said what, any further correspondence should take place over registered mail.
01:39 <@Dagmar> 2. Check with the credit agencies to see if it's showing up there.  If it is, inform them that it's a mistake and the debt was paid.  You don't really need to provide proof, just dispute it.
01:40 <@Dagmar> The person claiming the debt has 30 days to confirm it or it's just wiped off.  (Don't do this fraudulently!)
01:40 <@Dagmar> 3. If the collection people continue calling, or someone puts the debt _back_ on your report, then you have grounds for pursuing a claim against the people claiming the debt incorrectly, but things arne't likely to get that far
01:41 <@Dagmar> Collections agencies are REQUIRED to stop calling and pursue things through registered mail if you request it.  Period.
01:41 <@Dagmar> MOst are sleazy and know they're pursuing questionablet debts, so they'll just stop right there
01:41 <@Dagmar> The ones that don't, file a harassment suit.
01:41 <@Dagmar> ...because *fuck those guys*
01:42 <@Dagmar> Pay your debts, bring PAIN AND SUFFERING to anyone who claims otherwise.
01:44 <@Dagmar> As to the "record all calls" thing, check your local statutes.  If you're in a one-party consent state (TN is) you don't have to tell a debt collector a damn thing about recording the calls.  In fact DON'T mention it at all
01:44 <@Dagmar> Give them the rope to hang themselves because there are severe penalties for the type of shit some of those places pull
01:45 <@Dagmar> The first time they should find out you recorded those calls is when they're being admitted into evidence.
06:55 < aestetix> so uh
06:56 < aestetix> I really hope for your guys sake the SJWs and the alt-right assholes stay away from PhreakNIC
06:56 < K`Tetch> Dagmar - ga is single party too
06:57 < K`Tetch> and thats fun when a shitty lawyer starts bitching about his calls to the lawyer I'm working for in federal court,
06:57 < K`Tetch> and the judge (who was a FISC judge in the 80s) does a benchslap
07:22 <@Corydon76> Most of the debt collection companies don't send via registered mail, just regular mail anyway.  And given that they don't have *proof* that they sent a notice that the debt was legitimate, they'll never take it to court.
07:22 <@Corydon76> They have to be able to prove, with a preponderance of evidence, that they complied with the FCRA.  If they didn't, the debt becomes uncollectable.
07:24 <@Corydon76> If you read the law carefully and construct your followup letter saying as such, AND use the legalese to say that you might pursue legal action against them for violating the FCRA, you'll get a nice followup letter from them saying the debt has been dismissed.
07:25 < aestetix> Also make sure to send all your mail to the debt collection places certified mail with a reciept
07:25 < aestetix> so they don't deny getting it
07:25 < aestetix> (had to do that with health insurance too)
07:25 <@Corydon76> Yep, certified mail with return receipt for everything you send.
07:26 <@Corydon76> You basically screw them over with their cost cutting measures.
07:26 < aestetix> Corydon76: another fun thing
07:27 < aestetix> is to demand proof in writing, and then every letter you get, say you found a small issue in the form or your name or something
07:27 < aestetix> and ask them to send a new corrected form
07:28 < aestetix> like if your name is Bob, request it be changed to Robert. And then request they include your middle initial. And then get that changed to your middle name.
07:28 < aestetix> And so on
07:28 <@Corydon76> I don't bother with such.  I learned a new one over the past couple of days.  A plain bill from the original doesn't mean much.  The courts like to see your signature.  If the paperwork lacks your signature, courts take a dim view of it.
07:29 < aestetix> Corydon76: it's a great way to prolong the process
07:29 < aestetix> wastes lots of their time. It's especially great for small bills that you don't want to pay
07:29 <@Corydon76> My goal isn't to prolong the process.  It's to make the process end as quickly as possible using legal means.
07:29 <@Evilpig> That doesn't prolong the process it generally dismisses it.  NotLarry can attest to that
07:30 <@Corydon76> The whole problem with invalid debts is that they waste MY time.
08:27 < xray> Thanks for the tips on how to deal with collections if it should come to that.
08:28 < xray> How do you find out what the law is in a state concerning recording conversations.? It has to be in state code somewhere but what do I search for,
08:28 <@Corydon76> xray: my sense of legal letters is it's the art of threatening them with their livelihood without ever actually saying that you will do anything.
08:29 <@Corydon76> xray: "two party states"
08:30 < xray> Found this Recording Phone Calls and Conversations
08:30 < xray> http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations
08:30 < PigBot> Recording Phone Calls and Conversations | Digital Media Law Project (at www.dmlp.org) http://tinyurl.com/mzholpy
08:30 <@Corydon76> It is generally illegal to record a call to which you are not a party.
08:30 <@Corydon76> But in some states, you're required to get all parties to consent to recording.
08:31 <@Corydon76> Everywhere else, you can record your own calls without saying anything.
08:31 <@Corydon76> It's a legal gray area when you're IN a one-party state, but you call a two-party state or vice versa
08:50 < aestetix> man
08:50 < aestetix> I wanna see Robert Reich face off against Peter Schiff
08:52 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
08:52  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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09:27 <@Dagmar> There's nothing grey-area about it
09:28 <@Dagmar> If you're in a jurisdiction, that jurisdiction applies
09:37 < aestetix> hmmm
09:38 < aestetix> I just got a horrible idea
09:40 < aestetix> which user group would be more fun to troll: vim or emacs?
09:40 < aestetix> actually it's not even a question. emacs
09:44 < xray> yes
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10:03 <@Mirage> this looks VERY interesting.. https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/sop/d/drobo-b1200i-with-12x-2tb/6645818636.html
10:03 < PigBot> Drobo B1200i with 12x 2TB driver - computer parts - by owner - electronics sale (at dallas.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/yd3y6ejr
10:07 <@Mirage> Anyone have any experience with Drobo NAS/Storage products?
10:08 <@dasunt> systemd runs its own caching DNS?
10:08 <@Mirage> Dunno, I figured it still used NSCD
10:08 < aestetix> I'm so fucking tempted to learn emacs scripting just so I can write a "soap" and a "water" plugin
10:08 < aestetix> although I'd have to learn emacs first
10:08 <@Dagmar> dasunt: Why do you question something that has gone metastatic?
10:09 <@dasunt> Dagmar: It still amazes me.  It's like the Trump of software.  Someone can say something completely outlandish about it, and you still have to verify it.
10:09 <@Dagmar> I think they've given up all attempts to keep scope creep out, and have decided to just write a new everything
10:10 <@dasunt> Like if someone told me that systemd included its own javascript interpreter, I would think that doesn't sound right, but I'd still have to doublecheck.
10:11 <@Dagmar> ...because systemd-resolved, I can find no decent reason why it should exist, except as a means to create new posts on Bugtraq
10:11 <@dasunt> systemd-javascriptd
10:11 <@dasunt> Actually, not enough scope.  Maybe systemd-interpreter?  Could compile all sorts of languages to its own bytecode.
10:12 <@dasunt> Just think of the advantages!  Now you can write startup scripts in lua!  /s
10:12 <@Dagmar> systemd-scopecreepd
10:13 <@dasunt> It's the year 2022.  All processes are now systemd.
10:21 < aestetix> sig-heil.service
10:41 <@dasunt> All sysvinits were sent to the work camps.  They are much happier there.
10:44 <@dasunt> Does systemd have its own registry yet?
10:44 < aestetix> haha
10:44 < aestetix> regedit.service
10:47 <@Dagmar> dasunt: That's becaused they're sysv and their idea of fun is getting shit done
10:49 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: the legal gray area of calling between jurisdictions is difficult because traditional law doesn't really apply.  Some lawyers have suggested that if you PLACE the call, then you treat it as having visited the jurisdiction where you're calling.  Other legal experts have suggested using whichever jurisdiction is more strict.  But ultimately, it needs a court to decide.
10:51 <@Corydon76> And businesses, which are really the only entities worth suing over, will generally take the safe route, so there's no test case to be had.
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11:10 <@dasunt> BRB.
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11:12 <@dasunt> Back.
11:25 <@dasunt> Crap, I don't have logging on this terminal.  Thought I did.
11:26 <@dasunt> Well, missed that last response.
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12:40 <@Dagmar> Deloitte's policy was caller's jurisdiction applies
12:40 <@Dagmar> You can't take something based on TN jurisdiction and use it in some other state with different rules, but it absolutely applies with respect to anything inside of TN
13:43 <@Corydon76> Young v Hawaii was just published at the Ninth Circuit, holding that the Second Amendment protects the right to openly carry a firearm in public.
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14:16 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: Have you lost weight?   https://www.wbir.com/article/news/naked-man-was-doing-jumping-jacks-mcdonalds-restroom-police/51-576975311
14:16 < PigBot> wbir.com | Naked man was doing jumping jacks McDonald's restroom: police (at www.wbir.com) http://tinyurl.com/y95ajfk5
14:17 <@Dolemite> Naked redheaded man doing jumping jacks inside the restroom at the Nolensville Road McDonald's.
14:23 < ezelkow1[m]> dont be judging peoples celebratory poop jacks
14:26 <@Evilpig> we were laughing at that here earlier
14:27 <@Evilpig> I was getting onto the news for saying that he shouldn't be in the women's bathroom.  he might identify as female but he was too high to tell them coherently 
15:35 <@Mirage> I went ahead and got that Drobo B1200i that I linked earlier.  For $400 I just couldn't pass it up.
16:24 <@dasunt> Dagmar: Don't cases decided in another jurisdiction have some weight?  The decision isn't binding, but it isn't ignored either.
16:26 <@dasunt> Ah, found the term - persuasive precedent.
16:34 < ezelkow1[m]> nice, if i had a 2x12 drobo setup for 400$ near me Id probably get it too
17:30 <@eryc> what is a 2x12
19:27 < ezelkow1[m]> PigBot (IRC)
19:27 < ezelkow1[m]> 9:03AM
19:27 < ezelkow1[m]> Drobo B1200i with 12x 2TB driver - computer parts - by owner - electronics sale (at dallas.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/yd3y6ejr
19:27 < PigBot> Drobo B1200i with 12x 2TB driver - computer parts - by owner - electronics sale (at tinyurl.com) http://tinyurl.com/yd3y6ejr
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23:14 < K`Tetch> generall, if you call a all party state, all party will rule, even though federal 9which it should be since it's interstate0 says single party, because theres no easy way to tell if you're in an all party state if you're talkingto someone in or out of state
23:15 < K`Tetch> of course, to bring it back to the original topic, like insurance companies and hospitals, since they want to record, they have those messages saying 'calls may be recorded for training puropses' - thats consent to record there
--- Log closed Wed Jul 25 00:00:42 2018