--- Log opened Wed Jul 04 00:00:11 2018
00:20 < aestetix> nice
00:20 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: against alex jones, right?
00:20 < aestetix> as much as I hate lawsuit culture, I wish more people would file libel lawsuits
00:20 < aestetix> since the news in the US is so bad, maybe that would encourage them to actually check their facts before running to press
00:22 < K`Tetch_> no, he's defending alex jones, against the sandy hook families
00:22 < aestetix> oh I misread
00:22 < K`Tetch_> and I've been threatned with libel before, it's not a nice feeling, especially as it's a civil thing, so it's all about who has money
00:22 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: well is there another way, short of voting with your dollars, of making sure news sites stick to the facts?
00:23 < aestetix> since the market clearly isn't working there
00:23 < K`Tetch_> generally, 'news' does stick tot he facts, it's the op-ed sites posing as news that doesn't
00:23 < aestetix> yes, but this is a new phenomenon
00:23 < aestetix> well, "new" as of probably post 2000
00:24 < K`Tetch_> and the deficiency isn't the news org side, it's the gullible fuckwits in the general citizentry thats the problem
00:24 < aestetix> or maybe I just watch a bunch of old videos from pre 1995, but there is a clear differnce in how news reporting used to be done
00:24 < K`Tetch_> that was before '24hr news cycles' really came about
00:24 < aestetix> maybe I can put it this way. I can point to several gold standards of journalism from the 60s, 70s, and 80s
00:24 < aestetix> I can't point to a single one now
00:25 < aestetix> they include robert caro's work, woodward and bernstein, etc
00:25 < K`Tetch_> there's lots
00:26 < aestetix> please tell me
00:26 < K`Tetch_> like most things though, you can't appreciate it for what it is for years
00:26 < aestetix> happy to add them to my RSS feed
00:26 < aestetix> yeah but they can easily earn my trust
00:26 < aestetix> if I sense something is fishy, I'll read the sources, and see if they match up with reporting
00:26 < K`Tetch_> woodward had his bad patches, but you forget that because of his pentagon papers work
00:27 < aestetix> if the report has a different conclusion from me but the facts are good, then I'm fine with it
00:27 < K`Tetch_> and the job market is a lot more fluid now than then.
00:27 < aestetix> well isn't that true of all fields
00:27 < aestetix> by fluid you mean it's hard to tell between bloggers and journalists now
00:27 < K`Tetch_> which means that reports change orgs frequently. i'v 3 friends who write for 4-5 different places, motherboard, dslreports, techdirt etc.
00:28 < K`Tetch_> that too, the barriers to access have lowered
00:28 < aestetix> you know, I've noticed this with HOPE actually
00:28 < K`Tetch_> which is why moldovians made a killing the last 2 years
00:28 < aestetix> I can think of a few reporters who consistently apply to be press over the years
00:28 < aestetix> and always from new organizations
00:28 < aestetix> "yeah I was with vice last time, I'm with wired now" and so on
00:29 < aestetix> actually I was wrong. I can give examples of gold standards today. however, they all came of age in earlier generations
00:29 < aestetix> james bamford comes to mind
00:30 < K`Tetch_> I have a friend 9known him for 15 years from EFnet) and 8 years ago, he applied to work at torrentfreak under me. 3 eyars ago he was the editor in chief and launched arstechnica UK, now he's with a different org
00:30 < aestetix> he got originally known for the puzzle palace, but he was also the first to break the NSA Bluffdale story
00:31 < aestetix> like, anything comes out with his name on it, I know it's gonna be good
00:31 < K`Tetch_> i've done a little resaerch work recently with a guy you might also have heard of - duncan campbell.
00:31 < aestetix> hmmmm
00:31 < aestetix> does he do a history podcast?
00:32 < K`Tetch_> I've known his husband about 20 years now, his husband kinda helped me get started at torrentfreak
00:32 < aestetix> that name sounds familiar
00:32 < K`Tetch_> no, he's the reporter who broke the echelon story
00:32 < aestetix> oh wow
00:33 < K`Tetch_> he's freelance now
00:33 < aestetix> I was thinking mike duncan
00:33 < K`Tetch_> guy who used to be tech editor at the guardian, now freelance
00:33 < K`Tetch_> even I shop work around a bunch, despite having worked for TF for 11 years
00:34 < aestetix> hmmm
00:34 < aestetix> so one thing I will say
00:35 < aestetix> I notice that both the washington post and the ny times have really, really droped in quality in the last few years
00:35 < K`Tetch_> its the change with computers and net connections. I can work for a dutch org (torrentfreak) or a california org 9techdirt) and not leave central GA
00:35 < aestetix> and I wonder if it's because their good journalists are all leaving
00:36 < aestetix> and "drop in quality" isn't just "I don't agree with it"
00:36 < K`Tetch_> no, that's easily explained by a 2014 study by Routledge
00:36 < aestetix> I mean specifically stories that exclude facts that refute their claims, get facts wrong, have typos in them, etc
00:36 < aestetix> oh?
00:37 < K`Tetch_> he and a team observed that the more people reported having major disruptions and uncertainties in their lives, the more they nostalgically longed for the past. Routledge suggests that by invoking the idea of an idealized past, politicians can provoke the social and cultural anxieties and uncertainties that make nostalgia especially attractive — and effective — as a tool of political persuasion.
00:37 < aestetix> link to study?
00:38 < aestetix> oh so you're suggesting that news has always been this bad and I'm just thinking it used to be better
00:38 < K`Tetch_> C. Sedikides, T. Wildschut, C. Routledge, & J. Arndt (2014). "Nostalgia counteracts self-discontinuity and restores self-continuity" European Journal of Social Psychology, 10.1002/ejsp.2073
00:38 < K`Tetch_> somewhat
00:38 < K`Tetch_> don't have any better links, because I'm also trying to play STO
00:38 < aestetix> STO?
00:38 < K`Tetch_> I actually popped on here first, to ask if anyone's got any experience with Keybase
00:39 < aestetix> oh sorry lol
00:39 < K`Tetch_> Star Trek Online
00:40 < K`Tetch_> they just released a new expansion, redoing deep space nine and adding in the Jem'hadar 2 weeks ago. Plus the Risa summer event startedtoday
00:41 < aestetix> oh ok that's outside my domain of expertise :)
00:41 < K`Tetch_> i've been playing for 5.5 years, since it went free to play
00:41 < aestetix> not that I'm an expert in complaining about journalism either...
00:41 < K`Tetch_> in fact, made my first ever in game purchase last night
00:42 < K`Tetch_> but, no, no experience with keybase?
00:43 < aestetix> not here. I refuse to use it on principle :)
00:43 < aestetix> which means I can't help with your question
00:43 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
00:43 < K`Tetch_> what principle?
00:43 < K`Tetch_> i'm wondering if i should is all
00:43 < aestetix> two big things
00:44 < aestetix> first, I think the use of pgp as a social network system is a bad idea and harmful. I have actually written tools to try to stop people from using the keyservers
00:44 < aestetix> second, and I realize in direct contradiction to my first principle, keybase keeps their key repository private. every other keyserver is fully public
00:45 < aestetix> third, at least when I tested this out a couple years ago, if you are a new user and create a key, they hold your private key on their server by default
00:45 < aestetix> the summary is that I actually think the whole concept of publicly shared keyservers that have linked trust is bad and harmful
00:46 < aestetix> hopefully that helps clarify
01:46 -!- LastChild [~RasPi@c-68-53-5-70.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
01:46 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o LastChild] by ChanServ
07:44 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600
13:49 -!- Mirage [~mirage@ra.thehippo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
13:53 -!- Mirage [~mirage@ra.thehippo.net] has joined #se2600
13:53 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Mirage] by ChanServ
16:58 -!- NotLarry [~NotLarry@c-68-53-121-109.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:03 -!- NotLarry [~NotLarry@c-68-53-121-109.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
17:03 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o NotLarry] by ChanServ
17:13 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bybwaewpjvjiwmub] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20:03 -!- ^020d [~^020d@108-192-158-126.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #se2600
23:19 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ezrrmoetdictdlui] has joined #se2600
--- Log closed Thu Jul 05 00:00:13 2018