--- Log opened Sun Jun 17 00:00:46 2018
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05:05 <@Dagmar> I'm waiting for Larry Wall to tweet that they're going to be porting perl6 to C
05:34 < aestetix> you mean to javascript
05:35 < aestetix> siderant
05:35 < aestetix> there is a service I had to start using, and I was so happy because it doesn't have any javascript at all
05:35 < aestetix> and then I had to set up backups for it
05:35 < aestetix> and sure enough, you install their backup tool with npm :(
11:22 <@eryc> i think perl was written in C
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13:09 <@Dagmar> eryc: That's rather the point
13:13 <@eryc> perl6 is pretty irrelevant to pretty much everyone
13:14 <@eryc> nobody enjoys maintaining the perl5 code today
13:15 <@eryc> if you are starting a new microservice or project, you'd be a fool to do it in perl
13:15 <@eryc> but
13:15 <@eryc> if you have to process text and use a bunch of regexes perl is great
13:16 <@eryc> except i have to lookup snippets to do the basics like opening a file, etc. but give me an array of strings and perl and i'll write some damn good regexes
13:16 <@eryc> so it's basically like a really good regex engine thats a step above sed and awk
13:17 <@eryc> which basically means if your text parsing is too complicated for sed and awk in a bash script then perl is a very good next option
13:18 <@eryc> and this only applies to unstructured text
13:19 <@eryc> if you want an HTML or XML tree you need to be using python
13:19 <@ezelkow1> or when your project was originally started by a bunch of devops guys who thought perl was the greatest thing ever and so now your stuck with it
13:19 <@ezelkow1> as it slowly all gets rewritten in go
13:19 <@eryc> <eryc> nobody enjoys maintaining the perl5 code today
13:20 <@eryc> :)
13:21 <@eryc> once upon a time perl was the greatest thing ever but if you think you're "devops" then that term was coined well past perl's expiration date and we all got stuck with java instead
13:21 <@ezelkow1> as much shit as we give it at work, at least it was easy enough to hop in and make changes without even knowing perl, compared to the c/c+ program I also work in, where you could stare at its codebase for a year and still not know anything
13:22 <@ezelkow1> yea the term was coined later, but the guys who wrote it all came from a devopsy/networking/IT(but not basic IT) background, then they brought in the engineers to make it a viable product
13:23 <@ezelkow1> https://github.com/apache/trafficcontrol
13:23 <@eryc> i kinda figured that was the case, but yea with any company with legacy code that's of sufficient age, there's gonna be perl
13:23 < PigBot> GitHub - apache/trafficcontrol: Apache Traffic Control (at github.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycpjau7c
13:24 <@eryc> and if you're maintaining perl at least its not ksh
13:25 <@eryc> for a load balancer the best language is Go
13:26 <@eryc> for anything that needs to scale on 1 system, still Go
13:27 <@eryc> for anything you wrote in Go and coule have scaled across machines, you should have used Python
13:27 <@ezelkow1> yea, well in that project the grove dir is small light caching server written all in go, cause currently use apache trafficserver which is the C behemoth I mostly work in, and its so convoluted
13:27 <@ezelkow1> so we wanted something that at least for linear video would be easy to use
13:28 <@eryc> if you write javascript that runs outside of the browser you're a fool and should learn Python3 async (faster than node.js) or Go
13:30 <@eryc> also Python has a 27 year history and a solid package repo, whereas Go has very little and offers marginal performance compared to Py3/async
13:31 <@eryc> so if you want to build something that's super fast and maintainable by only a few Go programmers, and you'll probably not touch the code again in 3-5 years - definitely choose Go
13:33 <@eryc> otherwise Python3 is way less typing but it can be typed as well
13:34 <@eryc> find any simple code example in Go and I'll show you a more clear and smaller Python3 equivalent
13:35 <@eryc> and then let's get into the toolchains
13:36 <@eryc> does Go have an IDE with static analysis?
13:37 <@eryc> can you attach a graphical step debugger to a running Go program?
13:38 <@eryc> Go is basically the new Erlang, and thank god for that
13:39 <@eryc> but if you didn't need Erlang over the past 10 years then you probably don't need to use Go
13:53 <@eryc> in a job posting for Python they might ask if you have Django, Pandas, NumPy, SciPy, or Tensorflow experience
13:53 <@eryc> in a job posting for Go they ask for.. what?
13:55 <@eryc> in a job posting for Perl they don't ask questions because they're just glad they found someone to maintain their legacy code
13:55 <@eryc> same applies to POJO and Spring
13:59 <@eryc> Java isn't portable if it depends on CPU-specific binaries
14:01 <@eryc> the RTT to compile and run is completely terrible in Java
14:02 <@eryc> i can only imagine the billions of hours people of spent waiting on a JVM to load
14:03 <@eryc> but that's ok because we consider that wasted time an investment in our core products and Java lets us adapt as technology evolves
14:05 <@eryc> so now you've built this super JIT'd up -fPIC bytecode and has a 100:1 ratio on LoC per function because you wanted to give the compiler all thie data and that's why it's worth the extra time
14:07 <@eryc> so then you're like great, let's add a session replication layer and start scaling this horizontally - brilliant!
14:08 <@eryc> except your database software, your database mode, you code object mapping for that database, and pretty much every abstract object in Java is a complete waste of time
14:08 <@eryc> *model
14:11 <@eryc> the choice of language for microservices based on performance alone, is less than 1ms and everything else is a static file CDN and a database written in C/C++/C# that is always going to be the bottleneck no matter what web framework you choose. And the Django ORM is the best in the business by far.
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14:31 <@eryc> ezelkow1: did you see my rant or should i pastebin it
14:32 <@eryc> also i thought you worked for SlingTV or something
14:33 <@eryc> building super DVRs or something
14:34 <@eryc> i hooked my old TiVo the other day to the air antenna
14:35 <@eryc> it said i needed an active service account to watch any of the stations it detected
14:35 <@eryc> you'd think they could at least make the pause button free
15:02 <@ezelkow1> hah, nah i saw it
15:02 <@ezelkow1> and I used to work for dish/echostar on the set top box code, but I quit last october, place is a mess
15:10 <@eryc> i left my job in march, place got acquired a month later
15:11 <@eryc> i'm building a SaaS app for callcenters
15:12 <@eryc> you wanna buy it?
15:15 <@eryc> it's super cheap and i'm doing a promo during the first year for free migration services
15:16 <@eryc> it won't be available until later this year tho
15:16 <@eryc> so just in time for 2019 budget planning
15:19 <@eryc> every cost is pro-rated based on usage with an average cost of $2-3 per user
15:22 <@eryc> as a layer on Google Cloud Platform the goal is to translate those platform costs into growth discounts applied proportionally
15:24 <@eryc> this is an E2E at-rest encrypted solution that complies with all regulations
15:24 <@ezelkow1> heh, well i have absolutely no say in any of that stuff, they have all their own groups for callcenter software
15:26 <@eryc> it is not actually specific to callcenters so if you would like to buy it for your group that is also an option
15:27 <@eryc> i can offer a self-hosted option but it will add significant cost
15:30 <@eryc> actually i think i will offer a concurrent user option as well, such that you can have unlimited users and only pay for utilization
15:32 <@eryc> i could easily make this a docker image but you'd lose all the reliability and redundancy that GCP offers
15:35 <@eryc> so my business proposal is to offer not a stack or a platform, but to implement and monitor that platform with a value-added and reasonably priced service built on top with trivial horizontal scalability.
15:38 <@eryc> my goal is not to present at DisrupticonSF or be a theme on Silicon Valley, my goal is to make as little profit as possible because i only need to improve the platform rather than hire 30 sales guys and a board room of assholes.
15:42 <@eryc> there are at least 500,000 forks of the same idea but I've brought 20 years of engineering from the floor up experience
15:43 <@eryc> my first customer was paying $300/user per month and my goal is to make that $3
15:47 <@eryc> and the price is just this imaginary number to large companies so it really doesn't matter unless you care about the efficiency of the Toyota model.
15:47 <@eryc> i could charge $50/user and it would provide the same value-proposition
15:49 <@eryc> that's $47 per person i could make per month for no additional value
15:50 <@eryc> i could hire thousands of people
15:51 <@eryc> ori could keep price low, $3 target per person. Thats a hefty profit margin.
16:23 <@eryc> actually i'm going to start the prices at $50/person
16:27 <@eryc> but i'll build a web calculator so you can pick and choose which channels you want and their maximum limits and then subscribe to that price point.
16:38 <@Dagmar> wow.  Someone's really deluded
16:39 <@Dagmar> Also, you should ask the TiVo people for a refund on your hardware
16:40 <@Dagmar> Since clearly they did not intend to actually sell it to you
16:42 <@eryc> I am very dilaudid but which point were you most interested in
16:44 <@eryc> the TiVo story isn't that ineresting
16:45 <@eryc> i don't even see where i talked about that it's very blurry
16:47 <@eryc> i tried to buy another one off ebay but the serial # didn't check out and the seller didn't reply after the 3rd email
16:48 <@eryc> i have an old hd somerun i bought from the guy who makes them around here somewhere
16:48 <@eryc> i should be able to find it tomorrow after i move all the big furniture into storage
17:42 <@eryc> the goal for anything left is to donate it
17:43 <@eryc> i've already sent several boxes back with people from the midwest
--- Log closed Mon Jun 18 00:00:47 2018