--- Log opened Mon Sep 25 00:00:59 2017 01:38 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:04 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 02:51 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:36 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez! 06:37 * aestetix hugs Dolemite 08:25 < aestetix> ugh 08:25 < aestetix> xen, why are you such a piece of shit 08:25 < aestetix> trying to migrate a vm, it no worky 08:25 < aestetix> and the error no sense-makey 08:48 < aestetix> xray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKyxWeJA3I0 08:48 < PigBot> Title: Firing Line with William F. Buckley Jr.: Subversion and the Law - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7gssxp7 08:49 < aestetix> in which the guest is none other than Mark Felt 08:52 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:510e:a97f:c0ef:7cb7] has joined #se2600 09:11 -!- crashcartpro [uid29931@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnicgrnhwwdeogry] has joined #se2600 10:25 <@Dagmar> University of New South Wales is clearly hiring quality people 10:25 <@Dagmar> https://pasteboard.co/GLWPIT6.png 10:25 <@Dagmar> The guy who posted that was just asking really basic questions about swap, because he's confused as to why it's being used at all 10:27 <@Dagmar> Simbaclaws: You're going to get weird output when you tell fdisk to explain a filesystem as a partition table 10:29 < aestetix> I want that system 10:29 < aestetix> 500 gigs of ram? 10:30 < aestetix> 56 core cpu 10:30 < aestetix> jesus 10:30 <@Dagmar> Yeah, and asking for newbie-level help on IRC 10:30 <@Dagmar> "It's a shame there's nowhere that professionals can be found who do this for a living" 10:31 <@Dagmar> ...that was my comment, by the way 10:31 < TheDukh> Oil prince decides to build first PC? 10:31 <@Dagmar> No, I suspect the University of NSW has decided to get into clustering, and simply thought random-ass grad students would be up to it 10:31 <@Dagmar> POssibly kids who majored in geology 10:32 < aestetix> but uh yeah.... 10:32 < aestetix> using 4 gigs of swap.... 10:32 <@dasunt> WTF? 10:32 < aestetix> seems that it should be pretty easy to get rid of that 10:33 <@Dagmar> Yeah. The easiest way would be to hire someone with a clue. 10:40 <@Catonic> or like Thor: "How did you get to be involved in a science program?" "I majored in political science." "What?" other: "She was the only applicant." 11:13 <@dasunt> I'm reading about retired RVers who do seasonal work at Amazon because they need the money. 11:14 <@Dolemite> I read that last week. Interesting story. 11:14 <@Dolemite> Good that they have that opportunity. Sad that they need that opportunity. 11:15 <@dasunt> I wonder what George Orwell would have thought. 11:17 <@dasunt> It's kind of horrifying, to think of Amazon bragging how good an 80 year old guy works. 11:23 < TheDukh> what type of work do they do? 11:23 <@Dolemite> warehouse work 11:23 < TheDukh> damn. that's no good even when you are 20 11:23 <@Dolemite> no shit 11:24 < TheDukh> also this 11:24 < TheDukh> https://www.engadget.com/2017/09/25/deloitte-reports-extensive-cybersecurity-breach/ 11:24 < PigBot> Title: Major accounting firm Deloitte reports extensive cybersecurity breachEngadget (at www.engadget.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybw95rcf 11:42 <@dasunt> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/11880/build-a-working-game-of-tetris-in-conways-game-of-life 11:42 < PigBot> Title: code challenge - Build a working game of Tetris in Conways Game of Life - Programming Puzzles & Code Golf Stack Exchange (at codegolf.stackexchange.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybqjhess 11:53 <@Dagmar> Gosh if only they'd adopted SecurID when we told them to 11:55 < TheDukh> friend of mine who works there is bitching about it 12:02 <@Dagmar> Now they get to wrestle with forcing all 50,000+ users to change their passwords and not just stick a '1' on the end of them 12:02 <@Dagmar> (because they will SO freakin' do that) 12:15 <@Catonic> Amazon probably has more than a few "vanlife" folks at HQ 12:16 <@Catonic> like... why even own a house when you can live in a van, go to Burning Man, and eat avacado toast every day? 12:17 <@Catonic> also, is "Mein Kampf" banned in Germany? 12:17 <@Catonic> lol 12:17 <@Catonic> now you're wondering why I'm asking that. 12:18 <@Catonic> So this uh... "friend" of mine has kinda come out as a Nazi.... 12:20 <@Catonic> and I know better than to ask him, because any English translation being passed around by a bunch of Americans is suspicious for reasons of an opportunity to alter the message. 12:24 <@Catonic> I say friend, but really... I'm about a microsecond from deleting the person from my life. 12:24 <@Catonic> that sort of negativity, one does not need in life. 12:26 <@Dolemite> Catonic: How the hell did you know about the Jones Act? 12:26 <@Catonic> I think I ran across it late one night on Wikipedia 12:27 <@Catonic> That or I recently heard it as something to be repealed and did a quick google and realized why it exists and why it's bad to repeal it. 12:28 <@Dolemite> Protectionism at its finest 12:28 <@Catonic> There have been numerous cases over the past where the prohibition has been brought to light 12:28 < aestetix> .... 12:28 < aestetix> come out as a nazi 12:28 < aestetix> is that really a thing? 12:28 <@Catonic> i.e.: towing a battleship or destroyer to be scrapped requires a US vessel, because port-to-port must be flagged US. 12:29 <@Dolemite> Not only flagged, though... staffed! 12:29 <@Dolemite> well, built and staffed 12:30 <@Dolemite> So, of course, we've let our manufacturing capabilities shrivel up... meaning that there are less and less compliant ships on the water 12:30 <@Catonic> aestetix: apparently. These times we're living in are wierd. It's not fun being in the middle of family turmoil because one of your relatives comes out as a non-P.C.-er and the other one has a member that fits under some sort of P.C. category that the previous might use as an insult. 12:30 < aestetix> I think political correctness is verbal cancer, but I also think nazis are cancer 12:31 <@Catonic> At this point, I'm more fascinated in the sort of concept that was sold and _how_ it was sold, rather than it itself. 12:31 < aestetix> which concept? 12:31 <@Catonic> The concept that one person or group of people is better than everyone else. That's like every religion ever. 12:32 < aestetix> identity politics is dangerous 12:32 <@Catonic> It's the commonality between Judiam and Islam. 12:32 < aestetix> regardless of if its on the left or the right 12:32 < aestetix> on the left it's this nonsense accusing everyone of racism 12:32 < aestetix> on the right it's this shit saying blacks and jews are bad 12:32 < aestetix> it's all bullshit 12:32 <@Catonic> it is because it's needlessly devisive. "These people need to work!" "You need to work." 12:33 <@Catonic> It's a complete lack of empathy, until that person is in those exact circumstances 12:37 <@Catonic> I loathe the American South for those reasons; because people vote against their interests time and again, and accuse other people of being the problem, while lamenting Medicare and the VA... but remember, it's all the unwed mothers getting abortions that's driving down the 'conomy! 12:38 <@Dolemite> Those abortions are the reason that God is punishing the US! 12:38 <@Catonic> Dolemite: clearly! Because there are more straight people in FL than der home-row-sexuals... 12:39 <@Catonic> I always felt like we had a ringside seat to watching things fall apart. 12:40 <@Catonic> Sock factories in Ft. Payne.... NAFTA passes, aluminum plants in Russellville and Decatur close, textiles leave Ft. Payne for Guatemalla. 12:40 <@Catonic> Electronics manufacturing leaves Huntsville, heads for Mexico, but final assembly in Huntsville (so that "Made In America" sticker can go on, even if it's just slapping a case on a manufactured PC board). 12:42 <@Catonic> or in the case of a well-known auto manufacturer, a German corp sells the plant and division to a larger corp also based in .DE, closes the union plant and sends the equipment to Mexico, where everything is done by hand... just like it is down The Parkway. 12:42 < aestetix> Catonic: I'll be honest, after doing time in the Bay Area, I tend to be wary of people who want change for change's sake 12:42 <@Catonic> aestetix: had enough of that recently as well myself. 12:42 < aestetix> On the other hand, sometimes a change is needed 12:42 < aestetix> There's a sort of balance one has to find 12:43 <@Catonic> what I learned? If someone says "we're reorganzing" and it's not a federal job, run like hell. 12:43 <@Catonic> step 1) install metrics 12:43 < aestetix> Exactly 12:43 <@Catonic> step 2) complain that metrics aren't being met. 12:43 <@Catonic> step 3) drive away the people who can't get it together. 12:44 < aestetix> Reason out what you want, and then figure out a provable way to get there 12:44 <@Catonic> step 4) profit! 12:44 < aestetix> And if something doesn't work, stop doing it. 12:46 <@Catonic> Jobs was rights, but Jobs was also a mercurial micro-manager. 12:47 <@Catonic> geez, this ams googles 12:48 <@Catonic> I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself: "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?" And whenever the answer has been "No" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. 12:48 < aestetix> https://medium.com/@chadfelixg/the-nazi-mass-hysteria-of-2017-ec0899ae2cc4 12:48 < PigBot> Title: The Nazi Mass Hysteria of 2017 – Chad Felix Greene – Medium (at medium.com) http://tinyurl.com/y7js6dzk 12:48 < aestetix> I thought this was really insightful --- Log closed Mon Sep 25 12:54:29 2017 --- Log opened Mon Sep 25 13:00:07 2017 13:00 -!- Evilpig [~wilpig@96-80-184-99-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #se2600 13:00 -!- Irssi: #se2600: Total of 40 nicks [17 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 23 normal] 13:00 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Evilpig] by ChanServ 13:00 -!- Irssi: Join to #se2600 was synced in 13 secs 13:00 < aestetix> "By time of writing Wednesday there were already some 350 people in the channel to discuss, collaborate, and offer advice around records requests from the Trump administration." 13:02 < aestetix> Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but the evidence looks pretty convincing to me 13:03 <@Catonic> Politics is boring business of late. One side does something, the other complains, then does the same thing when the other party wins 13:04 <@dasunt> Boring? 13:04 <@Catonic> but I'm not the only one to notice that "the left" left the workers a long time ago. 13:05 < aestetix> yeah, it keeps taking up hotbutton issues that just piss everyone off 13:05 <@Catonic> Trump will go down in history, not as the Second Coming of Supply-Side Jesus, Ronald Reagan, but as his own animal of destruction. 13:06 <@dasunt> Come on, the North Koreans are claiming the US declared war, all while the US is obsessed about our president's fight with the NFL, Ms. May is steering the UK off the Brexit cliff, Merkel is still in power in Germany but the AfD is increasing it's hold. 13:06 <@dasunt> How is that boring? 13:06 < aestetix> And at the moment it seems like Trump could get re-elected because there's nobody better 13:06 < aestetix> which means there might be 8 years of this nonsense 13:06 <@Catonic> NK is just rattling the saber like they always do, because we pay them money not to make ICBMs or plutonium. 13:06 < aestetix> you mean Little Rocket Man? 13:07 <@Catonic> And we haven't been paying them enough lately it seems. 13:07 <@dasunt> If Trump gets re-elected, it's because the Dems don't realize why he won. 13:07 < aestetix> dasunt: so far they haven't 13:07 < aestetix> dasunt: and when it seemed like the dems might finally regroup a little, Hillary came back with her book tour 13:07 <@Catonic> aestetix: buy another towel, I'm moving in. 13:08 * Catonic sells everything on craigslist and heads for aestetix's place 13:08 <@dasunt> I mean, it's not hard to tell why Trump got elected, but it does require recognizing your own privilege, which ironically, the Dems can't do. 13:08 < aestetix> dasunt: you mean it involves talking to people who don't agree with you 13:08 <@dasunt> aestetix: Not even that. It just requires getting out of an affluent bubble. 13:09 < aestetix> dasunt: here's how bad that problem is 13:09 < aestetix> http://blog.samaltman.com/what-i-heard-from-trump-supporters 13:09 < PigBot> Title: What I Heard From Trump Supporters - Sam Altman (at blog.samaltman.com) http://tinyurl.com/gt34vpb 13:09 < aestetix> Sam Altman (YC president) actually had to go on a journey to find trump supporters because he didn't know any 13:10 <@dasunt> LOL, not too surprising. 13:10 <@dasunt> I just have to talk to family. 13:11 < aestetix> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html 13:11 <@dasunt> Admittedly, it's not that surprising, cities tend to be more liberal than the rural area, just because it kinda makes sense. 13:11 < PigBot> Title: RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval (at www.realclearpolitics.com) http://tinyurl.com/y9z5dnha 13:11 < aestetix> and Trump's approval rating has been going up too 13:12 <@dasunt> Trump's just whatever. 13:12 <@dasunt> He's literally what we'd get if we elected a reality TV star. 13:12 <@dasunt> Or, also literally what we'd get if we elected a professional wrestling star. :p 13:13 < aestetix> In the meantime, the liberals have their collection of hotbutton issues they get personally emotional about, and if you try to pose arguments to them they call you a nazi 13:14 < aestetix> This is why I hate everyone :) 13:16 <@dasunt> I don't really mind the liberal issues, unless we get to the tumblr fringwe. 13:16 <@dasunt> I can't really see the controversy in most of the social stuff. 13:18 <@Catonic> I think a wrestling star would have the wherewithall not to get caught making a statement about where he grabs who. 13:19 <@Catonic> unless he was the hell 13:19 <@Catonic> *heel 13:20 <@dasunt> Catonic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMKFIHRpe7I 13:20 < PigBot> Title: Donald Trump bodyslams, beats and shaves Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania XXIII - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/zv7y9h2 13:21 <@Catonic> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe#Faces_and_heels 13:21 < PigBot> Title: Kayfabe - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/y727wplh 13:21 <@dasunt> Somehow, a user here has managed to swap her laptop's fn and ctrl keys. 13:21 <@dasunt> I'm not sure how she did this. 13:22 <@Catonic> dasunt: someone swapped them for her 13:23 <@Catonic> fn is typically handled by the hardware, ergo, fn didn't get remapped. 13:23 <@Catonic> google the computer and see if the chiclets are the same size 13:24 <@Catonic> or some sort of "windows keyboard on a mac" or "mac keyboard on a windows system" 13:24 <@dasunt> Catonic: Nope, she actually swapped them. 13:24 <@dasunt> I dont' know how. 13:25 <@dasunt> I have several laptops of the same model, and on hers, the fn key acts like control, the ctrl key acts like fn. 13:25 <@dasunt> Even for ctrl-alt-delete, which makes me think it isn't software. 13:25 <@Catonic> plug in an external keyboard. one of the ctrls shouldn't work if that's true 13:26 <@dasunt> Catonic: Works with external. 13:26 <@Catonic> osk.exe 13:26 <@dasunt> Wow, GWB does well after 9/11. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/ 13:26 < PigBot> dasunt: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes. 13:27 <@Catonic> dasunt: of course. Now that we all know he always wanted to be an artist instead of President, people like him. 13:28 <@Catonic> If he had ripped that loose while he was in office, he could have won the second election without trying 13:28 <@dasunt> GWB's legacy is saved by Trump. 13:31 <@Dagmar> It's really saying something that Trump makes a President who had the fucking Penguin as his henchman look good 13:32 <@Dagmar> eirikb: Yeah. There might be a _slightly_ better way to do it but at least that one uses plugdev 13:32 <@Dagmar> @#$@ 13:35 <@dasunt> Hmmm, updating the bios fixed the issue, even though I couldn't find any setting to swap those two keys in the bios. 13:36 <@dasunt> Also, our bioses are password protected, so just how the hell did this user manage to bork her laptop? 13:36 <@Catonic> ‘My country, right or wrong,’ is a thing that no patriot would think of saying. It is like saying, ‘My mother, drunk or sober. --€” G. K. Chesterton 13:37 <@Catonic> the one thing I wish I'd seen was that talk that got canceled when dc0de managed to convince a man a third/forth his size to get into a drinking contest with him. 13:38 <@Catonic> something about "my malware is better than your malware, because I pwn the hypervisor." 13:43 <@Catonic> dasunt: seriously, osk.exe is useful for id'ing which key is pressed when 13:43 <@Catonic> though every time I've had a shift key stick, I've never had it up. 13:44 <@Catonic> oh, it's also my duty to tell you all that most of the A-12/SR-71 stuff got declassified in 2013, so if you're interested in either of those two airframes, head out and get the books published after that date. Those guys aren't getting any younger. 13:45 <@Catonic> Richard Graham's last three books are good. Flight sims tend to be iffy, but above 50,000 ft air ... doesn't act like you expect it to at 41,000 ft or lower. 13:46 <@Catonic> The U-2 and F-104 also came out of the Skunk Works ahead of the A-12 / YF-12 / SR-71, so they have similar heritage 13:47 <@Catonic> some of the command staff were the same, like Col Pat Halloran 13:48 <@Catonic> The SR-71 was a basic delta-wing turbojet with afterburners and a voracious appetite for fuel... and most of the compartments were designed to hold that fuel. 13:49 <@Catonic> I actually managed to get a flight sim to behave itself long enough for a simulated flight... it's utterly obscene to be moving that fast. 13:50 <@Catonic> it's also a hard math problem because head-on closure rates are hypersonic, and tail-on closure rates require even more speed to make up the distance in a similar amount of time. 13:51 <@Catonic> The Viggen managed a pair of intercepts, but that's basically 30 minutes notice that it's coming, and scrambling like hell to make 50,000 ft when it's in range for a missile launch, which then has to be able to cover 50kft to 85kft without tumbling 13:52 <@Catonic> thin air, big control surfaces. Air-to-ground missiles don't tend to have big enough surfaces. OTOH, infrared seekers did well, because it's -50 outside at 50+kft and the tail section of the SR is glowing at 3,200 F 14:22 < dc0de[m]> Catonic, who did I drink under the table? I seem to have no memory of this... 15:31 <@Dagmar> Fuck. This. Kid. 15:31 <@Dagmar> https://community.netgear.com/t5/WiFi-Routers-802-11b-g-n-Legacy/WGR614v10-AP-Mode/m-p/1378786/highlight/false#M2805 15:31 < PigBot> Title: Re: WGR614v10 AP Mode? - NETGEAR CommunitiesNetgear Community (at community.netgear.com) http://tinyurl.com/y967xrzc 15:41 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: in my admittedly limited use of such devices, the only way I got both to work correctly was to plug both the WAN and one of the LAN ports into the same segment. 15:42 <@Corydon76> It complains a little about seeing the same subnet on both sides, but it does work 15:50 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:510e:a97f:c0ef:7cb7] has quit [] 16:03 <@dasunt> r/BestofLegalAdvice has had some great ones in the past few days. 16:04 <@dasunt> My personal favorite is the guy who did his own business taxes, and decided to write off the entire cost of his divorce as a business expense since his wife tried to take the business in a divorce, and therefore, it was business-related. 16:05 <@Catonic> dc0de[m]: It was IZ2 or IZ3 16:06 <@Catonic> dasunt lmao 16:07 <@Catonic> dc0de[m] I think his name was Jason 16:08 <@Catonic> I remember he was in place long enough to say the name of his talk and then "I have to go now." 16:08 <@Dagmar> Corydon76: Yeah... I wasn't about to do that to my network. Broadcast loops are the devil's work. 16:09 <@Catonic> I think it was a big bottle of scotch. 16:09 <@Dagmar> Thank god Linux bridging code shuts them down _immediately_ when it sees them happening 16:09 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: Why would that loop? 16:09 <@Dagmar> because broadcast 16:10 <@Dagmar> Also because I don't trust this device any farther than I could potentially digest it at this point 16:10 <@Dagmar> I will _not_ be buying any more devices of this sort, ever again 16:10 <@Dagmar> It's just not worth the trouble 16:10 <@Corydon76> But it shouldn't be routing between the WAN and LAN ports. 16:11 <@Corydon76> NAT, yes. But not routing 16:11 <@Catonic> Ah man, I feel ya 16:11 <@Dagmar> A freakin' RPi3 doesn't exactly have an external antenna, but a $30 USB dongle will do AC with a RPi B and exactly _none_ of this bullshit 16:11 <@Dagmar> That the little twat on the Netgear forum came back to be jerk a _second time_ just boggles my mind 16:12 <@Catonic> I too have wanted to choke someone out when I posted an anonymized network config and the n00bs / paid shitposters were like "well, that's not going to work, it's RFC1918 addresses! What are you trying to do?" 16:12 <@Dagmar> I was just astonished to see a guy with a 16:12 * Catonic holds up three fingers: "Read between the lines!" 16:12 <@Dagmar> "Prodigy" tag next to his name _unable to figure out_ WTF I meant by "LAN port 1" 16:12 <@Corydon76> Catonic: just use navy.mil addresses and see if they react. 16:13 <@Dagmar> It's literally labeled on a sticker and embossed over the ports 16:13 <@Dagmar> He should have just ignored the post if he didn't know this stuff 16:13 <@Catonic> LOL. "It's not RFC1918, it's ARPANET!" 16:13 <@Dagmar> The bit about knowing which way the Internet was kills me 16:13 <@Corydon76> Catonic: Besides, RFC 1918 has been superceded by RFC 3330 16:13 <@Dagmar> It's freaking IP, dangit 16:14 <@Catonic> that's kinda why I went with some other vendor's product, because it's a $60 router that does BGP 16:14 <@Dagmar> Corydon76: I've already made some non-standard uses of that one, too. :) 16:14 <@Dagmar> The ghostpass stuff I was doing used the two undefined 169.254 blocks 16:15 <@Corydon76> I have seen one network where somebody _meant_ it to be Martian addresses, but they were using 192.10.10.0/24 16:15 <@Dagmar> If the Nintendo 3DS doesn't care, then I won't either. :) 16:15 <@Corydon76> Nope, that's a real address... 16:16 <@Dagmar> Heh back at MIMS someone had configured some of our edge netork stuff to use a 127 block that was registered to University of Toronto 16:17 <@Dagmar> Sure enough when I found one of those guys they were like, "Yeah we just filter that entire netblock at the gateway and don't use it" 16:17 <@Dagmar> So much alien traffic 16:18 <@Corydon76> Or no, it was 192.100.100.0/24 16:18 <@Corydon76> I remember because it came up as belonging to .mil 16:18 <@Corydon76> And we let it go, because the chances of that company doing any work for DOD was virtually nonexistent 16:21 <@Dagmar> Frankly I think most of these companies should just _stop_ being such cheapasses on the hardware they use to make wireless routers that the things become unusable with OpenWRT 16:22 <@Dagmar> When they're going to sell them for >$100 they can't possibly be so pressed for money that the extra thirty cents to triple the amount of RAM is going to matter 16:22 <@Corydon76> Is that really their fault, though, or is it the fault of OpenWRT for not keeping up with slimming down their binaries? 16:23 <@Dagmar> Dude they're usually so underpowered that they can't keep up with more than about eight people's connection requirements when they're masquerading 16:23 <@Dagmar> This is the reason they used to have to regularly reboot the wireless Ap at Bongo 16:23 <@Corydon76> Yeah, and right there is the reason they have for selling you pro equipment 16:23 <@Catonic> NAT... zomg, so easy to overwhelm 16:24 <@Dagmar> Yeah screw that. Right there is the reason it's cheaper to build it one's own self 16:24 <@Dagmar> Everything but the Pi zero has a wired ethernet port 16:24 <@Corydon76> If their consumer grade equipment was that good, nobody would buy the mid-grade stuff 16:24 <@Catonic> "There are 65,534 TCP ports available, and an equal number of UDP ports. And you have used all of them... twice... in the last five seconds." 16:24 <@Evilpig> that gap between pro and consumer is getting filled by ubiquity now 16:24 <@Dagmar> I certainly wouldn't be buying the mid-grade stuff from them _now_ 16:25 <@Catonic> Evilpig: ya but he wants a router/wap that does the wap thing silently 16:25 <@Corydon76> Evilpig: Yes, I rather like the AP I have on the wall in my office 16:25 <@Dagmar> Catonic: Even if they were used, how much RAM does that stack of tuples really take up? 16:25 <@Catonic> That gives me a headache 16:25 <@Catonic> not because it's simple, but because so many people can implement it so wrongly 16:25 <@Dagmar> I literally just need the thing to act as a media converter, which is mainly brought on by the fact that the things fail _often_ doing the routing role they're supposed to be able to do 16:25 <@Catonic> and windows. 16:26 <@Catonic> ... and that's why I have a router, and a WAP. the WAP is a WAP. the router is a router. 16:26 <@Catonic> cost me a whole 12W more a month 16:27 <@Corydon76> Catonic: you didn't opt for the solar panel on the rooftop powering it? 16:27 <@Catonic> and then, just to be a real jackass, I setup another wireless client on the same channel connected to another wap on another channel 16:27 <@Corydon76> Only adds $7k to the capital equipment price 16:27 <@Catonic> mainly so when I start copying files, people can either conform to 1, 6, and 11... or get DoS'd. 16:28 <@Corydon76> Speaking of which, I'm rather annoyed at the apparently lack of cheap equipment that does 5GHz only 16:28 <@Catonic> Meh, I have a 55W panel if I want to do that, but I have zero faith in anyone anywhere within 30 miles of my geographic location having the wherewithall not to break the panel out of stupidity or ignorance. 16:28 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:510e:a97f:c0ef:7cb7] has joined #se2600 16:28 <@Corydon76> All the cheap stuff does 2.4 and 5GHz, and you cannot turn off the 2.4 radio 16:29 <@Corydon76> Well, not without opening up the gear and cutting a trace 16:29 <@Catonic> the problem with the cheap stuff is that it's usually so light on the code that you can't reliably expect it to do anything for more than a day without a buffer overflow 16:30 <@Catonic> and yes, 5 GHz should be common, but .. alas, 2.4 GHz is the common denominator 16:31 <@Corydon76> Alas, 2.4 is completely useless if you have any idiots in your neighborhood who don't know the first thing about wireless and instead select a channel other than 1, 6, or 11. 16:31 <@Corydon76> And unfortunately, we can't use channel 14 in the US 16:32 <@Corydon76> I think I saw at one point that we can use Channel 14 with a ham radio license, but only in 802.11b 16:32 <@Corydon76> Which is itself braindead 16:42 <@Corydon76> Catonic: you ever hear of someone setting the Atheros chipset 2.4GHz radio to channel -3? 16:42 <@Corydon76> A page I'm reading says Atheros supports it, and the frequencies appear not to overlap with channel 1. 16:45 <@Dagmar> That sounds like umm... a rather bad idea 16:46 <@Corydon76> I'm trying to figure out if the FCC allows it or not 16:46 <@Dagmar> That depends on what frequency it actually winds up on 16:46 <@Corydon76> The lower frequency dips below 2.400 GHz 16:47 <@Corydon76> 2.392 to 2.402 GHz 16:47 <@Corydon76> Channel 1 starts at 2.412 GHz 16:47 <@Corydon76> Excuse me, that's the center frequency. Starts at 2.402 16:48 <@Catonic> Corydon76: nope. 16:48 <@Corydon76> Might not be supported in consumer devices, but if the FCC allows it, it might be a good choice for a dedicated PtP link 16:48 <@Catonic> Corydon76: I've always wanted to find the radios that support 5 and 10 MHz channels instead, because those + negative channels = done 16:48 <@Catonic> otoh, we've got 3.3-3.5 GHz and that's a noise-free band 16:49 <@Dagmar> I'm thinking that messing with the spectrum used by "medical" devices is a bad press day waiting to happen, but the "military" part of that provision against using channel 14 in the US means guys who play with guns way too much might object 16:50 <@Catonic> yeah, there's some brain-deadedness when it comes to hams and 802.11a/b/g, because some folks think that 802.11b is spread spectrum (it is) and 802.11g isn't (because it's OFDM, which is just a lot of stacked QAM modems) 16:51 <@Catonic> ergo, 802.11g is under "data" therefore, and not under "spread spectrum" so the power limits don't apply 16:51 <@Catonic> which is kinda stupid, because any amount of power at 2.4 GHz is dangerous above 500 mW 16:52 <@Catonic> 10, 25, 50, and 100W can take your eyesight 16:55 <@Catonic> Dagmar: I just finished reading that, and as always it was... priceless. 16:55 <@Dagmar> What, the Netgear forum link? 16:56 <@Catonic> yes 16:56 <@Catonic> I about lost it at Tier 1 tech support gulag 16:56 * Catonic sniffles: "memories." 16:57 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: I'm showing the space which is above 2.400GHz to be ISM, not the space just under 16:58 <@Catonic> Aspirant; lol. "Do not inhale deeply." 16:58 <@Catonic> It's not ISM; it's Part 15 16:58 <@Catonic> ISM is Part 18, Things That Do Not Listen. 16:58 <@Corydon76> All of channel -3 appears to be firmly in Amateur Radio space 16:59 <@Dagmar> That'll get you angry neckbeards showing up on your doorstep 16:59 <@Corydon76> Part 95 and Part 97 16:59 <@Catonic> i.e: giant microwave ovens, diathermy, and other things that sling kilowatts into the air without care or concern for the destination. 16:59 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: No, I mean all of regular Wifi appears to be in Part 18 space 16:59 <@Catonic> Part 15 is 2400 - 2483 MHz 17:00 <@Corydon76> Page 39 of this: https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf 17:00 < PigBot> Corydon76: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes. 17:00 <@Corydon76> Am I reading it wrong? 17:02 <@Catonic> No, that is correct, but it's a matter of perspective. 17:02 <@Corydon76> Eh? 17:02 <@Catonic> Part 18 is there, it's runs with Part 15 for a good bit, but Part 18 is much higher power 17:03 <@Catonic> Part 15 is 4W EIRP; Part 18 isn't supposed to radiate, but it can happen. 17:03 <@Catonic> i.e.: 70-72 is perfectly reasonable for a 10kW cyclotron 17:03 <@Catonic> *70-72 MHz 17:03 <@Catonic> And that would be Part 18. Part 18 devices don't listen. 17:03 <@Catonic> Part 15 does. Part 97 does. 17:04 <@Catonic> The whatever cm band that is is broken into two pieces... Part 97 goes from 2390 - 2450, and there's a sliver elsewhere in 2300 MHz 17:04 <@Corydon76> Right, so channel -3 is entirely in amateur band plan 17:04 <@Catonic> 2300 - 2305 is Part 97 as well 17:04 <@Catonic> correct, as long as the lower band edge is within that span 17:05 <@Corydon76> Well, except for a small bit that overlaps into shared between Part 18 and Part 97. 17:05 <@Corydon76> It is 17:05 <@Corydon76> So I can run channel -3, as long as I follow amateur radio rules 17:06 <@Corydon76> i.e. no pecuniary interest, and I have to transmit my callsign every 10 minutes 17:06 <@Catonic> right, which is kinda a pain because no crypto (unless you're already aware of way to mitigate that) 17:06 <@Corydon76> Ah, right, no crypto 17:06 <@Corydon76> Does that apply even if I transmit the key? 17:07 <@Corydon76> Might be worth asking an Amateur Auxilliary 17:07 <@Catonic> SSID = callsign 17:08 <@Catonic> someone came up with a way to do it in IPv6 a few years ago. 17:10 <@Catonic> you need to go to -1, because the bottom of the channel is 11 MHz down from the center 17:11 <@Catonic> The real caveat with callsigns in IPv6 is making sure they get transmitted. 17:12 <@Catonic> but there are those who think that encryption is OK as long as you can point the FCC to a webpage where the encryption key is published 17:12 <@Corydon76> I was looking at the frequencies listed here: http://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/wireless/allocations.html 17:12 < PigBot> Title: Ham Allocations & Power Comparison (at www.qsl.net) http://tinyurl.com/6npxpbq 17:12 <@Catonic> 2402 - 11 = 2391; 2397-11 = 2386 (no good) 17:13 <@Corydon76> The channel is only 20 MHz wide, though 17:14 <@Catonic> As long as the lower limit doesn't go below 2390 MHz, you're good. 17:14 <@Corydon76> 2.392 appears to be permitted for amateur radio use 17:15 <@Catonic> My current argument for 3.4 GHz is that we can get 90 Mbit/s in a 40 MHz channel, and we only share the band with the USAF. 17:16 <@Corydon76> Yes, but without off-the-shelf equipment, the price rises significantly 17:16 <@Catonic> that and every single mountaintop I've been on has a WISP and/or other tech on 902-928, 2400-2483 MHz, and something on 5 GHz. 17:16 <@Catonic> Ubiquiti makes it for the export market, or did. 17:16 <@Catonic> M3 series 17:16 <@Corydon76> Hmmm 17:17 <@Catonic> Catch is that it's above 2.4 GHz, which means a 4 ft dish = a 6 foot dish, but you really need LOS because trees will eat you up. 17:17 <@Catonic> also, trees grow 17:17 <@Corydon76> Wait, that's TDMA. Is that permitted? 17:17 <@Catonic> but asterisk / all*star link + QoS + multicast = the world. 17:17 <@Catonic> ... how is it _not_ allowed? It's a published mode. 17:19 <@Catonic> we are allowed to do TDMA, just not pulsed RADAR 17:19 <@Catonic> I think it was 73 Magazine that had an article on CW radar... 17:20 <@Catonic> otoh, someone could be adventurous and do CW radar with the callsign imbedded in the outgoing pulse 17:20 <@Corydon76> Anytime I'm dealing with new things I've not dealt with before, I am just cautious, especially when it comes to the FCC 17:20 <@Catonic> i.e.: as if Barker chips. 17:20 <@Corydon76> They have a way of being silent on an issue until they decide you violated the rules 17:21 <@Corydon76> If I'm going to invest time into getting my General license, I'd rather not do anything to piss off the FCC. 17:21 <@Catonic> Understood. But there are people drawing lines to using the data radios to do "ATV" over IP on 420 MHz 17:22 <@Catonic> The FCC is generally behind the curve with tech vs ham radio. At one time, ham radio lead the way... then the cold war happened 17:23 <@Catonic> Once people realized you needed government-grade resources to put together low-probability-of-intercept (LPI) spread-spectrum that combined time hopping, frequency hopping, and direct sequence spread spectrum... they put the kibosh on hams getting really technical. 17:24 <@Catonic> Using someone's "off the shelf" mode just makes it easier to put together the bits from over the air. They know it came off the shelf _somewhere_. 17:24 <@Catonic> as opposed to making the bits yourself, the hard way (i.e.: DSPs and gnuradio). 17:29 -!- Catonic [~catonic@71-45-91-197.res.bhn.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 17:29 -!- Catonic [~catonic@71-45-91-197.res.bhn.net] has joined #se2600 17:29 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ 17:29 <@Catonic> change the terminal size, wash ya hands 18:30 -!- rhia_ [~rhia@66.165.15.89] has joined #se2600 18:33 -!- rhia [~rhia@c-67-183-68-220.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43 -!- rhia_ is now known as rhia 20:43 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o rhia] by ChanServ 20:57 * Catonic whees 23:05 -!- K`Tetch_ [~no@24-178-141-147.dhcp.thtn.ga.charter.com] has joined #se2600 23:07 -!- K`Tetch [~no@unaffiliated/ktetch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] --- Log closed Tue Sep 26 00:00:00 2017