--- Log opened Thu May 04 00:00:53 2017
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09:06 <@rattle> BTC is about to smash $1,600.
09:09 <@Dagmar> I'm going to be a little pissed if BofA continues to drag their feet on my last transfer
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09:13 < aestetix> you know
09:13 < aestetix> it seems like these bubbles keep happening
09:13 < aestetix> everyone magically forgets about the last one
09:13 < aestetix> re: bitcoin
09:18 < Evilpig_> i'm in a room with poettering, can anyoje get me out of the country if i attack him?
09:20 < _NSAKEY> No, but I'll do what I can to help raise your bail fund.
09:20 < Evilpig_> https://goo.gl/photos/Mkposa6nDtvNiPGJ7
09:20 < PigBot`> Evilpig_: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
09:21 < Evilpig_> he finds the gif of hungry hungry systemd hikarious and claimed it's not a monolithic monstrousity
09:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
09:23  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
09:33 <@dasunt> Evilpig_: No matter what, don't ever give him any ideas on what next to "improve".
09:35 <@dasunt> Although at current rates of "integration", systemd should replace all other parts of linux by 2021.
09:36 < Evilpig_> dasunt he's gunning for cron hardcore right now
09:37 <@dasunt> Jesus.
09:37 < aestetix> dasunt: how can I help you, my child?
09:37 < Evilpig_> oh and adding a version of vlan targetting to applications
09:37 <@dasunt> WTF is wrong with him?
09:38 <@dasunt> Does he know what "monolithic" means?
09:38 < Evilpig_> god complex
09:38 < Evilpig_> he's claiming it's modular... ignoring the fact that all the moduals ate required
09:39  * dasunt cries.
09:39 <@dasunt> Evilpig_: Is there going to be a Q&A session?
09:40 < _NSAKEY> Evilpig_: If there's aa Q&A, ask him what posssessed him to take on the init system after fucking audio up.
09:40 < _NSAKEY> In 2017, I still have to disable PulseAudio just to make my hardware work.
09:40 < aestetix> haha
09:40 < _NSAKEY> s/hardware/sound hardware/
09:40 <@dasunt> No, if there's a Q&A, ask him how just to install the init, without the systemd logging, login, etc.
09:41 <@dasunt> It's "modular", so it should be possible, right?
09:48 <@dasunt> _NSAKEY: The sad thing is, OSS wasn't that bad.  The Linux version was, but the other versions were not.
09:52 < _NSAKEY> I have to use ALSA, which still basically works.
09:52 < _NSAKEY> PulseAudio has gotten to be less terrible over time, but it's still not perfect all these years later.
09:57 < aestetix> well it begs the question
09:57 < aestetix> are you pro-choice or pro-systemd
09:57 <@dasunt> ^- Okay, that's the Q&A question you need to ask!
10:00 < Evilpig_> no q&a
10:00 < aestetix> oh I missed the comment from Evilpig_
10:00 < aestetix> good god I am so sorry
10:00 < aestetix> Evilpig_: is he as much of a douche in person as I have heard?
10:02 < xray> Why not ask him. He is standing behind you.
10:07 < aestetix> you know who is a huge fan of systemd
10:07 <@Corydon76> poettering is standing behind aestetix?
10:07 < aestetix> weev
10:07 <@Corydon76> Is aestetix perchance bent over?
10:07 < xray> no Evilpig_
10:08 < xray> Ha. Made him look.
10:08 < Evilpig_> he was pretty much full of himself
10:08 < Evilpig_> he was very much on the modular topic but avoiding the all modules are required
10:08 <@Corydon76> It's not modular if competing modules don't exist
10:08 < aestetix> I was gonna say
10:09 <@Corydon76> Which is a good question.  Can we create competing modules that fit into his structure that do nothing beyond providing stubs for his monstrosity?
10:09 < aestetix> Evilpig_: ask him what he thinks of POSIX
10:09 < aestetix> you know
10:10 < Evilpig_> i've left the area
10:10 < aestetix> I'd love to see rms and poettering in a boxing ring
10:10 <@Corydon76> Stallman probably thinks systemd is a good thing, as it might drive people towards his Hurd kernel
10:10 < aestetix> ok, linus, rms, and poettering in a ring together
10:11 <@Corydon76> Linus _was_ pretty pissed about systemd coopting a kernel-native debug value
10:12 <@Corydon76> Why anybody thought it was a good idea for a userspace program to use a kernel debug value instead of namespacing its own options is beyond me
10:19 < aestetix> well here's the thing
10:20 < aestetix> if I want what systemd offers
10:20 < aestetix> why not just use BSD?
10:29 < aestetix> oh nice
10:29 < aestetix> wordpress drama
10:29 < aestetix> someone just published 0day on hn
10:29 < xray> yet another wordpress vuln
10:29 < aestetix> I went to look for the patch, and apparently there isn't one yet
10:29 < aestetix> let me rephrase
10:29 < xray> static web sites for the win
10:29 < aestetix> there are community patches
10:29 < aestetix> but nothing official
10:30 < xray> did you see the rpcbind vuln
10:30 < xray> the maintainers have no interest in fixing it
10:30 < xray> one UDP packet to port 111 crashes the box
10:31 < xray> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/04/linux_rpcbind_vulnerability/
10:31 < PigBot`> Title: You only need 60 bytes to hose Linux's rpcbind • The Register (at www.theregister.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/m4n4kg6
10:33 <@Corydon76> Saw an advert for cheap circumcisions, but it turned out to be a rip off.
10:55 < K`Tetch> never understood the American obsession with that particular genetal mutilation
10:59 <@Corydon76> It started with the belief at the turn of the 20th century that it would curb masturbation
10:59 <@Corydon76> By the time they figured out that it didn't, an entire generation of men wanted their sons to look the same way
11:02 < aestetix> Corydon76: I thought it was about disease
11:02 < xray> got any references to backup you're assertions?
11:02 < aestetix> There's also the whole ark of the convenant thing...
11:03 <@Corydon76> aestetix: that's only for Jewish people
11:03 < aestetix> Yes I realize this
11:03 < xray> Not sure I get your meaning
11:03 <@Corydon76> Christians were not prevalently circumcised under the turn of the century in America
11:03 <@Corydon76> s/under/until/
11:04 < xray> and you know this how?
11:04 <@Corydon76> https://www.circinfo.org/Circumcision_and_masturbation.html
11:04 < PigBot`> Title: Circumcision and masturbation | Circinfo.org (at www.circinfo.org) http://tinyurl.com/m527gbx
11:05 <@Corydon76> Lots of citations embedded in the article
11:06 < xray> Thanks for the link.
11:07 <@Corydon76> http://www.cirp.org/library/history/darby4/
11:07 < PigBot`> Title: The masturbation taboo and the rise of routine male circumcision: A review of the historiography - Review Essay (at www.cirp.org) http://tinyurl.com/n9ykmyj
11:11 <@Corydon76> Heh, Wikipedia cites nationalized healthcare as the reason why circumcision fell off so rapidly amongst Europeans, unlike Americans:  given no medical benefit, the national programs stopped covering the procedure, and male infants stopped getting the procedure as a result.
11:59 < aestetix> god
11:59 < aestetix> I'd never watched the Chris Hanson show before
12:00 < aestetix> Now I've seen a few episodes. I feel somewhere between revolted and happy that those predators are in jail now
12:04 <@Corydon76> aestetix: A good number of them were able to have their cases thrown out, because the publicity of the show made them unable to have a fair trial
12:04 < aestetix> That makes sense.
12:04 <@Corydon76> It was also argued that the desire of the show for drama made the TV show take certain licenses with entrapment
12:05 < aestetix> I was curious about that
12:05 < aestetix> The show doesn't really explain how they catch the guys
12:05 <@Corydon76> Perverted Justice was the organization which brought those men in
12:05 < aestetix> I mean
12:06 < aestetix> Is there some chat room?
12:06 <@Corydon76> Basically, they sit online and pretend to be teenagers
12:06 < TheDukh> Can you imagine the guys having to play the underage kids?
12:06 < aestetix> Where do they sit online?
12:06 < TheDukh> yahoo or aol, prolly
12:06 <@Corydon76> Yahoo chat rooms, among others
12:06 < aestetix> haha
12:06 < aestetix> wait really?
12:06 <@Corydon76> Yep
12:06 < TheDukh> pretty much
12:06 < aestetix> I was thinking aobut it
12:06 < TheDukh> yahoo chat is shit for  alot of reasons, pedo's lurking isn't even the top one
12:06 < aestetix> And realized if I watched to catch one of those guys, I would have no idea where to go
12:07 <@Corydon76> I don't know why you'd want to catch one of them.
12:07 < aestetix> Is it like "hi I'm 14/f/la and I need a dick" and you message them?
12:07 < aestetix> Corydon76: I wouldn't actually. I'm just curious how the methodology works
12:08 < TheDukh> do they still do asl in chats?
12:08 <@Corydon76> I believe the way it works is that they set up a fake profile, then enter one of the teen chat rooms
12:08 <@Corydon76> Your profile is queryable, and then they start getting pelted by inquiries
12:09 < TheDukh> I wonder if my yahoo profile is still around
12:09 <@Corydon76> The legal intricacies of just what is entrapment is basically carefully monitored to ensure they aren't entrapping these men
12:10 < TheDukh> yep, go to yahoo, get a full page ad saying "make yahoo your default search engine!"
12:10 <@Corydon76> Basically, the men are volunteering to come by to the designated house
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12:12 <@Corydon76> It's all done carefully in a narrow sting, so the earliest ones caught can't make bail and warn off all of their pedo buddies
12:17 < aestetix> so these guys go to yahoo chat, and search for 12 year old girls?
12:18 < TheDukh> Anyone big on console gaming?
12:18 <@dasunt> That sounds horrible.  Not only Yahoo chat, but Yahoo chat with 12 year olds?
12:19 < aestetix> haha
12:21 <@Corydon76> aestetix: I'm fuzzy on what exactly the predators do, but they're motivated, and motivated people find what they want.
12:22 <@dasunt> ^- He's right.  And predator that goes after strangers tends to be at high risk of reoffending.
12:22 <@dasunt> s/And/Any/
12:22 <@Corydon76> I know, for example, that legitimate adult services have trouble keeping minors off -- on Grindr, for example, you occasionally do see underage males
12:22 < aestetix> I guess the "click this to prove you are 18" doesn't help
12:23 <@Corydon76> aestetix: well, click here to agree that you ARE 18, and if you're not, you don't have a right to use the service
12:23 <@dasunt> Corydon76: How can you tell someone who is undersage versus someone who looks really young for their age?
12:23 < TheDukh> "send me a pic of your DL, and if it works, boobs and or genital"
12:23 <@Corydon76> dasunt: they generally admit it, but I agree that there's no surefire way
12:24 <@Corydon76> And the law says that as an adult, you have a requirement to ensure that those you're engaging in sexual contact are of age
12:24 <@Corydon76> It falls on you, even if there's no way to do that
12:24 <@Corydon76> It sucks, but that's the law.
12:25 < aestetix> Sounds a bit like a safe harbor provision
12:25 <@dasunt> I understand why it's written that way (else the claim would be "well I thought he|she was 18!"), but it's kinda dumb as well.
12:26 <@Corydon76> Basically, the only way to know that someone is actually 18 would be to meet with them and see their government-issued ID.
12:26 <@Corydon76> I've never hooked up and seen an ID, have you?
12:26 <@Catonic> Alabama has an interesting provision in the laws that allows them to hire 18 year olds into Alabama Beverage Control.
12:26 <@Catonic> the idea being that we can prove that a person was definitely served underage because the agent is.
12:27 <@Corydon76> Catonic: yeah, that makes good sense
12:27 <@Corydon76> Catonic: it also seems rather like entrapment, though
12:28 <@Catonic> yup. Also the reason why ABC has the youngest retirees outside of the ivory towers.
12:29 <@Corydon76> aestetix: I will say that I've purposely asked guys, "Are you really 18?"
12:29 <@Corydon76> One guy replies, "Yeah, are you really 40?"
12:30 < aestetix> So you've been with 18 year olds recently?
12:30 <@Corydon76> Not that I'm aware of
12:31 <@Corydon76> Talked to, yes.  Been with, no.
12:32 <@Corydon76> Youngest recently was in his early 20s.  The details of which I will spare this channel.  If you want to know, you can join #asstricks
12:34 <@Catonic> lol, that's still around?
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14:25 <@Mirage> Dunno how many of you got the May the Fourth email, but "Meeesa is tinking bout unsubscribing fom ThinkGeek"
14:30 <@Corydon76> Yeah, that did seem a bit off the rails
14:31 <@Corydon76> I rather think there's an in-joke that the rest of the world is missing
14:31 <@dasunt> Looks like for healthcare, we're going back to high risk pools.
14:34 <@dasunt> Oh well.
14:36 <@opticron> and dodd-frank just got gutted
14:37 <@opticron> or is in process, anyway
14:37 <@dasunt> I'm still amazed that the GOP voted for a bill that will raise healthcare costs for older Americans.
14:37 <@dasunt> Also they've raised healthcare costs for poorer Americans.
14:39 <@dasunt> I love the whole clause that states can now require medicaid recipients to work.  Everyone I know that's abled-bodied whose on medicaid already has a job.  Some have more than one.
14:42 <@dasunt> I find this whole procedure of liberal democracies and politicians driving themselves off a collective cliff to be fascinating.  Will the Senate back the House's healthcare bill?  Will France vote for Le Pen?  When will the UK realize that Brexit was a bad idea?
14:51 <@Catonic> Mirage: LOL
14:54 <@dasunt> Rather interesting:  http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/04/spacex-internet-satellites-elon-musk.html
14:54 < PigBot`> Title: SpaceX to start sending internet satellites into space in 2019 (at www.cnbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/md2nw5u
15:17 < xray> 25ms latency which is about what you get out of DSL
15:17 < xray> If it works it will mean Internet just about anywhere on the planet
15:18 < xray> I'm really hoping it rocks so that it kicks the last mile providers in the teeth for shutting down Google fiber with all their wining and law suites
15:38 <@Corydon76> Where are you seeing 25ms latency?
15:39 <@Corydon76> There's no way _anybody_ can get 25ms latency out of satellites.  To do that, he'd have to transmit at faster than the speed of light.
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15:41 < K`Tetch> how far up would 10ms be...
15:43 <@Corydon76> It's not just a matter of distance.  It's also turnaround time, and processors in those units have to be hardened, because they're subject to space radiation, unprotected by the atmosphere
15:53 <@Corydon76> 25ms probably sounds about right for raw speed, but you're never going to see that in practical applications
15:54 < K`Tetch> well, it depends how low he's putting them
15:55 < K`Tetch> ok, from memory 0.001ns = 3mm, so 10ms is...
15:56 < K`Tetch> about 3000km
15:56 <@Corydon76> You also have to account for light only being at maximum velocity through space.  Through air, it moves slower
15:57 < xray> I'm not claiming that. SpaceX is. Go argue with them.
15:57 < K`Tetch> right, but Medium earth orbit starts at 2000km... so a LEO of say 1000km, means about 3.5ms in vacuum, say 4.5 in air
15:59 <@Corydon76> 4 times 4.5 is 18ms, raw speed
15:59 <@Corydon76> Now add time to switch the packet on a hardened processor, turnaround times at the far end on Earth... this also assumes that the path up and back down is a straight line
15:59 < K`Tetch> well, I'm adding big levels - the ISS is only at 200km, so could be ~1ms
16:00 <@Corydon76> (and not a diagonal)
16:00 < xray> Rather than speculate, why not go to the SpaceX site and read their technical paper.
16:00 <@Corydon76> i.e. if the satellite is directly overhead, you've got 18ms raw speeds
16:00 <@Corydon76> xray: have a link to the paper?
16:01 < K`Tetch> van allen belt is at 1000km, so we're within much of the protection, so doesn't have to be that hardened
16:01 <@Corydon76> Mister, "what evidence do you have for this?"
16:01 < xray> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/spacexs-falcon-9-rocket-will-launch-thousands-of-broadband-satellites/
16:01 < PigBot`> Title: With latency as low as 25ms, SpaceX to launch broadband satellites in 2019 | Ars Technica (at arstechnica.com) http://tinyurl.com/lvnmgvf
16:03 < xray> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_satellite_constellation
16:03 < PigBot`> Title: SpaceX satellite constellation - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/jgztuay
16:04 < xray> FCC submission https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/442_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=66082&license_seq=66693
16:04 < PigBot`> Title: FCC FORM 442 (at apps.fcc.gov) http://tinyurl.com/zxohmem
16:07 < xray> https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/spacex-Technical-Attachment.pdf
16:07 < PigBot`> xray: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
16:07 < xray> SPACEX NON-GEOSTATIONARY SATELLITE SYSTEM
16:07 < xray> TECHNICAL INFORMATION TO SUPPLEMENT SCHEDULE S
16:10 < xray> This very thorough article on satellite communications by APNIC also discusses the Van Allen belt and it's impact on satellites. It confirms what K`Tetch said. https://blog.apnic.net/2017/04/05/look-up/
16:10 < PigBot`> Title: Look up! | APNIC Blog (at blog.apnic.net) http://tinyurl.com/mtumpxf
16:30 <@Corydon76> Well, we'll see.  I still maintain that 25ms is a pipe dream that might be possible with raw speed, but you're never going to be in a situation where that speed is practically possible.
16:32 < K`Tetch> (I should point out that had I bothered to conitinue with uni, and not got married/kids/move to US , astrophysics would have been my next degree - left til later because I find it easy
16:33 < K`Tetch> my original aim was to get on a manned Mars mission (hence robotics (with an emphasis on teleoperation and safety systems) + astrophysics
16:39 <@Corydon76> K`Tetch: just curious, how long should a ping time be, theoretically over 10 meters from my desktop to my gateway, over copper wire?
16:52 < K`Tetch> I don't know c(copper)
16:52 < K`Tetch> is it going through a router?
16:53 <@Corydon76> Through a switch, yes
16:53 <@Corydon76> The gateway is the router
16:54 < K`Tetch> the physical cable limit is 33.3 ns,
16:55 < K`Tetch> everything on top is hardware/software based
16:56 < K`Tetch> of course, on such a small distance, you're heavily influenced by clockspeed of the devices as anything else
16:57 < K`Tetch> 10m v 200km i a bit of a difference
16:57 <@Corydon76> This is true
16:57 < K`Tetch> at 200km the distance is the major time delay factor, at 10m it's become a rounding error
16:59 < K`Tetch> (and I do know how bad sat lag can be - I've done liveTV over dedicated sat links, from the upload station at sphagetti junction to california it comes to about 2 seconds, once its deon throught he encoders, decoders, beamings, etc.
17:02 <@Corydon76> Well, let's look at it from the other direction.  What's the theoretical latency for a geostationary satellite?
17:02 <@Corydon76> I know what the ping times were when I was the only one using a link, so no contention issues
17:03 < K`Tetch> geostat is 27200miles
17:03 < K`Tetch> so, er... carry the 1...
17:03 < K`Tetch> 145ms?
17:04 <@Corydon76> Once you add in the overhead, it's 540ms
17:04 < K`Tetch> how long ago was this?
17:04 <@Corydon76> 2005, maybe?
17:05 < K`Tetch> dedicated local uplink/
17:05 <@Corydon76> Correct
17:05 < K`Tetch> band?
17:05 <@Corydon76> I don't know
17:06 < K`Tetch> ok, general usecase?
17:06 <@Corydon76> I was sitting in a secure facility where the satellite was previously used for TV, and the new owner wanted to use it for VOIP
17:07 < K`Tetch> happen to remember the sat name?
17:07 <@Corydon76> The latency made it so that it was fine as long as we had no packet loss.  Start losing packets, and the call would drop
17:07 < K`Tetch> horizons1 perhaps?
17:07 < K`Tetch> intelsat9?
17:07 <@Corydon76> I believe it was the old TNN satellite
17:08 <@Corydon76> TNN=The Nashville Network
17:08 < K`Tetch> yeah, i know
17:10 < K`Tetch> although they weren't on their own, didn't have their own sat
17:10 < K`Tetch> might have been using a DTV sat...
17:12 < K`Tetch> might have been intelsat 801
17:12 < K`Tetch> seems right for the time and era
17:12 < K`Tetch> and position
17:12 < K`Tetch> a 1997 sat
17:13 < K`Tetch> ku band beam - https://www.satbeams.com/!ajax/embed?beam=6360
17:14 < PigBot`> Title: Footprint of 29W-Ku-Spot2. © 2017 SatBeams (at www.satbeams.com) http://tinyurl.com/kfnnof7
17:14 <@Corydon76> The interesting thing about the ping times is that they were completely consistent.  Absolutely no variation over a series.
17:14 < K`Tetch> yeah, sounds like a ku band geostat link
17:16 < K`Tetch> wanna know where the sat was located over? http://www.n2yo.com/?s=24742
17:16 < PigBot`> Title: LIVE REAL TIME SATELLITE TRACKING AND PREDICTIONS: INTELSAT 801 (at www.n2yo.com) http://tinyurl.com/mr7ab99
17:16 <@Corydon76> It was fun going in and out of the teleport facility.  It was fairly well protected, but once you were inside, you had access to all sorts of interesting things
17:17 < K`Tetch> I have a feeling that spaceX's sats would be located more in line with the US, and not the middle of the Arabian sea
17:21 <@Corydon76> Wouldn't that location put it outside of where it could be sighted from Nashville?
17:21 < K`Tetch> no
17:22 < K`Tetch> earths radius is 6000km, this is 42,000km up
17:23 <@Corydon76> Still seems strange that a TV station meant for US-only markets would be using a satellite that far out of the way
17:23 < K`Tetch> https://www.satbeams.com/!ajax/embed?beam=6360 is the ku band beamzone for it
17:24 < PigBot`> Title: Footprint of 29W-Ku-Spot2. © 2017 SatBeams (at www.satbeams.com) http://tinyurl.com/kfnnof7
17:24 < K`Tetch> at least, when it was active
17:25 < K`Tetch> I think it was pushed east when it was retired, to give the orbital spot to someone else https://www.satbeams.com/satellites?norad=24742 is the details
17:25 < PigBot`> Title: SatBeams - Satellite Details - Intelsat 801 (IS-801) (at www.satbeams.com) http://tinyurl.com/ljbjmle
17:28 <@Corydon76> Decided not to deorbit the satellite?
17:48 < K`Tetch> easier at that height to push it along
17:48 < K`Tetch> deorbiting a geo means comeing through a lot of other junk and sats at MEO and LEO
17:49 < K`Tetch> one unexpected collision, and you've started a cluster-fuck of a mess
17:50 < K`Tetch> and while it's there, it's always available for some future use, even it's its just as a passive reflector, a measurement point for experiements, or a future target for ASW
18:46 <@Dagmar> Pew pew!  LAZERZ!
20:36 < fie> video encoding
22:22 < Evilpig_> Dagmar: I nearly texted you this photo this afternoon.  https://goo.gl/photos/RB7nja25QxaBuWQo7
22:22 < PigBot`> Evilpig_: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
22:42 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:91d8:10ea:8743:1065] has joined #se2600
22:58 <@Dagmar> Evilpig_: Fuck that tool
23:08 -!- TheDukh [~thedukh@2607:fcc8:ac80:d900:91d8:10ea:8743:1065] has quit []
--- Log closed Fri May 05 00:00:55 2017