--- Log opened Thu Oct 05 00:00:12 2017
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03:34 < aestetix> Yes, nagios is a complete piece of shit
03:34 < aestetix> Prometheus is way better :)
04:49 < aestetix> jesus I hate systemd
04:53 < aestetix> it seems to basically ignore everything that is not systemd
04:54 < aestetix> how the hell has this infested so many distros
04:58 <@_NSAKEY> aestetix: Politics and a desire to get away from init scripts.
04:58 < aestetix> I have a number of systems I'm "upgrading" from ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04
04:58 < aestetix> the amount of overhead I've had to do to make things work is insane
06:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:27  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:35  * Dolemite is watching a required training video featuring our current Attorney General...   and can't stop imagining Kate McKinnon acting it out
06:47 <@Dolemite> 53 minutes of video summed up as "If you leak secret information, we will prosecute you, unless your name is Trump."
06:48 < aestetix> or Clinton
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07:24 < k3ymkr> I'm pretty sure he'd prosecute Clinton
07:24 < k3ymkr> The FBI under Obama wouldn't
07:28 < aestetix> Well there's still plenty of time
07:29 < k3ymkr> I assume you're referring to her use of a private email server?   They're not going to go that route due to the multiple uses of private email servers by the current administration
07:30 < aestetix> oh I know
07:30 < aestetix> I'm actually pretty sure there is no longer any accountability on the federal level
07:30 < aestetix> unless you happen to piss off trump
07:30 <@Dolemite> I gotta say, the fact that Tillerson doesn't deny calling Trump a "fucking moron" does make me respect him a little.
07:41 < k3ymkr> I'm not sure when last there  was.  What's different is Trump doesn't even keep up the pretense.
07:42 < k3ymkr> He does interviews and says that the FBI should stop investigating his friends and that the Attorney General should do what he says.   He either doesn't get it or care.  I'm unclear which it is.
07:42 < k3ymkr> it = the idea of accountability and separation of executive and investigative components.
08:05 <@Dagmar> There's a mechanism of accountability.
08:05 <@Dagmar> It's why we have guns.
08:09 < aestetix> also
08:09 < aestetix> I lost a *lot* of respect for Hillary when she called for abolishing the electoral system
08:10 < aestetix> She's as much a sore loser as Trump is a sore winnr.
08:11 <@Corydon76> aestetix: how's your application for German citizenship coming along?
08:13 < aestetix> not that I had much for her to begin with
08:27 <@Dagmar> She's the very definition of a successful criminal
09:07 <@Catonic> Dagmar: I've used Nagios, and I've had Everlade, as well as Tucker Death Mix, and Zombie Punch.
09:08 <@Catonic> I don't recommend any of them for extended periods of time. All will steal parts of your memory.
09:10 <@Dagmar> Well, I guess we know Michael Moore is an idiot now
09:11 < aestetix> ..... because he wasn't before?
09:11 < aestetix> Dagmar: what did he do now
09:12 <@Dagmar> You'll see
09:12 <@Dagmar> He's formally jumped on the "lets ban most guns" bandwagon
09:13 <@Dagmar> I've got friends on Facebook who have decided this as well
09:13 <@Dagmar> My response will remain, "First we must ban lobbyists"
09:13 < aestetix> well also as ben shapiro pointed out
09:13 < aestetix> the reason the NRA has power in congress is not because of lobbyists
09:13 < aestetix> it's because they have millions of members
09:13 <@Dagmar> We're going to need those guns in a few years to deal with the excess politicians
09:13 < aestetix> all of whom call their representatives
09:15 <@Dagmar> This has nothing to do with banning lobbyists to weaken the NRA
09:15 <@shapr> aestetix: participation makes a difference
09:16 <@Dagmar> This has everything to do with getting rid of the corrupt politicians who were the reason the founding fathers felt it necessary to codify gun ownership
09:16 <@Dagmar> Getting rid of lobbyists is only the first step
09:16 <@Dagmar> Next will be getting rid of campaign contributions from corporations
09:17 <@Dagmar> ...and limiting the amount any single person can donate.
09:17 <@mog> i find it so odd how political this channel gets compared to the others i am in
09:17 <@Dagmar> We're probably more affected by shifts in the political landscape than those channels are
09:18 <@Dagmar> ...being that we're some of the few people who regularly become villified for _merely knowing things_
09:18 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: unfortunately, that runs smack dab into SCOTUS precedent.  It's precedent that the more liberal members of the court would like to overturn, and the only way we get a more liberal court would have been to elect Presidents like Hillary Clinton
09:18 < aestetix> mog: for me it's because 1. people here *tend* to have reasonable opinions 2. I don't use social media
09:19 <@Dagmar> Precedents do not mean a damn thing
09:19 <@mog> i wasnt saying it was bad
09:19 <@mog> i enjoy the banter
09:19 < aestetix> although I don't think I'd share an honest opinion on facebook if I used it
09:19 <@mog> im just surprised its so much
09:19 <@shapr> aestetix: reasonable usually means "matches what I believe" though
09:19 <@Corydon76> Precedents mean that any attempt to limit campaign contributions will be overturned by the courts
09:19 <@Dagmar> If we're banning shit to get rid of corruption, there's plenty of reason to not be hampered just because something hasn't been done before now
09:19 <@shapr> I'm more likely to say reasonable means "not polarized"
09:19 <@Dagmar> It's ban them or shoot them
09:19 < aestetix> shapr: right, that's what I mean
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09:19 <@Dagmar> One of the two is _going_ to happen.
09:19 <@shapr> aestetix: hah
09:19 < aestetix> not polarized, based in fact rather than emotion
09:19 <@shapr> oh, good
09:20 <@shapr> I'm in favor of citizens owning firearms, and I'm in favor of free healthcare, and free mental health care.
09:20 <@Dagmar> Per example, it very much looks like we're going to see that everything the adminstration has claimed about the new taxation changes are entirely a lie
09:20 <@Dagmar> ...and they'll probably pass them anyway
09:21 <@Dagmar> How much more "taxation without representation" do things have to get?
09:21 <@mog> shapr, you only are a fan of guns so you can kill more people and flee to sweden again
09:21 <@shapr> psh, not even
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09:21 <@mog> shapr, estonia this time?
09:21 <@shapr> nah, that language is almost as hard as finnish :-P
09:22 < aestetix> shapr: "free healthcare" is complicated
09:22 <@mog> shapr, you are coming to phreaknic yes?
09:22 <@mog> no more complicated than free roads and police
09:22 < aestetix> both of which are also not free
09:22 <@shapr> mog: even better, I started a conference badge project for phreaknic, using adafru.it/3333
09:23 <@mog> i bought in shapr i just didnt know you were coming or not
09:23 < aestetix> although I will point out
09:23 <@shapr> yup, definitely
09:23 < aestetix> in germany I pay about the same for health insurance as I did in the US
09:23 <@shapr> my girlfriend already submitted a talk to phreaknic, I think I will too
09:23 <@shapr> probably a short talk about building a badge with that circuit playground express
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09:27 <@shapr> mog: and I'm organizing the lightning talks, as usual
09:28 <@shapr> and I already paid for the hotel room
09:28 <@shapr> so YES, I will be there if I'm not in the hospital or something
09:28 <@Catonic> Ok, first... if we ban lobbyists, nothing would happen in Alabama until we unbanned them.
09:28 <@Catonic> we'd literally have a legislative strike
09:29 <@mog> nothing happens in alabama Catonic
09:29 <@Catonic> Second, the NRA has done more to undermine the 2nd than any other organization to date.
09:29 <@Corydon76> We have a right to petition our government for redress of grievances.  That's lobbying by another name
09:30 <@Catonic> They suggested the NFA of 1934, the GCA of 1968, and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986.
09:30 <@mog> ya as bad as lobbying is i dont see how you can ban it in a free society
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09:30 <@mog> just need better tracking and publicity to it
09:31 <@Catonic> Larry Langford went to prison, the lobbyist who bribed him is out with a slap on the wrist.
09:31 < aestetix> Lobbyists aren't the big problem
09:31 < aestetix> The big problem is nobody contacting their representatives
09:31 <@Dagmar> Sure you can ban it
09:31 < aestetix> and whining on twitter instead
09:31 <@Dagmar> You can ban it easily
09:32 <@Dagmar> Contacting representatives doesn't do shit when they know they have the power and there's nothing individuals can do about it
09:33 <@Catonic> Jefferson County, AL is on the hook for something like $1.2b at the taxpayers expense because of what Larry Langford did as the county comission president.
09:33 <@Dagmar> ALl they have to do is keep pouring money into advertising and PR so the easily swayed vote for them
09:33 <@Catonic> NRA does have the NRA-ILA, which is the lobbying/contact your legislator side of the organization.
09:34 <@Catonic> The NRA doesn't listen to anyone unless they've for $10K to spend, then they'll consider rotating the platform a little.
09:34 <@Catonic> jesus, am I losing my mind?
09:34 <@Catonic> *they have over $10K
09:35 <@Catonic> or does everyone here still speak sed?
09:35 <@mog> the nra is that cheap
09:35 <@mog> wow
09:35 <@Dagmar> At the moment, the primary benefit lobbyists create is they give corporations the ability to sway politicians into writing laws that grant corporations more control over people.
09:35 < K`Tetch_> most people don't realise what little money is in lobbying
09:35 < K`Tetch_> at least on the individual level
09:35 <@shapr> unless you're AT&T
09:35 <@mog> Dagmar, you dont surpress speech in a free society, you fight it with better speech
09:36 <@Catonic> The NRA panders to the segment of society who is proud of paying money to get a piece of paper from the government to prove they are "more better" or "gooder" than other people.
09:36 < K`Tetch_> you expect the figures to be half a million a year to congressmen, but it's more like 5k, or 10k, or 15k max
09:36 <@shapr> Catonic: jeffco has been a disaster since the 90s at least
09:36 <@Catonic> and that's how we got Bamacarry, after the other org self-destructed.
09:36 <@Dagmar> K`Tetch_: Are you actually trying to say that congressmen only get 10k from lobbyists?
09:37 <@Corydon76> I think what he said is that $10k is where Congress critters start paying attention to what you have to say
09:37 < K`Tetch_> I'm saying that individual transactions by lobbyists are much smaller for the given influence than the average american expects it to be
09:37 <@Catonic> jeffco is a massive, rolling clusterfuck the likes of which few entities or tragedies compare to.
09:38 <@Dagmar> There's a crapton of lobbyists, all handing out checks
09:38 <@Dagmar> If they were allowed to hand out bigger checks there'd likely be fewer lobbyists
09:38 < K`Tetch_> that congrescritters are not just whores, they're much cheaper whores than their veneer makes them out to be
09:38 <@Catonic> The water department is so inept at thier job that they don't pack the dirt around any place where they have fixed a broken pipe, they just put it into the hole, and when they get to the top, they put 6" of asphalt on it.
09:38 <@Catonic> Then they wait for cars and trucks to mash it flat with the rest of the road surface
09:39 <@Catonic> The only winning move here is to buy a Jeep and put an off-road suspension on it immediately.
09:39 <@Catonic> Dagmar: to be fair, politics is not the business of saying "yes". It's the business of saying "no" until someone pays you enough to say "yes".
09:40 <@Dagmar> That's why we need the buisness of saying "open fire"
09:40 <@Dagmar> Their job is to fairly represent the will of their constituents
09:40 <@Dagmar> It is not to merely collect money for votes
09:41 <@Corydon76> K`Tetch_: the problem is that they're cheap whores.  It's that they know there are cheap whores waiting in the wings, willing to take that lobbyist money to run against those Congress critters in a primary election
09:41 <@Catonic> doubleplus ungood thoughtcrime, comrade Dagmar.
09:41 <@Corydon76> When they've been gerrymandered into a safe district, they have to worry about runs from the extreme wing
09:41 <@Catonic> N.E.R.D. was so far ahead of the game... And R.A.T.M. was about to be a revolution...
09:42 <@Corydon76> I hope SCOTUS strikes down gerrymandering
09:42 <@Catonic> shapr: what metro are you in?
09:43 <@shapr> atlanta
09:43 <@shapr> but I lived in birmingham for a bunch of years
09:43 <@shapr> inverness, southside, but mostly mountain brook
09:43 <@shapr> I'm a brookie, it's true.
09:44 <@Catonic> In other words, all the safe parts of town. =P
09:44 <@shapr> I've never lived in Ensely or northside or the scary parts
09:44 <@shapr> but I've definitely had to walk over discarded needles in some of the parts of southside where I lived
09:45 <@Catonic> I know someone who grew up in Ensley. He goes back once a year.
09:45 <@Catonic> I found evidence of a nearby methlab about six weeks before they closed it down
09:45 <@Catonic> smurfers
09:45 <@shapr> that doesn't surprise me
09:46 <@shapr> One of my apartments had bars on the windows and consistent drug deals in the parking lot
09:46 <@shapr> but my time in Florence at University of North Alabama was scarier.
09:46 <@Catonic> LOL. Yeah, white people are the worst.
09:47 <@shapr> I mean, I'm white as a sheet
09:47 <@shapr> but I spent seven years living in Europe, and I've lived all over the USA
09:47 <@Catonic> And a little time at TUNA scared you?
09:47 <@shapr> I get tired of the viewpoints of people who've never left their tiny area
09:48 <@mog> ding shapr
09:48 <@Corydon76> "white as a sheet" seems like a poor choice of words for the South.
09:48 <@shapr> Corydon76: ha, fair enough
09:48 <@shapr> Catonic: the neighborhood where I lived in Florence had too many drug deals
09:48 <@Catonic> I was gonna say, but I couldn't figure out how to make a joke without ...
09:48 <@shapr> druggies breaking into the dealers' apartments
09:48 <@mog> whenever anyone complains about how things are unsafe i am just amazed
09:48 <@shapr> me having to call 911 a bit too often
09:48 <@Catonic> Vice has to be somewhere, everywhere.
09:49 <@shapr> Florence seems to be a major transshipment point for drugs
09:49 <@Catonic> I've hit a point where I just start to tune people out if they go on too long at the Red State stuff.
09:50 <@Catonic> Quite a few of them simply get caught up in whatever is on the news and don't consider things critically or do any research.
09:51 <@Catonic> It rather annoys me to see that the Gun Rights Movement is generally restricted to people over the age of 50, and 99.9% male.
09:51 <@shapr> hm, I'm only four years off
09:51 < aestetix> that's the public movement
09:51 <@shapr> well five
09:51 <@mog> shapr, do you feel it
09:51 <@mog> the urge
09:52 <@shapr> if you mean the urge to do cartwheels, then yes
09:52 <@mog> cartwheels today, chain guns tomorrow
09:52 <@shapr> hm, seems unlikely
09:52 <@shapr> but I don't know the future
09:52 <@Catonic> Oh, I forgot the other part: it's white as a filing cabinet.
09:52 <@mog> i do shapr
09:52 <@mog> heat death of the universe fucks us all
09:52 <@shapr> oh good, tell me!
09:52 <@shapr> oh right
09:53 <@mog> now you can tell people
09:53 <@mog> you know the future
09:53 <@shapr> huh, ok
09:53 <@mog> did you already forget?
09:53 <@Catonic> The one black gun rights activist was considered by many as "too radical" and no one "wanted to affiliate with a criminal" (he was arrested for disorderly conduct, but not convicted of the same).
09:54 <@Catonic> shapr: there was a comedian who had a bit about drugs... the difference between weed and heroin is that weed doesn't wind up with someone standing in your apartment looking for a fix.
09:55 <@shapr> yah
09:55 <@mog> they never knew my friend marty then
10:12 < aestetix> you know
10:12 < aestetix> it would be tempting to put up a website that looked exactly like CNN, with duplicate stories
10:12 < aestetix> with some breaking news announcing that Donald Trump was selected for the Nobel Peace Prize
10:13 < aestetix> that would troll so many people
10:13 < aestetix> especially if facebook/twitter automatically rendered the story
10:13 < aestetix> since how many people actually look at the URL anymore?
10:15 <@Dolemite> And here it is
10:15 <@Dolemite> http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/10/05/kellyanne-conway-vegas-gun-control-trump-newday.cnn
10:15 < PigBot> Title: Conway defends Trump on gun control - CNN Video (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb6l4d2m
10:15 <@Dolemite> It's all Obama's fault
10:20 <@Catonic> I told a friend about that talk years ago, where someone registered paypal.com with a unicode character for an "a".
10:20 <@Catonic> Apparently if you're above ----> this much smart, it just blows minds
10:20 <@Catonic> literally got a "wat?!"
10:21 <@Catonic> Phreaknic: make -j1.21x10^6 wats
10:21 <@Catonic> Dagmar: did you figure out a solution that works for your traceroute dilemma?
10:22 <@Catonic> It seems like all you want to do is found out if you can reach <dns server>, or two hops up (i.e.: to the other side of the CMTS).
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10:59 <@Dagmar> What's this "seems"?
10:59 <@Dagmar> I stated explicitly what I was aiming to do... see the latency and/or connectivity of the cablemodem to the network.
10:59 <@Dagmar> The two-hop traceroute will do that every time
11:00 <@Dagmar> It's using ICMP at the moment, and if I cared to leverage a sudo wrapper I could use TCP/443, but I don't think they're implementing any kind of QoS or flow control at that point in the network, nor am I interested in measuring that
11:00 <@Dagmar> I'm perfectly willing to assume that they do flow control and QoS all the time.
11:02 <@Catonic> hey... you could traceroute -n, then chop the top of the traceroute and feed that into pings with packet size
11:02 <@Catonic> by keeping the traceroute around, you can update the upstream IPs once a minute
11:03 <@Catonic> Just making sure I understand... even though you're one of the most concise and clear communicators I know
11:04 <@Dagmar> I don't have to update or track the upstream IP
11:04 <@Dagmar> I don't even need to know it
11:04 <@Dagmar> 8.8.8.8 was picked as a destination because it's absolutely not going to be within two hops of me, and it will also absolutely be "upstream"
11:05 <@Dagmar> I pastebinned the baraely modified ping.pl, man
11:05 <@Dagmar> What I'm using is effectively this: traceroute -n -q 1 -m 2 -f 2 8.8.8.8 2>&1 | grep -v \"^traceroute\" 2>/dev/null |
11:05 <@Dagmar> No DNS resolution (for obvious reasons), one query per hop sent, starting at two hops, ending at two hops.
11:06 <@Dagmar> The tiny if block of perl that comes after it grabs the relevant ms argument and outputs it.  If it doesn't find a number there, it assumes (correctly) that the trace failed and the link must be down
--- Log closed Thu Oct 05 12:18:52 2017
--- Log opened Thu Oct 05 12:40:16 2017
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13:59 <@Catonic> word.
14:51 <@Corydon76> What word?
14:51 < dc0de[m]> the bird
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16:41 < aestetix> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/world/europe/catalan-independence-referendum.html
16:41 < PigBot> Title: Catalonia Separatism Revives a Long-Dormant Spanish Nationalism - The New York Times (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/ydz3bbh6
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17:32 <@Dagmar> Bleh.  Somehow the persistent-net.rules file got overwritten and my damn interfaces were swapped around
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20:55 <@Evilpig> doh!?
20:57 <@Dagmar> Yeah i don't know WTF made that happen, but it definitely broke my crap
20:57 <@Dagmar> heh
20:58 <@Dagmar> It took me a moment to figure out why the hell it was getting a DHCP lease from itself
20:58 <@Dagmar> That threw me for a loop partly because normally that _can't_ happen
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 06 00:00:13 2017