--- Log opened Mon Nov 20 00:00:59 2017
00:26 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-69-137-84-154.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:51 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uqqqfmcqdjkqeoop] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
07:07 -!- K`Tetch [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has joined #se2600
07:07 -!- K`Tetch [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Changing host]
07:07 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
07:10 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:21 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:24 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has joined #se2600
07:32 -!- sicsscam_ [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has joined #se2600
07:35 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
07:36 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:47 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has joined #se2600
07:50 -!- sicsscam_ [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
07:51 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:02 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has joined #se2600
08:09 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:17 -!- scam [~sicsscam@24.154.71.208] has joined #se2600
08:27 <@rattle> A number of folks here know Greg and David.  I expect this to be a good one..  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0692911561/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl
08:27 < PigBot`> rattle: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
08:30 < xray> Yes I know Greg. His office was across from mine while he was getting his doctorate. Great guy and knows what he's talking about when it comes to cyber warfare.
08:37 <@rattle> Totally.  I've had many great conversations with him over the years on the subject.  The talks he and David did with Decius are great too..  I'm looking forward to this book arriving.
08:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has joined #se2600
08:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has quit [Changing host]
08:42 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has joined #se2600
08:43 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbhsezudxfjxdemg] has joined #se2600
08:47 <@shapr> GOOD MORNING!
10:00 < xray> Morning
10:00 < xray> you missed the dc404 meeting yesterday
10:00 < xray> :(
10:01 <@shapr> aw
10:01 <@shapr> I forgot, was busy writing code
10:02 <@shapr> On the good side, I figured out how I'm going to do author identification in my Python class today.
10:02 < xray> then it's not a total loss :)
10:02 < xray> how are you planning to do it
10:07 <@shapr> We decided to compare kipling and shakespeare for our first attempt
10:07 <@shapr> Last night I realized we could easily just compare vocabulary
10:08 <@shapr> so, set difference on the word list
10:08 <@shapr> This morning a coworker suggested we use the markov chain we've already built
10:08 <@shapr> and I realized we could do set difference of (word, following_word) and that'll be even better
10:08 <@shapr> and easily extended to trigrams instead of just bigrams
10:19 <@dasunt> You should compare Shakespeare to itself and the other contenders for the "real" Shakespeare authorship.
10:19 <@shapr> A bunch of stylometrists(?) did that!
10:20 <@shapr> They decided that the centuries old rumor that Marlow wrote some of Shakespeare's work had some statistical basis, but it sounded more like Marlow worked with Shakespeare on some of his works.
10:20 <@dasunt> AFAIK, Shakespeare writing Shakespeare is the historical consensus.
10:20 <@dasunt> But there's a few other contenders, and some people who think it was a group effort.
10:30 <@dasunt> #1 is pretty offensive:  http://www.citypages.com/news/4-native-american-statues-minnesota-could-do-without/458798553
10:30 < PigBot`> Title: 4 Native American statues Minnesota could do without | City Pages (at www.citypages.com) http://tinyurl.com/ydcrhpmj
10:31 <@dasunt> Also, #4 seems to be bad history.
10:34 < aestetix> https://globalnews.ca/video/3867811/extended-excerpts-from-secretly-recorded-meeting-between-wilfrid-laurier-university-grad-student-and-faculty
10:34 < PigBot`> Title: Extended: Excerpts from secretly recorded meeting between Wilfrid Laurier University grad student and faculty | Watch News Videos Online (at globalnews.ca) http://tinyurl.com/yaefewa8
10:34 < aestetix> enjoy
10:38 < aestetix> This explains why I had so many run-ins with this nonsense in the bay area
10:39 < aestetix> I can't believe this kind of crap is happening in universities
10:56 <@dasunt> LOL.  Think you may be getting a biased example?
10:58 < aestetix> I very much hope so.
10:59 < aestetix> However, based on the runins with this crap I've also had in the tech world, I'm not sure.
11:00 <@dasunt> Based on the amount of times you bring this up, you seem to have more frequent exposure than my friend that hangs out with the far leftists.
11:01 < aestetix> well the problem is that a bunch of people I used to be good friends with have all turned into far leftists
11:02 < aestetix> I'm slowly trying to purge that list :)
11:02 <@dasunt> I kind of like the far left.  I still try to buy my planner at the marxist bookshop, just to keep them in business.
11:10 <@dasunt> I kind of wish we had a more active far left, TBH.  Not because I want to live in the society that happens after the rich are the first against the wall in the revolution, but because I would like to live in a society where the rich understand that being lined up and shot is always a possibility if things get too bad.
11:12 <@dasunt> Oh, did you see James Damore is back in the news?
11:36 <@rattle> I'm not a fan of the far-*.*.
11:36 < aestetix> dasunt: I would prefer to live in a society where it is possible to have a balanced and reason debate on issues.
11:37 < aestetix> I'm not in favor of legislating to ban guns, but I am in favor of helping to create a society that is trusting and relaxed enough that nobody thinks about using guns on each other.
11:39 < aestetix> dasunt: why is he back in the news?
11:40 <@dasunt> He's blaming autism for how he approached the subject and the response.
11:41 < aestetix> dasunt: I spent a lot of time looking into that situation. You might not like my response to that. Would you like me to share it anyways?
11:41 <@dasunt> I forget what he said, but I know I'm supposed to be either outraged that he's so misogynistic or outraged that he just asked some non-bigoted questions and got SJW-brigaded.
11:42 <@dasunt> I figure that if I stay ignorant, at least I'll agree with one side.
11:42 < aestetix> If not, I'll drop the topic :)
11:42 <@dasunt> If I look into details, I'm going to piss off both sies.
11:42 <@dasunt> Er, both sides.
11:43 < aestetix> oh holy shit
11:43  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
11:43 < aestetix> I totally forgot about that
11:46 <@_NSAKEY> shapr: You could always tackle A General History of the Pyrates.
11:48 <@_NSAKEY> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_General_History_of_the_Pyrates#Authorship
11:48 < PigBot`> Title: A General History of the Pyrates - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/y8lpyo2m
12:01 <@Catonic> I'd like to live in a society where the working man has representation in government, not just "left" and "right." Today, if you start what happened in the 1930s, you're labelled a socialist or communist, which is pretty much exactly the sort of policies that unions helped make a better living with
12:02 < aestetix> Catonic: +1
12:02 < aestetix> Although
12:02 < aestetix> The best way to be represented is to get more involved
12:02 < aestetix> Showing up to city council meetings, etc
12:02 <@Catonic> unfortunately, with unions you get the devils of quashing individual achievement, seniority rules, and retirement shenanigans because union leadership is elected.
12:03 <@Catonic> LOL. I live in Alabama. City and state are bought and paid for.
12:04 < aestetix> so you can be the alabama Milo
12:04 < aestetix> you just start showing up and saying your piece
12:04 < aestetix> and keep showing up
12:05 < aestetix> The only reason the bought and paid for thing works is because nobody shows up.
12:05 <@Catonic> Someone will go out, find some old-ass building that used to be something, now empty for decades, lead a bunch of people through, spill all sorts of "possibilities" in thier ears, then sell or rent the building to a large company after the company expresses interest in the building and the state and city race to the bottom of tax rebates, so that the property actually becomes a drain on the tax base, rather than a net positive.
12:05 <@Catonic> this is Alabama. They don't care. ALDOT will bury you.
12:06 < aestetix> Ok let me put it this way.
12:06 <@Catonic> We're talking about a state where a man was killed and the state road department paid $110,000 a year rather than settle with his widow because he was a black man and she had a valid case of negligence.
12:06 < aestetix> Do you *know* how corrupt Oakland PD is?
12:07 <@Catonic> nope
12:07 < aestetix> I mean not only do they regularly plant drugs to wrongfully convict people, they ran an underground child prostitution ring
12:07 < aestetix> And shot an unarmed black person in the BART station.
12:08 <@Catonic> sounds like BPD if you piss them off.
12:08 <@Catonic> otoh, you have to live in a nice part of town to get the cops to show up.
12:08 < aestetix> It took us seven months of nonstop protests at city hall, plus another 1.5 years of labor on our privacy policy, to get in some constraits regulating their unabashed use of surveillance tech
12:08 < aestetix> But we did it.
12:08 < aestetix> So I believe you can too ;)
12:08 <@Catonic> if you're in a shitty part of town, the cop is more likely to be running through backyards with his M16
12:09 <@Catonic> chasing people who stole stuff
12:09 <@Catonic> word.
12:09 < aestetix> It just takes effort
12:10 < aestetix> And of course not doing things like having sex with minors who are undercover reporters for your political opposition
12:10 <@Catonic> You heard of Roy Moore?
12:10 < aestetix> yeah I don't even
12:11 < aestetix> Is it *really* that difficult to keep your pants on
12:11 <@Catonic> Kay Ivey, state governor has been quoted as saying that she does not have any reason to disbelieve those speaking out against Moore, but we need a republican in that office because she believes in the republican party.
12:12 < aestetix> So yeah
12:12 < aestetix> When you're becoming a thorn in city hall's side
12:12 < aestetix> Don't do that
12:14 <@dasunt> There may be an auto loan bubble:  http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/ct-biz-auto-loan-payments-20171117-story.html?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Contentutm_content=5a12b5bc04d3011c9caec9d7utm_medium=trueAnthemutm_source=facebook
12:14 < PigBot`> Title: 6.3 million Americans are 90 days late on their auto loan payments - Sun Sentinel (at www.sun-sentinel.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycm57pyv
12:16 <@dasunt> "For example, a man in Alabama was able to use his shotgun to cover most of the down payment when he took out a car loan."
12:16  * dasunt really wonders about Alabama sometimes.
12:25 <@_NSAKEY> dasunt: I'm curious to see what happens when that bubble pops.
12:26 <@_NSAKEY> When the housing market started to implode, a bunch of auto lenders tightened up and wouldn't even repossess a lot of stuff. It would have been too disasterous for their books.
12:29 <@Catonic> "That joist isn't sistered, it's cousined."
12:30 <@Catonic> there are bubbles all over the place... is it a commodity? can it be sold easily? can you convince someone else to pay more for it than you did?
12:31 <@Catonic> Long term, I think the problem is that people are mortgaging post-secondary education... if you graduate, you're paying up to $120+ k for the next 30 years... while you pay your house note
12:32 <@Catonic> there is wisdom in some of the fiscal habits of the millenial, and there are other points that aren't very smart
12:33 <@Catonic> but it is a wake-up call to small town America, where the kids go off to school or the big city and don't come back.
12:34 <@Catonic> the boomers are seeing medical costs increase as those services are monetized right as they are starting to use them, truly separating the haves from have nots.
12:43 <@Catonic> there's all sorts of subprime loans available to people willing to fill out a little paperwork
12:44 <@Catonic> it's predatory and profitable, because people closer to the poverty line tend to go from one disaster to another.
12:46 <@dasunt> _NSAKEY: I'm a little curious about the size of the student loan debt they casually mentioned.
12:47 <@_NSAKEY> dasunt: Same. I didn't join in on that particular rat race, and am glad of it.
12:47 <@_NSAKEY> There was a piece linked on HN yesterday that I forgot to link in here, about that very subject.
12:47 <@_NSAKEY> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/business/student-loans-licenses.html
12:47 < PigBot`> Title: When Unpaid Student Loan Bills Mean You Can No Longer Work - The New York Times (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybg5lc6x
12:48 <@dasunt> I saw that.  Very screwed up.
12:50 <@shapr> wow, that's self sabotage
12:50 <@dasunt> You think that they'd just allow garnishing wages instead.
13:20 <@Dickie> I am fortunate never to have never dealt with student loans or online dating.
13:20 <@Dickie> They both seem terrible.
13:22 <@shapr> they are
13:22 <@shapr> I've done both
13:22 <@shapr> My online dating stories are really funny now that they're some years in the past.
13:41 <@Corydon76> I don't understand why all the difficulties with dating apps.  Grindr works just fine.
13:42 <@Corydon76> (Actually, they also have unexplained outages.)
13:42 <@Corydon76> http://downdetector.com/status/grindr
13:42 < PigBot`> 'Title: Grindr down? Current problems and outags | Down Detector (at downdetector.com) <!DOCTYPE html>\n<!--[if lt IE 7]> <html class="no-js ie6 oldie" lang="en-US"> <![endif]-->\n<!--[if IE 7]>    <html class="no-js ie7 oldie" lang="en-US"> <![endif]-->\n<!--[if IE 8]>    <html class="no-js ie8 oldie" lang="en-US"> <![endif]-->\n<!--[if gt IE 8]><!--> <html class="no-js" lang="en-US"> <!--<![endif]-->\n<head>\n\n\n<meta http-eq
13:43 < aestetix> lol
14:05  * Dickie checks PigBot`s temperature
14:11 <@rattle> Well then.. https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/publicsector/announcing-the-new-aws-secret-region/
14:11 < PigBot`> Title: Announcing the New AWS Secret Region | AWS Government, Education, & Nonprofits Blog (at aws.amazon.com) http://tinyurl.com/yc27ofud
14:58 <@Evilpig> ll
14:58 <@Evilpig> lol
15:25 < dc0de[m]> Just wow. That title...
15:32 <@dasunt> Grindr's status broke PigBot.
16:05 <@Corydon76> That's not Grindr's status.  That's DownDetector's status.
16:06 <@Corydon76> Shall we try a more popular site?  http://downdetector.com/status/google
16:06 < PigBot`> Title: Google down? Realtime overview of Google status, issues and outages | Down Detector (at downdetector.com) http://tinyurl.com/ov5o4pr
16:07 <@Corydon76> I guess Pig patched it.
16:17 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
16:18 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
16:18 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@c-69-180-254-140.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
16:18 -!- Dagmar [dagmar@unaffiliated/dagmar] has joined #se2600
16:18 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Dagmar] by ChanServ
16:25  * dasunt is sleepy.
17:16 <@Catonic> wow.
18:56 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-69-137-84-154.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600
20:09 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cbhsezudxfjxdemg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
22:52 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-69-137-84-154.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:10 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
--- Log closed Tue Nov 21 00:00:01 2017