--- Log opened Tue May 02 00:00:50 2017
01:10 < remoford> http://www.newschannel5.com/news/textalyzer-would-let-police-search-phone-without-warrant
01:10 < PigBot`> Title: Textalyzer Would Let Police Search Phone Without Warrant - NewsChannel 5 Nashville (at www.newschannel5.com) http://tinyurl.com/l3jap7a
01:20 < aestetix> omg
01:21 < aestetix> https://krypt.co/
01:21 < PigBot`> Couldn't snarf url: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:492: error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure. http://tinyurl.com/n4t7sgk
01:21 < aestetix> ok that's just ironic
01:21 < aestetix> "Introducing Kryptonite
01:21 < aestetix> the end of ~/.ssh/id_rsa"
02:24 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Made more adorable by the fact that the end of ~/.ssh/id_rsa is ~/.ssh/id_ed25519.
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06:43 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:45  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:47 <@Dolemite> I see you're really on my bal..., er, on the ball this morning, aestetix
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09:44 < aestetix> is reddit down?
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09:54 <@dasunt> Do I really want to store my private key on my phone?
09:54 <@Corydon76> You do if you want the phone to be able to terminate a VPN
09:55 <@Corydon76> Which private key, though?
09:55 <@Corydon76> You may not want to store a private key unprotected by a passphrase
09:55 <@dasunt> https://krypt.co/
09:55 < PigBot`> Couldn't snarf url: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:492: error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure. http://tinyurl.com/n4t7sgk
09:55 <@dasunt> That's what I'm referring to.
09:56 <@Corydon76> Looks like it's protected by a passphrase, so your private key stays safe
09:57 <@Corydon76> I would question the advisability of depending upon cloud connectivity for authentication, however
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09:58 <@Corydon76> If your network is down and you need to get in, and your ssh requires that the network is up, you're screwed
09:59 <@Corydon76> Chicken and egg.  I need to get in to fix the network, but I can't get in, because the network is down.
10:00 <@Corydon76> Or the uplink is down, whatever
10:08 < aestetix> Corydon76: reminds me of a service.... I think it was called lockitron
10:09 < aestetix> It is an app on your phone where you can tap a button on the screen and it unlocks your door
10:09 < aestetix> So what happened was a bunch of startups adopted it because it was new and cool
10:09 < aestetix> and then their servers had a major outage and everyone was locked out of their companies
10:10 <@Corydon76> This doesn't appear to use that system, but it still is of the type where you're depending upon a condition that may be fine when you test it initially and may fail when you need it the most to work
10:11 <@dasunt> I'm not comfortable with my lock being part of the IoT.
10:11 <@Corydon76> I find it most interesting that in one of their FAQs, they bring up the possibility that your workstation is compromised, but fail to consider that a phone (which is more blackboxish) may be compromised.
10:12 < aestetix> A phone can also be stolen.
10:12 < aestetix> And it's *way* more likely.
10:12 < aestetix> Nobody takes their laptop to the bar.
10:13 <@Corydon76> Yeah, but if the phone is stolen, they're unlikely to be able to break the passphrase on the private key
10:13 < aestetix> depends on how the passphrase is entered
10:13 <@Corydon76> But if someone installed a keylogger on the phone, they could nab the passphrase
10:14 <@Corydon76> Or they could add shadow software that mimics the authentication with the user none the wiser
10:15 <@Corydon76> And you're REALLY depending upon the assurance that nobody has yet learned how to compromise the core security of the phone platforms
10:16 <@Corydon76> But think of an attack scenario, even if the core security wasn't compromised.  All an attacker has to do after putting shadow software on the phone is block the normal authentication scheme.  After a little troubleshooting, the user is going to install a new private key.  Boom!  Exposed.
10:17 <@Corydon76> And that new key will continue to work "just fine" -- except that the attacker now also has access to the private key
10:18 <@dasunt> It seems silly.
10:18 <@dasunt> Silly being defined as "increasing the attack surface area".
10:19 <@Corydon76> Yep
10:36 <@dasunt> I do need to find a good remote controlled switch though, for my garage.
10:43 <@Corydon76> As opposed to simply using a standard garage door opener?
10:44 <@Corydon76> Systems are only as secure as you have people to back them up
10:44 <@Corydon76> What makes Fort Knox secure is not the thickness of the vault, but the cadre of men with guns outside
10:53 <@dasunt> Corydon76: For the lights, not the door.
10:54 <@Corydon76> Ah, heh
10:55 <@Corydon76> You're thinking you need the lights to come on when you drive in at night?
10:55 <@Corydon76> I have the same issue.... walking through a dark garage
10:57 <@dasunt> No, I just want to be able to control the outside lights without walking the 70' to the garage.
10:58 <@Corydon76> 70 feet is a problem with any wireless tech
10:58 <@dasunt> Yep.
10:58 <@Corydon76> If you make it strong enough to transmit, you're also likely to be broadcasting its presence to everybody in the neighborhood
10:59 <@dasunt> I may be able to do X10 or one of the modern equivalents.
10:59 <@Corydon76> You could just rent a DitchWitch and run a buried power/signal cable
10:59 <@dasunt> That would be much easier if there wasn't a concrete patio in the way.
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11:16 <@Corydon76> You can't route around the patio?
11:23 <@Dolemite> OSPF
11:31 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Not easily.
11:31 <@dasunt> Why the hell does search fucking suck anymore?
11:32 <@dasunt> It seems to me that a decade ago, search was okay - find terms, search for terms, results would include those terms.
11:32 <@dasunt> Now it's search for terms, search engine decides fuck you, you aren't really searching for those terms, and returns with vaguely related shit.
11:35 <@Dolemite> * sponsored
11:39 <@Corydon76> dasunt: Yes, I'd like to be able to turn that off, too
11:39 <@Corydon76> Because it's basically wasting my time
11:40 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzmMXzq-w0I
11:40 < PigBot`> Title: WATCH LIVE: United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz, other airline executives face House committee - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/km65nd6
11:40 <@dasunt> Corydon76: It's horrible when I search for a specific part, model, etc.
11:44 <@Corydon76> Yep
11:45 <@Corydon76> I think quotes fixes it, doesn't it?
11:53 <@dasunt> I try turning verbatim on.
11:59 < aestetix> wow
11:59 < aestetix> I don't know her name, but a congresswoman just suggested that they could solve the airline issues by having more women working for the airline
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12:01 <@dasunt> What airline issues specifically?
12:02 < aestetix> She didn't say.
12:02 < aestetix> It was a bunch of lipservice to "diversity" and "inclusion"
12:03 <@Corydon76> Wasn't it female stewardesses who called in the rent-a-cops in the United incident last month?
12:04 < aestetix> Corydon76: possibly
12:04 <@Corydon76> Kind of obviates the possibility that it would solve anything
12:05 < aestetix> It seems to me the way to handle this is to get the most skilled workers, regardless of gender/etc
12:05 <@dasunt> Skilled workers are harder to replace and cost more.
12:06 <@Corydon76> I don't see how that could have prevented those actions.  The problem wasn't a lack of skilled workers.  The problem was workers being put in an impossible situation
12:06 < aestetix> That too.
12:06 <@Corydon76> They were told to remove passengers without any legal way to do so
12:07 < aestetix> But they had a legal way to do so
12:07 < aestetix> offer more money
12:07 < aestetix> Although actually apparently there was a federal maximum on how much they could offer
12:07 <@Corydon76> aestetix: they weren't legally empowered to do that
12:07 < aestetix> which is bullshit
12:07 <@Corydon76> There is no federal maximum
12:08 <@Corydon76> They're allowed to offer more than $1350.  They're simply not REQUIRED to offer more than that under airline regulations
12:08 < aestetix> oh
12:08 <@dasunt> Yep, they fucked up.
12:08 < aestetix> God.
12:08 < aestetix> It's just....
12:08 < aestetix> Once you get up to like $1400 or so, someone is going to take it
12:09 <@Corydon76> Regulations say quadruple the fare up to a maximum of $1350 is what they're required to offer
12:09 <@dasunt> We could change the rules so that under airline regulations, we remove the maximum.  Which, to me, seems like the free market solution to the problem of an airline entering in contracts that it cannot fulfill.
12:09 <@Corydon76> Oh, and IN CASH
12:09 < aestetix> Yeah
12:09 <@dasunt> Yes.
12:09 < aestetix> Not fucking vouchers
12:09 <@Corydon76> But the employees were also not empowered to offer cash
12:09 <@dasunt> Lets see, Dems are for the rights of individuals, Reps are for the free market, so this should pass easily, right?  /s.
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12:10 <@Corydon76> The employees offered the maximum they were authorized to offer, which was $800
12:10 < aestetix> dasunt: tbqh the more I look into things, a lot of problems are in fact caused by government interference
12:10 < aestetix> Not to say government doesn't need to play a role
12:10 < aestetix> But maybe a more balanced role
12:11 <@Corydon76> More problems are caused by corporate greed than government interference
12:11 < aestetix> That too
12:11 < aestetix> I don't know if it's "more"
12:11 < aestetix> They both cause issues
12:11 <@Corydon76> It's more.
12:11 < aestetix> Corydon76: if you can provide evidence to back up that claim, I'd be interested
12:11 <@Corydon76> The thing is, the government only gets involved when the problem exceeds a certain threshold
12:12 < aestetix> That's totally untrue.
12:12 <@Corydon76> So 90% of the problems never even reach the level of the government caring enough to do something about them
12:12 < aestetix> Government also gets involved when someone is trying to win political points for an election, power, etc
12:12 <@dasunt> aestetix: I'm perfectly fine with regulating airlines so that if they cannot deliver on the contract they accepted money for (i.e. oversold a flight), they must come to a new agreement with an individual or individuals for a seat (e.g. offer a cash auction, no maximum).
12:13 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Report corporate malfeasance less than a million bucks, and the feds will drop your complaint in the circular file
12:13 <@Corydon76> They don't have the time or the money to deal with such small time problems
12:13 <@dasunt> Corydon76: Unless it's the IRS.  They are always interested.  :p
12:14 < aestetix> I personally know people who have been the victims of overzealous prosecutors.
12:14 <@Corydon76> The IRS doesn't care unless they think they can get at least $10k out of it, including penalties
12:14 < aestetix> Beyond that, look at patent and copyright law.
12:14 < aestetix> Beyond that, look at the surveillance drama.
12:14 <@Corydon76> Or unless it's a slam dunk that they don't need to commit an agent to investigate
12:14 < aestetix> Or the war on drugs.
12:14 <@Corydon76> As soon as they have to commit resources, they measure the benefit against the likely cost of the resources
12:15 < aestetix> It's not just the federal government.
12:15 < aestetix> The mess of the bay area is in large part because of bad local laws passed over decades
12:15 <@Corydon76> If they can't pay enough for an agent's time, they won't, because Congress has signaled to them that that's a waste of IRS resources
12:16 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Yeah, SF is a great example of where "the government that governs least governs best" fails
12:17 < aestetix> Corydon76: but most of the issues are due to NIMBY laws
12:17 < aestetix> Basically the only way to open a business in SF is to bribe someone
12:18 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Most of the issues in SF are caused by the fact that their city borders are basically hardcoded
12:18 <@Corydon76> They can't expand outward, because there's nowhere to expand to
12:18 < aestetix> uh
12:18 < aestetix> You do realize SF is not an island, right? ;)
12:18 <@Corydon76> So they're left with trying to regulate expansion against a populace that wants to keep older structures around for "character"
12:19 <@Corydon76> aestetix: The problem is that the city borders run right smack into ANOTHER city
12:19 <@Corydon76> Cities can't take over other cities
12:19 < aestetix> You'd be astonished at the insane amounts of zoning laws they have
12:20 <@Corydon76> It's not like Tennessee, where you're limited only by the shape of your surrounding county
12:20 <@Corydon76> No, I wouldn't
12:20 < aestetix> I was part of a group that tried to create a legal live-work art studio in downtown SF
12:20 <@Corydon76> I know zoning sucks.  It sucks everywhere.
12:20 < aestetix> After 7 years, the guy in charge gave up and started a startup
12:21 <@Corydon76> Mainly because cities took the general principle that you really ought to keep industrial sites away from residential areas and now subregulate residential areas to a ridiculous level
12:21 < aestetix> Does every place require you to make a perfect 3d graphic replica of the space, and then run it through computer simulations to see how it will respond to different environmental conditions, and then slap a few extra permit fees on you because they determined that in some cases, cars driving by might cause smoke to blow into the windows?
12:22 <@Corydon76> Sounds about par for any large city with empowered citizens with their own custom Citizens Rights Committees
12:22 < aestetix> haha
12:22 <@dasunt> Found this to be rather interesting read about zoning:  https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2016/11/8/lessons-learned
12:22 < PigBot`> Title: Lessons Learned — Strong Towns (at www.strongtowns.org) http://tinyurl.com/msdual3
12:22 < aestetix> Or maybe you don't read JWZ's blog aobut DNA Lounge
12:22 <@dasunt> That's in Cincinnati, btw.
12:23 < aestetix> SF is kind of a special place for completely ridiculous and useless zoning laws
12:23 <@dasunt> aestetix: Read the link I just posted.
12:23 <@Corydon76> aestetix: Seriously, though.  If citizens want to be liable for the insane amount of lawsuits they're asking for by adopting ridiculous zoning laws, fine.  Let them hike up their own taxes to pay for it all
12:24 < aestetix> so glad I'm no longer there
12:24 <@dasunt> aestetix: The guy buys a blighted home, figuring he'll expand it and rent it out.
12:24 <@dasunt> aestetix: First problem:  He can't turn it into a duplex.
12:24 <@Corydon76> In time, it'll force the hipsters out, and the conservatives who remain will gut the ridiculous laws
12:24 < aestetix> Corydon76: assuming the hipsters eventually leave
12:25 <@dasunt> aestetix: Second problem:  He can't add a second story, even though neighboring homes all have second stories.
12:25 <@Corydon76> aestetix: If they can't afford to live there, they'll eventually leave
12:26 <@Corydon76> What cities need to be able to do, though, is to de-annex blighted parts and tell those areas they're on their own in terms of city services
12:26 < aestetix> That would be great
12:26 <@Corydon76> Not that they'd necessarily do that, but the _threat_ may cause landlords to clean up their properties and eject the riffraff
12:27 <@dasunt> Doubtful - it's a race to the bottom.
12:27 <@dasunt> I see de-annexing happening in the future, but that's due to infrastructure problems, not blight.
12:27 <@Corydon76> dasunt: if you couldn't get water, sewer, electric, or garbage collection at reasonable rates, you'd move, too
12:27 <@dasunt> 1.  Landlords with blighted property just want to make a quick buck, they don't care about the long term.
12:28 <@dasunt> 2.  Tax revenue wise, blighted areas can be surprisingly efficient.
12:28 <@Corydon76> dasunt: they care if the property value is about to plummet due to loss of city services
12:29 <@Corydon76> They lose police and fire protection, too
12:29 <@dasunt> Corydon76: You'd think.  In my metro area, a landlord can get their ability to rent revoked, yet we still have slumlords (and some of them do end up no longer being able to rent).
12:29 <@Corydon76> dasunt: you mean legally
12:29 <@dasunt> Legal slumlords.
12:30 <@Corydon76> Some of them will still rent illegally
12:30 <@Corydon76> They just lose the ability to enforce payments
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12:30 <@Corydon76> Time for lunch
12:38 <@dasunt> I see de-annexation being more likely for areas we don't consider to be blighted, just because there's a lot of development that's sprawled out enough that it cannot support itself.
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13:08 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz2blreZFz0
13:08 < PigBot`> Title: LIVE: Donald Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer Press Conference 5/2/2017 Sean Spicer Press Briefing - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/mczclhp
13:08 < aestetix> they are actually going to build the wall
13:18 <@Corydon76> I support them acting out Pink Floyd's The Wall.  Each of their supporters can literally become just another brick in that wall.
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13:55 <@Mirage> And shave off their nipples
14:04 < ^020d> How much is it gonna cost?
14:08 <@dasunt> aestetix: Do you still believe what Trump says?
14:12 <@dasunt> What's the saying?  If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, bury them in bullshit?  Or something like that.  That's Trump, in a nutshell.
14:21 < K`Tetch> blind them with brilliance
14:21 < K`Tetch> alliteration
14:21 < K`Tetch> and baffle them with bullshit
14:29 <@dasunt> "bury them in bullshit" works better for Trump.
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16:13 <@dasunt> I've never heard of this before:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle
16:13 < PigBot`> Title: Landauer's principle - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/b8z9u2p
16:13 <@dasunt> (Oh look, I posted something related to cryptography)
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21:28 <@Catonic> ain't 2600 meetings this friday?
21:39 < _NSAKEY> Catonic: Yup.
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--- Log closed Wed May 03 00:00:52 2017