--- Log opened Mon Sep 18 00:00:49 2017
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06:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:25  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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09:10 <@Evilpig> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1479259
09:10 < PigBot> Title: Bug 1479259 The UseDNS configuration option changed default behaviour between 7.3 and 7.4, this breaks existing configurations until manually corrected [rhel-7.4.z] (at bugzilla.redhat.com) http://tinyurl.com/yby9ztay
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09:25 <@Dagmar> Oh!  Someone wasn't watching their changelogs there
09:27 <@Dagmar> triceratux: Looking at his site... is he the British Hippie version of Alex Jones or something?
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10:13 <@dasunt> JFC, can we just get one standardized requirement for passwords?
10:18 <@dasunt> Also, every three fucking months to change a password?
10:18 <@dasunt> This is why people do "September2017!" as a password.
10:19 < xray> Or use a password manager that makes random complex passwords and stores them safely
10:19 <@dasunt> Or "PasswordIremember1!"
10:19 < xray> no excuses for bad passwords and bad opsec
10:19 < xray> if you want to be safe you can't be lazy
10:19 < xray> the enemy won't be lazy
10:20 < xray> he's counting on us being lazy
10:20 <@dasunt> xray: I do, but then there's either syncing the database across all devices or putting your password database in the hands of a third party, which can have breeches, like Lastpass did in 2015.
10:20 < xray> Any program can be vulnerable on any given day
10:21 < xray> you have to minimize your attack surface
10:21 < xray> Does it take effort, yes
10:21 < xray> however the level of increase in security is disproportional to the level of effort required
10:21 <@dasunt> Well, there's minimizing your attack surface but also there's the risk of making your system very attractive to attack.
10:21 < xray> you can be a very very hard target for little effort
10:22 <@dasunt> e.g. if everyone uses a certain password management software, then that's a far more attractive target.
10:22 < xray> could the Internet have been designed with better security from the ground up?
10:22 < xray> yes
10:22 < xray> but it wasn't so
10:23 < xray> if you want to use it put your big boy pants on and become the attackers worst nightmare come to life
10:23 <@Corydon76> xray: excellent illustration of whether things could have been better is the VHS/Beta wars
10:23 < xray> agrreed
10:23 <@Corydon76> Beta was absolutely better technology.  Better technology doesn't always win.
10:24 <@dasunt> Beta had limitations.
10:24 < xray> or umatic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-matic
10:24 < PigBot> Title: U-matic - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/mj8aaxy
10:24 < xray> sometimes its not who has the best technology but who has good enough technology
10:25 < xray> as a hacker we just have to deal with it. Improvise, adapt, overcome
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10:25 < xray> there are no excuses for bad OPSEC
10:25 <@dasunt> Betamax was more expensive, for one.
10:25 <@dasunt> Second, the original format was limited to 60 minutes, versus 120 for VHS.
10:26 < xray> it was a case of short term gain for long term loss
10:26 <@dasunt> And within a few years of Betamax coming out, you had Laserdisc, which was better on the high end.
10:26 < xray> eventually the price of betamax would have come down but VHS was good enough and cheap enough out of the gate to prevent betamax from getting a foothold
10:27 < xray> All irrelevant in light of digital recording
10:27 <@dasunt> While on the low end, VHS had enough time on a videotape to, y'know, actually hold most movies on one cassette.
10:27 < xray> It was an interesting market to watch
10:27 < xray> I was working on next generation recording platforms for NAVAIR at the time
10:28 < xray> past member of SMPTE
10:28 <@Corydon76> dasunt: The whole reason for Beta being more expensive was the licensing fees, though
10:28 < xray> we had digital format conversion but if you had to ask what it cost you couldn't afford it
10:28 <@Corydon76> Sony learned their lesson a generation later when it came to BluRay vs HD
10:28 < xray> today a raspberry pi kicks it's but
10:29 < xray> That was an interesting fight as well
10:29 < xray> The media is just a delivery platform
10:30 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Point was, it had only a slightly better picture quality (at least for the original version), at more expensive, and less playtime.
10:30 < xray> once networks get fast enough to the end user the whole idea of distribution via physical media will die
10:30 < xray> dasunt: true
10:30 < xray> Any technology has to live long enough in the market to become self sustaining.
10:31 <@Corydon76> xray: Ethernet or Token Ring?  :D
10:31 <@dasunt> I'm not sure if the longer player version of Beta that mached VHS playlength could match VHS quality.
10:31 < xray> unless users can build it themselves
10:31 < xray> which is where we are now
10:31 <@Corydon76> Or, hey!  ARCnet
10:31 < xray> LoL
10:31 < xray> hmmmmm
10:31 < xray> I don't think I have any ARCnet hardware anymore
10:32 < xray> but who knows what lurks in my lair
10:32 <@Corydon76> Rimboy had the only acquisition of ARCnet hardware that I've ever seen
10:32 <@Corydon76> But he's long since disposed of his collection
10:32 < xray> I've been getting rid of old hardware and giving it to collectors at the Atlanta Historical Computing Society
10:33 < xray> There is a nice Atlanta Computer Meuseum now
10:33 <@dasunt> I think it's a very geeky thing to get stuck in the trap of considring a system based on one variable that the market doesn't value as much, then diss the market for rejecting it.
10:33 < xray> s/Meuseum/Museum /
10:35 <@Corydon76> dasunt: value in that case is really a ratio.  Comparing ratios can be problematic.
10:35 < xray> To think I just spent time discussing obsolete video recording formats that I could have spent experimenting with code injection vulns, reverse shells, and getting full tty sessions.
10:35 <@dasunt> A loss.
10:35 < xray> Which I am working on with my xfinity cable modem
10:35 < xray> already have root on it
10:36 <@dasunt> And I disussed video formats while waiting for a password reset to come through.  Clearly I use my time in a superior manner.  ;)
10:36 < xray> working on a full shell
10:36 < xray> LoL
10:36 <@Corydon76> I'm discussing while I'm waiting for a security upgrade on an internal server to complete
10:37 <@dasunt> Also I'm at work, so getting anything done that requires more than 40% of my attention is basically impossible.
10:37 < xray> Then again discussing history isn't such a waste. Those who ignore it are doomed to repeat it.
10:37 <@Corydon76> And also listening to a physics grad student rant on for 300 paragraphs after I asked a simple question
10:37 < xray> Corydon76: do you work at a university?
10:38 < xray> also what was the question
10:38 <@Corydon76> No, I work for a distributor of engines
10:38 < xray> what kind of engines
10:38 <@Corydon76> The question was how 2 neutrons appear in the transition from Hydrogen-1 to Helium-4 in a fusion reaction in the middle of stars.
10:39 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Magic.
10:39 < xray> wow. push buttons much.
10:39 < xray> I can see why they went off
10:40 <@Corydon76> The answer is Helium-2 decays with a positron emission to become Hydrogen-2, and the fusion process repeats until you get Helium-4, which is stable
10:40 < xray> reading the article now
10:41 <@Corydon76> That was skipped in this article: https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/ask-ethan-can-normal-stars-make-elements-heavier-and-less-stable-than-iron-e91da01c8554
10:41 < PigBot> Title: Ask Ethan: Can Normal Stars Make Elements Heavier (And Less Stable) Than Iron? (at medium.com) http://tinyurl.com/y9sot5yf
10:41 < xray> apparently also happens naturally on earth
10:41 <@dasunt> Corydon76: As I said, "magic".
10:41 <@Corydon76> Everything else makes sense, but the author skipped over that step
10:41 < xray> this discusses it as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-4
10:41 < PigBot> Title: Helium-4 - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/yaxsp628
10:41 <@Corydon76> xray: in answer to your second question, we distribute small Honda engines
10:42 <@dasunt> I never heard of teh CNO cycle.
10:42 <@Corydon76> The kind that are at the core of lawnmowers, pumps, generators, and tillers
10:43 <@Corydon76> Consequently, all small engines I've acquired recently have Honda engines
10:43 <@Corydon76> Err, all small gasoline-powered devices
10:44 <@Corydon76> At some point, I'm going to find a need to buy a Honda generator.
10:44 <@dasunt> Weird, I'm going to be rebuilding a carb off a Honda engine very soon.
10:45 <@dasunt> I think it's a Keihen(?) carb though.
10:45 <@Corydon76> I'll have to go look through my Honda training again to understand that.
10:46 <@Corydon76> It's mostly forgotten since I'm not actually a tech.
10:47 <@Corydon76> But it's good to get some domain knowledge when you're trying to edit badly coded web apps, so the app doesn't inadvertently get edited to say something incorrect.
10:48 < xray> Honda makes decent small engines
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10:48 < xray> not to mention large ones line in my Pilot
10:48 <@dasunt> Corydon76: The engine was probably built in '78 or '79.  It's not knowledge you need.
10:49 <@dasunt> It's just my 49cc moped which I picked up a few weeks ago for free.
10:49 <@Corydon76> dasunt: well, the small engines all still have carburetors. They're not like car engines which are computer-controlled.
10:49 <@dasunt> It's amazing there's still mod stuff being made for these engines.
10:50 <@dasunt> I could buy a custom carb and the appropriate adapter even today.
10:51 <@dasunt> But right now, my problem is the fuel lines, not the carb, so I need to do that tonight if I have time.
10:52 <@Corydon76> Honda training was the first time I encountered the Venturi effect
11:08 < xray> I have rebuilt my share of carburetors and it has never been fun.
11:08 < xray> If I had to do it today I would consider replacing it with an electronic TBI.
11:08 < xray> http://www.ecotrons.com/products/small_engine_fuel_injection_kit/
11:08 < PigBot> Title: Small Engine Fuel Injection Kit - Small Engine EFI conversion kit (at www.ecotrons.com) http://tinyurl.com/mmljvb8
11:09 < xray> Just and example not a recommendation of the vendor/manufacturer
11:10 < xray> wow that's expensive
11:10 < xray> or to keep it hacking relevant, build your own
11:10 < xray> http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2014/January/Arduino-Controlled+Fuel+Injection+For+Small+Engines?res=nonflash
11:10 < PigBot> Title: Arduino-Controlled Fuel Injection For Small Engines - January 2014 - Silicon Chip Online (at www.siliconchip.com.au) http://tinyurl.com/y9t4hp8j
11:11 <@dasunt> xray: This is two cycle, direct oil injection.  Do I really want to mess with modding it?
11:11 < xray> You code even convert the motor to propane
11:12 < xray> Ah two cycle
11:12 < xray> yeah oil is an issue
11:12 < xray> but some googling may provide a nice answer
11:12 <@dasunt> My goal is to count every turn of the set screws, disassemble it, clean out dried residue, reassemble it, and pray.
11:12 < xray> You could also just buy a refurbished carb
11:13 < xray> unless you have a burning desire to rebuild one yourself
11:13 < xray> technically not that difficult
11:13 < xray> depending on the carb
11:13 <@dasunt> I'm going to try to rebuild this one.
11:13 <@dasunt> Else there's an adapter for (IIRC) $50ish and a knockoff carb for $30ish.
11:14 <@dasunt> I have the full service manual, so I should be able to disassemble a simple 2 cycle carb (knock on wood).
11:15 < xray> I've rebuilt everything from small 2 cycle up to 850CFM 4 barrel
11:16 < xray> I also designed a custom electronic ignition for my 1970 dodge challenger
11:16 < xray> If I had the car today I'd also build a fuel injection system
11:17 < xray> and distributor less ignition
11:17 < xray> Then again I was a serious gear head in my day
11:18 < xray> now I build fast computers
11:18 < xray> and CTFs
11:20 < xray> apparently EFI on 2 cycle makes them more efficient and you get a better power curve
11:20 < xray> http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a27046/ktm-two-stroke-transfer-port-injection-tpi/
11:20 < PigBot> Title: KTM's New Fuel-Injected Two-Strokes Could Save the Endangered Engine (at www.popularmechanics.com) http://tinyurl.com/yaz7eh76
11:20 < xray> back to hacking
11:39 <@dasunt> Huh.
11:47 <@Dagmar> The real question is can they make them not sound like a toddler beating the hell out of a tin can
11:48 <@Dagmar> I am *not* a fan of the way a 2-stroke sounds
11:51 < dc0de[m]> I learned to rebuild 2 stroke engines when I was 6. They're how I made money in high school.
11:51 < dc0de[m]> I'd rebuild 2 stroke outburst motors for my dad's friends for cash
11:51 < dc0de[m]> Outboard.
11:59 <@Corydon76> I suppose that's one reason why all of Honda's engines are 4-stroke
15:10 <@dasunt> Are they nowq?
15:16 <@Corydon76> We're a regional distributors for them, and every engine is 4-stroke, yes.
15:17 <@Corydon76> I was about to write tri-state, but we just added two states at the beginning of the month.
15:18 <@Corydon76> (Another distributor ceded territory, and Honda gave the states to us.)
--- Log closed Mon Sep 18 15:48:07 2017
--- Log opened Mon Sep 18 15:49:27 2017
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16:01 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Does Honda no longer make 50cc scooters?
16:01 <@Corydon76> I have no idea
16:01 <@Corydon76> Honda sportbikes?  Different division than we handle
16:02 <@dasunt> Huh, looking at scootesr on Honda, and they are all four stroke that I can find.
16:03 <@dasunt> I thought 2 stroke had more power with equal displacement, but maybe environmental regs and increased technological performance led to four strokes being adopted.
16:03 <@Corydon76> No, 4 stroke has more power than 2 stroke
16:03 <@Corydon76> 2 stroke is more fuel efficient
16:04 <@dasunt> You want to check that?
16:04 <@Corydon76> I'm certain about the power
16:04 <@dasunt> 4 stroke has 1 power stroke per every 4 strokes.  2 strokes has 2 power strokes per every 4 strokes.
16:04 <@Corydon76> It's one of the things we tout about 4-stroke engines:  more torque
16:05 <@dasunt> torque != power
16:05 <@Corydon76> Oh, you're talking about something different, then
16:06 <@dasunt> Yep.
16:07 <@dasunt> Note that on a bicycle, I can give a torque of a small car (220 lbs, 175mm cranks - say about 110 ft-lbs of torque).
16:08 <@dasunt> My HP maxes out probably something like 1/4 - 1/2, IIRC human horsepower maxes correctly.
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17:14 <@Dagmar> w00t! https://www.adafruit.com/product/3602
17:14 < PigBot> Title: Google AIY Voice Kit for Raspberry Pi ID: 3602 - $0.00 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits (at www.adafruit.com) http://tinyurl.com/y8aahbz5
17:18 <@Dagmar> Oh damn  Already sold out
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 19 00:00:51 2017