--- Log opened Tue Feb 27 00:00:01 2018
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03:36 < aestetix> question for you guys
03:36 < aestetix> since you know more about it than me
03:36 < aestetix> what are examples of gun laws in the US that are not enforced properly?
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06:26 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:26  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:27 <@Dolemite> Well.   I think a lot of the "just enforce the laws we already have!" is mostly hyperbole.
06:27 <@Dolemite> It's already a requirement to have a background check before you can purchase a gun.
06:28 <@Dolemite> Now, on the back end, I think the background check is fairly ineffective, and if the agency is backlogged, there's a maximum time you have to wait for an answer before you get a default of "ok, let them get a gun" answer.
06:29 < aestetix> Well are the checks against both federal and local law enforcement?
06:29 <@Dolemite> It's kind of like allowing a full staff of aids at the White House operate without a full security clearance.
06:30 < aestetix> Like if you run a background check and there are 39 complaints against the person, you're probably not going to sell them the gun
06:30  * aestetix sighs
06:30 <@Dolemite> aestetix: You don't see the applicant's record.   The dealer only gets a yes or no.
06:30 < aestetix> oh ok
06:30 < aestetix> well it seems that 39 complaints should logically register into a "no"
06:31 <@Dolemite> Depends on the complaints
06:31 < aestetix> this is also true
06:31 <@Dolemite> 39 parking tickets?
06:31 < aestetix> well here's a question.... is law enforcement like the local police or the FBI able to tag their record and say "this person should not be able to buy a gun"?
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06:32 <@Dolemite> I don't think so, but I don't know definitively.
06:32 < aestetix> and I mean yes, that could be abused too
06:33 < aestetix> also, fully agreed about the white house drama
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06:33 < aestetix> It sounds like comparing the gun background checks to something like a credit background check is reasonable
06:33 < aestetix> And there are all kinds of problems with the credit background check
06:34 <@Dolemite> As I understand, they check for any if (a) felony; (b) domestic violence; (c) drug arrests; (d) previously committed to mental institution.
06:34 <@Dolemite> s/if/of
06:34 <@Dolemite> But not an expert at that
06:35 < aestetix> I don't know a whole lot about the system, but if seems that if either local or federal law enforcmeent were able to just say "not for this guy" and it were denied
06:35 <@Dolemite> As for the security clearances, I do know a bit more about that
06:35 < aestetix> that might help a lot
06:35 < aestetix> especially if you were told which agency denied you, and were given a phone number to appeal
06:35 <@Dolemite> You don't get denied for having ever smoked pot; you get denied for lying about having ever smoked pot.
06:35 < aestetix> since 39 parking tickets is not really fair, but 39 domestic abuses is
06:35 <@Dolemite> So just let that sink in
06:35 < aestetix> that's not fully true
06:36 < aestetix> on the lower level of clearances it is
06:36 <@Dolemite> aestetix: 1 domestic abuse should be enough
06:36 < aestetix> on the higher level, you're supposed to lie in the initial screening, and then when they do the SF-86 you tell the truth
06:36 <@Dolemite> aestetix: Also, the check only stops you from buying more guns.   If you already have some and you commit one of the naughty list crimes, they don't get taken away
06:37 <@Dolemite> aestetix: I disagree
06:37 < aestetix> good point
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06:37 < aestetix> and agreed on the 1 domestic abuse, was just using the same number for sake of analogy
06:37 <@Dolemite> aestetix: Now, on the other end of the spectrum, we have way too many people that are fairly clueless about guns being the vocal ones about things to change
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06:38 <@Dolemite> It seems that now the tactic is to discuss muzzle velocity, as if a slower slug would be something that a highly trained target shooter could knock right out of the air, like in a movie
06:38 < aestetix> I mean
06:38 < aestetix> you either shoot someone or you don't
06:39 <@Dolemite> exactly
06:40 <@Dolemite> They're also ignoring the mass of a .223 vs a 9mm
06:40 < aestetix> Also, if you have the slowest gun with the smallest bullet, but it hits your heart in a vital place, it doesn't matter
06:42 <@Dolemite> Well the point is that they carry roughly the same amount of energy
06:43 < aestetix> So my conclusion is there that's excessive hyperbole on both sides, and that while the background check process probably needs to be adjusted, nothing is going to happen as long as the media and politicians are involved.
06:43 < aestetix> Except that the sponsors of the NRA who loudly pull out, will re-sponsor them a month later when the fog has died down
06:44 <@Dolemite> Well, I have felt for years that the NRA has jumped the shark
06:44 <@Dolemite> Several gun rights advocates that I know feel the same way, and have zero love for the NRA
06:45 < aestetix> well according to Dan Rather's broadcast last week
06:45 < aestetix> the NRA exists as a sponge to absorb all the hate every time one of these tragedies happens
06:46 <@Dolemite> Originally the NRA was founded as a group for education of the public through sports and marksmanship
06:46 < aestetix> oh also, maybe you know this
06:46 < aestetix> One talking point I hear is that basically all guns are "semiautomatic"
06:47 < aestetix> because to me, that word sounds like something specific
06:47 <@Dolemite> Semi-automatic simply means that it will chamber your next bullet after firing one, so that all you have to do is squeeze the trigger, again, to fire the next round
06:48 < aestetix> ah ok
06:48 <@Dolemite> Automatic means you can squeeze the trigger once to fire multiple rounds
06:48 < aestetix> That specific word is getting hurled around a lot
06:48 < aestetix> "ban all semiautomatic weapons"
06:48 <@Dolemite> Pretty much the only modern gun that is not at least semi-automatic would be a side loading rifle, which is typically what we teach scouts with
06:49 <@Dolemite> You have to actuate a bolt to eject the spent cartridge and chamber a new one
06:50 <@Dolemite> They do have clips you can slide into them, but it still requires actuating the bolt by hand
06:50 <@Dolemite> Oh, then there's the good old fashioned lever action rifle
06:51 <@Dolemite> Like you'd see in old West movies
06:51 < aestetix> it's interesting though
06:51 <@Dolemite> Where you have to actuate the lever, which is the trigger guard
06:51 < aestetix> The media is highlighting the kids from Parkland who were on the CNN thing and screaming for gun laws
06:51 <@Dolemite> IIRC, Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK with a bolt action rifle
06:51 < aestetix> But there are also kinds who are supporting the NRA, and the media is ignoring them
06:51 < aestetix> kids, from the same school
06:52 <@Dolemite> yes, you'll see people on both sides
06:52 <@Dolemite> Young and old
06:52 < aestetix> Not if you only watch mainstream media
06:52 < aestetix> That's my point
06:52 <@Dolemite> I'm not watching mainstream media
06:52 < aestetix> which is probably why you're able to discuss this without it turning into a screaming match :)
06:53 <@Dolemite> I see points on both sides
06:53 < aestetix> oh so do I
06:53 < aestetix> but not from the MSM
06:54 <@Dolemite> I think that teachers, who want to be, should be allowed to take specific training - not just a CCW permit class, but an active shooter class - and then be voluntary protectors
06:54 < aestetix> makes sense
06:54 <@Dolemite> However, if not enough at a school volunteer, there should be some cheddar ponied up to pay for trained and armed security
06:55 <@Dolemite> Because teachers are made up of people who live in the community, and in many communities, the people who are teachers have zero desire to be around a gun
06:56 <@Dolemite> But the old adage, "When seconds count, the cops are minutes away," also applies in the Parkland, FL, shooting.   Whether there were legitimate reasons for the 4 deputies to not engage, I don't know.   Howeever, they didn't go in.
06:56 < aestetix> I saw that too
06:57 < aestetix> unlike the guy in texas who singlehandedly took out the church shooter
06:57 <@Dolemite> Yeah
06:57 <@Dolemite> The problem is that too many people think they'd be the hero
06:57 <@Dolemite> Like Cadet Bone Spurs
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07:36 <@Dagmar> Jesus
07:37 <@Dagmar> Some jackass is actually offering a whole $100 dollars for an _experienced_ developer to write them a whole new cryptocurrency, including wallet and exchange services
07:37 <@Dagmar> I think I'll submit a proposal that says "For $100 you get 'Step 3. ????'"
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10:13 < aestetix> someone wanna kick cordless until he fixes his internet?
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10:14 <@Corydon76> When there's conversation in here, it's less noticeable
10:14 < aestetix> cordless_: fix your internet
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10:25 <@Dolemite> With all of his joins/drops, the conversation is what becomes less noticeable
10:34 < TheDukh_> well, just registered for the CISSP in april
10:38 <@Evilpig> LOL  http://geekologie.com/2018/02/karma-kid-pees-on-elevator-buttons-short.php
10:38 < PigBot> Karma: Kid Pees On Elevator Buttons, Short-Circuits Control Panel, Gets Stuck In Elevator - Geekologie (at geekologie.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7c8daq
11:17 <@Mirage> customers are assholes.  I've explained to them several times since we started supporting them back in 2014 that the reason all the RHEL hosts using winbind auth don't show the same GID/UID on any 2 systems or in AD is because they don't have the Unix Extensions installed/enabled/configured in their AD.  I should also note that THEY are the ones that decided on using winbind and wrote the original scripts and puppet module which configures it on each host.
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13:13 <@Dagmar> Oh god
13:13 <@Dagmar> https://witches.town/@SoniEx2/99598864262295979
13:13 < PigBot> Soni L. : "@grainloom@cybre.space it&#39;s a huge security hole …"
13:13 <@Dagmar> This dude actually just argued that it could dangerous because of TOR
13:13 <@Dagmar> Literally arguing that a TOR user might be able to talk to the goddamn localhost interface on the box
13:13 <@Dagmar> Like holy fuck dude, you have VERY Failed if that ever happens, for any reason, at any time
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14:08 <@Evilpig> if I disappear after friday.  the fcc is in colusion with the fbi and there is proof in my dropbox
14:19 <@Corydon76> You haven't run an eFOIA on yourself yet?
14:20 <@Evilpig> nope
14:20 <@Corydon76> I ran one on myself with all alternate names and aliases.  They had nothing.
14:20 <@Evilpig> I know what they have on me.  this is coming after chfuck
14:21 <@Evilpig> I have a conference call on friday with three @fcc types and one @fbi type
14:22 <@Corydon76> I dunno; I was rather surprised that they had nothing.  But then, they clarify in the letter that they only mean that they don't have a primary file on me.  They could still have me in a file of some other person.
14:22 <@Corydon76> I'm just not indexed.
14:28 <@opticron> but now they know all those aliases are linked!
14:43 <@Dagmar> Corydon76: There's a real good chance they have finally decided that most of us are very boring
14:44 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: I think there's a very good possibility of that.
14:45 < dc0de[m]> It couldn't have been a huge hole, it was a kid!
14:46 <@Dagmar> dc0de[m]: I actually almost typed part of my response to that guy in all caps
14:55 < dc0de[m]> What happened to the server Evilpig?
15:04 <@Evilpig> dc0de[m]: which server?  mine?  it's still running, I think?  I've been watching house all afternoon
15:05 <@Dagmar> Apparently it's been broadcasting obscene language on hidden radio bands all week
15:09 <@Corydon76> California just got smacked down hard on a Prop 65 warning.
15:18 <@Corydon76> They're enjoined from enforcing a Prop 65 warning on glyphosate.
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16:30 <@NotLarry> "The player with the largest cumulative restraining order range starts the game..."
16:55 <@_NSAKEY> NotLarry: Sounds like a good way to have a tie-breaker for org votes.
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 28 00:00:02 2018