--- Log opened Mon Apr 24 00:00:36 2017
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05:21 < aestetix> you know
05:21 < aestetix> it's interesting
05:21 < aestetix> r/devops and r/sysadmin.... one is almost exclusively about linux, and issues with puppet/chef/ansible
05:21 < aestetix> one is almost exclusively about windows server and exchange
05:22 < aestetix> and the windows subreddit sees almost 10 times the traffic
06:35 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp76cHN2FDU
06:35 < PigBot`> Title: Mika Brzezinski Learns About Furries | msnbc - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ztwmpz3
06:48 <@Dolemite> m3h
07:01 < aestetix> hmm
07:01 < aestetix> https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/20/want-to-rescue-rural-america-bust-monopolies/
07:01 < PigBot`> Title: Want to rescue rural America? Bust monopolies. - The Washington Post (at www.washingtonpost.com) http://tinyurl.com/kyy9y9m
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08:54 <@rattle> Paying out of your own pocket for software..  What a wacky idea.  That's what jobs are for..
08:55 < xray> I don't mind paying for software that gets patches for a reasonable amount of time.
08:56 < xray> Last I used VMware you only get patches for about a year and then you have to buy it again.
08:56 < xray> And it's not cheap.
08:56 < xray> I'll admit it is very polished compared to other solutions but It's to pricey for me.
08:57 < xray> I don't even use it at work anymore.
08:59 < aestetix> well the *only* thing I find vmware useful for is games
08:59 < aestetix> and even then, it's not perfect
09:00 < xray> I don't want to play games bad enough to license VMware. I would rather build a second computer.
09:03 <@Dagmar> Just use LVM.
09:03 <@Dagmar> VMware apparently does
09:03 <@Dagmar> er KVM
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09:08 < aestetix> wow this was a real thing
09:08 < aestetix> http://gothamist.com/2016/06/16/rip_hipster_mayo.php
09:08 < PigBot`> Title: Brooklyn's Artisanal Mayo Shop Is Dead (For Now): Gothamist (at gothamist.com) http://tinyurl.com/jpsxcon
09:09 < aestetix> I saw a reference to that in a comment, I thought it was a joke
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09:15 <@rattle> I can go into a danger zone here and become the most snobbiest Manhattanite ever.  Like, power level 9000.
09:15 <@rattle> Ahem..
09:15 <@rattle> This is why I don't go to Brooklyn.
09:15 <@rattle> Thank you everyone!  Next show at 9pm..
09:18 <@Evilpig> Brooklyn had some very niche shops for sure
09:18 < aestetix> I have so many questions about that
09:19 <@Evilpig> I had been to a bourbon and grilled cheese place there
09:19 < aestetix> Why mayonaise? How did they get the money to open the shop? Why mayonaise?
09:19 < aestetix> Did they actually expect to make money off that?
09:20 < aestetix> Is there really such a huge market for overpriced novelty mayonaise that you can run a store with it?
09:24 <@Dagmar> You're going to still ask that question?
09:35 <@rattle> At least one question there has been answered.
09:36 <@rhia> aestetix,  apparently not.
09:42 < aestetix> Dagmar: they were mostly rhetorical
09:42 < aestetix> And part of it is me wishing I had throwaway money to open up a shop like that myself
09:42 < aestetix> Although I wouldn't because it's fucking stupid
09:43 < aestetix> And also... trying to figure out what would compel someone to think it's a good idea
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10:10 < ^020d> Is it just me or has there been a lot of SPAM Pos lately?
10:11 < ^020d> "Pos" should be PM's private messages
10:12 <@Evilpig> I haven't had any
11:01 <@Corydon76> The only thing I've noticed recently is that the old "Pump N Dump" stock scam has been back recently.
11:40 <@dasunt> I haven't seen that lately.
11:42 <@Corydon76> This morning's campaign seems to be the 3rd in the past several weeks to grace my spam folder
11:46 <@dasunt> I'm not sure if I'm impressed or horrified:  http://photos.bwca.com/t/TUSCARORABOREALIS-060711-085621.JPG
11:49 <@Evilpig> that would only worry me if I saw it on the interstate
11:49 <@Evilpig> backroad, meh...
11:52 <@dasunt> Kind of curious where he's driving it.  Looks like an Outfitter's canoe, so could only be a few miles or a few dozen miles down curvy dirt roads.
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16:40 <@dasunt> My fears are true:  http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/politics/democratic-party-poll/index.html
16:40 < PigBot`> Title: This poll number should scare Democrats - CNNPolitics.com (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/k3wbgdw
16:45 <@dasunt> I'd have to agree that the Democrats are more out of touch with the concerns of the average person than the Republicans.
16:47 <@dasunt> I'd even agree that the Republicans are better at verbally addressing those fears (regardless of the truth of their statements or if they back up their words with action).
16:48 <@Corydon76> I think it's rather funny, considering that Bill Clinton's candidacy in 1992 was a direct result of the  losses in the 80s at the hands of Reagan and the GOP
16:49 <@Corydon76> The goal thereof was to seek out a moderate candidate who could appeal to the center.
16:50 <@Corydon76> Because in 1984, after Carter was trounced, the Democrats actually went to the left, resulting in an even bigger trouncing in 1984.
16:51 <@Corydon76> Remember 1984, when Reagan captured 49 of the 50 states in the Electoral College?
16:51 <@dasunt> I think the Democrats could swing to the left and take the 2020 election.
16:51 <@dasunt> But that would require swinging to the left in a populist way.
16:52 <@Corydon76> I think it doesn't matter which way the Democrats swing, unless they have a election message that appeals to voters
16:52 <@dasunt> That's the problem of any candidate.  ;)  But yes, the Democrats have a major problem with convincing people to care.
16:53 <@Corydon76> It wasn't that Clinton won in 1992; it was that George Bush (Sr) lost the election with that one memorable campaign promise failure:  "Read my lips"
16:53 <@dasunt> It's almost as if the Democrats have an inability to phrase their message in such a way that connects with people.
16:54 <@Corydon76> Eh, don't sell Hillary Clinton short.  She did manage a 3M voter surplus
16:54 <@Corydon76> They were just distributed in the country in the wrong way
16:55 <@dasunt> Their campaigns come off as "you should vote for us because we're liberal", not "you should vote for us because we'll improve your lives."
16:55 <@Corydon76> dasunt: an indirection, to be sure
16:56 <@dasunt> Truth.
16:57 <@dasunt> I really hope the Democrats get their act together.  I'm not sure if I can take 8 years of Trump.
16:57 <@dasunt> I'm fearing that they'll run another milquetoast baby boomer centralist in 2020.
16:59 <@Corydon76> dasunt: why don't you run?
17:00 <@dasunt> Corydon76: I don't think I'd work as a candidate.
17:01 <@dasunt> Aspergers is a bitch.
17:02 <@dasunt> Also, I'd probably totally slip up and tell the electorate the truth sooner or later, and nobody wants to hear that.  I'm far too honest for my own good.
17:04 <@Corydon76> dasunt: it worked for Trump
17:13 < xray> so you're sold on communism/socialism as the solution to all our ptoblems?
17:13 < xray> problems
17:14 <@Corydon76> xray: I think it's funny that that's what you think Democrats are about.
17:15 <@dasunt> xray: I
17:15 <@dasunt> xray: I'm not sold as socialism as a solution to all our problems.  I do consider socialism a tool.
17:15 < xray> It amazes me you don'e see that.
17:15 < xray> Then again you probably think I like the republicans.
17:15 < xray> I don't
17:15 <@Corydon76> Democrats are about communism in the same way that Republicans are about fascism.  It's an extreme distortion of the position.
17:16 < xray> Pretty much what Hillary was preaching.
17:17 <@dasunt> I do think that socialism is a good tool to address problems such as preventing fires, enforcing the law, and educating our children.  Most people agree, even though they don't consider the fire department, police, or public schools to be socialism.
17:17 < xray> socialism is mob theft and therefor immoral.
17:17 < xray> most people are idiots
17:18 <@dasunt> What is theft?
17:18 <@Corydon76> All government is theft in some fashion
17:18 < xray> taking by force the fruit of someone else's labor.
17:18 <@Corydon76> But it beats being overrun by another government and being robbed with no say in the use of those taxes
17:18 < xray> its not yours to give away
17:19 <@dasunt> So if I don't use force, it's okay?
17:19 < xray> theft is still theft no matter how "pure" you think your motives are.
17:19 <@dasunt> We just need to take money out of people's banks accounts directly for taxes.  There's no force, ergo, there's no theft.
17:20 < xray> covetousness does not become you.
17:20 <@Corydon76> Again, it beats being occupied by a foreign force.
17:20 <@dasunt> I'll be serious and say that "taxation is theft" oversimplifies things to a ridiculous degree.
17:20 <@Corydon76> And it beats anarchy caused by internal strife
17:26 < xray> I agree
17:26 < xray> taxation is false philanthropy
17:26 < xray> strait uptheft
17:29 <@Corydon76> Again, self-determined governance, and the evils of taxation beat the alternatives.
17:31 <@Corydon76> This idea that other countries will simply leave us to our own devices without a strong Defense and a minimally supported lower class is poppycock.  We'd either end up a project of the UN or as a colony of China.  And neither would be as gracious in their taxation policies as the current government.
17:35 <@Corydon76> So you can either enjoy historically low taxes by the current government and have some semblance of say over how those tax dollars are spent... or you can be taxed by a foreign occupying power and have no say in how those tax dollars are spent.
17:37 < xray> so your logic is: Stay here and a guy in a nice suite will still your money and tell you that you have control over how it's spent (when you really don't) or go to another country where the guy wears a bad suite and doesn't lie to you and tells you that you have no control over how its spent.
17:38 < xray> in both cases they steal the money and you have no real control.
17:38 < xray> I have an idea. How about you stop stealing what isn't yours.
17:38 <@Corydon76> No, my choices are:  keep the government and enjoy that I have some say, or ditch the current government, creating a vacuum which will filled by some foreign power, and I get screwed
17:39 < xray> You only have the illusion that you have a say.
17:39 <@Corydon76> You keep assuming that no government is possible.  That's bullshit.
17:39 < xray> Not true. The original government was fine. They lost it when they invented the income tax
17:40 <@Corydon76> Fine.  I have the illusion that I have a say.  The devil I know is still better than the devil I don't.
17:40 < xray> That was the beginning of the end
17:40 <@Corydon76> xray: they didn't invent the income tax.  The states already had an income tax at that time.
17:40 < xray> I'm talking aboutt federal
17:41 <@Corydon76> What changed is that the federal government then ALSO imposed an income tax
17:41 < xray> and not all states have income tax
17:41 <@Corydon76> So it's fine when the states have an income tax, but not the federal?
17:41 < xray> Not necessarily
17:41 <@Corydon76> No, not all states.  Tennessee is one that doesn't, and they make up for it by taxing everything else.
17:41 < xray> but at least I can pick a state without one
17:42 <@Corydon76> But if all taxation is theft, which government imposing taxes isn't really all that relevant, is it?
17:43 < xray> so back to the main point. Communism/Socialism in any form is just evil.
17:43 <@Corydon76> Is it only theft if the federal government does it?  Or is equally theft if Tennessee does it?
17:43 < xray> this has been entertaining but I have work I have to get back to.
17:43 < xray> so you have something to steal
17:44 <@Corydon76> In other words, you have no point; you just like telling people that Democrats are Communists
17:45 <@Corydon76> As soon as I push your argument to the point where it becomes plain that it's ridiculous, suddenly you have work to do.
17:46 < xray> Not really, I am trying to get some work done. I just noticed that people on this list keep pushing Communism/Socialism as the solution and it's really really not.
17:47 <@Corydon76> Nobody is pushing Communism.
17:47 < xray> So let me push your point. prove that Communism/Socialism is the solution
17:47 <@Dagmar> No one's been pushing socialism either
17:47 <@Corydon76> That was never my point.
17:47 <@Dagmar> I thought we went into a fair bit of detail about "pure" systems being unhealthy, and what was required was a *mixture*
17:48 <@Corydon76> My point is that taxation is absolutely necessary for ANY government to exist, and government is absolutely necessary to prevent being overrun either from without or from within.
17:49 <@Corydon76> We can have reasonable discussion about what part is necessary to keep the government running without trying to throw out the whole system.
17:49 < xray> Yes you have you just don't know it. Which is sad
17:49 < xray> taxation is not tariffs are and they are not the same thing
17:50 <@Corydon76> No, tariffs are pure evil.
17:50 <@Dagmar> Pedantry.
17:50 <@Corydon76> Taxation at least has the advantage that it's not targeting specific trade.
17:51 <@Dagmar> Tariffs exist to limit trade imbalances.  They are not a substitute for taxation, a pool of resources for facilitating larger and more formal benefits to society
17:52 <@Dagmar> yay more undocumented alarmmanager changes
18:03 < aestetix> Corydon76: uhh.... isn't Bernie pushing socialism?
18:03 < aestetix> And all of his supporters?
18:06 <@Dagmar> No.
18:08 <@Dagmar> He's not pushing socialism any more than Roosevelt was.
18:08 <@Dagmar> Feel free to do a little research on The New Deal and what it accomplished.
18:09 <@Dagmar> Every time we've dabbled in those types of programs, the economy as a whole has flourished (not just making the ultra-rich even more ultra-rich).
18:23 < aestetix> Then why did he call himself the socialist candidate?
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18:36 <@Dagmar> To make you look stupid.
18:37 <@Dagmar> https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/471630/
18:37 < PigBot`> Title: Bernie Sanders Is a Social Democrat, Not a Democratic Socialist - The Atlantic (at www.theatlantic.com) http://tinyurl.com/gs9j33y
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 25 00:00:38 2017