--- Log opened Wed May 02 00:00:27 2018
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06:20 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:24  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:25 <@Dolemite> dfused had to step up for you yesterday
06:25 <@Dolemite> slacker
06:27 < aestetix> did you give him a cookie?
06:28 <@Dolemite> What I gave him is between me and him.  ;)
06:29 < aestetix> oh my
06:29 < aestetix> Is it just me or is it warm. Can someone open a window?
07:41 < dfused> what he gave me might have been warm..... Hiiii Kyyyyle...mmMMMmmmm
08:17 <@Dolemite> Damn.   Have you read about the current weather in Pakistan?
08:19 <@Mirage> Dolemite: for some reason i don't have that as a location i normally check on weather.com or weather.gov.
08:20 <@Dolemite> Mirage: It's extreme enough to make global news.   122.3 F yesterday.   Set a new world record for high temperature.
08:23 <@opticron> wow
08:24 <@opticron> "Death Valley's Furnace Creek holds the record for the highest reliably recorded air temperature On Earth at 134 °F (56.7 °C) on July 10, 1913, as well as the highest recorded natural ground surface temperature on Earth at 201 °F (93.9 °C) on July 15, 1917."
08:24 <@opticron> just the record for that location?
08:26 <@Mirage> New high temp in the month of April
08:27 <@Mirage> Though that's based on assuming that a previous record in Mexico back in 2001 was ivalid as it was higher.
08:28 <@Mirage> holy shit..the security jackasses finally removed our nagios server from the spam senders list.
08:28 <@brimstone> was it a mistake?
08:30 <@Mirage> for the past couple months i've been the only one getting notified by nagios installed at this customer location because i was the only one who was supposed to be getting SMS messages AND emails
08:31 <@Mirage> everyone else decided "oh, i have email on my phone, so i don't need an SMS too"
08:33 <@brimstone> it's hard to admit, but pagerduty does that well
08:33 <@brimstone> immediate email and in-app page, sms after 5 minutes without ack
08:34 <@brimstone> all customizable times though
08:34 <@Mirage> I'm a fan of not relying on a single point of failure for notification of problems
08:34 <@brimstone> so you have two nagios servers?
08:34 <@Evilpig> brimstone: we use xmatters for that.  mine is set to hit the app first and sms, then email, then finally call me
08:35 <@Evilpig> with 5 minutes between each set so I don't get bombarded
08:36 <@Mirage> brimstone: we have two monitoring systems.   we don't trust the other one...or the team that installed, configured, and manages it
08:38 <@Mirage> The other monitoring solution is solely reliant on agents and is technically passive monitoring (though they don't see it that way).  It does a really shitty job of reporting hung servers, power issues, memory/cpu/load issues, etc
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09:56 < aestetix> so Dolemite maybe you can give insight
09:56 < aestetix> why are the Boy Scouts changing their name?
09:57 < oddball> Probably because there are now troops that accept girls into their ranks.
09:58 < aestetix> Yep. No issues at scout camp gonna happen there.
10:01 < dasunt> Didn't the Boy Scouts get bad PR for not allowing gay scout leaders?
10:02 < oddball> Well, apparently, the Girl Scouts have pissed a lot of folks off over the past few years and strayed significantly away from the original intent.
10:02 < dasunt> Wait, what did the girl scouts do?
10:02 < oddball> dasunt: That's beena few years, but yes.
10:03 < dasunt> According to Wikipedia, Girl Scouts had a "don't ask/don't tell" policy.
10:03 < oddball> Fromm what I understand, the girl scouts has steadily become more and more interested in being a SJW group than learning how to camp.
10:03 < dasunt> It's just not for the armed forces anymore!
10:03 < oddball> Oh, and pushing them cookies!
10:04 < dasunt> Wikipedia page lists for controversies for girl scouts.
10:04 < dasunt> Whoops.  6.
10:06 < dasunt> 1.  Sectarianism.  2.  No official stand on sexuality and gender issues.  2(a).  Girl scout troop accepting a transgendered girl.  3.  "To Serve God" in promise.  4.  No policy on prayer at meetings.  5.  Local support/objection of Planned Parenthood.  So technically 5, but more like six.
10:06 < dasunt> I'm not seeing the SJW.
10:07 < aestetix> So... why don't the people with those issues just form their own group?
10:07 < oddball> dasunt: That's what I've heard from parents.
10:08 <@rhia> dasunt, you're not seeing it because it isn't there
10:08 < oddball> or it simply isn't listed in wikipedia.
10:08 <@rhia> oddball, not there
10:09 <@rhia> girlscouts have always been about some issues, empowering girls, cleaning up the environment (BS used to do the same, some still do) -
10:10 < xray> Kind of hard to have values when they can be arbitrary.
10:11 <@rhia> point it, being for social issues does not automatically make a group SJW. Most complaints used to be that GS were too "humanistic"
10:12 < aestetix> To me, SJW is more... pushing an ideology, not listening to reasoned arguments, and working to silence voices that disagree with you
10:12 <@rhia> it's the exact same argument being driven by religious people who don't like that GS aren't all religious and aren't for keeping women in the traditional religious role of  barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen
10:14 < xray> The problem is the logical conclusion of the initial premise which I think this says nicely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eYwddllFUY
10:15 < PigBot> Hiring a Social Justice Warrior (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/h4kst23
10:15 < aestetix> And by my own stated standard, pretty much every mainstream american news anchor (cnn, msnbc, etc) is a SJW
10:15 <@rhia> um, that's not a logical conclusion
10:16 < aestetix> xray: that video was life in the bay area every day
10:16 < aestetix> so glad to be gone
10:19 <@rhia> and that argument in the youtube video is countered by recognizing that who you are is not what your job is. Who you are comes from within, it is not what you do for a living.
10:34 < dasunt> aestetix: The people with what issues?  Anti-Planned Parenthood?  Sure, I guess there's nothing stopping them.
10:34 < dasunt> Same with the people who are anti-transgendered or anti-gay.  They could always make their own groups.
10:37 < dasunt> Also, all groups are going to push an ideology.  e.g. it's an ideology to treat all girls as equal in the girl scouts, regardless of sexual orientation.  It's also an ideology to treat some girls different than other girls based on sexual orientation.
10:44 < aestetix> dasunt: note the other two criteria
10:44 < aestetix> That was not an either-or list.
10:45 < dasunt> What other two criteria?
10:45 < aestetix> 1. pushing an ideology 2. not listening to reasoned responses 3. working to silence those who disagree with you
10:46 < aestetix> The combination of all three is what is problematic
10:46 <@rhia> aestetix, you just described organized religion
10:46 < aestetix> rhia: and some organized religions to fall into that category.
10:46 < aestetix> do fall*
10:46 <@rhia> esp the crossover between fundies, evangelicals, and dominionists
10:47 < aestetix> yes, it can quite well apply to those :)
10:47 <@rhia> so what makes them different from SJW? oh, yeah, the SIDE of social justice they fight
10:47 < aestetix> take the WBC
10:48 < aestetix> I consider them indistinguishable from SJWs
10:48 <@rhia> so, what's wrong with being FOR equality and FOR human rights?
10:48 < aestetix> they just happen to be bigoted from the other side
10:48 < dasunt> aestetix: So Richard Spencer - it's worth listening to his arguments?  He can come off as pretty reasonable at times, correct?
10:49 < aestetix> dasunt: that depends on how you want to spend your time.
10:49 <@Corydon76_> Most of the public examples of SJWs are of the excesses, people who take it too far.  There are far more examples of social justice people who don't take it to an extreme
10:49 <@rhia> ahh, so you think of SJW as being bigots, interesting when the term originated as a negative slur against people fighting for equality for everyone
10:49 < aestetix> rhia: I am specifically thinking of the radical leftists and communists in the bay area who caused me personally lots of problems.
10:49 < aestetix> And yes, I absolutely do consider them bigots.
10:50 <@rhia> so, because your personal feelings were injured, you used a bigoted term to putdown and entire group of people who stand for humanity?
10:51 <@rhia> sounds more like a personal problem
10:51 < aestetix> No, I'm using a term, based on how I understand its meaning, to accurately describe a group of people who I believe it fits.
10:51 < aestetix> I'm not sure what you're referring to.
10:52 < aestetix> I'm thinking of a specific group. It may or may not be a subset of the one you have in mind, I have no idea.
10:52 <@rhia> what's wrong with being FOR equality and FOR human rights?
10:53 < aestetix> If the group I'm thinking of actually was for those things, I'd be fine with it.
10:53 < aestetix> But they are more about silencing people they don't like and being bullies. Getting people fired from their jobs for expressing views they don't like, etc
10:53 <@Corydon76_> aestetix: you're angry at a tiny group that basically just adopted an ideology without understanding it.
10:54 < aestetix> Corydon76_: a tiny group that has a lot of power.
10:54 <@rhia> or perhaps you need to find a different insult
10:54 <@Corydon76_> Fine; you can be angry at bullies.  They're everywhere, in every ideology
10:54 < aestetix> Or maybe you didn't read the Google lawsuit filings.
10:54 <@rhia> Corydon76, yep
10:54 <@Corydon76_> And it's rather the definition of a bully that they wield power.
10:54 < aestetix> yep
10:55 <@Corydon76_> Otherwise, they're just whiners
10:55 < aestetix> Doing things like creating blacklists of people they don't like, and then privately threatening companies if they do business with those people.
10:55 <@Corydon76_> Every ideology has those people
10:56 < aestetix> Or contacting conferences and threatening to picket unless they drop speakers they don't like from the lineup.
10:56 <@Corydon76_> Most of them seem to be interested in the power, itself, not the ideology.  The ideology is a means to their power, not an exercise of it.
10:57 < aestetix> If you can tell me how those kinds of actions are compatible with "human rights", I'm all ears.
10:57 < aestetix> Corydon76_: yep
10:57 <@Corydon76_> aestetix: so then you agree that singling out SJWs for this behavior is nonsensical.
10:58 < aestetix> Absolutely not.
10:58 < aestetix> Commenting on the fact that SJWs are doing this crap does not mean I don't think other groups do too.
10:58 <@Corydon76_> And here we have the struggle for power.  You want to throw out the ideology because of the actions of a few who claim it
10:59 < aestetix> I never said that.
10:59 <@Corydon76_> Whining about SJWs exclusively leads to that unmistakable conclusion
11:00 < aestetix> If you have a broken toe, it's going to grab your attention more than all the other issues you have.
11:00 < aestetix> Am I denying other issues exist? Not at all.
11:00 <@Corydon76_> If I have a broken toe, I splint it without complaining about it, and move on to other issues
11:01 <@Corydon76_> If there's people shooting at me, I might even forget that my toe is broken for awhile
11:01 < aestetix> on that cheery note, afk!
11:01  * aestetix hugs Corydon76_ 
11:25 <@Dolemite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IejQNDSw9cs
11:25 < PigBot> TUSHY presents I'm An Asshole (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/yagwm94q
11:27 <@Corydon76_> Yay, mandatory web security training.
11:36 <@Corydon76_> Someone shoot me.
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11:45 < dasunt> Are certs useful at all anymore?
11:48 <@Corydon76_> Depends upon the use.  They can be very useful to get past HR or a recruiter who has been asked to prequalify candidates based upon a certification
11:49 <@Corydon76_> And large organizations may use that as a simple disqualifier to ensure that they get employees who are at least minimally qualified for various positions
11:50 < xray> They are required for any government related contract work. At least in infosec.
11:50 <@Dolemite> yes, especially in compliance areas
11:51 < xray> Infosec outsourcing companies (NOC monitoring) like staff to have them as they are selling point to customers. They may not be required to get hired but they may require you to get the ones they want in a specific period of time to keep the job.
11:52 <@Dolemite> And to those that ask the age old question, "Does having a cert necessarily guarantee that you know something that an uncertified person knows?", I respond with, "Yes, they know that having certs opens more doors."
11:52 < dasunt> Maybe I should get some certs.
11:52 < xray> There are other credentials that are not certification based such as college degrees in infosec and past military service.
11:53 <@Dolemite> er, that a non-certified person DOESN'T know
11:53 < dasunt> I don't have a college degree, and I've been pondering getting a new job.
11:53 <@Dolemite> trying to type while eating
11:53 < xray> What are you interested in doing that a cert would help with?
11:53 < xray> If you don't have a degree certs a big leg up that can get you past the HR drones.
11:54 < xray> Infosec?
11:55 < dasunt> Thinking sysadmin, junior level.
11:55 < xray> Also helps if you already have proven experience.
11:56 < dasunt> IDK.  Maybe moving to NOC.
11:56 < xray> what do you do now?
11:56 < xray> Linux or Windows sysadmin?
11:56 < xray> or OS/X
11:56 < dasunt> Watching my dreams slowly die while I fix various technical issues.  Title is technical support specialist.
11:57 < dasunt> That means I do everything from plugging people's monitors back in to working with OUs in AD.
11:57 <@Corydon76_> dasunt: find an organization that you'd like to work for and find out what certs they look for, if any
11:57 < dasunt> I just want to work downtown, tbh.  Easy commute.
11:58 <@Corydon76_> Just keep in mind that your BEST entry into a company is through social networking
11:58 <@Corydon76_> Go to the Meetups for various topics that you're interested in pursuing.
11:58 < dasunt> I realized something this weekend while fixing a friend's car.
11:58 <@Corydon76_> The people you meet there will be able to get you past any cert requirements, in most cases
11:59 < xray> Certs that I have seen that help get you a sysadmin interview. CompTia A+, Network+, Security+,  Red Hat Certified System Administrator (RHCSA)
11:59 <@Corydon76_> And in the cases where they can't, they'll also be able to tell you the SPECIFIC certs their organizations require
11:59 < dasunt> It was a PITA job - brake cylinder broke.  It was a design where the drum also incorporates the bearing races.  Then since the wheel cylinder was leaking, it needed new shoes, and since it was an old car, the brake line wouldn't come cleanly off, so it needed a new brakeline, etc.
11:59 <@Corydon76_> Targeting specific certs limits the funds you have to spend to acquire them
12:00 <@Corydon76_> There's tons of certs out there, and you could easily spend $100k to get all of them.
12:00 < dasunt> But I realized that while this brake issue and my job both have tasks that end up being bigger than they seem, and require learning new stuff, the brake job was almost enjoyable because I DID NOT GET INTERRUPTED ABOUT 50 FUCKING TIMES WHEN I WAS DOING IT.
12:00 <@Corydon76_> Way out of most people's budget, especially if you only need 1 or 2 for the job you want.
12:02 < xray> Get just the certs to get the job and ask up front if the company will pay for the more costly ones.
12:02 < dasunt> So in short, I want to go into a field where there is life/work and work/work balance.
12:04 <@Corydon76_> dasunt: like programming?
12:04 < dasunt> I know it sounds a little lazy, but it's not - I want to go to work, and on most days, be able to work a normal day, get stuff done, and go home.
12:04 < xray> I have found that IT isn't one of the easiest fields to find a balance because of the rate of change and the aggressive self training  needed to stay current. It really needs to be a passion.
12:04 < dasunt> Corydon76_: Maybe.  But I've never done programming professionally and I could probably about hack my way through a "hello_world.c" script.
12:04 <@Corydon76_> Programming misses most of the certs, because it's about finding creative ways to fix problems, not apply specific bandaids on known problems
12:04 < xray> Infosec is even more unbalanced.
12:05 < dasunt> xray: I like to learn on my own.  But my current job isn't giving me the time to learn or to dig deep into issues.
12:05 < xray> I get some time at work to dig into issues but I have to do a lot of it on my own time.
12:05 <@Corydon76_> dasunt: If you hate that aspect of your job, I would NOT recommend jobs where certs help.
12:05 < xray> agreed
12:06 < xray> IT and infosec pay well because it is hard to find good people who will commit the time to be good.
12:06 < xray> and stay that way
12:06 <@Corydon76_> Certs are good for showing that you know which bandaid to apply, not that you have an ability to solve unknown problems.
12:06 <@Corydon76_> Unknown problems require digging.
12:06 < dasunt> Hmmmm....
12:06 < dasunt> Will certs get my foot in the door though?
12:07 <@Corydon76_> Depends upon the job
12:07 <@Corydon76_> In a programming interview, they mainly ask how you go about solving problems
12:07 <@Corydon76_> Sometimes in pseudo-code fashion
12:07 < xray> Most of the things that will get you pay raise or promotion with your employer are not the thing that go on a resume.
12:08 <@Corydon76_> In my present position, my boss won't pay for certs, because they're utterly useless to him for me
12:08 <@Corydon76_> What they're good for is finding another job.  He wants to keep me around.
12:08 < xray> That is part of the problem, demonstrating to the new employer that you can do those undocumented and often unspoken things that make you a great employee.
12:09 <@Corydon76_> But I also work in a small organization, where I can walk up to the CEO or CFO and have conversations with them about the business
12:09 < xray> The resume and maybe certs get you the interview, then you have to sell those attributes that are not on a resume.
12:10 < xray> I have gotten all my best jobs by networking with others in the field I'm interested in.
12:10 <@Corydon76_> ++ on the networking aspect.  It is truly the one thing they never teach that is absolutely necessary to get you the job
12:11 <@Corydon76_> EVERY job I've gotten in my professional career has been through social contacts
12:11 < xray> So they already know I'm the person they want, the resume and qualifications are a minor HR issue.
12:11 < xray> Corydon76_: I totally agree.
12:12 < xray> It also means that I know a lot more about the company before I start working there.
12:12 < xray> I see interviews as a way for me to judge if I want to work for the company.
12:12 < dasunt> I need to come back to this - afkish for awhile.
12:12 < xray> I have turned down offers due to how the company came across in the interview.
12:13 <@Corydon76_> dasunt: Meeup.com is your best friend for this.
12:13 < xray> No problem
12:13 < xray> Not something to be solved in a single conversation
12:13 <@Corydon76_> Go to Meetups, even if you don't know a field.  It's a great way to start those interactions.
12:13 < xray> agreed
12:13 <@Corydon76_> If you're interested in the topic, go.  Make contacts.  Learn what you can.
13:09 < TheDukh> so...just ran across someone who is describing themselves as "the most interesting man in information security"
13:13 < xray> Would it be someone on this list http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/
13:13 < PigBot> attrition.org Errata - Charlatans (at attrition.org) http://tinyurl.com/27r25rk
13:17 < TheDukh> doesn't look like it.
13:17 < TheDukh> just did a search and I wasn't on there, so, that's a plus
13:28 < TheDukh> Has anyone ever eaten at Otaku Ramen in Nashville?
13:37 <@Evilpig> I did when they were still a popup shop
13:38 <@Evilpig> now they're square in the middle of hipster town and they are priced high with no parking
13:42 < TheDukh> was it good or over-rated?
13:42 <@Evilpig> it was tasty, but I see it like the pharmacy at this point
13:42 <@Evilpig> decent but fucking hipsters think it's the second coming
13:43 < TheDukh> so, not worth a drive to nashville for decent ramen
13:43 <@Evilpig> no
13:43 < TheDukh> shit.  that's unfortunate
13:44 <@Dolemite> I'm still pissed about my inability to get my hot chicken the last time I was in town
13:44 <@Dolemite> And also at the very diminished quality of the food at Monell's
13:44 <@Dolemite> Probably the last time I go there
13:44 <@Evilpig> I do better at cafe monells over off thompson
13:44 <@Evilpig> whomever they've switched to for the country ham is just awful
13:45 <@Dolemite> Yes, it was slimy
13:45 <@Evilpig> it wasn't salty and has some weird ass glaze.  I've told them the last two times I was there for breakfast it was bad
13:45 <@Evilpig> the rest was good, but that ham is awful
13:59 <@Dolemite> The chicken was disappointing, too
14:09 < TheDukh> http://wkuherald.com/life/professional-wrestling-course-to-return-to-wku/article_a22fc7b0-49aa-11e8-b54a-37d1de89bbf9.html
14:09 < PigBot> Professional wrestling course to return to WKU | Life | wkuherald.com (at wkuherald.com) http://tinyurl.com/ya565p79
14:10 < TheDukh> If they don't have a midterm covering D-X and the NWO I will be highly dissapointed.
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14:21 < Synx_hm> whelp i got ported from GV over to Fi, however at the moment i cannot send texts but i can receive, i can make calls also not sure if i can receive them though
14:27 <@Evilpig> weird.  but that should get straightened out quickly i'd assume
14:30 < Synx_hm> ya hope so
14:30 < Synx_hm> if not holy shit is it easy to get ahold of support
14:30 < Synx_hm> and the phone support aren't a bunch of robots like the rest of the carriers
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20:42 < dfused> I'll bet Trump's Nobel Peace prize speech will be humble and respectable
20:45 < Synx_hm> wtf
20:46 < Synx_hm> so i just activated the 2nd phone i got from fi, the setup said as soon as i turn it on it will grab a number from the 615 pool
20:46 < Synx_hm> literally as soon as it did that i got a txt message reminding me to vote
20:51 < dfused> lol
21:31 < TheDukh> damn, that was quick turn around
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--- Log closed Thu May 03 00:00:29 2018