--- Log opened Mon Jul 16 00:00:29 2018
01:09 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
03:04 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
03:04 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
03:04 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar] has joined #se2600
03:04 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dagmar] by ChanServ
03:15 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gzovoadvqvtcwerh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
03:46 -!- fie [~fie@185.52.224.9] has joined #se2600
04:00 <@_NSAKEY> Evilpig: That's one reason I like dealing with european hosts more. I had a VPS years ago, with super low specs (1 core that was 2.something GHz, 20 gigs of storage or so, and 128MB of RAM). They had a hardware failure, replaced their old server with a nicer one, and after that I got an upgrade to 50 gigs of storage and 1GB of RAM for the same money. They also gave me credit for the downtime, on top of
04:00 <@_NSAKEY> that.
04:00 <@_NSAKEY> It's worth pointing out that they were out of business within a year or so after that.
04:04 < aestetix> on the one hand, european hosts are great for servers. on the other hand, paying for it might be a bit of a pain :)
04:04 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: you'd know this... does hetzner take credit cards?
04:04 < aestetix> or do they only take bank transfers
04:05 < aestetix> I am pretty sure they require a german address to open an account, but maybe I'm wrong there too
05:48 <@_NSAKEY> You can do paypal and credit cards with them.
05:48 <@_NSAKEY> American addresses are fine, as well.
05:49 <@_NSAKEY> Never really had to use their support, so I can't speak to that, but if you want a better deal watch the serverbidding page. Every so often, they'll throw up some limited time deal that's a few euros/month less than anything else, and will have better specs than the next cheapest servers. That's how I got my current box.
06:00 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:10 < fie> https://i.imgur.com/29oJ8aH.png
06:12 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: FWIW, I only pay $11/month for DigitalOcean for openDCIM.   That's a 2-core server and includes daily snapshot backups.
06:36 <@Mirage> I think they went up, but HostMonster (where I have thehippo.org and the 2600 site used to be) was $10/mo and $5/mo extra for a static IP and ssl cert.
06:38 <@Dolemite> Of course, mine's a straight up VM.   You just tell it what flavor OS you want and it's provisioned.
06:38 <@Mirage> Yeah, just checked, they went up to $14.99/mo
06:38  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:39 <@Dolemite> Sorry, I pay $12/month, not $11.   It's $10 for the VM, and $2 for the backups.
06:39 < fie> ramnode
06:43 <@Dolemite> And, of course, the nice part is the DO is also a heavy contributor to several OSS projects.
06:52 -!- fie [~fie@185.52.224.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:45 < aestetix> europe is so wierd
07:45 < aestetix> I have a colleauge who just got back from a weeklong trip to madagascar
07:45 < aestetix> because why not
07:46 <@Corydon76> Did they bring back fresh cinnamon?
07:47 <@Corydon76> Or any number of other spices which are generally grown there?
07:52 < aestetix> not that I know of
07:52 < aestetix> apparently vanilla is a big thing there
07:53 < aestetix> that is, apparently 80% of the world's vanilla comes from there
08:30 <@Dolemite> yes, and vanilla is very expensive right now (relative to the past)
08:30 <@Dolemite> There's a bit of a shortage of natural vanilla
08:31 < aestetix> He did say he saw a bunch of police with machine guns
08:32 <@Dolemite> guarding the vanilla warehouse!
08:33 <@Corydon76> You know the cheap way to make vanilla extract, don't you?
08:33 <@Corydon76> Marinate a vanilla bean for 6-48 months in cheap vodka
08:34 <@Corydon76> The longer it sits, the better it is.
08:34 <@Corydon76> And after 12 months, it's much tastier than the store-bought stuff
08:37 < aestetix> Corydon76: any leftist/progressive podcasts you recommend?
08:37 < aestetix> The only one I know about is pod save america, and I found it.... too smug. But if you know of others, am all ears.
08:37 <@Corydon76> Yes, I like the leftist slant of the National Review
08:37 < aestetix> lol
08:38 <@Corydon76> Reason has some good podcasts, too
08:38 < aestetix> Althogh I did watch an opinion piece yesterday by Ana Kasparian that was really good. Makes me wonder if she's really smart and Cenk is just a douche who gets in her way
08:39 < aestetix> Yeah, I have reason on my rss
08:40 < aestetix> I'm not interested in hearing about privilege and the oppression olympics. I am very interested in hearing about projects designed to actually help raise the poor out of poverty, etc
08:41 <@Corydon76> The freakish focus on cutting taxes is the source of all other problems.  Raise the top tax bracket back up to 92%, as it was in the Eisenhower years, and then we can talk about what needs to be done.
08:42 <@Corydon76> You cannot spend your way into prosperity.  You've got to raise the funds, first.
08:42 < aestetix> Which would have the effect of rich people 1. hiring top lawyers to either find loopholes in the tax code or lobby congress to put them in 2. moving their assets offshore so they can't be taxed
08:43 <@Corydon76> 2 is not possible without giving up their citizenship
08:44 <@Corydon76> US is distinct among developed countries that we tax personal income no matter where it's earned
08:44 < aestetix> Yes, I know. :(
08:45 <@Corydon76> And I laught heartily at the millionaire who gave up his citizenship to duck taxes, then got into legal trouble elsewhere and found he could no longer rely on the US consulate to help him out
08:45 < aestetix> Although thankfully Germany has a double jeopardy clause where as long as I am paying into the german tax system, up to a certain income level I don't have to pay into the US tax system
08:46 < aestetix> yeah.....
08:46 < aestetix> That's just stupid.
08:46 <@Corydon76> And posted a snowflake article about how the US was mean to him
08:46 < aestetix> lol
08:46 <@Corydon76> Fucking conservative snowflake
08:47 <@Corydon76> Just as easy to offend as the liberal snowflakes they make fun of
08:47 < aestetix> That just sounds shortsighted
08:47 <@Corydon76> He made his bed, and now he's forced to lie in it
08:47 < aestetix> Or like someone who read Atlas shrugged instead of a history book
08:50 < aestetix> Jon Stewart had a line about that... about how Atlas Shrugged turns everyone who reads it into an asshole for about six months
09:03 < xray> This is a program for helping homeless people in Sacramento https://www.sacbee.com/news/article213820554.html
09:03 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Link?
09:04 <@Corydon76> dasunt: to?
09:04 <@dasunt> The millionaire who gave up his citizenship.
09:04 <@dasunt> Never heard about this.
09:05 <@Corydon76> It wasn't recent, a couple of years ago
09:07  * dasunt googles.
09:09 <@dasunt> Anyways, re: taxes - I'm okay with multi-millionaires deciding to leave the US.
09:09 <@dasunt> They shouldn't let the door hit them on the way out.  :)
09:10 <@dasunt> Huh, in 2015, 3,415 Americans gave up citizenship, but it appears most weren't wealthy, but had US citizenship they weren't using, and the reporting rules on accounts got stricter.
09:11 <@Corydon76> I also enjoy the two requirements:  first, they must not be in arrears on their US taxes, and second, they must pay a fairly high price.
09:11 <@dasunt> So it's basically Bob who as born to an American mother, lived his whole life in the UK, gives up citizenship so he doesn't get in trouble with not filing tax returns if he ever wants to visit the US.
09:12 <@dasunt> I agree with the arrears on US taxes (also, must not be currently charged with a crime, on the run from the law, etc, etc).
09:13 <@dasunt> But presumably their income was taxed already.
09:14 <@dasunt> Huh, haven't found that millionaire story, but I did find a post on JWZ's blog about some FB billionaire who renounced citizenship to avoid taxes.  And, it's pointed out, under current US law, if you do that, you can't reenter the US.
09:16 <@Dolemite> It's interesting that the only place I'm hearing about the WalkAway campaign is from the Facebook feeds of my Trumpist friends
09:16 <@Corydon76> dasunt: "Roger Ver"
09:16 < aestetix> Roger Ver. That's the bitcoin guy right?
09:16 <@Dolemite> I hadn't even heard of such a thing until aestetix asked about it last week
09:17 < aestetix> Dolemite: I see a bunch of them on youtube recommended
09:17 <@Corydon76> That's him.  Bitcoin Jesus
09:17 < aestetix> Dolemite: but that really means nothing, because their recommendation engine seems to be a random number generator.
09:18 <@Dolemite> Man, you must be into some really obscure porn for it to keep recommending that to you
09:18 < aestetix> lol
09:18 < aestetix> well one of the channels I watch is rubin report
09:18 < aestetix> which is probably why it's recommending the walkaway videos
09:18 < aestetix> and also why I know about roger ver
09:18 <@Corydon76> Dolemite: hasn't it been determined that the whole WalkAway thing is Russian propaganda?
09:19 < aestetix> Corydon76: I saw a page of twitter trends that seemed to suggest russians are promoting it
09:19 < aestetix> But I've watched two videos, and they seemed genuine
09:19 <@Dolemite> I don't know if it has been determined, but since I'm only seeing it in the context of people who love to post memes as if they are news articles, I'd say it has a decent chance of being propaganda.
09:19 <@dasunt> Dolemite: I haven't even heard about it from them, nor my shitposting crazy conservative group I'm part of.  But I've seen it in even crazier groups.
09:20 <@Dolemite> There may be some people who are "walking away" but they likely never really were Democrats to begin with.  You know, like Bernie Sanders.
09:20 < aestetix> well the problem with walking away is there's nothing to walk towards
09:20 < aestetix> So it's basically videos of people emo-quitting the democrats
09:21 <@Dolemite> It's their attempt at throwing a tantrum
09:21 <@Corydon76> It was also interesting the revelation last week that Russian trolls had registered a bunch of Twitter handles that sounded like legitimate local news organizations, which posted real news for 2 years, to get their reputation indices up before switching to propaganda during the campaign season
09:21 <@dasunt> The one walk-away video I saw was pro-Trump, and talked about how the libs wanted everyone to be a victim.
09:22 <@dasunt> Which I found to be ironic.
09:22 <@dasunt> Considering that the speaker also mentioned that white males like him are under attack.
09:23 <@Corydon76> lol
09:24 < aestetix> http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/
09:25 < aestetix> dasunt: "under attack" is really only an appropriate phrase if you read twitter :p
09:26 < aestetix> Well that's not entirely true. Google is currently getting sued for discriminatory hiring practices.
09:26 < aestetix> And there are cases of SJWs on twitter shaming conferences for their speaker lineups.
09:26 <@dasunt> aestetix: Sure, there's some white male hate, but as a class, it's one of the better classes to be in for privileges.
09:26 < aestetix> But not sure if I'd say that's under attack.
09:26 < aestetix> dasunt: well, life is a lot better for everyone if you reject intersectionality wholesale :)
09:28 <@dasunt> I see nothing wrong with using class as a broad tool to understand problems.  It's just when you apply it to individuals that it tends to be problematic.
09:29 < aestetix> And use it to shame people.
09:32  * dasunt ponders buying a Kindle Fire 8.
09:32 < aestetix> dasunt: I have seen it create enough damage that I reject it wholesale. If you see uses that work for you personally, great.
09:35 <@dasunt> It's like statistics.  Just don't apply it to an individual and expect it to tell the whole story.
09:36 < aestetix> ok that I can agree with
09:37 < aestetix> It can provide an explanation for X, but that doesn't mean it provides the correct explanation for X
09:37 < aestetix> Sometimes it does, sometimes not
09:39 <@dasunt> Yep.
09:40 <@dasunt> Since we're ranting about this, have you noticed just how many stories and commentaries there are that dont' include the source material?
09:40 < aestetix> Yes.
09:40 < aestetix> Also, how many stories there are where the author clearly didn't *read* the source matieral
09:40 <@dasunt> Reading a story right now about a dev that accused someone of mansplaining and got fired, and they don't have the guy's tweets.
09:41 < aestetix> in fact, let me share an example
09:41 < aestetix> that does not involve twitter or "mansplaining"
09:41 < aestetix> https://aestetix.com/2018/01/25/why-i-no-longer-read-news/
09:42 < aestetix> dasunt: warning, that blog post will piss you off :p
09:42 <@dasunt> Other thing I've noticed now is the new FB thing is apparently screenshots of headlines, instead of linking to the article.
09:42 <@dasunt> There was one I saw where the headline was about a woman killing her pedophile father and getting a sentence of nine years.
09:43 <@dasunt> Dug up the article - she killed her father, buried him in the backyard, and collected his pension for nine years before it was uncovered.  Then she claimed he was a pedophile.
09:44 <@dasunt> (Now I dont' know if he was or wasn't, but the details shines a different light on the story.)
09:45 < aestetix> yeah that's kind of important
09:46 <@Dagmar> That dev was an idiot
09:46 <@Dagmar> I read all the tweets
09:46 < aestetix> so glad I left twitter
09:48 <@dasunt> Found the tweets as well.  Agreed, dev is an idiot.
09:48 <@Dagmar> I'd argue that she was the incredibly sexist one
09:48 < aestetix> wait a second
09:49 < aestetix> is this the thing where the dev got into a pissing match with a streamer or something?
09:49 <@dasunt> Dagmar: Agreed.  I would not find that out of place in M2M dialog.
09:49 <@Dagmar> No, this is the thing where someone tried to outline the steps of a process this dev happened to do as a part of her job...
09:49 <@Dagmar> ...and then said dev accused the other person of "mansplaining"
09:49 < aestetix> well to be fair
09:49 <@Dagmar> No
09:50 < aestetix> whenever a word like "mansplaining" comes up I close the tab and open cat videos
09:50 <@Dagmar> If you dare say that any explanation from a man is "mansplaining" you're not qualified to participate in this discussion
09:50 <@dasunt> aestetix: Basically it's dev "I'm not sure if we could make a MMORPG character compelling", random guy "why not use a branching dialog option?", dev "thanks for telling me what we already do mansplainer!"
09:50 <@Dagmar> It was _shitty_ of her
09:50 < aestetix> Dagmar: no, I think it's a bullshit phrase created by fauxminists to grandstand
09:51 <@Dagmar> Well they certainly use it for that
09:51 < aestetix> So it sounds like the guy was a douche to her, and then she was a douche right back to him
09:51 < aestetix> so they deserve each other, and we deserve for that to be not on twitter :p
09:52 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-milrnmhwrnrtxklk] has joined #se2600
09:52 <@dasunt> aestetix: The guy really didn't sound like a douche (I summarized and paraphrased his dialog), but he did basically do the blatently obvious thing people tend to do when trying to opine.
09:53 <@Dagmar> Yeah he wasn't being a douch
09:53 <@Dagmar> e
09:53 < aestetix> I haven't seen any of it
09:53 < aestetix> ok
09:53 <@dasunt> YMMV.  I take it as the equivalent of me saying "my tomatoes aren't growing well this year" and you asking if I used fertilizer.  I probably already thought of that or tried it, but you aren't a mansplaining douche for saying that.
09:54 < aestetix> so he was offering unsolicited advice
09:54 <@Dagmar> Partially
09:55 <@Dagmar> God forbid anyone attempt to help anyone else online
09:55 < aestetix> sounds like the guy was a little socialliy clueless
09:55 <@Dagmar> Nope
09:55 < aestetix> oh ok
09:55 <@Dagmar> Stop assuming the guy has to have done something wrong
09:55 <@Dagmar> The dev chick literally pulled an attitude and accused him of being sexist in a rather public way
09:56 < aestetix> got it
09:56 <@Dagmar> ...except what was going on had eff-all to do with sexism.
09:56 <@Dagmar> That having been said, firing was overkill
09:56 <@Dagmar> But hey, witch hunts are the new standard now.
09:56 <@Dagmar> Thanks social justice warriors!
09:56 < aestetix> wiat
09:56 < aestetix> who got fired?
09:56 < aestetix> she got fired?
09:56 < aestetix> or he did
09:56 <@Dagmar> Yep
09:57 < aestetix> ok
09:57 <@Dagmar> The dev who made the claim of mansplaining got fired
09:57 <@Dagmar> ...as well as another dev
09:57 < aestetix> what did the other dev do?
09:57 <@Dagmar> Backed up the first idiot dev
09:57 < aestetix> Like, I can see her getting fired, especially if her company is listed on her twitter profile
09:57 <@Dagmar> They were both basically jackasses
09:58 < aestetix> Sorry, I'm tired and I misread what dasunt said earlier. Yeah, that seems totally crazy.
09:58 < aestetix> Seems like a reasonable response would have been "we tried that, it didn't work because of X and Y"
09:58 <@dasunt> I wonder if this was the last straw for the company.  I'd hate to be on a dev team with her and criticize a decision she made.
09:59 <@Dagmar> I'd have offered her pistols at dawn over that kind of an accusation
10:00 < aestetix> I mean....
10:00 < aestetix> It honestly sounds like a reasonable workplace policy is to ban twitter unless using twitter is explicitly in your job description
10:03 < aestetix> How do these flareups keep happening?
10:04 <@dasunt> The internet communities as well as the gaming communities are filled with individuals with too much time on their hands and not enough drama in their lives.
10:07 <@Dagmar> ...and there's always some blogger looking to make a name for themselves by being the first to publicly identify a new monstrosity or pariah
10:07 <@Dagmar> This is not a new thing
10:08 <@Dagmar> Remember, at one point I had some woman going around trying to take _my_ comments out of context to claim I was a terrible sexist because I'd said I would bloody _love_ to have some women in the offices I work in
10:08 < aestetix> what?
10:08 <@Dagmar> They could be underqualified and I wouldn't care
10:08 <@Dagmar> It's been over 20 years since I've had a female coworker in any department I've been in pretty much
10:09 <@Dagmar> I mean I literally stated I would do my damnedest to help women in tech because of their shortage, and this somehow made me a sexist
10:10 <@Dagmar> ...and this woman went around to a bunch of the hacker scenesters schlepping this bullshit
10:10 <@Dagmar> Many of whom *knew me* and weren't buying her bullshit
10:11 <@Dagmar> My first thought was "Why the fuck was this woman schlepping a forum post around to other people like this?"
10:26 < K`Tetch_> 09:37:26 «aestetix» Corydon76: any leftist/progressive podcasts you recommend? <-- BBC world News update
10:28 < aestetix> lolol
10:30 < K`Tetch_> probably leftist to you anyway
10:31 < aestetix> yeah because I'm to the right of hitler :)
10:31 <@dasunt> But luckily not a libertarian, so you can be redeemed.  ;)
10:32 < aestetix> hahahah
10:32 < K`Tetch_> reality has a leftist bias...
10:32 < aestetix> reality winner? I would agree
10:43 <@Dolemite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30RX1yi2V9c
10:50 <@dasunt> Reality in general does have a liberal bias.
11:04 <@dasunt> Anyways, started reading Stross's "Empire Games", which is set in a timeline where it's 17 years after a huge terrorist attack on the US, and I feel like Stross, as a Brit, doesn't get how crazy the US would be.
11:05 <@dasunt> All he has that's really different from the ordinary is random DHS checkpoints, with a small percentage of people going through the checkpoint getting pulled aside for quick (10 minutes) DNA tests to make sure their DNA matches the one on file for their ID.
11:06 <@Corydon76> dasunt: Um, it's not exactly 17 years after a huge terrorist attack on the US, NOW?
11:06 <@dasunt> Otherwise, the phone monitoring, secret warrants to backdoor phones, etc, is already in play (although not to the degree as in the books).
11:06 <@dasunt> Corydon76: This was a timeline where terrorists managed to nuke Washington.
11:07 <@Corydon76> We're pretty much exactly the same, except that we have a number of hugely incompetent government agencies.
11:07 <@dasunt> 9/11 also happened in this timeline, btw.  POD would be 2003.
11:08 <@Corydon76> If someone managed to nuke DC, I think we wouldn't have a huge amount of surveillance internally, really
11:08 <@dasunt> It is almost as if Stross wanted to show just how bad it could get with the security state that was created after 9/11.
11:09 <@dasunt> But we're most of the way there withotu another major attack.
11:09 <@Corydon76> The country would probably fragment, honestly
11:09 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Internal sureillance makes sense in context, due to the nature of the attack (the book's SF).
11:11 <@Corydon76> If it hit while Congress was in session, we'd have a huge deficit in leadership for 20 years, very likely
11:11 <@Corydon76> And that generally leads to Balkanization
11:12 <@Corydon76> As less mature politicians seek to shore up their regional credentials
11:12 <@dasunt> IDK.  Woudln't most states be able to replace congresscritters?
11:13 <@Corydon76> A lot of what we're able to do depends upon senior Congress critters teaching the newer set how Congress works and getting them into line
11:13 <@Corydon76> When you have political newcomers in Congress, what you get is inaction
11:14 <@Corydon76> Lack of compromise for the greater good is the major problem
11:14 <@Corydon76> Balkanization is the result, as each state attempts to go it alone
11:14 <@Corydon76> with varying degrees of success
11:15 <@dasunt> My gut feelnig is that congress is pretty reasonably replaced.  The DC institutions, maybe not so much.
11:15 <@Dolemite> let's please try
11:15 <@Dolemite> either or all of the above
11:17 <@eryc> make sure the replacements are all rich old white men
11:18 <@dasunt> After all, we have fifty state congresses to draw people from.
11:20 <@dasunt> OTOH, dealing with fed government, well, just how much of major US programs are centered in DC?
11:23 <@Corydon76> That depends upon what you're talking about.  Our administrative offices are mainly in DC, along with leadership
11:23 <@dasunt> Jesus fucking Christ.
11:23 <@dasunt> Anyways, burn out, #insertstockranthere.
11:23 <@Corydon76> But when it comes to the programs themselves, as well as grunt work, that's distributed around the country
11:24 <@Corydon76> For example, when we applied for nonprofit status, the application was examined in Ohio somewhere, although the application itself was scanned in elsewhere, and not DC
11:25 <@Corydon76> When you pay taxes, there's centers around the country which process them
11:25 <@Corydon76> And think about the number of FBI field offices
11:26 <@Corydon76> And it's likely that the main record systems aren't even in DC, but in some distribution center elsewhere
11:26 <@Corydon76> Probably northern Virginia, if I had to guess
11:26 <@Corydon76> and probably underground, too
11:31 <@eryc> i think most of it is just in heavily guarded buildings
11:31 <@Corydon76> Yes, but where?  Inside the blast radius of a hypothetical nuke on DC, or outside?
11:33 <@eryc> i'm glad i don't live in DC anymore
11:33 <@eryc> everyone always talks about nuking it
11:34 <@rhia> We don't have leadership in DC to worry about. What we currently have in DC is an abusive GOP, a a battered spouse syndrome Democratic party struggling to pretend everything is fine, normal, just like it's always been, no, really, don't make any changes, don't upset the elephant!
11:34 <@rhia> The only thing nuking DC would accomplish is ruining some landscape and giving Putin the hardest hardon of his lifetime
11:34 <@Corydon76> Depending upon the size of the bomb, I might be within the blast radius of a nuke on Clarksville (military installation) or just outside of it (to say nothing if the bomb is aimed by people who don't have the best targeting systems)
11:35 <@eryc> i'm sure Clarksville is pretty low on the list
11:39 <@eryc> they used to have an air base here but it was retired so you can sleep well knowing i won't get nuked and can repopulate the planet
11:39 <@rhia> nuking DC would be a symbolic gesture against democracy, like striking an emblem of America's wealth by taking down the WRC towers
11:39 <@eryc> can't they just burn it down like the old days
11:39 <@eryc> why is it always nukes
11:40 <@rhia> bases where the nuclear subs are based might be a bit higher on the target list
11:40 <@rhia> eryc, scariest monster most folks can think of -- also, BIG BOOM!!!
11:41 <@eryc> would you actually hear it
11:41 <@rhia> annihilation by smallpox or some such doesn't make for good entertaining TV
11:42 <@rhia> (WTC - bah, rented fingers)
11:42 <@eryc> wouldn't your ears melt off before the sound waves got to you
11:42 <@Corydon76> Also, contrary to the scifi plots, the aftermath isn't that it remains uninhabitable for thousands of years.  It's uninhabitable for about 2 weeks.
11:43 <@Corydon76> And after a week, you're good to come in for limited amounts of time.
11:43 <@Corydon76> (unprotected, that is)
11:44 <@rhia> could all be academic now anyway after Trump's fawning over Putin this morning that he couldn't see any reason why Russia would interfere in our elections
11:44 <@Corydon76> I have to remind myself of Hanlon's Razor daily
11:45 <@Corydon76> Incompetent ball of orange, not evil mastermind.
11:45 <@rhia> it was a press conference staring Russian Intelligence and American Willful Ignorance (Ineptness, Inability, Stupidity . . . )
11:46 <@rhia> starring, too
11:48 <@rhia> (altho there were plenty of moments of gasps and dumbfounded staring from the gathered press)
11:52 < aestetix> wow
11:52 < aestetix> Trump just sided with Russia over the FBI
11:52 < aestetix> at least that's the headline on the BBC
11:56 <@rhia> Trump sided with the most successful Russian intelligence officer over 3 separate branches of US intelligence
11:56 <@rhia> and where are Hilary's emails!?!?!111?
11:57 <@rhia> yes, the orange one actually asked that during the press conference
11:59 <@dasunt> LOL, I often revisit Hanlon's razor on Trump.
11:59 <@rhia> another way of looking this morning is that the top Russian intelligence officer and his most prized asset gave a joint press conference
11:59 <@dasunt> Pro-Russian useful idiot still wins out versus the pee tape hypothesis.
12:00 <@rhia> the pee-tape is NOT what the Russians have on Trump -- Trump's base would LOVE that he paid hookers to pee on the bed that black man Obama slept it
12:01 <@rhia> Trump really likes dictators, he's a dictator groupie/wannabe
12:03 <@Dolemite> Trump wants dat server, though!   He's sure if he can just get "that server" he can recover those 30,000 deleted emails!
12:03 <@rhia> There were times when Trump was talking that Putin could not completely hide his contempt
12:04 <@rhia> yeah, that server is apparently the ONLY "proof" that the DNC was hacked - that's it, and only it, nothing else to see here
12:07 <@Dolemite> Well you've got one leader that knows and uses all of the intelligence at his disposal on side, and on the other a leader that tries to prove he has no intelligence with every word that comes out of his mouth.
12:16 <@dasunt> IDK.  Trump's behavior can be explained by him being an asset, but OTOH, it can also be explained by him being so fragile that he can't admit the Russians helped him.
12:17 <@Dolemite> Is there a difference?
12:54 <@dasunt> Dolemite: In cause?  Sure.  In effect?  No.
12:55 <@dasunt> So in that Jessica Price's twitter feed (or whatever her name is), she links to someone's fundraiser for medical costs on GoFundMe.
12:55 <@dasunt> I clicked on it, and finally looked at that tab.
12:55 <@rhia> IF Putin has dirt on Trump, it'd likely be for laundering Russian mob money thru his golf courses and other businesses
12:55 <@dasunt> The GFM user is saying they need (among other things) new prescription glasses, since theirs broke, and that'll cost them $414.
12:56 <@dasunt> ???  Anyone with bi/trifocales, how much do they cost?
12:56 <@rhia> but Trump is simple minded enough to just really love him some dictators
12:56 <@rhia> dasunt, easily over $400 if you don't have insurance and want lenses that don't scratch before walking out the door
12:56 <@dasunt> rhia: Even from places like Zenni optical?
12:57 <@rhia> tell them to go talk with the Lion's Club if they need glasses
12:57 <@dasunt> (Sorry, I haven't worn glasses in about 10 years now, so I don't know.)
12:58 <@rhia> dasunt, oh, they may could get really cheap bi/tri-focals somewhere, sounds like they want some slightly better than rock-bottom quality
12:59 <@rhia> which, considering lowest quality can often not be ground correctly and cause headaches, etc might not be as selfish as it may seem at 1st
13:01 <@Dolemite> No line bifocals are what really crank the price up
13:02 <@rhia> now, if they just need simple lenses and want fancy frames, that's a different story -- the far vast majority of available frames are made by the same company
13:02 <@Dolemite> I swear I will never get them again - not because of the price, but because you have such a small area of your glasses that you can actually read through.
13:02 <@Dolemite> Typically each coating you need adds $25-$50 to the cost
13:02 <@Dolemite> So anti-glare/UV is one
13:02 <@Dolemite> Transitions (auto darkening sunglasses) is another
13:02 <@Dolemite> Anti-scratch
13:03 <@Dolemite> Boom, there's $150 for things that you'd pretty much just assume are needed
13:08 <@dasunt> The GFM recipient also has strange health problems and a doctor that has tested her for (among other things) Lyme.  A doctor that's also not part of Medicare....
13:10 <@dasunt> Hmmm.  Never did the transitions glasses.
13:11 <@dasunt> Thought that was supposedly bad for the eyes or something.
13:12 <@Dolemite> The no-line is called Progressive Bifocal.   That may be what you were thinking of.
13:12 <@Dolemite> Transitions is the auto-sunglasses feature and it's great.
13:13 <@dasunt> https://aestetix.com/2018/01/25/why-i-no-longer-read-news/
13:13 <@dasunt> https://aestetix.com/2018/01/25/why-i-no-longer-read-news/
13:13 <@dasunt> https://aestetix.com/2018/01/25/why-i-no-longer-read-news/
13:13 <@dasunt> Whoops.
13:13 <@dasunt> Anyways, I was feeling bad about picking up a backup pair of eyeglasses from some cheap internet shop.
13:14 <@dasunt> But now that you are talking about the costs from what is presumably a regular shop, I have no sympathy.
13:14 <@Dolemite> Costco has really good pricing
13:15 <@rhia> I no longer watch national news, but not reading news (esp if able to discern missing information as that rant implies) just kind of smacks of willful ignorance
13:15 <@Dolemite> Lenscrafters is one of the bait-and-switch places...   yeah, you can get a pair of glasses for $50, if you already have your frames, and you don't need bifocals or any coatings.
13:15 <@dasunt> rhia: Sorry, that was from earlier.
13:16 <@rhia> dasunt, yeah, but when you repeated it three times, seemed it wanted a reply <g>
13:17 <@dasunt> LOL.  I just right-clicked three times by mistake.
13:17 <@rhia> twitchy fingers
13:17 <@dasunt> HOW DO COMPUTERS WORK?
13:18 <@rhia> heh
13:20 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
13:20 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Changing host]
13:20 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
13:21 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
13:32 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
13:34 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:37 < xray> The problem with online classes is measuring the interpupillary distance correctly and also measuring optical pupillary center in reference to the frames and your face. If either or both are off you will have blurry vision.
13:38 < xray> Also you need to be able to tell them where you want the line for the middle distance if you wear trifocals
13:38 < xray> I've yet to find an online vendor that properly handles any of this
13:39 < xray> I'm looking into buying cheap frames online and only getting the lenses from the brick and mortar vendor
13:39 < xray> assuming they will even let you do that
13:40 < xray> There is also the geometry of the nose arch. You have to try the frames to see if they fit OK. Kind of hard to do online.
13:41 < xray> Wow Zenni's frame prices are really good
13:44 < xray> and they have the bridge measurement option
14:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has joined #se2600
14:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Changing host]
14:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
14:46 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@47.39.211.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
15:29 <@dasunt> xray: Doesn't the eye doctor have your interpupillary distance on the prescription?
15:29 < xray> Good question
15:29 < xray> I'll have to look
15:30 < xray> What I would like to find is a open source system that uses a web cam to do what the Lens Crafter system does.
15:32 <@dasunt> That would be awesome.
15:33 <@Corydon76> Isn't the usual problem with those is that they're considered medical devices and need special (expensive) government approval before they're allowed to be used?
15:36 < xray> The system is called Accufit
15:39 < xray> Then again maybe the system doesn't do what it claims https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/818815-lenscrafters-class-action-challenges-accufit-superiority/
15:41 < xray> open source 3D printable frames but wow are they ugly https://www.frameopensource.org/
18:21 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxunlsnchsvzgqlz] has joined #se2600
20:33 <@dasunt> So I guess Pintrest, if it gets your email, sends you pictures you may like based on what you look before.
20:33 <@dasunt> My wife, who is partially Jewish, somehow ended up on their mailing list.
20:33 <@dasunt> She must have browsed Pintrest for Holocaust pictures.
20:33 <@dasunt> Now Pintrest is sending her emails of images she may be interested in.  All Holocaust pictures.
20:34 <@dasunt> AI Fail.
21:31 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-milrnmhwrnrtxklk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
23:14 <@eryc> so how did they know she is jewish
23:14 <@eryc> you think they just guessed that
23:15 <@eryc> maybe she was searching for monorahs and train crashes
23:16 <@eryc> do not question the robots
23:20 <@dasunt> eryc: I think she was looking at Holocaust pictures.
23:24 <@dasunt> And that was enough for the AI.
23:29 <@eryc> what's the best season to look at Holocaust pictures?
23:46 <@dasunt> Winter?  IDK.
--- Log closed Tue Jul 17 00:00:31 2018