--- Log opened Tue May 22 00:00:05 2018
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04:22 < aestetix> if you wanna feel old
04:22 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgr4kY_-8pQ
06:41 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:05 <@Dolemite> No.   I don't want to feel old, yet I already do, constantly.
07:06  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:21 <@xray> Old? Can you remember the Mercury Missions?
07:30 <@Corydon76> xray: I think Dolemite remembers the Wright brothers.
07:34 <@xray> LoL
07:41 <@Dolemite> xray: I was born just before the end of the Apollo program, so Mercury was slightly before my time.
07:47 <@Mirage> Stuart A Roosa was from my hometown and I met him when I was in Elementary.
07:49 <@Mirage> Hrm..weird.. Wikipedia says Durango, CO for birthplace.   Maybe he grew up in my hometown but wasn't actually born there.  Street and School named for him and he used to come to town often back in the 80's
07:51 <@Mirage> yup.. He attended Justus Grade School and Claremore High School in Claremore, Oklahoma, from which he graduated in 1951
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09:28 < aestetix> anyone know if ubuntu 18.04 server is production ready?
09:28 < aestetix> trying to find reviews of it
09:28 <@xray> No idea, Sorry
09:28 <@xray> I use Debian
09:28 < aestetix> probably wise
09:28 < aestetix> I may still wait for 18.04.1
09:37 <@Dolemite> Definitely wait for 18.04.1
09:37 <@Dolemite> Ubuntu even says for LTS not to upgrade until the first point release
09:59 < aestetix> so here is a question
10:00 < aestetix> if both the cultural left and the cultural right go off in their own extremes to the point where they are effectively speaking different languages, is there a way for society to recover from that?
10:15 <@Corydon76> Yes, it's called ignoring them.
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10:18 <@Corydon76> In the Soviet era, Russians had two truths:  the official party line, and what they actually believed.  At a moment's notice, they could quickly rattle off the party line, while privately keeping their actual beliefs to themselves (which you might be able to pry out of them in private).
10:19 < aestetix> Corydon76: so they need to ignore each other?
10:19 < aestetix> That just leads to echo chambers.
10:20 <@Corydon76> Like in Soviet Russia, we should learn to ignore the extreme views.
10:20 < aestetix> My question is, how do you get the extremes to talk to one another again
10:20 <@Corydon76> They never have.
10:20 < aestetix> I'd argue that people did before they became extreme.
10:20 <@Corydon76> The point is to get people to ignore the loonies and have a conversation in the center.
10:20 < aestetix> Ok, and how do we do that?
10:21 <@Dagmar> By burning down the extremes
10:21 < aestetix> Heh.
10:22 < aestetix> Corydon76: it's actually interesting.... people who lived in the DDR.... they are basically unable to form friendships unless they are very deep.
10:22 < aestetix> Either they don't trust you at all, or they trust you with their deepest thoughts and ideas.
10:22 < aestetix> I'm guessing this is an artifact of secret police.
10:24 < aestetix> Seems it's like this in most eastern european countries, actually.
10:51 < dasunt> It's easier to have loonies now with the internet.
10:52 < dasunt> Before, to get an echo chamber, you'd have to physically find one.  Which reduced the severity of extremity.  At best, you could move into a large city and hopefully seek out your own crazy group.
10:53 < dasunt> Now, you can find your crazies via google.
10:58 <@xray> people with extreme views tend to yell more and therefore get more undue attention and media hype
10:59 <@xray> the majority say nothing
10:59 < aestetix> Which the media then picks up and runs with because it gets attention and sells ads
11:00 <@xray> people are more likely by a factor of 3x to report a negative review of a product than a positive one.
11:00 < aestetix> this is also true
11:02 <@xray> I haven't worked in marketing since before the Internet. Word of mouth is the biggest source of advertising. If a person loves your product they may tell 3 to 5 other people. If they have a problem with your product they will tell 9. That was the rule of thumb. I suspect the ratios have changed but it still probably holds true that people are more
11:02 <@xray> likely to share a bad experience because there emotional energy will overcome the inertia of the posting process.
11:15 < dasunt> Yep.
11:16 <@xray> Not to mention the pathologically disgruntled post vociferously.
11:26 < dasunt> See also:  TRP.
11:29 <@xray> And that stands for what? It maps to multiple acronyms.
11:29 < dasunt> The Red Pill.
11:29 <@xray> This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Pill
11:29 < dasunt> Misogynists who think that we've all been brainwashed by the matriarchy.
11:30 < dasunt> Yep, that.
11:34 < dasunt> Btw, the wired article on the Theranos culture is interesting.
11:35 < dasunt> https://www.wired.com/story/a-new-look-inside-theranos-dysfunctional-corporate-culture/
11:36 < aestetix> dasunt: to be fair, that label is rather hapharzardly applied
11:36 < aestetix> I'm not really sure what it means anymore
11:37 < aestetix> I'm pretty disenchanted with the left, but that doesn't mean I've suddenly turned republican. I hate the republicans too :)
11:37 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L5xTvj_HCc&feature=youtu.be
11:38 < dasunt> aestetix: Well, multiple fringe groups do use the term "red pill".  I was referring to the MRA crazies, mostly.
11:39 < aestetix> do you mean like the alex jones types?
11:40 < dasunt> I don't listen to a lot of Alex Jones, but I thought he was more of a rightwing nutjob/conspiracy theorist.
11:49 < aestetix> god this is awesome
11:49 < aestetix> european parliament is questioning zuckerberg
11:50 < aestetix> every questions has been good
11:53 <@eryc> ubuntu is production ready?
11:53 <@eryc> lulz
12:21 < dasunt> When I get depressed about US politics, I just look for Brexit stories instead.
12:23 < dasunt> One of the "solutions" to the customs problem is that technology will solve everything.
12:24 <@xray> The basic problem with US politics is that the average person sees the government and a benign institution with our best interest at heart and it can be trusted intrinsically.  The founders saw government as a necessary evil that can never be trusted. Must be limited as much as possible and monitored for bad behavior all the time. These two views a
12:24 <@xray> re not compatible.
12:24 <@xray> It causes a lot of friction.
12:27 <@eryc> i think the average person thinks the government either wants their guns or their immature fetuses
12:27 < dasunt> IDK.  To act like "the founders" had a unified vision is, IMO, a bad oversimplification.
12:28 <@xray> not united but it was the just of the final resu;lt
12:28 < dasunt> Look at the federalists - they seemed to think a stronger government was a good idea.
12:28 < aestetix> dasunt: you mean because the constitution almost didn't get ratified?
12:28 <@xray> the debates looked much like they do now
12:28 < dasunt> Funny enough, I was reading about what'
12:29 < aestetix> there were the federalists, as well as the anti federalists
12:29 < dasunt> Funny enough, I was reading about one of founders that was responsible for polishing up the finished documents, and there's speculation that he worded it in such a way to potentially grant government more power because he was sympathetic to the federalists.
12:29 < aestetix> federalists wrote the constitution, anti-federalists wrote the bill of rights
12:29 <@xray> There was a great Dragon Con EFF track video that reviewed the historical debate since the founding about gun control. It was very interesting.
12:29 <@xray> And not what you would expect.
12:29 < aestetix> xray: yeah I watched that talk
12:29 < aestetix> the one by decius right?
12:30 < aestetix> I need to watch it again actually
12:30 <@xray> yes that is the one
12:30 < aestetix> it was very information dense
12:30 <@xray> extremely, and most if not all historically based arguments are a vast over simplification of the ongoing debate.
12:31 < dasunt> aestetix: By saying "federalists wrote the constitution, anti-federalists wrote the bill of rights", which men are you specifically referring to?
12:31 <@xray> This too is founded in the dichotomy between trust or not trust government.
12:31 < aestetix> dasunt: that's a good question. did jefferson write the constitution, or just the declaration?
12:32 < dasunt> Jefferson was just the declaration, IIRC.
12:32 < dasunt> Was Jefferson even present at the meetings that lead to the constitution?
12:32 < aestetix> I can't remember specifically... hamilton, madison, and john jay were the federalists right?
12:32 < aestetix> from the papers
12:33 < dasunt> One could argue that the whole going into the convention to just revise those pesky articles of confederation and instead emerging with the constitution, all of them were probably a bit more federalist than was expected.
12:34 < dasunt> Okay, Jefferson wasn't at the convention.  Franklin was, so was Hamilton and Washington.
12:34 < aestetix> IIRC they specifically wouldn't let franklin write the constitution
12:34 < aestetix> because he was a troll
12:35 < dasunt> Madison was.
12:35 < dasunt> LOL, Road Island didn't send anyone to the convention.  Whoops.
12:35 <@Dolemite> Rhode
12:36 <@Dolemite> R-H-O-D-E
12:36 < dasunt> Crap, I knew that.
12:36 < dasunt> Brain fart.  I read "rhode island" when I was looking up who went to the convention, then somehow translated that to "road" when I typed it.
12:36 <@Dolemite> https://vimeo.com/49815266
12:37  * Dolemite channels the spirit of Foghorn Leghorn and his best friend, Rhode Island Red
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--- Log closed Wed May 23 00:00:07 2018