--- Log opened Mon Jul 17 00:00:15 2017
00:23 < K`Tetch> ???
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05:33 < aestetix> well
05:33 < aestetix> I think I have a pretty good understanding of why lawyers and technologists will never mesh
05:34 < aestetix> I have a side thing I'm trying to do that involves both... and good fucking god the NGO lawyers are taking forever
05:34 < aestetix> apparently for lawyers having a week delay for something is just fine
05:34 < aestetix> For engineers, that's horrible
05:35 < aestetix> (there's also the fact that the lawyers don't even bother to try to learn basic tech)
06:38 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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10:51 < dc0de[m]> Mornin Dolemite
10:51 < dc0de[m]> And the rest of you jerks :p
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11:01 <@dasunt> Our PD decided that after shooting two dogs in their own yard last week (captured on video tape, complete with the tail wagging), they'd go for broke and shoot an unarmed 40 year old blond woman in her PJs that called 911 because she heard a suspicious noise.
11:02 <@opticron> really raising the bar over there
11:04 <@dasunt> It's pretty fucking amazing.
11:06 <@dasunt> Bodycams were off, of course.
11:09 <@dasunt> Already made the Australian news (our PD is no longer content shooting mere Americans, but appears to like to make international incidents by shooting foreigners).
11:21 < K`Tetch> i saw it on npr just now
11:55 <@Evilpig> I read that this morning on my news feed.  real wtf
12:04 < K`Tetch> maybe the cop was afraid she'd use a concealed donut to distract him. and you know, a cop that's afraid is one that's justified to kill
12:05 < K`Tetch> it sounds flippant, but seriously BOTH bodycams AND the cruisers dash cam were turned off
12:05 <@dasunt> Yet oddly, it is likely not considered evidence of wrongdoing.
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12:12 <@dasunt> Oh goodie, the cop's name:  Mohamed Noor.  I think I'll skip reading the comments.
12:15 <@dasunt> I'll admit though, I'm a little intrigued how a certain crowd will resolve their pro-cop attitude with their anti-Muslim immigrant attitude.
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13:00 < K`Tetch> I wrote my thoughts down on this years ago - https://falkvinge.net/2013/01/08/how-the-police-and-politicians-can-regain-the-public-trust/
13:00 < PigBot> Title: How the Police (and Politicians) Can Regain the Public Trust - Falkvinge on Liberty (at falkvinge.net) http://tinyurl.com/ybfoahtl
14:01 < aestetix> K`Tetch: I'm torn on this issue
14:01 < aestetix> Partly because my uncle is a cop, so I tend to have a different view
14:02 < aestetix> There are horrible things that do happen (look at Oakland), but they are by far the exception.
14:02 < aestetix> I'm pretty unhapppy with the mainstream media, which I believe has caused a lot of this issue.
14:03 < aestetix> Plus every personal experience I've had with cops has been positive.... such as when my car got stolen.
14:03 < aestetix> The only negative experiences I've had were when police shut down raves, but looking at that from a wider lense it's at lesat understandable.
14:07 < aestetix> It's funny. Whenever I've said I generally support police, I get accused of not living in a place with corrupt police, and then I respond by listing off all the horrible things Oakland police have done... that usually shuts them up
14:07 < aestetix> "yeah, has YOUR police department ever run a child prostitution ring?"
14:23 <@dasunt> I'm just amazed that nobody seems to have a problem that the police having both the squad car camera off and the bodycams off while responding to a 911 call.
14:23 < aestetix> That does seem odd
14:24 <@dasunt> I'd really like any reporter to call them out on this and clarify what the hell the department policy actually is when it comes to cameras.
14:24 < aestetix> dasunt: that is a completely appropriate response
14:58 < K`Tetch> aestetix - one of my wife's uncles was a cop, his eldest daughter is married to a sgt in the sherrifs dept here. Wife's other uncle was a state trooper. I know a bunch of other cops in and around here. I also worked with the police in the UK (training on accident investigation)
14:59 < K`Tetch> did you read my link? dasunt? "CHANGE – Any attempts by officials to prevent, halt or damage recordings without good reason (such as it actually impeding the arrest) to be charged with the relevant evidence tampering or investigation impeding laws. All officer camera footage (be it mounted in a room, on the officer or a piece of equipment) is to be considered an open record for the purpose of all relevant laws, while still being mindful of data protection 
15:00 < K`Tetch> 4.5 years ago I wrote that
15:20 < aestetix> K`Tetch: then again I have basically cut off contact with people in the Bay Area because they have gone insane
15:20 < aestetix> According to them, every police officer is deeply racist and exists solely to kill unarmed black people
15:21 <@Corydon76> I'm sure you can find people in Berlin who believe the same thing.
15:21 < aestetix> Corydon76: yes, the Americans who have moved here tend to also be nuts
15:22 < aestetix> There's also a generation split between people who were alive when the Wall was up and those born after
15:22 <@Corydon76> Speaking of nuts, when's the last time you filed with the IRS?
15:22 < aestetix> Corydon76: I filed 2015 with them because I had income in the US
15:22 < aestetix> After that, never again.
15:23 <@Corydon76> You know as a US citizen, you're required to file income tax, even if you don't have income in the US, right?
15:23 < aestetix> And I also know that if I don't pay tax, they can't do anything to me
15:23 <@Corydon76> Well, not until you travel to the US, anyway
15:23 < aestetix> Right.
15:24 <@Corydon76> But isn't it equally nuts for you to fail to file income taxes?
15:25 <@Corydon76> Especially if, say, in 20 years, you plan to travel to the US to give a talk at a conference
15:25 < aestetix> You mean isn't it fucked up that the US is the only developed country in the world that forces people who don't live there to pay income taxes?
15:25 < aestetix> Corydon76: I won't have an issue there because the IRS is not connected to the State Department
15:25 < aestetix> Like if I had a job in the US, they could garnish wages, etc
15:26 < aestetix> They can't do that for Germany though
15:26 <@Corydon76> aestetix: nor is the Treasury Department connected to Education, but if you have federal student loans, they'll still claw back an IRS refund
15:27 <@Corydon76> You don't think Treasury puts out a watchlist that State sees?
15:28 < aestetix> Also if you haven't noticed, the trend is for conferences to leave the US now because of all the immigration/visa bullshit going on
15:28 <@Corydon76> Which is why I put it out at 20 years
15:28 <@Corydon76> After 4, Trump will be gone
15:28 < aestetix> And replaced with who? All the competition sucks
15:29 <@Corydon76> President Feinstein, your old buddy, of course
15:29 < aestetix> Assuming she doesn't choke on ensure and die
15:30 < aestetix> And I'm not a millionaire. Usually the US only pulls crazy tricks to get someone who either 1. has lots of money 2. has done something else
15:30 <@Corydon76> You realize that Diane Feinstein was a city supervisor in San Francisco, concurrent with Harvey Milk?
15:30 < aestetix> As long as I don't join a terrorist group or something, I suspect I'll be fine
15:31 < aestetix> so?
15:32 <@Corydon76> Yeah, as long as you stay away from publishing diatribes about the US government, you'll be fine.  Oh, wait...
15:33 < aestetix> They don't usually care about that. What they care about is if the funding to create such a diatribe came from Russia or something
15:34 < aestetix> You do realize how completely disconnected and broken the US is on the federal level, right?
15:34 < aestetix> Anyways, it's a moot point for me: I don't care
15:35 <@Corydon76> BTW, there's an interesting documentary that just went on Netflix, called American Anarchist.
15:36 <@Corydon76> About William Powell
15:36 <@Corydon76> Basically, at 19, he published The Anarchist's Cookbook, and then the book followed him around his entire life, ruining possible teaching positions for him
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17:44 < TheDukh> https://www.humblebundle.com/books/cybersecurity-wiley
17:44 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: Unknown host.. http://tinyurl.com/ybhjm3vo
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17:55 < xray> Thanks for the heads up
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19:50 < dc0de[m]> aestetix: I paid income tax in the yk when I lived there, taken right out of my pay.
19:51 < dc0de[m]> Yk
19:51 < dc0de[m]> Uk
19:51 < dc0de[m]> 25% flat income tax
19:52 < dc0de[m]> And, had to pay us taxes on every dollar over 70k earned overseas, back to the ys.
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21:22 < aestetix> dc0de[m]: that's odd, the UK must have a special deal with the US
21:56 <@Dagmar> I think stuff like that is where you'd be a fool to not hang onto reciepts for everything up to and including bubblegum
22:31 < dc0de[m]> It was the same is you were a us civilian in Germany as well.
22:31 < dc0de[m]> Begging paid by a German company
22:38 < aestetix> I guess I'll find out.
22:38  * aestetix shrugs
22:38 < aestetix> Let's just say I will make no effort on my part to ensure the US gets a dime from me.
22:39 < oddball> I think that's what they arrested Wesley Snipes for.
22:39 < aestetix> I imagine he makes a considerable amount more money than I do
22:39 < oddball> Well, yes, but he did some jail time for it, if I'm not mistaken.
22:40 <@Dagmar> Snipes went a bit further than that
22:40 <@Dagmar> He went straight into crazy-man territory claiming the IRS had no authority to collect taxes at all
22:58 < aestetix> I suspect the IRS has more problems to think about than me.
22:59 < aestetix> For example, people like Donald Trump :)
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23:17 < oddball> See... you say that... but they decided to audit my mom multiple times basically because she had the audacity to let her parents die on her.
23:41 < K`Tetch_> i do miss the simplicity of the uk tax system
23:41 < K`Tetch_> not even sure if i paid back all my student loans...
23:41 < K`Tetch_> *meh* no biggie, if i didn't, I'm only a few hundred owing
23:43 < aestetix> you had student loans in the UK?
23:44 < K`Tetch_> i was the first year
23:44 < aestetix> due to top up fees?
23:44 < K`Tetch_> 98 was the first year of loans, and it was half loan, half grant, then loans the rest of the time
23:44 < aestetix> ok no
23:44 < K`Tetch_> i i'd gone a year eaerly, it'd have been grants all the way through
23:45 < K`Tetch_> but also98 was the first year with fees (whichfor me was ~£200
23:45 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: why do you think UK universities have suddenly gone into the free market a bit?
23:45 < aestetix> It seems that it will lead nowhere good
23:46 < K`Tetch_> my total loans were about £5k, which were inflation indexed
23:46 < K`Tetch_> oh, thats the tory party
23:46 < aestetix> By suddenly I mean in the last 15 years
23:46 < K`Tetch_> well, and 'new labour' (which is the same center-right as the democrats)
23:47 < aestetix> I mean I am a capitalist, but I recognize that certain things, such as education and health care, more exist to serve a common good
23:47 < K`Tetch_> john smith was left, tony blair as center-right, brown was center-center right, miliband was centrist, and corbyn is left
23:48 < K`Tetch_> (thats the labour party leaders since ~92
23:48 < K`Tetch_> uk universities are very centralised in their admin/entry/financial payment
23:49 < K`Tetch_> you apply to universities through a single central system called UCAS
23:50 < K`Tetch_> after A-level results day, all univiersities publish open places in the Times 9or whatever newspaper it is now) and you apply individually through 'clearing' to start next month
23:50 < aestetix> so it's like the Profung in germany
23:50 < K`Tetch_> I.. don't know
23:50 < K`Tetch_> I'm not really thinking straight atm
23:51 < K`Tetch_> I spent all evening writing my net neutrality comment. started at 4:30pm, submitted 9000 words at 11pm
23:51 < aestetix> die Profung in germany is a huge test everyone takes at the end of their studies that determines where they go to college, if they go
23:52 < K`Tetch_> not really then. in the UK, there's GCSES (which were hte school leaver qualifications, you take that in every subject and get a grade in every subjct)
23:52 < K`Tetch_> based on that you can go to 6th form (academic based, usually at high schools, for 2 years) or you can go to a communty college for a vocational qualification
23:53 < K`Tetch_> you get graded in those, at 6th forms they're A-levels, at community colleges, they can be a-levels or they can be GNVQ's, and gain each are graded
23:53 < K`Tetch_> those grades are each worth points
23:54 < K`Tetch_> so, for instance, the masters in cybernetics at Reading uni wanted BBB at a-level, with at least maths and physics
23:55 < K`Tetch_> I took Maths, further maths, physics, chamistry, and general studies with italian (general studies is like the 'core classes', and includes a language you didn't do at GCSE, for me it was art appreciation, italian, and music)
23:56 < K`Tetch_> but I also took the advanced classes and exams in maths, physics and chem (which they now no longer offer) which are equivilent to an assosciates degree
23:58 < K`Tetch_> but after meeting Captain Cyborg (prof Kevin Warwick) at Reading, I decided not to go there, which was a shame, as I'd put that as my first option, university of liverpool was my second, but they deicded to stop offering the degree program I chose, so I had to go through clearing at the urging of a friends mother, and got a different program there. worked out
23:59 < K`Tetch_> another school friend took a law degree through clearing, he's now a senior lawyer at UEFA, basically organises the legal side of the Champions Cup
--- Log closed Tue Jul 18 00:00:16 2017