--- Log opened Thu Jun 22 00:00:12 2017
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06:15 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:16 <@Dolemite> dc0de[m]: I have a company for sideline work...  most of which is websession based training, so at least I'm getting something out of it at this point.  Donations haven't really worked well - people say they'll donate, but that button is just so damn hard to click, you know.
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10:44 < dc0de[m]> Dolemite (IRC) , I know, I think the donation button is broken.
10:47 <@Dolemite> And there are some absolute idiots asking for help on the mailing list
10:48 <@Dolemite> From megacorps
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14:42  * dasunt tells himself it's just a job, so he shouldn't be concerned about things.
14:46 <@dasunt> jebus though.
14:51 <@dasunt> double jebus.
14:52 <@dasunt> I may be holy by the end of this.
15:35 <@Dagmar> If someone could drop another $30m sell order into GDAX, that would be really cool thxbai
15:46 < dc0de[m]> dasunt (IRC) i feel ya, just remember that it's business, and it's not your business, thankfully!
15:53 <@dasunt> dc0de[m]: That's what I keep telling myself, but damnit, my sense of good, clean procedures keeps popping up and trying to complain.
15:56 <@Corydon76> I had to help a junior programmer today understand why an ecommerce site *wouldn't* include all information possible to show to the customer.
15:58 <@Corydon76> It's helpful to understand the sales rules, even if they are antithetical to the idea that we're providing information.
16:00 <@Corydon76> Everybody in the parts business uses the OEM as a secondary warehouse, and if you don't have a part, chances are nobody else does, either.  Does the sale go to the guy who is honest about it not being in stock, or the guy who says everything is available for purchase?
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16:04 <@dasunt> LOL, capitalism.
16:05 <@Dagmar> I don't buy from people who make a habit of playing "let'
16:05 <@Dagmar> s pretend" with inventory availability
16:07  * dasunt likes.
16:07 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: I suspect you do, even if you don't know that you do.
16:08 <@Corydon76> Ever shop at booksamillion.com ?
16:08 <@Dagmar> Nope
16:08 <@Dagmar> Pedantry will not succeed
16:09 <@Corydon76> I can speak about their practices, because I used to work there
16:09 <@dasunt> Speaking of "games people play
16:09 <@Dagmar> If I order something from somewhere online, and they don't have some shipping numbers for me within 24 hours, I cancel the damn order
16:09 <@dasunt> Speaking of "games people play", I've noticed that some Chinese sellers on Amazon are offering next day shipping.
16:09 <@Corydon76> If something said, "Usually ships in 2-3 days", that meant it was at Ingram Books, in Smyrna, not Booksamillion, in Florence.
16:09 <@dasunt> The shipping charge is insane, but I suspect they do it because people are using the next day option to filter out distant sellers.
16:10 <@Dagmar> Cross shipping is fine.  Drop shipping is fine.
16:10 <@Dagmar> LYING about things which are simply out of stock entirely is another matter
16:10 <@Corydon76> dasunt: that's not reliable, given that customs can hold up shipments for weeks
16:12 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: <shrugs>  Not my policy.  I just have to implement it.
16:12 <@Corydon76> But it *is* a race to the bottom.
16:12 <@Dagmar> Not my problem
16:13 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Perhaps they just take the hit to rating, or offer a refund if someone chooses the next day shipping option.
16:13 <@Corydon76> Most consumers would rather tolerate a delay than to go through the hassle of canceling and finding it for sale from another supplier
16:13 <@Corydon76> Salespeople know this.
16:13 <@Dagmar> I'm not buying stuff one can trivially order more from the warehouse
16:14 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: that's the parts business, generally
16:14 <@Dagmar> Not with the people I deal with
16:15 <@Corydon76> When I'm talking about parts, I'm talking about mechanical equipment, not computers
16:16 <@Dagmar> I used to order stuff for my bike from online all the time
16:16 <@Dagmar> My statement remains
16:16 <@Dagmar> If it appears a vendor was lying about having something in stock, I cancel the order
16:16 <@Corydon76> Dagmar: direct from the OEM or from a regional warehouse?
16:17 <@Dagmar> ...and it's pretty easy to determine if they're taking the "well, we can get that from the manufacturer" approach
16:17 <@Dagmar> ...because they'll have a suspiciously feature-replete list of things
16:17 <@Dagmar> ...and absolutely none of it will say it's out of stock
16:18 <@Dagmar> This is one of the reasons I ship via Fed-Ex or UPS
16:18 <@Corydon76> That's also risky in the parts business, because something you haven't had in 3 years may have a higher price when you try to order it again
16:19 <@Dagmar> Guess what... it's fucking not even a little bit useful to me if I order it and I can't get it
16:20 <@Dagmar> If a shop is willing to lie about parts availability, they're almost certainly willing to lie about other things
16:20 <@Dagmar> ...like the quality of the product
16:20 <@Dagmar> ...like whether or not they honor a warranty
16:20 <@Dagmar> ...like the provenance of their inventory.
16:20 <@Dagmar> ...like whether they adhere to PCI standards.
16:20 <@Dagmar> They are not a people I am willing to do buisness with online.
16:21 <@Corydon76> I'm not sure why you're concerned about PCI compliance as a consumer.  All of the wrath is incurred at the business level for noncompliance
16:22 <@Dagmar> Because I don't want to have to change my card number again because of incompetence
16:22 <@Corydon76> And the wrath generally means NOT getting paid and NOT being able to take that type of credit card anymore
16:22 <@Dagmar> I have MY wrath to worry about
16:22 <@Dagmar> I don't give one single shit if the business goes bankrupt as a result
16:23 <@Corydon76> Eh, as Target and Home Depot have shown, that's inevitable
16:23 <@Dagmar> What I care about is getting a notification from my bank, or worse, not getting any notification and seeing a bunch of unauthorized transactions that I have to call the bank
16:23 <@Dagmar> No, Target and Home Depot were both doing stupid shit
16:23 <@Dagmar> They got burned, and they deserved to get burned
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22:36 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: This conversation reminds me of my quest to order a specific thing a few months back. CDW is the only site that claims to have it, and I bugged them for a month until I got it. Turns out, it drop shipped straight from the manufacturer, and had an RMA number. Shady as fuck.
22:37 < _NSAKEY> Now they've started sending me meaning-free magazines, and all I could think when I saw the first one was, "VENDOR STATUS ACHIEVED."
22:37 <@Dagmar> heh
22:38 < _NSAKEY> In that situation, I was ready to cancel, but it's one of those hipster-level things that I wasn't going to get any other way, unless I got lucky and someone ebayed it.
22:38 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY: Did you see the mayhem from someone's overzealous clicking on GDAX this week?
22:38 < _NSAKEY> No, but I saw you guys bitching about the pricing stability, and then caught a headline on HN about *coin market manipulation.
22:39 < _NSAKEY> I'm about to head out the door. What's the tl;dr?
22:39 <@Dagmar> Someone _clearly_ fucked up and attempted to see many millions' worth of ETH at once
22:39 <@Dagmar> Like, so many it actually wiped out the order book
22:39 <@Dagmar> Meaning the resulting buy orders that were left were in the $210-range (dropped from $330)
22:40 <@Dagmar> This would have been not such a HUGE deal except apparently a shitton of people had STOP LOSS orders in that triggered because the price had fallen so low...
22:40 < _NSAKEY> Hahahahaha.
22:40 < _NSAKEY> So in a word, chaos.
22:40 <@Dagmar> ...so _those_ got put up for sale at _market_ rates, meaning whatever the highest current buy price was.
22:40 <@Dagmar> This cascaded all the way down to TEN FUCKING CENTS PER
22:40 <@Dagmar> So some lucky bastard actually got ~7500 ETH for TEN CENTS EACH
22:41 < _NSAKEY> Nice.
22:41 < _NSAKEY> How long did it take for the market correction to happen?
22:41 <@Dagmar> You can bet your ass I have $75 sitting at the twenty-five cent mark of both ETH and LTC now
22:42 <@Dagmar> As expected, arbitrage took over and had things back up to within $5 of every other exchanges price in about a half hour... after GDAX/Coinbase turned ETH trading back on, because they almost immediately disabled it after that massive drop
22:42 < _NSAKEY> That would have been nice to jump in on if I knew about it.
22:42 <@Dagmar> Plus, they're using MongoDB still
22:43 <@Dagmar> I thought it was just funny that people freaked out over it
22:43 <@Dagmar> ...until someone showed me the buy for ~7500 ETH at ten cents
22:43 <@Dagmar> Now I think it's HILARIOUS
22:43 <@Dagmar> WWhoever had that in is grinning from ear to ear right now
22:43 <@Dagmar> They just made about two million dollars.
22:44 <@Dagmar> The number of people who thought it was a good idea to leave stop orders like that... Just wow
22:44 < _NSAKEY> Yup. They just have to figure out if they want to hold, or sell off slowly enough to not affect the price, but not before the cryptocurrency bubble pops.
22:44 <@Dagmar> Theres' no bubble
22:44 <@Dagmar> Or rather, either there's no bubble, or it's _all_ bubble
22:45 <@Dagmar> At minimum, these currencies should value up at the same rate as inflation
22:45 <@Dagmar> ...but since there's a fixed number of them, increased demand will always make the price go up
22:46 < _NSAKEY> Even if there's no bubble, there's still see-sawing values. The GDAX thing aside, look at how bitcoin's been volatile in the past.
22:46 <@Dagmar> That's fine.
22:46 <@Dagmar> I'm totally fine with volatility
22:46 < _NSAKEY> But I'd say that guy who bought 7500 ETH at 10 cents apiece is going to be fine no matter what.
22:46 <@Dagmar> Oh yeah
22:47 <@Dagmar> I would have to get stinking drunk just to cope with that
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 23 00:00:14 2017