--- Log opened Tue Jun 06 00:00:45 2017 00:22 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18 < aestetix> http://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.html?m=1 02:19 < PigBot> Title: Errata Security: How The Intercept Outed Reality Winner (at blog.erratasec.com) http://tinyurl.com/ya77fum4 02:21 < aestetix> It appears to me that the Intercept fucked up opsec and outed their source 05:43 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 05:43 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:19 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez! 06:29 * aestetix hugs Dolemite 06:30 <@Mirage> Dolemite: about time you got to work. 06:34 <@Dolemite> ha! 06:34 <@Dolemite> What the hell are you doing up this early? 06:37 <@Mirage> working 06:37 <@Mirage> pshaw! 06:38 <@Mirage> Wife's alarm woke me up and I couldn't get bck to sleep..so i got up. 07:10 < TheDukh> Some of the worst words you can hear in the south: "your hvac motor is shot, and we don't have any replacements handy" 07:10 <@Dolemite> :( 07:12 <@Mirage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdeIpLTjD3M 07:12 < PigBot> Title: 20 Trunk Monkey Ads in HD - BEST of the BEST! 2017 :-D - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/mk5nypf 07:20 < dfused> Shame they didnt keep going on those commercials... they were great 07:32 -!- remoford [~remo_lapt@c-68-52-35-32.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 07:36 <@Mirage> lol..one of the guys at work is getting audited by the IRS..so far they've determined he's getting money back. 07:36 <@Mirage> he says he bets they wish they'd just left him alone. 07:38 < dfused> wow 07:41 <@opticron> same thing happened to my dad 08:06 <@Corydon76> Mirage: that is super awesome 08:32 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXLa5tprhLc 08:33 -!- ^020d [~^020d@c-73-7-0-87.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #se2600 09:04 <@Corydon76> It is rather odd how running a "business" suddenly makes you eligible to all sorts of deductions and credits. 09:05 <@Corydon76> It's a nice lesson not to have "hobbies", but to turn them into "businesses". 09:27 <@Catonic> morning 09:27 <@Catonic> Corydon76: one guy I know says "All my hobbies have names." 09:39 < TheDukh> Soo, here's a question for you all. 09:39 < TheDukh> the latest leak from the NSA, what do you think that the leak was, well, legitimate in the nature? 09:39 < TheDukh> Not so much the findings, but more the whole scenario 09:45 < aestetix> TheDukh: I'm very disappointed with The Intercept. 09:46 < aestetix> At the moment it appears that their shitty opsec lead to that arrest. 09:46 < TheDukh> from uploading the document itself instead of copy/pasta 09:46 < aestetix> blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reality-winner.html?m=1 09:47 <@Mirage> mmm..pasta 10:05 <@Corydon76> aestetix: I'm not sure why. Remember what Snowden had to do to get Greenwald up to speed on encryption. Journalists are largely idiots when it comes to technology. 10:06 <@Corydon76> It was the whistleblower who screwed up big time with the disclosure. It's entirely on her to protect her own identity, not the journalists. 10:06 < aestetix> Corydon76: I'm not saying it's surprising. 10:06 < aestetix> It's just disappointing. 10:07 <@Corydon76> Again, why? The assumption is that the newspaper would know how to protect the documents. That's hogwash. 10:08 <@Corydon76> Your disappointment with them is based upon unrealistic expectations 10:09 < aestetix> Because the few technologists who do work there are very, very skilled, and I would have thought part of the editorial process was putting the pre-publication stuff through a sort of technical red team. 10:11 < aestetix> https://theintercept.com/about/ 10:11 < PigBot> Title: About & Contacts – The Intercept (at theintercept.com) http://tinyurl.com/y9ye7yhe 10:11 < aestetix> Micah is one of the founders. 10:11 < aestetix> Well "founders" 10:12 < aestetix> And while he's with First Look and apparently not The Intercept, Morgan is very, very skilled. 10:12 < aestetix> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Marquis-Boire 10:12 < PigBot> Title: Morgan Marquis-Boire - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/ybe9cdgk 10:12 < aestetix> So I had assumed that something with the gravity of an NSA leak would have at least gone through *some* technical scrutiny. 10:14 <@Corydon76> It does lead to the question, though. Can microdots be defeated by taking a yellow highlighter and putting a line across the top of each page? 10:15 <@Corydon76> Y'know, instead of an ugly black line 10:15 -!- strages [uid11297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzvdihkxovyegavx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:19 < aestetix> Corydon76: btw, don't mistake what I am saying 10:19 < aestetix> I think she was a complete fucking idiot 10:20 < aestetix> But I'm also disappointed the intercept didn't do anything 10:21 <@Corydon76> Maybe the assumption on the part of the journalists is that the source already protected him/herself. 10:22 <@Corydon76> And quite frankly, how exactly are the journalists expected to figure that out, especially if they have no experience in that? 10:23 < aestetix> Yeah, I just wish they had a process for it. 10:23 < aestetix> That's all. 10:23 <@Corydon76> They know not to disclose the name or the address of their source. They don't know anything else. 10:24 <@Corydon76> If they were smarter and knew this stuff, they probably would be security contractors, not journalists. 10:24 <@Corydon76> Apparently, the NSA had a security contractor who was only qualified to be a journalist 10:28 < aestetix> I'm probable biased. 10:28 < aestetix> I'm extremely unhappy with the state of the security-activism commuinty. 10:28 < aestetix> community* 10:29 < TheDukh> still, it seems kinda off that they were able to work at the NSA for that long and be that much of a dumbass 10:30 < aestetix> You mean like signing up for a known classified data leaker website, from a work computer, in a secured facility? 10:31 <@Corydon76> Snowden was a wakeup call to the NSA that they needed to stop hiring really smart people who could evade their security mechanisms. Hiring dumbasses was the natural result. 10:31 < aestetix> haha 10:31 <@Corydon76> You think I'm joking... 10:32 <@Corydon76> That's seriously one of the recommendations in the cleanup after Snowden. Snowden was too smart to be a contractor. 10:32 < aestetix> And he's even not that smart. 10:32 < aestetix> Either he's not that smart, or Greenwald is a liar. 10:32 < TheDukh> I'd prolly go with the latter. 10:33 <@Corydon76> He's very smart, but he's not perfect. 10:33 < aestetix> I say that based on the fact that so far no intel has been leaked that could actually bring a lawsuit forward to force reforms. 10:33 < aestetix> The closest they released was the first FISA document. 10:34 < aestetix> So either Snowden was an idealistic idiot, or Greenwald is a fame whore who doesn't actually care about reforming things. 10:35 < TheDukh> I'm still of the belief that she was picked out because of her beliefs, that the administration wanted someone to shut down who would also be perceived as an enemy of the administration. 10:35 <@Corydon76> Journalists are not reformers. 10:36 <@Corydon76> The intent of a good journalist is to bring stories to light. That's all. It's up to others to take that story and use it to propel reform. 10:36 < aestetix> Is the intent also to withold source material that could advance reform? 10:37 < aestetix> Either 1. Snowden wasn't smart enough to grab something that could trigger a lawsuit 2. Greenwald is witholding that information for personal reasons 10:37 <@Corydon76> I think you're confusing intent with happenstance 10:37 <@Corydon76> If the information doesn't advance the story that the journalist is trying to tell, of course it won't be in the story 10:38 < aestetix> Which means he's a shitty journalist 10:38 <@Corydon76> Journalists are not simple purveyors of data dumps 10:38 < aestetix> You'd think that the narrative should at least somewhat match the truth 10:38 <@Corydon76> Again, unrealistic expectations 10:39 < aestetix> The worst part is this isn't due to negligence. Greenwald used to be a lawyer. 10:40 <@Corydon76> My brother-in-law is an attorney. If you asked him about any of this crap, he wouldn't have the first clue 10:41 < aestetix> But would he be able to look at a pile of data points and tell you which would be relevant in pursuing a lawsuit? 10:41 <@Corydon76> And it's not because he's an idiot. It's because it's outside of his knowledge domain. 10:42 <@Corydon76> Ah, I see where you lack knowledge in the lawsuit domain. 10:42 <@Corydon76> In order to bring a lawsuit, you have to have "standing". 10:42 < aestetix> Right. 10:42 < aestetix> That's exactly my point. 10:42 < aestetix> So far, none of the revelations constitute standing. 10:42 <@Corydon76> Tell me, who exactly do you think has standing to sue on any of these matters? 10:42 < aestetix> No individual can prove they were illegally monitored. 10:43 <@Corydon76> No, that's not the requirement for standing. 10:43 < aestetix> If there were proof of NSA spying on someone, that individual would be able to sue. 10:43 <@Corydon76> No individual can prove that they were HARMED by being illegally monitored 10:43 < aestetix> The reason Clapper hasn't moved forward is lack of specificity. 10:44 <@Corydon76> If you were not harmed, you have no case. 10:44 < aestetix> If someone had evidence that they were targeted unlawfully, that would be a case. 10:44 <@Corydon76> No, it's not. 10:44 <@Corydon76> You have to be able to show harm, and a violation of privacy is not harm. 10:45 < aestetix> That's something the courts have been arguing about for 40 years. 10:45 <@Corydon76> A violation of privacy may be a legal theory as to HOW harm was caused, but it is not harm in itself 10:45 < aestetix> Ok, so if you record a conversation without telling someone, in a two party state, that's not illegal? 10:46 <@Corydon76> Yes, but not because it's a violation of privacy. That is a specific violation of the law. 10:47 <@Corydon76> But more to the point, who do you think has standing to prosecute that case? 10:47 < aestetix> At the moment, nobody. 10:47 <@Corydon76> The private individual cannot sue for violation of the 2-party statute 10:47 < aestetix> Because there is no evidence. 10:47 <@Corydon76> Only the DA can prosecute that crime. 10:47 <@Corydon76> In other words, the government has the standing. Not the individual. 10:47 < aestetix> Oh I misunderstood the question. 10:48 < aestetix> Well the reason this gets complicated is because in the US the view of privacy is complicated. 10:48 <@Corydon76> So in the case of the NSA violating the law, who has standing to sue? Only the government can. 10:49 <@Corydon76> Now you should see the basic problem in the law. It's not that the government cannot be sued, but only that the government is the only entity which can bring that case. 10:49 < aestetix> Agreed. 10:50 <@Corydon76> So tell me again how Greenwald failed 10:50 < aestetix> Because if Snowden were as smart as he seems to be, he would understand the law, and understand what is necessary to bring about the reforms he claims he wanted. 10:50 < aestetix> And assuming that is true, Greenwald has withheld evidence demonstrating such from the public. 10:50 <@Corydon76> Why would a person knowledgable about security necessarily be knowledgable about the law? 10:51 <@Corydon76> You're talking about two different knowledge domains 10:51 < aestetix> Corydon76: no reason. That's why if it's not greenwald, I hold snowden to account. 10:51 <@Corydon76> Snowden is knowledgable about security, not the law. 10:52 < aestetix> Agreed. 10:52 <@Corydon76> Greenwald is knowledgable about a particular law domain, not security. 10:52 < aestetix> And that is clearly demonstrated by the fact that no evidence has surfaced that would enact the reforms he wanted. 10:53 < aestetix> So either 1. Snowden is also smart in the law, in which case Greenwald is a dick or 2. Snowden was not that smart in the law, and greenwald benefited anyways 10:53 < aestetix> In either case, everyone loses. 10:53 < aestetix> Except greenwald I guess 10:53 <@Corydon76> I'll go with door #2, Alex 10:53 < aestetix> sadly, same 10:55 < aestetix> I still hold out hope, but not much. 10:55 < aestetix> The worst part is if you try to bring up any of these objections with the security-activism community, you get excommunicated. 10:57 <@Corydon76> Again, unrealistic expectations 10:57 <@Corydon76> If you think reform is needed, then you need to the agent of change. Stop expecting others to do it for you 10:59 <@Corydon76> "I'm only one man." So is Snowden. So is Greenwald. 10:59 < aestetix> At the moment, I'm quite happy watching the reality tv show that is the United States, from afar :) 10:59 <@Corydon76> Get out of your ivory tower and off your high horse and go do it. 11:00 <@Corydon76> Apparently not. If you were happy, you wouldn't be bellyaching about it. 11:00 < aestetix> You're starting to sound like Jake 11:00 < TheDukh> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/world/europe/united-nations-trump-human-rights.html 11:00 < TheDukh> The United States called on Tuesday for the United Nations Human Rights Council to make significant changes to how it operates and to cease passing what it called “biased” resolutions against Israel, although it stopped short of threatening to pull out of the body. 11:00 < PigBot> "Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 303: The HTTP server returned a redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop.\nThe last 30x error message was:\nSee Other. http://tinyurl.com/y6uda54r" 11:01 <@Corydon76> I'm happy building my fortress in rural Tennessee with sufficient food, water, and firepower to survive a period of civil unrest. 11:01 < aestetix> "civil unrest" == the reality show 11:02 <@Corydon76> Oh, baloney 11:03 <@Corydon76> About the closest we've come to civil unrest was a couple of years ago, in 2010, when we had a natural disaster sweep through the area, and we couldn't leave our homes for days. 11:03 <@Corydon76> And fortunately, people kept their heads, and nothing happened. 11:05 <@Corydon76> The problem with civil unrest, though, is that it's entirely unpredictable. It's better to be prepared and have nothing happen than to be unprepared when it does happen 11:06 <@Corydon76> If the NSA wants to spy on me, I can promise that the watchers will be alternatively bored to death and grossed out. 11:28 < dfused> nsa spies will suffer from ptsd from watching you. 11:30 <@Corydon76> They'd be even more entertained by wiretapping my home, as I have a talking parrot 11:33 <@Mirage> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY7m5jjJ9mM 11:33 < PigBot> Title: CATS will make you LAUGH YOUR HEAD OFF - Funny CAT compilation - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/yd3t963x 12:27 < dfused> goddammit....NO... just NO!!... seeing cowboy bebop getting live action remake. 12:33 <@Dolemite> Cowboy Mmmmbop, starring the Hanson Brothers! 12:35 < dfused> I blame millennials. 12:35 <@Dolemite> and their avocado toast? 12:35 < dfused> yes 12:39 <@Dagmar> Wheeee 12:40 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbFrCaGgRlc 12:41 < PigBot> Title: Press Briefing with Press Secretary Sean Spicer - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/yadtc4sv 12:54 <@Dolemite> http://www.knoxfarmacy.com/menu/ 12:54 <@Dolemite> Fucking millenials 12:54 < PigBot> Title: Our Menu | KnoxFarmacy (at www.knoxfarmacy.com) http://tinyurl.com/ybp37a7x 12:54 <@Dolemite> Look at the top right of the menu 12:55 < dfused> dem lemon poppyseed ancakes look goddamned tasty af though 12:55 <@Dolemite> I'm down at the bottom looking at the Good Ole Boy 12:56 <@Dolemite> Or The Farmacist 12:56 <@Dolemite> Damn, I gotta stop looking at this 12:56 < dfused> hoe-lee-shit. that farmacist does look awesome 12:57 < dfused> it just has all the things 12:57 < dfused> only thing missing is a blowjob and a beer 12:57 <@Dolemite> Yeah. I may have to make a date night of it with the wife after it opens. 12:58 < dfused> I ....uh.. yeah, I dont wanna know details. 12:58 <@Dolemite> Ha! Yeah, given what you just said was lacking 12:58 <@Dolemite> Open 10a-4p. I guess it wouldn't ever be for a "date night" 12:59 < dfused> date brunch 12:59 <@Dolemite> yar 12:59 <@Corydon76> On their About page: "I can't wait to feed you." 13:00 <@Corydon76> That's vaguely creepy 13:00 < dfused> oh myyyyy 13:00 <@Dagmar> I would rather one that said "We have such snacks to show you." 13:00 <@Dagmar> ...which is _very_ creepy. 13:20 <@Mirage> Like ppl in here need any ideas.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srtKWkkbZHU 13:20 < PigBot> Title: 150 Hilarious Acts of Vandalism Best part | That Will Make You relax and laugh - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/yc9z6k3r 14:12 -!- dfused [~dfused@nc-184-0-129-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [] 14:42 <@Catonic> aww yeaaah 14:42 -!- Catonic [~catonic@71-45-91-197.res.bhn.net] has quit [Quit: f'n closet gnomes] 15:09 -!- Catonic [~catonic@71-45-91-197.res.bhn.net] has joined #se2600 15:09 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o Catonic] by ChanServ 15:10 <@Catonic> I wondered how long it was going to take for the status to be changed. 15:10 <@Catonic> GeekNIC is/was a really good idea. 15:11 <@Catonic> GeekNIC: come for the mountains, stay for the Smokies. 15:15 <@Mirage> Catonic: it was changed to "too late, you missed it" about a week afterward 15:18 <@Dagmar> Kill Switch is pretty good 15:18 <@Corydon76> http://www.melrosestampco.com/i-dont-give-a-shit-rubber-stamp-for-office-use-self-inking/ 15:18 < PigBot> Title: I DONT GIVE A SHIT Rubber Stamp for office use self-inking - Melrose Stamp Company (at www.melrosestampco.com) http://tinyurl.com/yauqcxrm 15:19 <@Corydon76> I think a few office documents might need that stamp. 15:20 <@Dagmar> Egad. This AT&T connection practically falls over if you upload things 15:21 < ^020d> I had that problem... till the tech came over and noticed I was physically pushing my documents into the modem. 18:29 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:5b0:2b1c:190b:fcae] has quit [] 18:36 <@Dagmar> Amber Alerts are not welcome on my phone when I'm in the middle of setting up 2FA 20:52 -!- dfused [~dfused@nc-184-0-129-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #se2600 21:05 < ^020d> Turned it off on my phone, never met an Amber I liked. 21:05 < dfused> Ambers are always bithces 21:05 < ^020d> (Yes I'd love to save endangered kids, I kept getting alerts from all over the country) 21:06 < ^020d> The DC770 presentation had the alert interruption too. --- Log closed Wed Jun 07 00:00:47 2017