--- Log opened Fri Mar 16 00:00:17 2018 03:05 < aestetix> Corydon76: you were asking why I hate Hillary 03:05 < aestetix> http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/378655-white-house-rips-clinton-for-remarks-on-trump-voters 03:05 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07 < aestetix> She represents the rich, out of touch, liberal elite that hates themselves, but hates the poor more. 03:08 < aestetix> Which explains why so much money from the government programs "for the poor" actually winds up in the pockets of administrators 03:09 < aestetix> (again, I also hate Trump, but for different reasons) 03:09 < aestetix> And I fully support Dolemite in 2020 05:50 <@brimstone> Dolemite 2020 06:20 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez! 06:20 <@Dolemite> NO DOLEMITE 2020 06:20 * aestetix votes for Dolemite 06:42 < aestetix> Dolemite: when you are president, what will you do to address the gopher fart epidemic? I've seen news reports that in places that have lots of gophers, there is a higher volume of methane gas 06:49 <@Dolemite> I plan on bottling up all the gas and shipping it to Germany. What's your address? 07:10 -!- K4k [elw@unaffiliated/k4k] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19 <@Evilpig> bah. apparently that new plugin needs new error handling 07:22 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600 07:40 <@Dolemite> werd up! -> http://gkidstickets.com/movies 07:40 < PigBot> GKIDS Films (at gkidstickets.com) http://tinyurl.com/yczeer9p 07:43 <@Dolemite> Most of which I've just added to my calendar to remind me :) 07:58 <@Corydon76> aestetix: You hate Hillary because she answered someone's question honestly and thoughtfully? 07:59 <@Corydon76> I live in a community of those Middle America-ers. They willfully blind themselves to any negative consequences to Trump's tariff action, for example. 08:00 <@Corydon76> One recently addressed my concerns, and said, "Everything will be fine." 08:00 <@Corydon76> The vast majority of economists say that a trade war will NOT be good for Middle America. 09:00 -!- Synx_hm [~Synx_hm@unaffiliated/synx-hm/x-1623004] has joined #se2600 10:14 -!- K4k [elw@unaffiliated/k4k] has joined #se2600 10:58 -!- oddball_ [~oddball@h96-61-175-66.lvrgtn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #se2600 11:03 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @oddball, @Dagmar 11:05 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600 11:21 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11 -!- PigBot [~PigBot@wilpig.org] has joined #se2600 12:52 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 12:52 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:52 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar] has joined #se2600 12:52 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dagmar] by ChanServ 14:10 <@rattle> http://www.zdnet.com/article/adrian-lamo-hacker-dies/ 14:10 < PigBot> Hacker Adrian Lamo dies at 37 | ZDNet (at www.zdnet.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybuzkpkr 14:26 <@Mirage> And now a message from the redundancy dept: "Makes A Great Gift for Any Dr Who Fan and Whovian!" 14:33 <@Mirage> Anyone watching Homeland and actually like this season? 14:42 <@Dagmar> I don't want to sound mean, but it wouldn't surprise me to know he died of some stupid accident that he could have been rescued from 14:43 <@Dagmar> That article doesn't really express what he did with Manning. "Selling him out" would not be an inaccurate depiction 14:43 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: could also have been something like a heart attack, though 14:43 <@Dagmar> Could be 14:44 <@Dagmar> I read the full transcripts of his conversations with Manning 14:44 <@Dagmar> I have a very low opinion of Lamo now, especially considering the way he portrayed those conversations initially in the edited versions 14:45 <@Dagmar> He _should_ have been calling Manning's base commander and telling him "Look, this guy is one bad day away from deciding a bullet would make a good midday snack. Get him some help." 14:45 <@Dagmar> Instead, he pretty much starts pumping Manning for information 14:45 <@Dagmar> _Lame_ 14:45 <@Corydon76> Are the numbers for a base commander in the middle of a warzone easy to get, though? 14:46 <@Corydon76> Yeah, but that's what Manning wanted, wasn't it? For someone to listen to their information? 14:47 <@Corydon76> They only contacted Lamo after several reporters turned them down. 14:47 <@Dagmar> yeah but the rest of the conversation pretty much screamed that the guy was suicidal 14:47 <@Dagmar> ...and not in the trendy emo-kid way, either 14:48 <@Dagmar> ...and that wasn't stemming from him wanting to get the information out there. 14:49 <@Corydon76> Was it the information that made them want to exit, or the desire to exit that drove the information leak? 14:50 <@Corydon76> If you know the motivation for the suicidal feelings, then if you address the motivation, you address the suicidal feelings 14:50 <@Corydon76> Maybe? I don't know. 15:18 <@rattle> Complex situation for Lamo actually. He was a registered FBI confidential informant. If made aware of a situation like he was, and he didn't milk him for info and turn him in, he'd be sitting in a jail cell too if Manning was ever discovered and his communications investigated. 15:23 <@rhia> *her* 15:28 <@Corydon76> rhia: Yeah, that's why I used 'they' and 'them' to refer to Manning. When they're still presenting as male, getting the pronouns correct at first blush is rather difficult. 15:29 <@rhia> however, that was then, this is now and she should be referred to as "her" even when _now_ discussing the past 15:30 <@rhia> can't go back and change previously written articles, but any discussion of her actions (then or now) are being conducted in the present 15:31 <@Corydon76> Fair enough. Do we know that her preferred pronouns are exclusively female? 15:31 <@brimstone> twitter bio says she/her: https://twitter.com/xychelsea 15:31 < PigBot> Chelsea E. Manning (@xychelsea) | Twitter (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/pm5vp5t 15:32 <@Corydon76> Grindr recently added pronouns to their profiles, and some still prefer they/them 15:36 <@Evilpig> the only thing I ever want to hear after someone saying "my preferred pronoun is" is a gunshot 15:54 <@rhia> that's taking "being a gunnut" to a whole nother level 16:01 <@rattle> There's a lot of disagreement about that among trans folks, actually. I know, because I have several trans friends, and they don't agree. 16:02 <@rattle> I think editing of past content is wrong. I think using the gender appropriate to context is ideal. 16:02 <@rhia> have trans friends and family, yes, they don't all agree, but Manning prefers she/her now and the discussions are now 16:03 <@rattle> Hence, it being ok to refer to something "he" did that "she" has been pardoned for.. Et cetra. 16:05 <@rhia> or we could simply stop misgendering her in the present while speaking of her past 16:09 <@rattle> I think it's actually more nuanced. If you look at history of editorial style, the concensus method for handling name changes is to use the current name but always cite the formal name on first mention. That's existed for decades, most used when someone changes their name after marriage. 16:09 <@rattle> If you apply that to gender, some people get ANGRY. 16:09 <@rattle> So basically, valid points all around and lots of disagreement. 16:11 <@rhia> true, but casual discussion is not quite the same level as formal published articles 16:12 <@rhia> and it's easy to fall into a habit of misgendering while speaking of the past that carries into continued misgendering in the present 16:15 <@rattle> There are different views on this. There are contexts in which if I wrote something that referred to someone in a gender other than what they declared at the time, it would be pointed out as an error. Hence the "he" did something that "she" was later blah blah example above. There are many people that consider that style correct. 16:17 <@rhia> got that. there are also many who consider it misgendering outside of a very narrow precepts 16:17 <@rattle> It's a legit issue. I'm not arguing my way of handling it is correct. Just justifying why I do it and try to do it consistently. 16:20 <@rattle> I've got one friend that points out if you refer to a past event and don't use the prior gender. Another than will literally get instantly angry if you ever refer to their past gender. Both are fucking annoying. 16:24 <@rhia> i tend to err on the side of respecting how they ask to be referred now 16:29 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has joined #se2600 16:29 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44 -!- Synx_hm [~Synx_hm@unaffiliated/synx-hm/x-1623004] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58 -!- HackMaster_ [uid45710@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywfddclijhfvwvny] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:07 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: K`Tetch_ 17:07 -!- Netsplit over, joins: K`Tetch_ 22:13 -!- ezelkow1 [~sasquatch@2601:282:702:1eb8:ace7:926e:373b:da9e] has quit [Quit: Leaving] --- Log closed Sat Mar 17 00:00:19 2018