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06:26 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:37  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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07:58 <@Catonic> moaning
07:58 < xray> LoL
07:59 < xray> not enough coffee yet?
08:01 <@Catonic> I truly forgot how bad open source developers can be
08:01 <@Catonic> no, coffee-free day so far. got a 6:45 wake up call "uh, stuff's broken and I don't know what to do."
08:01 < xray> any idiot can write code and they often do
08:02 <@Catonic> These guys marked a new major and changed a config variable name just because
08:06 <@Catonic> naturally, the change is documented only in the INSTALL document for the config file, not the program itself.
08:10 < xray> Of course. It's because that is the least obvious place to look
08:11 < xray> Airplane - That's just what They'll be expecting Us to do
08:11 < xray> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0X0ZYbnHxA
08:11 < PigBot> Title: Airplane - Thats just what Theyll be expecting Us to do - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/l8clrop
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08:28 <@Catonic> that's the sort of thing I think where you call them on thier BS when the Germans are involved
08:29 <@Catonic> "It doesn't work!" "Did you try reading the documentation?" "No, LOL, why would the answer be there?"
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08:32 <@Catonic> aparently the config parser just ignores things it knows nothing about. That would be the perfect place to search for the new var and the old var, using the old var if the new isn't present and printing an error message or going fatal
08:34 <@Catonic> "Why would you not use the new version of the config file?" "Because my fee-feeatures."
08:36 <@Catonic> It still amazes me that people trust scripts on public websites. In 1995 that would have been cause for termination and a security breach of the highest level
08:40 <@Catonic> frak. when you get halfway to building a meme and *poof* the thought vanishes
08:50 < _NSAKEY> Catonic: So you must love these projects that recommending curling a script and piping it straight into an interpreter.
08:51 < _NSAKEY> Something like "curl https://example.com/shady-script.sh | bash"
08:51 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 404: Not Found. http://tinyurl.com/ya6wh8qs
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09:02 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: to be fair, most people just download a script and run it without checking anyways
09:04 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Also true, but it's just a case of humanity finding a way to limbo even lower than before.
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09:16 <@Catonic> _NSAKEY: yeah
09:17 <@Catonic> like I said, in 1995, you'd have been flogged for it. Now it's part of the install docs.
09:17 <@Catonic> It's only where you see the word "compliance" that you know they actually tested something ... maybe.
09:20 <@Corydon76> Catonic: I see your contention about 1995, but I'm of the mind that you've got some rose-tinted lenses of yesteryear
09:20 <@Corydon76> For God's sake, 1995 was the year of Windows 95, where if you hit the OS with a packet with the TCP OOB bit set, the OS would blue-screen.
09:21 <@Corydon76> That is not a year the world was vastly concerned about security practices.
09:29 < _NSAKEY> That was also a time when vulns like this roamed the earth: https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-1999-1588/
09:29 < PigBot> Title: CVE-1999-1588 : Buffer overflow in nlps_server in Sun Solaris x86 2.4, 2.5, and 2.5.1 allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code (at www.cvedetails.com) http://tinyurl.com/yd4cybe8
09:45 <@dasunt> So we're shooting congress critters now?
10:04 < aestetix> oh jesus
10:04 < aestetix> another united airlines video
10:06 < aestetix> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4603318/United-worker-pushes-grandfather-71-ground.html
10:06 < PigBot> Title: United Airlines worker pushes grandfather to the ground | Daily Mail Online (at www.dailymail.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/yctswpr6
10:10 <@dasunt> So I wonder what the shooter's motive is.  Press IDs him as a 66 year old white guy, former home inspector.
10:11 < aestetix> Hmm.
10:11 < aestetix> Possibly related to the GOP trying to fuck with his health care?
10:12 <@dasunt> Dunno.  We're at the "high chance of bullshit being repeated" point of the shooting news cycle.
10:13 <@dasunt> Liberal Bernie supporter, according to people who looked at his Facebook.
10:13 <@Corydon76> Still, the current rate of one national legislator being shot every 6 years isn't really all that bad
10:14 <@dasunt> Well, it's horrible if you consider marksman skills.
10:14 <@Corydon76> Rand Paul says he thinks the gunman shot 60 or 70 rounds
10:15 <@Corydon76> And he got one guy in the hip.
10:15 <@dasunt> I think a few other people got hit too, but they weren't representatives.
10:16 <@Corydon76> Right, two Capitol Police officers
10:18 <@Corydon76> I can't wait for the gun control groups to start spouting off nonsense and for Scalise to say, on national TV, that he doesn't think gun control is warranted.
10:19 <@Corydon76> I may go up at lunch and put an NRA sticker on my car.
10:22 <@dasunt> Maybe we'll see more action now that certain people realize that the left wing has its own violent nuts.
10:22 < aestetix> I have a dream that people will realize that the issue is not left or right but extreme on either side.
10:23 < aestetix> But I suspect that will stay a dream.
10:24 < aestetix> How are Bernie supporters responding to this?
10:24 <@Corydon76> dasunt: if such action means better Medicaid coverage for mental health, I'm all for it
10:25 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Foaming at the mouth, as usual, I suspect
10:25 < aestetix> heh
10:29 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Considering that we won't get meaningful gun control (at least not until a few congress critters are actually killed by gun toting madmen (not advocating that, btw)), I'm totally for using these incidents to push for universal healthcare coverage for mental health.
10:36 < aestetix> oh wow
10:36 < aestetix> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
10:36 < PigBot> Title: Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) | Twitter (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/cas2xvq
10:36 < aestetix> there's a little animation on that
10:36 < aestetix> it's fucking hilarious
10:37 <@opticron> buy why balloons?
10:37 < aestetix> apparently today is trump's birthday
10:37 < aestetix> it just seems wrong for so many reasons
10:37 <@dasunt> LOL.
10:38 < aestetix> not the least of which is that I went there to see what stupid shit he would say about the shooting
10:38 < aestetix> so I was reading his tweet about the shooting and fucking balloons started flying by
10:41 <@dasunt> Oh wow, the alleged shooter's FB page is getting spammed hard.
10:44 < aestetix> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14551313
10:44 < PigBot> Title: Escape from systemd | Hacker News (at news.ycombinator.com) http://tinyurl.com/ycwnpy6s
11:02 <@dasunt> So what was the failings of the Init system again, and why couldn't it be fixed?
11:03 <@Catonic> 50 - 100 rds... yeah, ten officers, five rounds each... one gunman probably with a 20-30 rd mag
11:04 <@Catonic> but some of the federales are known to carry three mags, one loaded in the firearm, all double-stacks
11:04 <@Catonic> 54 - 57 rds is heavy.
11:05 < dc0de[m]> Ha, I only ever carry 30rnds of .45cal when I carry. 3x10rnd single stack.
11:19 <@Catonic> well, 15 rd mags, three mags, you're talking 45. There are mags out there from manufacturers that carry more than that and usually ~10 mm.
11:20 <@Catonic> otoh, that comes down to shooter technique... 9 mm, people go into a brace. .45 ACP, people bring the 1911 down onto target. Obvs, to compensate for bullet drop you're on target faster in a downward direction since you arrest the motion early.
11:21 <@Catonic> dasunt: was the shooter a dem or just a whackjob?
11:21 < oddball> Catonic: Yes, yes he was.
11:22 < oddball> (both a dem and a whackjob)
11:22 <@Catonic> aestetix: the new kids on the block are constantly "this old system is crap, I'm not touching it, I'm using this new system I wrote because it's the dog's bollocks"
11:22 <@dasunt> Catonic: Both. Although I've seen claims he voted for Trump since he was in a #neverhillary camp.
11:23 <@Catonic> millenials suffer from the same bigs of ego and not invented here as the generations before them. The difference is the generations before had the time to think it all through and were closer to the hardware.
11:23 < oddball> dasunt: Yeah... no.  he worked on the Bernie campaign.
11:24 <@dasunt> We are pretty lucky that these shooters don't actually take some time to brush up on their skills and figure out some tactics.
11:24 <@dasunt> oddball: Some Bernie supporters backed Trump.
11:24 <@Catonic> I am loathe to disparage democrats as a whole, but it's my observation that democrats are more comfortable with the use of authoritarian force to implement policy, whereas the republicans favor individual force on the spot
11:25 <@Catonic> The best thing to come out of Obamacare + Trump is that traditionally republican sectors (retirees) got a taste of Obamacare and coverage, and are complaining about having to go back to work to pay for healthcare
11:25 <@Catonic> I give it a decade and we're looking at universal coverage for "dope" after age 60.
11:25 <@dasunt> Catonic: I would disagree.  I think both sides like authoritarian force to implement policy, but they just disagree on what policy that force will be used for.
11:26 <@Catonic> I agree with that, too.
11:26 <@Corydon76> dasunt: to the question on init vs systemd, the problem with init is that it suffers from single-threadedness to a large degree
11:27 <@Corydon76> i.e. there is no provision to "background" a task which may take a long time to sort itself out, which holds up the entire boot process
11:27 <@Catonic> if you're in a single core VM, init is no better than systemd, but if you're on 16-core bare metal, make -j12 start makes sense
11:27 < oddball> dasunt: Apparently he also belonged to several "destroy republicans" type groups and had several "Trump is a traitor" type facebook posts.
11:28 <@Corydon76> That doesn't mean I necessarily agree with the actions of those implementing systemd, just that I'm pointing out that there's an element of the old init system that cannot be easily fixed without entirely breaking the paradigm
11:28 <@Catonic> you still have dependency/execution order resolution to deal with. You can't mount the disks if you're fsck'ing them, unless you're using background fsck
11:30 <@Catonic> the amazing thing is the level of myopia and narcissism in politics.
11:31 <@Catonic> I think at this point, we need to push for laws applied by the scientific method.
11:32 <@Corydon76> Catonic:  that would work, if we could keep to the entire scientific method, which includes reproducibility of results
11:33 <@Catonic> But the problem with that is that people who oppose said laws will push for premature sunset, i.e.: next week everyone can buy Schedule I drugs, but the week after that they can't, and "Class 3" hardware is mandatory issued for the month of May in 2020 but have to be turned in by August or your house will be nuked from orbit for the safety of your next-door neighbors.
11:33 <@Catonic> Corydon76: amen
11:33 <@Corydon76> Too often, though, a single experiment is run, and long term decisions are made on the results, without considering that the results could simply be a fluke
11:33 < aestetix> Corydon76: and the ability to present an initial hypothesis to test without getting destroyed in the media
11:34 < oddball> Right now, I'd just like politicians to think "what if someone I hated had this power?" before given themselves more power.
11:34 <@Catonic> Yeah, use of force incidents are good examples. They have to be studied logically without emotion, but laws involving the use of force in various ways are invariably shaped by emotional responses from a variety of contributors.
11:34 <@dasunt> Scientific method is amoral though.
11:35 < oddball> Catonic: All laws result in the use of force.
11:35 <@Catonic> But the whole justice system is tainted by apathetic corruption, I forgot the rest of my thought.
11:36 <@Catonic> oddball: that's why my favorite refrain is "unintented consequence!"
11:36 < aestetix> Catonic: I don't think that's limited to the law
11:36 <@dasunt> E.g. gassing everyone would reduce crime rates.
11:36 <@Catonic> in writing specific legislation, we had to think of all the possible ways things could go wrong, and inevitably got schooled by people co-opting the legislation and putting their own spin on things.
11:37 <@Corydon76> oddball: all laws result in the potential for the use of force.  Use of force generally requires conflict with the law, first.
11:37 <@dasunt> Government tends to try to enforce a monopoly on the use of force.
11:37 <@Corydon76> i.e. if nobody sped on the roadway, then there would be no force applied to stop speeders
11:37 <@Catonic> the result is that we wrote something with sane and logical syntax which could be diagrammed by a sixth grader. when the legislators and lobbyists got done with it, there were sentances that would require several cases to properly dissect the grammar.
11:38 <@Catonic> That's a good example of how law enforcement fails at it's mission
11:38 <@Catonic> Law enforcement -- as a plain reading -- would be and often is tasked with the enforcement of all laws if any are broken in the presence of the officer
11:39 <@Corydon76> Catonic: the problem with the way that law is written is due to defense lawyers using verbal trickery to get their clients off
11:39 < oddball> Catonic: oh, any law that a layman can actually read will have goverment types twisting words to do what they want to do.
11:39 <@Catonic> in practice, it tends to cluster into specific acts of violence which have a propensity for a large emotional reaction, and those crimes which involve large amounts of money
11:40 <@Corydon76> The whole point of laws that mention every conceivable construction is to ensure that defense lawyers have to do a much better job
11:40 < oddball> Example: the TN guns in local parks law.  It states that a city can't ban guns in parks or other "recreational areas" unless there's a school event going on.
11:40 <@Catonic> oddball: it's an issue in Alabama. By law, all the laws in the penal code are supposed to be easy to read and understand because they have severe punishments. Those which are not are "void for vagueness" or unconstitutionally vague.
11:41 < oddball> Nashville officially decided that they could still ban guns in parks when a concert was going on, because a concert "wasn't a recreational activity."
11:41 < oddball> And our state AG decided that a school having a storage shed on park grounds constituted a "school activity," even if there was no one present.
11:41 <@Catonic> Sounds like the NRA was involved in that one. We had a politician who pushed to have guns excluded from recreational events at schools after a permitted person's gun was found in a backpack without the person around.
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11:42 <@Catonic> the politician was a LEO... and almost got himself removed from office. Then he joined the coalition to push a bill and magically, his previous bill got joined to the bill going through.
11:43 <@Catonic> that's another problem. sometimes the AG gets it wrong in the opinion. Usually, they try to write an opinion that represents the interests of the person asking the question.
11:43 <@oddball> That wasn't actually an NRA idea.  It was put in to keep it in line with the current state law banning weapons on school grounds, and people were screaming about the idea of a parent having a gun at little timmy's football game.
11:44 < aestetix> Is there news on whether the guy legally owned the gun or not?
11:44 <@Corydon76> Catonic: the AG in Tennessee usually does a good job of sorting out the issues according to the law
11:44 <@Catonic> GFSZA just says you have to follow your state's permitting or licensing process if you're going to be armed within 1000 ft of a school.
11:44 <@oddball> aestetix: If it was in DC, he was not legally carrying, since he was from out of town.
11:44 <@Catonic> aestetix: my case or his?
11:44 <@oddball> Corydon76: Yeah, well, he fucked up big time on that one.
11:44 < aestetix> oddball: that wasn't my question
11:45 < aestetix> My question is whether he legally purchased it
11:45 <@oddball> As for legally owwning? I haven't seen anything stating that he was a prohibited person.
11:45 <@oddball> All accounts was that he was "politically opinionated," but not crazy before hand.
11:46 <@Corydon76> oddball: I don't know.  I'd have to read his legal reasoning on it.  Sometimes what the legislature turns out can be flatly unconstitutional
11:46 <@Corydon76> Or otherwise self-contradictory
11:46 <@oddball> Then just trust me, since it's something that I follow *very* closely.
11:46 <@Catonic> There's the 9th amendment, or some such wherein all people are supposed to have the same rights, etc from state to state... then there's the interstate criminal compact wherein all crimes are supposed to be equal and equally punished...
11:47 <@Catonic> but that fails going from CA to NH or AL, just the same as some of the criminal statues regarding velocity above asphalt.
11:47 < aestetix> oddball: have the gun law activists started up yet?
11:47 <@oddball> aestetix: As for the legal purchase, he was from Illinois, which does require a license to own.  I don't know whether he had a license or not.
11:48 <@Catonic> AL doesn't have excessive speeding, but TN does. Conversely, reckless driving is arrestable in Alabama but is not in TN.
11:48 <@oddball> aestetix: There's a lot of talk about the event, but I haven't seen anyone using it as an exxcuse for [pet cause] yet.
11:48 <@Catonic> aestetix: they never stopped, but the problem is that they assumed that Trump & Co. would actively push thier agenda, so they haven't actively pushed thier agenda
11:49 < aestetix> oddball: got it
11:49 < aestetix> Yeah I suspect this event is going to create a *lot* of confusion
11:49 <@Catonic> which is why we still have $200 tax stamps for silencers, while the Swiss don't but acknowledge that it's the right thing to do to protect your hearing and the considerate thing to do so you don't disturb your neighbors too much.
11:49 < aestetix> What will make it even nuttier is if the guy had a history of supporting strong gun laws
11:49 <@oddball> Catonic: There's been a good bit of grumbling over the past couple months that Trump and Co haven't actually done anything as far as pro-gun rights go.
11:50 <@Catonic> These days, between the meds for various conditions and the echobox, anyone is liable to go off for any reason, political affiliation nonwithstanding.
11:50 <@oddball> aestetix: Wading through his facebook posts, etc, I'd say it's highly possible that he was for more gun laws.
11:51 < aestetix> oh man
11:51 <@dasunt> Catonic: Well, technically the federal amendments weren't interpreted at apply to the states until something like the late 1800s, IIRC.
11:51 <@oddball> By the way, a few of the headlining shooters over the past few years have, in fact, campaigned for stricter gun laws.
11:51 < aestetix> oddball: oh wow. if that's the case, that's going to break people
11:52 <@Catonic> I'm willing to bet this most recent shooting will come down to Republicans against guns (because somehow someone got one and shot at them), and unleash the next round of the 1033 program, further militarizing the police so that legislators can enjoy baseball in the presence of heavily armed knights -- I mean, law enforcement officers.
11:52 <@Catonic> a lot of people suffer under the delusion that you have to pass a law to allow a given thing, not realizing that freedom and liberty turn law into a necessary double-negative.
11:53 < aestetix> Catonic: yeah, that upsets me a lot
11:53 <@Catonic> or... they are unclear, and unwilling to pay a lawyer to get a determination, they want a legislator to "spell it out" for them.
11:53 < aestetix> People don't realize that it gives the government a lot of power
11:53 <@oddball> dasunt: dasunt Yeah, that happened with the 14th amendment after the Civil War.
11:53 <@Catonic> You can only pass a law to allow a given thing if you have already passed a law making it unlawful to perform a given act.
11:54 <@Corydon76> oddball: I'm also curious whether the attorney general wrote the opinion as an expression of the law or as an expression as an attorney.  Attorneys tend to be more conservative in their interpretations.  Instead of hedging bets, they tend to recommend that you don't do things that _could_ result in your prosecution and conviction
11:54 <@oddball> aestetix: Nah, if this guy was anti-gun, nobody will notice.  They didn't really care the last couple times mass shooters were anti-gun.
11:54 <@Catonic> The problem with explaining it is that -- yes, you do have to pass a law to make it lawful to do something once it's been made illegal, because you have to pass an act to _repeal_ the legislation on the books, thereby decriminalizing the act.
11:54 <@dasunt> oddball: Much later - 14th incorporated some of the bill of rights, but I want to say it took later until it was interpreted to apply to most.
11:55 <@dasunt> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights <- Oh, here's it.
11:55 < PigBot> Title: Incorporation of the Bill of Rights - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/nt9ouk2
11:56 <@Corydon76> Catonic: yes, but that doesn't necessarily add to the law.  You can write a bill that does nothing but strike words from the lawbooks.
11:56 <@Catonic> It is more than a footnote to point out that if one has applied for a job as a law enforcement officer and been recognized by the state as one, almost unlimited overtime, free room and board, and military hardware become benfits as long as the association remains.
11:57 <@Catonic> It's amazingly difficult to write Acts of legislation that repeal laws. People start looking at you like you have three heads.
11:57 <@Corydon76> Similarly, a court can rule in such a way that even if a law is not explicitly stricken from the lawbooks, most lawbooks are annotated that the provision is no longer enforceable
11:57 <@dasunt> e.g. sodomy laws.
11:57 <@Corydon76> Exactly
11:57 <@dasunt> Which have been struck down for what?  A decade now?
11:58 <@dasunt> Sometimes, the US scares the shit out of me when it comes to our laws.
11:58 <@oddball> Catonic: yep.  They always go with the extreme cases.
11:58 <@Catonic> oh, I forgot my favorite observation: that the penal codes are supposed to survive a "plain reading" by someone with proof of a sixth-grade education for $9/hr or more but have to be analyzed and argued by someone with twelve years of college and a billing rate of $125-250/hr to actually determine how and if they apply in that specific situation
11:58 <@Corydon76> Tennessee's sodomy law was struck from the books in 1995, but it's still technically on the books, even though the TNSC struck it down nearly a decade before SCOTUS struck all such laws from the books
11:59 <@oddball> Example: you suggest that we repeal a law that says that sex offfenders aren't allowed within 3 miles of a school, and folks take that to mean that you want pedophiles hanging out at playgrounds.
11:59 <@Catonic> Yeah, or AL's anti-kinky-sex laws.
12:00 <@Catonic> it's the sort of thing that makes me wish Don Knotts was still around and a bit younger, because I'd love to hear him explain AL's sex laws as Barney Fife.
12:01 <@Catonic> "What's a deviant sexual act?" "Uh... well, Opie, it's when the man puts his ... ah...."
12:01 <@Corydon76> Catonic:  Barney Fife usually just went with "The law's the law"
12:01 <@Corydon76> Begging the question
12:02 <@Corydon76> Usually going on to be schooled 10 minutes later that sometimes it's better for law enforcement to effectively look the other way
12:02 <@Catonic> that or "ask your paw" or "Well, you know how your father is always going out with unmarried women like teachers and nurses...."
12:03 <@Catonic> exactly.
12:03 <@Corydon76> It's not nearly as amusing in real life when the arresting officer is also the Sheriff, who is also the local Magistrate
12:03 <@Catonic> true as well.
12:03 <@Catonic> I have seen some *stuff* in local court rooms.
12:03 <@Corydon76> i.e. you can demand a hearing all you want, but you merely end up wasting the same guy's time
12:04 <@Catonic> "Well, your honor, as you can tell, I have counsel, and the defendant, being destitute has merely bought two bushels of crazy and no legal basis for countering the argument, let alone standing."
12:06 <@Catonic> but at the same time... a jury trial is a complete gamble, but so it a bench trial, assuming that the judge actually paid attention in law school.
12:09 <@Catonic> *is
12:10 <@Catonic> I truly wonder how things are differnent in the remaining Roman legal systems, but ... well, last time I got on the subject of Roman law, I was talking with an unemployed lawyer.
12:10 <@Catonic> Apparently it's a very cut-and-dried system.
12:13 <@Corydon76> There won't be any trial for the shooter.  He's dead.
12:39 <@oddball> aestetix: By the way, at least one Dem has gone in front of CNN cameras and use the shooting as a reason for more gun control.
12:42 <@Dolemite> But Democrats hate guns!
12:43 <@Dolemite> And anybody that is anti-Trump is a Democrat!
12:43 <@oddball> And he's stating that we need more gun laws.
12:44 <@oddball> If you're talking about the shooter, I'd say that anyone that works on a dem presidential campaign, and registers as a democrat is... a democrat.
12:54 <@Dolemite> oddball: Yes, I'm just making fun of the paradoxical nature of someone being a Democrat *and* having a gun
12:55 <@oddball> Oh, that's pretty easy to explain.  It's ok for *them* to own a gun, just not anyone else.
12:57 <@dasunt> You can be for more gun control and not against gun ownership.
12:58 <@dasunt> Like, I'm against drunk drivers wtih multiple convictions owning or having access to an automobile, but I also own a car.
12:58 <@dasunt> That doesn't make me a hypocrit.
13:00 <@oddball> But you're not then advocating for all cars to have a speed limiter set at 30mph.
13:00 <@dasunt> Actually, I totally would.
13:00 <@Dolemite> I advocate for everybody who wants to own a gun to be educated on gun safety.
13:00 <@dasunt> I bike to work.  That's a method of transportation that makes you really hate cars.
13:01 <@Dolemite> But once you've passed your safety test, enjoy.
13:01 <@dasunt> Well, not "hate", just have a really low opinion of the average driver.
13:01 <@Dolemite> F*ckin' cyclists!
13:02 <@dasunt> I thought I was going to see someone roadrage another person today, because car #1 was making a left hand turn but not turning due to a ped in the crosswalk.
13:02 <@dasunt> Car #2 (behind car #1) saw no oncoming traffic, and kept honking at car #1.
13:02 <@dasunt> Car #2 finally swerves around car #1, and almost hits the ped.
13:08 <@Dolemite> Aaand apparently 4 people shot at a UPS facility in San Francisco
13:08 <@Dolemite> https://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/372511006-Multiple-people-wounded-in-San-Francisco-shooting/
13:09 < PigBot> Title: Multiple people wounded in San Francisco shooting (at www.policeone.com) http://tinyurl.com/yadshxo3
13:14 <@Catonic> drunk drivers should never have access to a motor vehicle. Well, unless that drunk driver is a single mom barely making it from month to month.
13:14 <@Dolemite> no...
13:15 <@Catonic> I guess they didn't go Postal after all.
13:16 <@Catonic> The problem with being a pedestrian or a cyclist is that no one actually bothers to do the homework before engaging in the activity.
13:17 <@Catonic> 99% of cyclists are motorists first, but the inverse is not true.
13:18 <@Catonic> And pedestrians may not intentionally place themselves in harm's way or disregard controlled sidewalk signals (to acquire currency).
13:18 <@Catonic> In Alabama, the precendence is defined in law, but no one knows it in practice. Bikes, cars, and trucks share. Pedestrians yeild.
13:19 <@Catonic> The minute ego gets involved, it goes nuts.
13:20 <@Catonic> "I'm right, you're wrong!" ... and this what leads to an arbitrary and capricious law enforcement situation, where they have no interest in ruining someone's day or life over something mundane that a parent would be like "Kids, just get along."
13:21 <@Catonic> that and the low standards of the department and general apathy for any and all situations other than what tickles the officer's adrenaline.
13:22 <@Corydon76> dasunt: each cyclist hit is worth 70 points, though!
14:43 <@dasunt> Catonic: I would suspect that few motorists could properly explain what is an unmarked crosswalk or how the law applies to it.
14:45 <@dasunt> For example, Alabama law:  : Vehicles must yield the right-of-way to pedestrians within a crosswalk that are in the same half of the roadway as the vehicle or when a pedestrian is approaching closely enough from the opposite side of the roadway to constitute a danger. Pedestrians may not suddenly leave the curb and enter a crosswalk into the path of a moving vehicle that is so close to constitute an immediate hazard. Pedestrians must yield the right-of-
15:02 < K`Tetch> 13:54:26 «@Dolemite» oddball: Yes, I'm just making fun of the paradoxical nature of someone being a Democrat *and* having a gun <-- I'm centrist (not center-right like most Dems) and I used to co-own a gunsmithing business
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20:53 <@Dagmar> Yay Coinbase/GDAX are struggling!
20:53 <@Dagmar> ...which makes their users flip the fuck out and panic sell
20:54 <@Dagmar> ...or at least, enough to drop the price another $20.  :)
20:54 <@Dagmar> ...where I lie in wait.
20:54 <@Dagmar> Sheerly out of luck I might add
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21:18 < cyberanger> Dagmar: so what exactly is going on with Coinbase
21:30 <@Dagmar> They're just having some capacity problems mainly
21:31 <@Dagmar> Also, don't use them for buying/selling.
21:32 <@Dagmar> Move yer stuff over to their exchange site GDAX.
21:32 <@Dagmar> You can use the Limit option and avoid fees
21:34 < cyberanger> I don't do enough buying or selling to matter
21:35 < cyberanger> I mean I may have bought a bitcoin worth over the years (mostly when they first opened)
21:36 <@Dagmar> I finally decided to do something about the fact that I can do math and these markets are almost predictably volatile
21:36 <@Dagmar> If they go up & down 5-10% a day, well...
21:36 <@Dagmar> Yay math!
21:37 < cyberanger> I don't have money in the account now, thought about using bitcoin again, but buying a vanilla visa is just easier.
21:37 <@Dagmar> Set buy order for 5% below current.  Nap awhile.  Place sell order for 10% above that.  Nap some more.
21:37 <@Dagmar> Rinse, repeat.
21:39 < cyberanger> I've thought about that, maybe time to revisit the idea.
21:39 < cyberanger> What about Capital Gains Tax?
21:39 <@Dagmar> It's regular income tax last I checked
21:39 <@Dagmar> I don't really have a problem with paying income tax
21:40 <@Dagmar> If you're MINING the damn coins, then the IRS shoves a hot poker up your butt
21:40 <@Dagmar> The tax burden is an unpleasantly large amount of each coin
21:41 < cyberanger> Same here, that's what I love about Forex too, it's just income tax (and documenting a foreign account too, minor one day a year headache)
21:42 <@Dagmar> I don't do Vegas because I can do math
21:42 <@Dagmar> This is a form of gambling that I can show a profit on _because_ I can do math
21:42 <@Dagmar> At the scale I'm working with, I'm not causing any price sliding or anything
21:44 <@Dagmar> Counting on the volatility has me way above what I'd be looking at if I just bought some and sat on it
21:44 <@Dagmar> If the stuff goes down but not up, I just wait it out
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22:09 <@Dagmar> Whee time for bed
22:11 < cyberanger> Dagmar: Sleep well, nice chatting
22:36  * Catonic takes six Benedryl and roofies himself until morning
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