--- Log opened Wed Aug 09 00:00:22 2017
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06:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:34  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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07:08 <@Mirage> I just love the IBM tools sometimes.   I needed a laugh this morning.
07:08 <@Mirage> IBM: We need you to test connection, please ping port 4948.
07:08 <@Mirage> Me: OK, what protocol and what output are we looking for?
07:09 <@Mirage> IBM:  connection is IP PIPE.
07:09 <@_NSAKEY> Mirage: Did the IBM drone on the other end mention that they're a CISSP?
07:11 <@Mirage> I started to fire back on him and tell him he was a fucking idiot, but then I thought, "ya know, we're subcontracted by IBM on this account, I probably shouldn't piss them off."
07:12 <@_NSAKEY> Heh. I know that feeling, right down to the "subcontracted by IBM" part.
07:12 <@Mirage> Looking at his email signature, he's from "IBM Pvt Ltd, Bangalore".
07:13 <@Mirage> Given that information, I'm suprised he got "IP" right.
07:13  * Mirage has a very low opinion of India technical people.
07:13 <@_NSAKEY> A couple of months back, I had to deal with one of their guys calling at 3 AM because the status updates he was getting were meaning-free. I couldn't really blame the guy.
07:14 <@_NSAKEY> You would probably love my most recent phone call with Comcast, then, since they outsourced their consumer tech support to India.
07:15 <@_NSAKEY> If you add "account security" to your account, the script doesn't tell the outsourced cluebags to actually prompt anyone calling for it.
07:15 <@Mirage> Comcast is so horrible anyway, I don't see how it could have possibly effected them.
07:15 <@_NSAKEY> And of course, the script is infallible.
07:16 <@_NSAKEY> They were pretty awful when I last had their service during 2009-2010, but they still used Americans.
07:16 <@_NSAKEY> I got Comcast service again when I moved last year, and the difference was very clear.
07:16 <@Mirage> About half the time when I called I wound up with Canadians
07:17 <@_NSAKEY> If I had been a customer all of that time, I would have probably not noticed the gradual downward trajectory of customer service quality.
07:18 <@_NSAKEY> That being said, I get the advertised speeds without issue, and all of the outages are clearly maintenance because of when they happen and how long they last.
07:19 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agU-mHFcXdw
07:19 < PigBot> Title: 2017/08/08: James Damore and his Google Memo on Diversity - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybg4ggjd
07:19 < aestetix> interview with the guy
07:20 < aestetix> with actual facts and reasonable questions
07:21 < aestetix> wow, some new information too
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08:44 < Synx_hm> comcast is both parked in my driveway, and also blocking that car thats parked in my drive way with another truck
08:44 < Synx_hm> should i go shoot their tires out?
08:45 < aestetix> give them a towboot
08:46 < Synx_hm> too little too late comcast, already on the fiber tit of att
08:46 < Synx_hm> no idea what they are even doing out there, they are pulling all new cable through the dead end street im on
08:46 < Synx_hm> they already offered "2Gbs" service over docsis 3.1 here
08:57 <@_NSAKEY> Synx_hm: How many catches did they attach to that offering? Sounds like the set-up to a deal with the devil.
08:57 < Synx_hm> haha i never took that deal it was $300 per month
08:58 < xray> that's crazy money
08:58 <@_NSAKEY> I'm going to guess that they weren't also offering 2 Gb/s up...
08:58 < xray> that's what happens when there is no competition in the last mile
08:58 < Synx_hm> they only offered it to "beat google" because people are too stupid to realize that a) your home linksys router dont have no 2gbps switching hardware b) your fuckign wifi aint gonna do 2gbps and c) their upstream tear for it was likely 10Mbps
08:59 < Synx_hm> only reason they are allowed to currently advertise 'faster than google' is because google doesn't bundle a wifi router with their service, so technically they have faster wifi
08:59 < Synx_hm> or thats what i read
09:00 <@_NSAKEY> That's firmly within "Roll your own router with an old PC and some SFP+ cards" territory.
09:00 < Synx_hm> right but who of the comcast customer base even knows what any of that means ;)
09:00 < Synx_hm> its a silly service to offer
09:00 < xray> So they "provide" the service but price it so no one in their right mind would bight at that price and stave off any competition from Google.
09:00 <@_NSAKEY> Exactly.
09:00 < Synx_hm> oh btw, it still had the 1TB bw cap
09:01 <@_NSAKEY> xray: And let's not forget the passive-aggressive games they played here to even keep Google Fiber from rolling out.
09:01 < xray> yeah I read about that
09:01 < Synx_hm> thankfully google lit a fire under ATT's ass
09:01 < Synx_hm> they are pushing fiber rollout like made here
09:01 < Synx_hm> too bad their peering is complete garbage
09:02 < xray> AT&T keeps coming to my door (yes door to door) and trying to convince me that fiber is in my neighborhood now.
09:02 <@_NSAKEY> Synx_hm: They were really forcing the 1 TB cap with that plan? That's some comcastic bullshit.
09:02 < xray> The only problem is that there isn't fiber in my neighborhood.
09:03 < Synx_hm> _NSAKEY, i was never on the plan but as i understand it yes, no idea if thats still the case though
09:03 <@brimstone> xray: they visited me once when i lived out near you
09:03 <@_NSAKEY> xray: AT&T in general is brain-damaged when it comes to their offerings and how they stack up.
09:03 <@Corydon76> xray: yeah, and they're protected from bait-and-switch charges, because the people coming to your door are fly-by-night subcontractors, not employees of AT&T
09:03 < xray> It's still copper back to the DSLAM and fiber from their to the CO
09:03 < Synx_hm> ATT is stuck 20 years in the past
09:03 < xray> totally agree
09:03 <@_NSAKEY> For example, when I first moved here, AT&T tried telling me that their dedicated 6 mbit up/down plan was going to be better than comcast's shared 250 down/20 up, because their line was dedicated.
09:04 < xray> since when is door to door sales even remotely efficinet
09:04 < xray> efficient
09:04 < Synx_hm> there's another provider here on the outskirts, United... they are hilarious, its a tiny shop and they are still suck selling on the mindset that you have to have active copper pair for DSL service, nevermind almost their entire deployment is 100% fiber to the prem
09:04 < Synx_hm> _NSAKEY, lol they told me that same shit numerous times door to door
09:04 <@Corydon76> xray: when people routinely block calls and toss their flyers directly in the trash
09:05 < Synx_hm> ATT came to my door a week after i already had their fiber service activated to sell me and upgraded 8Mbps DSL service that was way faster than any offering comcast had or so they said
09:07 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: It was also funny when Comcast sent out a salesman to my door to ask me to "reconsider" after I had changed from residential Comcast internet to business Comcast internet.
09:07 <@Corydon76> Their divisions don't talk to one another.
09:08 < Synx_hm> ha
09:08 < Synx_hm> i do a lot of work with ATT's business teams with my company, lots of ATT flex reach circuits, mpls links etc
09:08 <@Corydon76> Convinced him to look into the system, and there I was, plain as day.  He was relying upon the paper sheet he was given at the beginning of the day
09:09 < Synx_hm> lets just say if i had the choice i would not do business with either ATT at all, not business divisions, not residential divisions
09:10 < Synx_hm> i feel bad for those door to door folks, they are so uninformed though lack of communication from the bobs and not given the tools to even understand the words they are saying
09:10 <@Corydon76> The main issue I have with a lot of them is that there's no way to know whether their service will even be acceptable until after you've signed up for a 2-year contract
09:10 <@Dolemite> door to door works on septuagenarians, like my parents...   fortunately they told me they were switching to U-Verse DSL before it actually happened and I was able to get them to cancel it
09:11 <@_NSAKEY> Corydon76: I got lucky on that front when I moved to my current place. The front office people even said "AT&T sucks, go with Comcast." Aside from that, the communal wifi used AT&T. I used it as a test... And it sucked.
09:12 < Synx_hm> _NSAKEY, i have 1Gbps up/down and i cant even watch a fucking youtube video at 140P
09:12 < Synx_hm> though thats due to their IPv6 network being complete garbage
09:12 < Synx_hm> if i turn off IPv6 its mostly ok, minus peering to some carriers
09:13 < Synx_hm> im honestly quite surprised how shitty it actually is for a Tier 1 ISP
09:17 < Synx_hm> oh have i mentioned that ATT requires 802.1x port auth from their provided wifi/router gateway on all of their uverse service to include fiber
09:17 < Synx_hm> and the gateway they provide is complete garbage
09:17 < Synx_hm> it doesn't have a true bridge mode so even in "DMZ+" mode you are going through its tiny nat state table
09:18 <@Corydon76> I agree that they seem to jury-rig their equipment far more often than seems to be necessary
09:18 < Synx_hm> ya
09:18 <@Corydon76> That's not even new.  Their DSL equipment from 10 years ago had the same terrible hacks
09:19 < Synx_hm> Corydon76, thats the context for that golang app im writing, proxy 802.1x port auth to bypass their horrid gateway
09:19 < Synx_hm> ive already bypassed the thing buy live swapping VLANs on my switch so the ONT doesn't see the link go down after port auth is already completed :)
09:19 < Synx_hm> but id like to automate the process
09:20 <@Evilpig> comcast is currently shaping my outbound traffic in some fucked up manner
09:20 <@Evilpig> I see outbound streams start at 200k then drop to 40k then take on this wave form from 40 up to 120 and back down
09:22 < Synx_hm> pig, good thing Comcast is all for netnutrality, otherwise id be scared
09:23 < Synx_hm> well they say they are all for what netneutrality stand for just not for the title 2 classification that makes it enforceable, bwahahahahaha
09:23 < Synx_hm> the twitter responses to that media campaign were hilarious
09:36 < K`Tetch> they're for neutrality, because the NBC merger requirements make them
09:36 < K`Tetch> they expire end of this year though
09:37 < Synx_hm> more clearly they are for saying what ever the public wants to hear from them nevermind they service a different lord and have no intentions of honoring anything they say
09:37 < K`Tetch> yeah, I know
09:37 < K`Tetch> I did the initial net neutrality investigations into Comcast
09:38 <@Evilpig> you don't have to care about service when you have a monopoly
09:38 < Synx_hm> i didn't believe all the hype on comcast being the devil, i thought surely they cant be that bad, i had never done business with them before, but had been with a number of other 'shitty' yes somewhat honorable ISPs previously
09:38 < K`Tetch> (1 years ago this week we published)
09:39 < Synx_hm> comcast is a different beast, when i signed up with them every single thing they told me i was getting was a 100% lie, they deliverd me a completely different package than i purchased, one that was twice as expensive and even tripple billed me for it for 4 months, and one that offered only a subset of what they promised me on the phone with the sale
09:39 < Synx_hm> they are literally the worst company i have ever done business with
09:39 < Synx_hm> oh nice
09:40 < K`Tetch> *10 years ago
09:41 < K`Tetch> I'm with charter now, no real problems, except their service is slow
09:41 < K`Tetch> 60/5
09:42 < Synx_hm> i will say one thing positive about comcast or at least my experience with them, aside from their horrid dishonesty their actual service once i got it provisioned to the level i paid for, was consistent and reliable
09:45 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: I've taken to recording my phone calls now.  If someone promises me something on the phone, I will have a recording of it.
09:45 <@Corydon76> Good thing Tennessee is a one-party state.
09:45 < Synx_hm> i am truly curious what they are doing outside though, its a dead end street with 10 houses, what purpose could they have to upgrade infrastructure here if they already offer their highest tier
09:45 < Synx_hm> Corydon76, i had been meaning to look that up, thanks for the note!
09:46 < Synx_hm> i had to take to twitter, email, BBB, and file FCC complaints to get action out of comcast to remediate my bill
09:46 < K`Tetch> i know ga is single party
09:46 <@Corydon76> I'm sure there's a webpage that summarizes each state
09:46 < K`Tetch> (had fun discussions in federal court on that)
09:46 < K`Tetch> there is
09:46 < Synx_hm> it was truly comical, at one point the told me i didn't qualify for the package they sold me because i wasn't a new customer anymore since i had already signed up (for said fucking package)
09:46 < K`Tetch> https://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/telephone.htm
09:46 < PigBot> Title: Summary of Consent Requirements for Taping Telephone Conversations (at www.aapsonline.org) http://tinyurl.com/yaekd7uy
09:47 < xray> So in Georgia you don't have to inform the other party you are recording?
09:48 < K`Tetch> correct
09:48 < Synx_hm> this might sound silly but curious how it applies, is it the state i am physically in when i make the call? the state with which i have residency, or perhaps the state wich with my tel number originally resided from a area code/exchange perspective
09:48 < xray> Now that is interesting
09:48 < Synx_hm> going to assume its where my physical body is at this moment
09:48 < K`Tetch> Synx_hm - physically in
09:49 < Synx_hm> thanks, figured that was a dumb question
09:49 < xray> so what happens if one party is in Georgia and the other is in a state that requires two party auth and notification
09:49 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: it's a legally gray area.  Federal law is one-party, which is generally what would apply in an interstate transaction
09:49 < K`Tetch> 2 party superceeds,unless that state law permits it (like nevada)
09:49 < K`Tetch> OR you might be able to argue that in that case, federal law (single party) applies
09:49 < K`Tetch> but thats complex and has gone both ways
09:50 < Synx_hm> so, how do you know where the call center you are dialing resides?
09:50 < Synx_hm> what if its in india?
09:50 < K`Tetch> thats going to be federal
09:50 < K`Tetch> which is 18usc 2511
09:50 <@Corydon76> You could argue that if you place the call, you're bound by whatever the greater of your state and the state you're calling requires
09:50 < Synx_hm> i guess it probably doesn't matter since most IVRs say you are being recorded anyways
09:51 < K`Tetch> thats how many courts have gone, Corydon76
09:51 < Synx_hm> on that note, if the IVR says im being recorded and i dont hang up thats implied consent right?
09:51 < K`Tetch> I know thats the case if you call illinois, for instance
09:51 <@Corydon76> Whereas if you receive the call, they're essentially coming to you, so your own state's laws would only apply
09:51 < K`Tetch> correct Synx_hm
09:52 < K`Tetch> but its complex when crossing state lines, always will be until there's a bright-line ruling
09:52 < K`Tetch> and the consent laws are not just for telephone calls
09:52 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: There's a danger of saying calls WILL be recorded, though, as it implies that you will have a record, which can be subpoenaed.
09:52 < K`Tetch> they're for all audio recording
09:53 <@Corydon76> That's why many IVRs say that calls MAY be recorded
09:53 < K`Tetch> thats why they say 'may be recorded'
09:53 < Synx_hm> oh i hadn't noticed that, nice
09:53 < K`Tetch> (which can also be taken as implicit consent)
09:53 < Synx_hm> what if i dont want to consent but i have to speak with somebody about the nature of my business with said company, how am i to contact them?
09:54 < K`Tetch> but police officers have tried using these same laws to squash recordings of them performing their jobs, for instance
09:54 < K`Tetch> you can try withdrawing consent
09:54 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: at the beginning of the call, you'd have to explicitly say that you don't consent
09:54 < K`Tetch> but if they and you are in two-party states, probably won't do much
09:55 < Synx_hm> i keep my thumb over the cell phone camera while i poop because i dont want to consent to google recording audio of my shits, perhaps all i really need to do is just repeat 'i do not consent to your recording of audio of me shitting' while i poop
09:56 < K`Tetch> well, the onyl way they'd make you aware of the recording is if they produced it, and then they'd have you withdrawel of consent
09:56 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: Laws haven't kept up with the technology, so many states don't have a prohibition on video recording, just audio recording
09:56 < Synx_hm> ha
09:56 < K`Tetch> Corydon76 - no, thats not a technology thing, thats more physics based
09:56 < Synx_hm> wonder what happens if i make all my google home/alexa commands with 'hey google, i do not consent but... what is the weather today'
09:56 < K`Tetch> I can see you doing somethign 200 yards away, I can't hear what you're saying
09:57 <@Corydon76> Although that can also traverse into "reasonable expectation of privacy" and obscenity laws
09:57 < K`Tetch> if I'm in public and I can see you, I can see you, I have to make an effort to hear you
09:57 < Synx_hm> not that big of effort to use a parabola
09:57 < K`Tetch> more than using your eyes
09:57 < Synx_hm> true ha
09:57 <@Corydon76> They generally cannot record in places like bathroom stalls, where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy
09:58 < K`Tetch> and what state are you in, Synx_hm
09:58 < Synx_hm> TN
09:58 < K`Tetch> yeah, you can try withdrawing consent, won'tmatter
09:59 < K`Tetch> §39-13-601(b)(5) - whatever you're speakin to is a party
09:59 < K`Tetch> so google is a party when you speak to google home
10:00 < K`Tetch> now, all party states, notification isn't always 'i'm recording this call'
10:00 < K`Tetch> some states allow a'beep every 60 seconds' to be considered notification
10:00 < Synx_hm> ya so im f'ed
10:00 < Synx_hm> might as well be naked all the time while using my phone i guess
10:02 <@Corydon76> Nakedness is not a guarantee of privacy.  It's the environment which conveys the reasonable expectation, not your physical state of undress
10:02 < K`Tetch> erno, please dont
10:02 <@Corydon76> If you streak the Mall of America, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy
10:02 < Synx_hm> ;) i realize it doesn't assure privacy but might as well make it uncomfortable for all involved
10:04 < Synx_hm> on a serious note, why do i feel compelled to put stickers on all of my laptop cameras, but dont give much thought to taking a phone into a bathroom stall (in actuality i do give it much thought, but many do not). Perhaps im just more paranoid than most
10:05 <@Corydon76> Because your laptop cam is generally always positioned correctly to get a view of a room, whereas a cellphone camera is only incidentally positioned
10:06 < Synx_hm> a little anecdote; there was once a time where we could take our cell phones into classified briefings so long as they were powered off and in view, from there it changed to battery removed and in view, however its been a long time since that was allowed, now no transmit capable devices enter secure areas, and many of the higher classification areas employ cell phone detectors
10:06 <@Corydon76> If you set your phone on a table, the 2 cameras see black and the ceiling.  Not optimal.
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10:18 < Synx_hm> this is interesting: https://medium.com/@Gtwy/comcasts-2000mbit-fiber-to-the-home-f106d64d5f51
10:18 < PigBot> Title: Comcast’s 2000Mbit Fiber to the Home – James Watt – Medium (at medium.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybfdhpug
10:18 < Synx_hm> that reads and implies like Comcast 2Gbps 'Gigapro' service is actually delivered over fiber and not docsis 3.1?
10:18 < Synx_hm> that dude is saying he has 2Gbps symmetric service on it no cap
10:28 < Synx_hm> holy shit did they ever build that out
10:28 < Synx_hm> i fail to see comcast doing dedicated 6 strand fiber drops for every customer that orders gigapro
10:28 <@_NSAKEY> Heh. I'm reading this, Synx_hm. There's a guy on /r/homelab who I think searches for references to that Ubiquity XG model, to tell people it's garbage and not to buy it.
10:29 < Synx_hm> ya i picked that up out of /r/homelab haha
10:30 < Synx_hm> _NSAKEY, im not taking crazy pills right, no chance in hell if i were to order that service that i would get a dedi fiber drop from half way across town
10:30 <@_NSAKEY> Mikrotik's got an all-SFP+ router coming out soonish for $400. I'd spring for that if I was as crazy as the guy who wrote the article.
10:30 <@_NSAKEY> I think Comcast just decided to swallow their pride, and the bill, on that one.
10:31 <@_NSAKEY> They had already denied the guy once, and he offered to pay the difference.
10:31 < Synx_hm> ha you can get some of those newer ubnt switches on their beta testing sales portal for much cheaper
10:31 <@_NSAKEY> At that point, I think it's their fault for not budgeting the build out correctly.
10:31 <@_NSAKEY> They might have also decided it was alright once they realized he was evangelizing hard for them.
10:31 < Synx_hm> im still really confused
10:32 < Synx_hm> everything i read about that service says its DOCSIS 3.1 over coax feed
10:32 <@_NSAKEY> This is going to be really interesting for set-ups like that guy's when it comes out: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs317_1g_16s_rm
10:33 < PigBot> Title: MikroTik Routers and Wireless - Products: CRS317-1G-16S+RM (at mikrotik.com) http://tinyurl.com/yb6quupv
10:35 < Synx_hm> that looks cool but do you have to pay for service subscription like all their cloudap/routing licenses?
10:35 <@Corydon76> I wonder what the next killer app will be that makes us actually clamor for that kind of service.
10:35 <@_NSAKEY> I wouldn't know, since I have no intention of buying one.
10:35 < Synx_hm> porn
10:36 < Synx_hm> its always porn leading the way
10:36 <@_NSAKEY> I'm going to see what /r/homelab has to say about it.
10:36 <@Corydon76> Porn is already sufficiently fast, though
10:36 < Synx_hm> how large is a raw 4K stream?
10:36 <@_NSAKEY> But what about VR porn?
10:36 < Synx_hm> VR 8K porn
10:36 <@Corydon76> That's a good point.  My eyes can't see a benefit to a 4K display, though
--- Log closed Wed Aug 09 11:05:45 2017
--- Log opened Wed Aug 09 11:12:20 2017
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11:43 <@Mirage> honestly I'm fine with 720..about the only thing that really benefits 1080p is CGI..and depending on what it is, the CGI is better (content-wise) at 720 than 1080 because it's less obvious
11:48 <@Dolemite> As you get older, LIKE ME, the benefit you get is the increased contrast.  I have a much harder time seeing low contrast then I did 10 years ago.
11:49  * Dolemite waves his cane in the air in defiance and mumbles something about whipper snappers
11:50 < dc0de[m]> Dolemite, I feel ya.
11:50 < xray> Oh good it was only your cane. I thought for a moment there you might wave your wheelchair.
11:50 <@Dolemite> I'm too old and feeble to pick it up
11:50 <@_NSAKEY> The biggest benefit to 720p, in my opinion, is ratio whoring on private trackers.
11:51 < xray> That's what we have killer robots for.
11:51 <@_NSAKEY> Other than that, I've become a fan of 1080p for things I care about.
11:51 <@opticron> I'm moving in that direction, too
11:51 <@opticron> but I'm also capturing existing series in whatever res I started with
11:51 <@_NSAKEY> Shows I don't care about are still 720p.
12:10 < Synx_hm> _NSAKEY, ive gone to only downloading remux bluray content, only when i cannot find the remux to i dabble with a transcode, and then once i find the remux i delete and redownload
12:11 < Synx_hm> but ill be honest its a stupid OCD tick of mine, i watch some of these movies maybe once, its just wasting space and BW
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12:19 < Synx_hm> anybody kept up with the last two seasons of halt and catch fire?
12:20 < Synx_hm> if so is it worth going back and watching them? i lost interest after season one in favor of mr robot
12:22 <@_NSAKEY> That's because Season 1 sucks.
12:22 <@_NSAKEY> You should read the wikipedia episode summaries of season 1, then watch the rest of it.
12:29 < Synx_hm> k
12:29 < Synx_hm> thanks! was hoping it had gotten better
12:30 <@_NSAKEY> In my opinion, it started to get good around episode 9 or so of the first season, with just a hint of the promise of things to come.
12:30 <@_NSAKEY> I won't spoil too much, except to say that the characters the show focuses on changes for the better.
13:09 < K`Tetch> 11:04:05 «Synx_hm» on a serious note, why do i feel compelled to put stickers on all of my laptop cameras, but dont give much thought to taking a phone into a bathroom stall <-- easy I don't use bathroom stalls
13:09 < K`Tetch> and i haven't started h+cf, its n my netflix list
13:09 < K`Tetch> that and mr roboto
13:11 < Synx_hm> :)
13:12 < K`Tetch> but seriously, only used a bathroom stall once in the last 20 years
13:12 < K`Tetch> I go once a week, on a sunday evening, if I need to or not, at home
13:13 <@Evilpig> K`Tetch: that takes alot of committment to use the sink in that many public bathrooms.  respect.
13:13 < K`Tetch> stall is sitting down, to me. rather than the urina
13:13 < K`Tetch> l
13:14 <@Evilpig> I just assumed you meant you were sitting on the counter filling the sink.
13:15 < K`Tetch> friend did that at a party once... sink came off the wall
13:16 < Synx_hm> aside, i had a friend at a party get so drunk he went to his car to get something got lost on the way back walked into the neighboors house and proceeded to walk into the bathroom and take a dump
13:17 < K`Tetch> just plan ahead. if I'm going away for the weekend, I'll crap beforehand
13:20 < K`Tetch> in other news, I just came up with a cool idea for a product, that I could really use for dragoncon. That's another thing to squeeze into my 'todo" list for the next 3 weeks
13:21 < frsilent> oh yeah who all is going to dragoncon? I have a wedding on the 3rd I'm coming up to; thinking about coming up thursday evening with the gf & getting the 4-day passes at $280 total
13:21 < K`Tetch> potential kickstarter coming up...
13:21 < frsilent> since our boarding will be free
13:21 < K`Tetch> xray is the EFF track assistant director, and giving panels
13:22 < K`Tetch> I'm giving panels http://ktetch.co.uk/2017/08/dragon-con-2017/
13:22 < frsilent> I think I went to the hacker 101 thing a couple of years ago & saw some friendly faces
13:22 < xray> aestetix: https://axibase.github.io/atsd-use-cases/Expatriation_Q2/
13:22 < PigBot> Title: United States Expatriation at an All-Time High (at axibase.github.io) http://tinyurl.com/ybvv7maf
13:22 < frsilent> I like strickland a lot & we was at that one
13:23 < K`Tetch> then you probably saw me if it was this decade, frsilent, either working for xray or trying (and failing) to fill his shoes
13:23 < xray> K`Tetch: you did a great job
13:23 < K`Tetch> you do the greatest job though
13:23 < xray> thanks
13:24 < frsilent> I've been following 2600 since like 2003 but it's always been kind of backburnered
13:24 < frsilent> military, jobs, etc taking priority
13:24 < frsilent> & with software I ended up in web/mobile so haven't done a great job of staying connected
13:26 < K`Tetch> i do more policy/politics/reporting than robotics, and i've not coded in almost 20 years. i'm mainly here to chew the fat
13:27 < frsilent> I love code still; I've managed to stay passionate about that. But fuck I hate xml/html/css/anything-not-dealing-with-problem-solving-but-design
13:33 < K`Tetch> I always hated code. the C++ module was the only part of my robotics degree I really hated
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14:20 < Synx_hm> frsilent, i've recently discovered i love golang, my only real extended dev experience was C/x86 asm so im finding go much more familiar and its awesome
14:22 < frsilent> nice, I looked at it a while ago & thought it was pretty cool
14:22 < frsilent> Rust seemed really interesting as well
14:22 < Synx_hm> rust was also on the short list, i just happened to get into go first
14:22 < frsilent> I've done a lot of Django & then native Android, lately been working on xamarin for a cross-platform app my company has
14:23 < frsilent> I was hoping to look more into Kotlin since it might be able to solve some of the same things we use xamarin for
14:30 < Synx_hm> was just reading a random HN posting that was mentioning Kotlin and abandoning JS for Kotlin compiled to JS
14:30 < Synx_hm> not going to lie though i have no idea what those words mean
14:31 < Synx_hm> i mean i know JS but wtf is a language you 'compile to js'
14:33 < frsilent> well there's been a huge desire for it with web devs moving to mobile & companies looking to provide cross-platform solutions
14:33 < frsilent> so there's nativescript, then react native, & kotlin looks to do something like that
14:33 < Synx_hm> i hear there is a typescript as well
14:34 < Synx_hm> its completely confusing to me, i think thats why ive glommed on to Go its somewhat familiar to C ha
14:34 < frsilent> kotlin differentiates itself by being statically typed & strict
14:34 < Synx_hm> every time i turn around there is some new designer js framework, or language
14:34 < Synx_hm> ahh
14:34 < Synx_hm> so its a easier language to utilize and distills down into crossplatform JS anyways
14:34 < frsilent> if you've done any haskell (& I think rust/golang have similar paradigms) I think kotlin is more appealing
14:35 < frsilent> yeah but also enforces kind of type-based coding with very limited mutability
14:36 < frsilent> I've got mixed feelings; I see the appeal of those languages but also have used python & it's duck-typing monkey-patching wild-west features a ton
14:38 < Synx_hm> ha
14:38 < Synx_hm> i get entirely confused in a non statically typed language if i have to edit other peoples code
14:39 < Synx_hm> but i have limited dev experience anyways, so other things like objects confused the ever living piss out of me too
14:39 < Synx_hm> i get that i can define a dog that has fucking legs but why the fuck do i want to waste years of my life doing that when i can just write func fuckingwalkdude()
14:39 < Synx_hm> ;)
14:40 < Synx_hm> and memory management is so abstracted in these script languages that even the concepts of types becomes confusing for me to relate to my C experience
14:43 < Synx_hm> id just like to be able to read one programming headline on HN and actually understand it instead of 'hey check out this new docker jvm distiller react coffeescript that takes beans and converts them to node.js haiku widgets that you can run both in cloud and on xfinity uverse, as a bonus it runs slack and twillo under the hood and is full stack open stack ikea lackrack'
14:48 <@Corydon76> lol
14:50 <@Corydon76> My comment on that is that something like 90% of those new modules will be abandoned within the year.
14:51 <@Corydon76> Unless you're willing to take out the maintenance, you're probably best to stay away from anything which hasn't been out that long
14:51 <@Corydon76> s/take out/take on/
14:54 < Synx_hm> understood, what happened to angular.js did that get trumped by react? for clarify my only into to angular.js was through bootstrap(.js?) UI widgets, im told react is also frontend dev framework?
14:54 < Synx_hm> and what in the holy fuck is webpack and webasm
14:55 <@Corydon76> webasm, at least, is an optimization module for JS meant to allow you to run heavy graphics for games in the browser
14:56 < Synx_hm> ahh, so compiled code at the client level sort of thing, thinclient that is actually thick but just web delivered
14:58 <@Corydon76> My experience with it was basically as a Show'n'Tell at a JS users group meeting
14:59 < Synx_hm> rgr
15:00 < frsilent> lmao Synx_hm
15:00 <@Corydon76> I think I stopped going after one of those.  It's great getting free food; not so great when the user group has to resort to Show'n'Tell to have content for the evening
15:01 < Synx_hm> lol
15:01 < frsilent> I would say that my biggest issue with the growth of these framework ecosystems is that people have lost touch with memory
15:01 < frsilent> you say something like "info registers" or "double word" & people will look at you like there's a dick growing out of your forehead
15:02 < Synx_hm> there was this thing in the AF for junior officers call the company grade officers council, basically a way for people to get together and do random useless shit to brown nose with the leadership and get "cookies" for their performance reports
15:03 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: If it works, it works
15:03 < Synx_hm> the only way they could get junior officers who actually did a real job to show up was free beer, my squadron got wind of the free beer once and we showed up floated their keg and voted in a new president
15:04 < Synx_hm> needless to say our new president was in the wing commanders office within 24 hours as it royally upset the councils normal pleebs, poor dude had to actually be their president for all of a month before they voted him out
15:05 < Synx_hm> but ya having grown up significantly since then i realize they were just doing what they could to get noticed as they were not in the higher visibility jobs in a active flying community
15:06 < Synx_hm> frsilent, haha indeed, honestly i am really glad i had a strong base in ASM before moving to C as it really cemented pointers and types
15:06 <@Corydon76> Synx_hm: sounds like they needed a better governing document to ensure that the majority of their governing council could not be deposed in a single meeting
15:07 < Synx_hm> haha that was our thinking, we rolled in drank their beer and showed them a proper lesson in warfare
15:09 < Synx_hm> ok switching topics here; does anybody know anything about 'The Farthest' documentary, i find IMDb hits with no mention of PBS but also PBS hits implying its a tv series or ep
15:09 < Synx_hm> more specifically where can i watch it
15:09 < Synx_hm> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6223974/
15:09 < PigBot> Title: The Farthest (2017) - IMDb (at www.imdb.com) http://tinyurl.com/yd38rxnl
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15:21 < Synx_hm> it looks to be an amazing doc about voyager 1 and 2
15:32 < Synx_hm> oh shit found a supposed webrip on usenet
16:12 < K`Tetch> voyager 4 is when it went lazy, always being about jeri ryan
16:13 < K`Tetch> (and we all know about voyager6 almost destroying the earth)
16:21 <@Evilpig> oh shit! this is my final notice about my student loan forgiveness application deadline
16:22 <@Evilpig> these robocalls need to be dealt with
16:36 < K`Tetch> i always file a complaint witht he fcc
16:36 < K`Tetch> sometimes, if things work out right, you can get a payout from the company
16:39 <@Corydon76> Not sure how that works, since most of the CallerIDs are likely faked
16:52 < K`Tetch> they collate reports. Do their investigations, it can be sometimes, that you get damages. and if they'rea legit company operating illegally, you can get upto $5k iirc
16:52 < K`Tetch> its been a while since i looked at those laws
17:01 <@Evilpig> I've given up on reporting them.  I get at least one a day at this point
17:03 <@Corydon76> Is that all?
17:04 <@Corydon76> I hope I made the gal from the NRA call center cry today, though
17:05 <@Corydon76> "Do you support Donald Trump?"  "No."  "Well you should know that... <insert bullshit fundraising screed here>"
17:05 <@Corydon76> The call went downhill rapidly from there
17:07 <@Corydon76> Meanwhile, due to Trump's dick waving contest today, I'm looking for Prussian Blue powder.
17:19 < Synx_hm> at least the local area code + same exchange spoofing stopped since they nabbed that asshole in flordia
17:19 < Synx_hm> i was getting those even on my GV number every single day
17:21 < K`Tetch> i never get them, i think they go to spam
17:22 < K`Tetch> which is odd how few calls i get on my gv number, considering it's everywhere online
17:22 < K`Tetch> maybe because i use the letters (352-6-KTETCH)
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18:04 < Synx_hm> K`Tetch, they (gv) do an amazing job of filtering most of it
18:05 < Synx_hm> really the only problem i had was the local exchange ANI calls
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22:44 <@Dagmar> I've gotten a bogus 615 call twice in the last two days
22:44 <@Dagmar> ...from people who are at their wits' end apparently.
22:44 <@Dagmar> The very moment I say something weird they hang up
22:44 <@Dagmar> I need to make up some shit about a student loan
22:49 <@Catonic> What you need is ANI access from a VoIP provider
22:49 <@Catonic> that would so make life easier.
22:58 < cyberanger> Truecall works, and I used to do that by forwarding to an 800 number at flowroute (but the call would be answered on the local number) via an asterisk script
22:59 < cyberanger> Since it's spoofed and not blocked that may not work however (but I could get ANI info in CDR records)
--- Log closed Thu Aug 10 00:00:24 2017