--- Log opened Mon Apr 10 00:00:12 2017
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06:31 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:33  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:39 < dfused> yar
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09:21 < dfused> lol United in some deep shit
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09:23 < dfused> but I'll not be suprised if they blame and fire teh employees or claim some bs about hostility ...either way I'll be suprised if they actually take full blame for this mess
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09:33 < xray> are you talking about the guy who was forcibly removed from an overbooked flight
09:34 < dfused> aye
09:35 < aestetix> man
09:35 < aestetix> I saw that video
09:35 < aestetix> I can't believe they did that
09:36 < aestetix> this is interesting
09:36 < aestetix> apparently reddit has been removing threads about that video
09:37 < dfused> I'm seeing it already get hyped... "unruly passenger removed from flight"
09:37 < aestetix> https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/64j9x7/doctor_violently_dragged_from_overbooked_cia/dg2k8gc/
09:37 < PigBot`> Title: pandemic_region comments on Doctor violently dragged from overbooked CIA flight and dragged off the plane (at www.reddit.com) http://tinyurl.com/k99js6k
09:57 < aestetix> The only way that could have been worse is if it had been a black guy and white police
09:59 < dfused> its still a militant response to a civil issue.
10:00 < dfused> you decide to overbook becuasew you have to make sure to maximize profits.  I bought my ticket.. fuck you I'm not giving up my seat.
10:02 < dfused> so the solution is to have multiple law enforcement come in and force e from my seat, slamming my face into an arm rest busting my lip and partiually knocking me unconscious.
10:03 < dfused> what would hve totally made my day would be if multiple civilians had stood up and confronted the "cops" with "this shit is NOT OK"
10:04 < aestetix> dfused: agreed
10:05 < aestetix> I mean what united should have done is said "ok this guy doesn't wanna move, who wants to make an easy $800"
10:05 < dfused> right?
10:05 < aestetix> I hope the guy sues the shit out of united
10:06 < dfused> I'm usually against most lawsuits as they dont really salve anything except putting money in lawys pockets.  but a mass lawsuit incuding for all the kids that had to watch this crap go down, would certainly put this in the light
10:07 < aestetix> yeah those kids are gonna be traumatized
10:10 <@Dagmar> dfused: If he was in a seat, that would mean he had a seat assignment.  They're NEVER supposed to assign more than one person to a seat.
10:10 <@Dagmar> Someone at the airline fucked up _large_
10:10 < aestetix> they fucked up bigly
10:10 < dfused> apparetnyl they needed four seats for united employees to make it back to other city for flights next day
10:11 <@Dagmar> Oh holy shit someone's going to get fired
10:13 < aestetix> What I want to know is what they told the police
10:13 < aestetix> Like did they tell them an unruly passenger needed to be removed
10:13 < aestetix> Because based on what the airline said, the police would have been totally following procedure
10:14 <@Dagmar> Declining to be bumped after you've already gotten your seat is a perfectly reasonable thing to do
10:14 < aestetix> Agreed.
10:14 <@Dagmar> If they told security he was being unruly to make this happen, they're going to get their asses sued
10:15 <@Dagmar> I supposed we'll be hearing from the witnesses very soon
10:15 <@Dagmar> From what people were saying during the video, it sounds very much like someone's gonna get fiiiiiired _and_ sued
10:16 <@Dagmar> If for no other reason than he bought a ticket in good faith
10:16 < dfused> and like I said... they gonna fire the officers and place the blame completely on them
10:16 < aestetix> I love how reddit kept removing the thread because "video of police brutality" so someone created a new thread with a movie showing the same shit, and that's now on the front page
10:17 <@Dagmar> In one of the threads...  "http://tinyurl.com/k99js6k
10:17 <@Dagmar> @!#$#@
10:17 < PigBot`> Title: pandemic_region comments on Doctor violently dragged from overbooked CIA flight and dragged off the plane (at tinyurl.com) http://tinyurl.com/k99js6k
10:17 <@Dagmar> "Passengers were allowed to board the flight and once the flight was filled those on the plane were told that four people needed to give up their seats to stand-by United employees that needed to be in Louisville on Monday for a flight."
10:17 <@Dagmar> _Stand by_
10:17 <@Dagmar> That would be a violation of their own policies
10:17 <@Dagmar> "Then a manager came aboard the plane and said a computer would select four people to be taken off the flight."
10:18 <@Dagmar> There is no facility in the system for selecting people at random to be taken off a plane
10:18 <@Dagmar> Someone picked those people "at random"
10:18 <@Dagmar> That's someone who is goign to be fired
10:18 < dfused> yup
10:19 < oddball> pfft.  You have a lot more faith in upper management of airlines than I do.
10:19 <@Dagmar> Well, there's good reason I don't fly UNited
10:20 <@Dagmar> That's the fuckers who deliberately stranded me in IAD overnight
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10:20 <@oddball> Yeah.  I try my hardest to only fly Southwest... when I'm forced to fly.
10:21 <@oddball> But just about all the airlines now deliberately overbook flights.  They go with the idea that there's a certain percentage of ticket buyers that will cancel or no-show.
10:21 <@Dagmar> Key things that are making this look less bad than it is
10:22 <@Dagmar> People keep referring to this as an "overbooked" flight
10:22 <@Dagmar> People were _in seats_
10:22 <@oddball> yep
10:22 <@Dagmar> The flight is not over-booked
10:22 < aestetix> It was only overbooked because United wanted to shove their employees in
10:22 <@Dagmar> It may have been _before_ people were assigned seats and boarded, but at the point this video was taken this flight was _fully booked_ not _over-booked_
10:25 < aestetix> so this is the point when I wish posts on reddit/twitter counted as mails to congress
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10:33 <@Dolemite> Yep, they should have basically just made the last 4 that reached the gate not be able to get on board.
10:36 <@Dagmar> That's what usually freakin' happens
10:36 <@Dagmar> The people who didn't ave the sense to call ahead or go back into ua.com and get their seat assignments squared away get screwed
10:37 <@Dolemite> I mean, it sucks, but it's part of the terms of agreement
10:37 <@Dolemite> Getting dragged off the plane because you were randomly selected is NOT
10:40 < aestetix> And assaulted in the process
10:40 <@Dagmar> People are saying he apparently got away from the "security" that took him off the plane and came back to it with blood on his head and disoriented
10:40 <@Dagmar> This is going to go so badly for UA
10:44 < aestetix> going to?
10:44 < aestetix> already is
10:46 < aestetix> pretty much every major news outlet in the world is covering it
10:50 <@dasunt> Probably shouldn't have been an asshole.
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10:51 <@dasunt> I would be surprised if there were no way to get the four employees to their destination, either by using a later flight that would still allow them to arrive on time, or *gasp* actually spending money for tickets on a competitor's airline.
10:51 <@dasunt> Instead, either for convenience or as a money saving measure, UA took this course of action, and it came back to haunt them.
10:52 < aestetix> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/10/a-man-wouldnt-leave-an-overbooked-united-flight-so-he-was-dragged-off-battered-and-limp/
10:52 < PigBot`> Title: A man wouldnt leave an overbooked United flight. So he was dragged off, battered and limp. - The Washington Post (at www.washingtonpost.com) http://tinyurl.com/my9hwvv
10:52 < aestetix> this has some new details
10:54 < aestetix> It seems like nowwadays fascism doesn't come from the government, but from these corporations
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11:13 <@dasunt> Wasn't fascism about government/corporate merging?
11:27 <@Dolemite> fascism is simply extreme nationalism
11:28 <@dasunt> I'm using the historical definition, not the "I hate Nazis" definition.
11:29 <@dasunt> IIRC, Socialism was the "third way" between Communism and Capitalism.
11:29 <@Dolemite> That is the historical definition according to the homework project I was helping my son with this weekend
11:29 <@dasunt> !
11:29 <@Dolemite> We took the definition from sources that are not the textbook
11:30 <@Dolemite> http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism?s=t
11:30 < PigBot`> Title: Fascism | Define Fascism at Dictionary.com (at www.dictionary.com) http://tinyurl.com/hdv4r6l
11:31 <@Dolemite> government/corporate merging would actually be closer to the definition of communism
11:31 <@Dolemite> just not an exact match
11:31 <@dasunt> I was under the impression that communism was differnet, but I need to reread my Marx.
11:32 <@dasunt> Hmmm:  "One common definition of the term focuses on three concepts: the fascist negations (anti-liberalism, anti-communism and anti-conservatism); nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth and charismatic leadership.[2
11:33 <@Dolemite> There are state run corporations in nearly every political ideology
11:33 <@dasunt> I want to say that true communism is different, OTOH, as far as I know, the USSR viewed itself as socialist, or at least claimed to be.  The thought expressed was that through socialism they'd get communism.
11:34 <@Dolemite> Yes, USSR even had 'Socialist' in the name.
11:34 <@dasunt> OTOH, communism is such a big umbrella that you can get widely varying philosophies.  Note Lenin vs Mao's interpretation.
11:34 <@dasunt> And there's such a thing as anarchocommunism.
11:35 < aestetix> Dolemite: to me, fascism is more about unquestioning allegiance to an authority
11:36 <@Dolemite> No government has instituted a true view of any system.  Even China, which is viewed as very communist, is also extremely favorable towards capitalism.
11:36 < aestetix> Which is why I feel fine calling Facebook employees fascist.
11:36 <@Dolemite> Chinese culture is all about making deals
11:37 < aestetix> (and facebook itself)
11:37 <@dasunt> Personally, I'd say nationalism is a large part, but there's also the view that violent conflict is natural and not negative, a sort of social darwinism on the level of mass populations.  The whole violence is normal + hypernationalism makes fascism dangerous.
11:38 < aestetix> I think nationalism plays a part insofar as nationalism serves as the authority
11:39 <@dasunt> The Italian version of fascism (which I prefer to think as the original) did have the whole corporate/government hands-in-each-others-pocket thing going on.
11:39 < aestetix> so like
11:39 <@dasunt> I don't really recall Hitler's economic policies, other than he purged the socialist elements of the Nazi party after he gained power.
11:39 < aestetix> the reason I would call those security guards fascist is because they were following an order on the airplane
11:40 < aestetix> even though it was clear it was totally outrageous
11:40 <@dasunt> Why not call them authoritarian instead?
11:41 <@Dolemite> Best described as crony capitalism
11:41 < aestetix> Dolemite: you mean acting like henchmen?
11:41 <@Dolemite> Those who supported Hitler politically, he supported with resources
11:41 < aestetix> dasunt: honestly the two are fairly similar
11:41 <@dasunt> aestetix: OTOH, it could be wage slavery.
11:42 <@dasunt> What's the difference, in practice, between someone who follows an order because it comes from an authority figure, and someone who follows an order because they can't afford to lose their job?
11:42 < aestetix> Good question
11:43 < dfused> nothing when it comes to a CEO looking to dodge reponsibility for shitty policy
11:48 < aestetix> oh fun
11:48 < aestetix> https://twitter.com/united/status/851471781827420160
11:48 < PigBot`> Title: United on Twitter: "United CEO response to United Express Flight 3411. https://t.co/rF5gNIvVd0" (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/mqf4fk9
11:49 <@Dagmar> Doublespeak
11:49 <@dasunt> To be expected.  Vague statement.
11:50 < aestetix> oh man
11:50 < aestetix> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reduce-chances-getting-dragged-off-united-flight-152105288.html
11:50 < PigBot`> Title: How to reduce the chances of getting dragged off your United flight (at finance.yahoo.com) http://tinyurl.com/l2g4cl3
11:51 <@Dagmar> Worthless linkbait
11:51 < aestetix> I just thought that title was funny
11:52 <@Dagmar> It's just an article written by a douchebag trying to show off that they know something
11:52 <@Dagmar> Jibber jabber about the contract of carriage
11:52 <@Dagmar> ...which in a legal sense probably does _not_ apply, because they tend to be sticklers for language
11:52 <@Dagmar> There's a difference between being "denied boarding" and being "removed from the plane, after having already boarded"
11:52 < aestetix> well also
11:53 < aestetix> trying to logically explain why something is ok when a video everyone just saw shows it's not ok
11:53 <@Dagmar> g00s: Check Keepass
11:53 <@Dagmar> @#$@
11:53 < aestetix> lol
11:53 <@Dolemite> Dagmar: check your window :P
11:53 < dfused> i like keepass
11:54 <@Dolemite> I prefer it to online things like lastpass
11:54 < dfused> aye
11:56 <@Dagmar> Someone in #android-dev was trying to do somethign with Google Drive that keepass2android actually does
11:57 < aestetix> oh fun
11:57 < aestetix> another hack attempt
11:58 < aestetix> I love how they buy the packages of hacked ip addresses so I can't block based on ip
12:00 <@Dagmar> WHiltelist filter your shit then
12:00 < aestetix> for a public website?
12:00 < aestetix> some asshole is trying to brute force the login page
12:01 < aestetix> I can deal with it, it's just annoying
12:02 < dfused> LMFAO
12:02 < dfused> https://twitter.com/WaveyMarcelo/status/851475819885187073
12:02 < PigBot`> Title: IG: MarceloWaves on Twitter: "AYOO @united THIS YOUR TRAINING VIDEO? https://t.co/HhdT9TLODF" (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/m7uu4uk
12:02 < aestetix> https://twitter.com/search?q=United&src=tyah
12:02 < aestetix> just wow
12:02 < PigBot`> Title: News about United on Twitter (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/lcjel6z
12:06 <@dasunt> LOL:  Pepsi: I think we've had the worst PR disaster of this week for sure //  United Airlines: Hold my beer
12:06 < aestetix> I see I'm not the only one who made the Hunger Games link over the word volunteer
12:07 < dfused> dasunt: lol
12:09 <@dasunt> Ha ha:  Press release translated:   https://twitter.com/valabama/status/851476664051806209
12:09 < PigBot`> Title: Valabama on Twitter: "@united I fixed this for you! @united #unitedairlines https://t.co/BgToLV3ih7" (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/n3r5sk5
12:09 < aestetix> honestly, this is the kind of event that prompts legislation
12:09 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: What was the Pepsi PR disaster?
12:10 <@Dolemite> _NSAKEY: First of all, they used a Kardashian
12:11 <@dasunt> http://bgr.com/2017/04/10/kendall-jenner-pepsi-commercial-youtube-snl-spoof/
12:12 < aestetix> wow this is even on The Economist now
12:16 <@Dolemite> Well, I don't fly much, anymore, but United is still the airline I fly the most.  I can also tell you that as soon as they said $800, I'd be out of my seat.
12:17 < aestetix> Well that guy was out of his seat after they said $800 too ;)
12:17 < dfused> so long as its not a 800$ voucher for a ticket
12:17 <@Dolemite> Not "as soon as" though ;)
12:17 <@Dolemite> It is
12:17 < aestetix> Apparently you can argue with them to get a check
12:17 <@Dolemite> Perhaps
12:18 < dfused> all my flights are work paid... so 800$ voucher does me fuckall good.... pay me money, bitches!
12:18 <@Dolemite> But $800 will easily pay for round trip tickets for me and my wife to have a nice long weekend
12:19 <@Dolemite> Yes, all of my flights are work paid, too...   because I can't afford to fly on vacations, unless I get an $800 voucher ;)
12:19 < dfused> lol
12:20 <@dasunt> Wait, what's the voucher?  Is it only good for United?
12:21 <@Dolemite> yeah, they are airline specific
12:21 <@Dolemite> They don't give you cash
12:21 <@Dolemite> They give you an $800 credit on the airline you're getting bumped from
12:22 <@Dolemite> The main thing you have to do is make sure they issue you one without an expiration date.  They'll often try to push a 12 month limit on you.
12:22 <@dasunt> So basically, I get kicked from their flight and they won't even give me the cash needed to make other arrangements on a different flight?
12:22 <@Dolemite> No, what they do is kick you from this flight and put you on the next available.  You get $$$ credit for the inconvenience of having to wait for the next flight.
12:23 <@dasunt> Next available flight regardless of carrier, or next available flight by them?
12:23 < dfused> by them
12:23 <@Dolemite> Next by them, unless you're 'kiss my ass' status
12:23 < dfused> which could easliy mean tomorrow
12:23 <@Dolemite> They typically tell you ahead of time
12:23 <@dasunt> This is a nice little racket.
12:23 <@Dolemite> In the past 5 years, ever trip I've been on has had at least one leg overbooked
12:24 < dfused> same
12:24 <@dasunt> I don't think I've flown in the past 5 years.
12:24 <@Dolemite> s/ever/every
12:24 <@Dolemite> So yeah, I've taken the credits before
12:25 <@Dolemite> If you're nice about it, you can talk the gate agent into also giving you a pass to the premier lounge while you wait so that you can get free food and booze
12:25 < dfused> i dont.  either its on teh way there and its a work engagement, so no being late, or I'm on my way home after a coupe weeks on assigment and ...well, fuck you I wanna get home.
12:25 <@Dolemite> If you're a dick, you're welcome to sit in the seat next to the gate and sip on your $7 Starbucks
12:26 <@Dolemite> My wife and I talked about it long ago - if either of us is flying and get a good offer, we take it - but also let the other know what's going on
12:27 <@Dolemite> She often flies with me to conferences that I go on.  Some have been paid for with credit from me being bumped.
12:28 <@Dolemite> If they do bump you off the last connecting flight for the day, they will typically also give you food vouchers.  They won't give you hotel vouchers, though.  Unless you're platinum level.
12:29 < dfused> I've seen delta say they'd put you up for the night
12:29 < dfused> plus voucher etc
12:30 <@Dolemite> Not unless you're super high status
12:30 <@Dolemite> Back in the 1990s they used to.  That pretty much stopped in the 2000s.
12:32 <@Dolemite> Also, flying Delta anywhere within 3 states of Georgia means that your 'elite status' means jack shit.
12:32 <@Dolemite> Because everybody else has it
12:32 <@Dolemite> A guy here at work is Platinum level on Delta.  He gets fucked over constantly.
12:33 < dfused> lol yeah... "oh look I got bumped to 1st class....ah fuck its to SAV from ATL.... fuck n/m"
12:33 <@Dolemite> The worst airline in terms of treating their non-elite customers worse than elite customers is American Airlines.
12:34 < dfused> Delta also has good partner airlines... so when I have to flyt OCONUS I tend to get on some pretty nice airlines
12:34 <@Dolemite> A guy I was chatting with at Data Center World last week used to be one of the two site-acceptance managers for Amazon.  He had more than 700,000 butt-in-seat miles in the past 5 years.
12:35 <@Dolemite> He quit back in December.  He's just going to chill until roughly September of this year and then start consulting.
12:35 < dfused> there are times when I miss consulting.
12:36 < dfused> always new problems to figure out..... the I remember the lack of stability and threat of no paycheck if shit goes potato
12:48 <@Dolemite> Wow, according to one news article - the United folks offered $800 + Hotel Room.  Apparently it was the last flight of the day, but that also shows they went way past normal to try to get volunteers.
12:48 <@Dolemite> But yeah, the security folks handled it horribly
12:50 < _NSAKEY> I think the best part of the story is that despite beating him, he evaded the rent-a-cops and got back on board anyway. So, not only are they heavy-handed, but they aren't even good at it.
12:50 <@Dolemite>  In 2000, the data shows, 1.12 million people (or .2 percent of all travelers) were denied boarding, almost all of them voluntarily. By 2010, the figure had dropped to about 746,000. However, in 2015, after having fallen for four straight years, the number of bumps rose 15 percent to 552,000, of which 46,000 were involuntary.
12:53 <@Dolemite> This United flight was on a Sunday night, and the airline was offering people a flight that left the next day at 3 p.m. Getting bumped would have killed an entire working day.
12:55 <@Dolemite> This is definitely the best article so far -> http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/04/10/united_punished_a_passenger_for_its_own_outdated_overbooking_system.html
12:55 < PigBot`> Title: United punished a passenger for its own outdated overbooking system. (at www.slate.com) http://tinyurl.com/kaq7jja
13:39 < aestetix> ok are you serious
13:40 < aestetix> I'm reading a story about the United thing
13:40 < aestetix> and get bipped with "breaking news, shooting at an elementary school"
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16:22 <@dasunt> Google's search algorithm sometimes totally screws up.
16:23 <@dasunt> Dear Google:  Canoe paddles are not the same as kayak or paddleboard paddles.
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17:26 <@rattle> I get you're up shits creek without an algorithm.  <slaps knee>
17:26 <@rattle> *guess
17:28 <@dasunt> :p
17:33 < xray> looking for a way to load third party firmware on a Xfinity TG862G-CT.  I'm not going to connect it to cable but only use it for a wireless access point. I have googled till my fingers bled with no luck. Any ideas. If not I'm taking a screwdriver to it for salvageable parts (like the radios) before recycling it.
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20:12 <@Dagmar> xray: Typically you have to spoof a TFTP response
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22:40 < xray> If I could download the latest firmware that wouldn't be a problem. The firmware is only distributed through Comcast and can' be downloaded unless I register the modem with them. Even then, Comcast doesn't push out the latest firmware. They are as bad about that as cell phone companies are about Android patches.
22:45 < K`Tetch> have you tried talking direct to the manufacturers?
22:46 < xray> arris has a page that says I have to be an ISP. Because these devices are supposed to only be upgraded by the cable company they will not provide firmware.
22:46 < xray> I heard it uses the puma 5 shipset. I'm following up on that.
22:46 < xray> I might be able to get linux reference drivers.
22:47 < xray> There was an effort to port OpenWRT to the puma 5 chipset so I might be able to use that as a base and role my own but I'm trying to avoid that.
22:47 < xray> have insomnia due to meds so up late hacking
22:48 < K`Tetch> late? its not even midnight
22:48 < xray> That and I slept most of the previous 2 days
22:48 < K`Tetch> couldn't you fudge your position at GT into a pseudo-ISP setup
22:48 < xray> I normally get up at 04:50
22:49 < K`Tetch> I normally go to sleep at 4:50
22:49 < xray> now that I85 collapsed I may have to get up earlier.
22:49 < xray> I'm hoping not.
22:50 < K`Tetch> i love working from home
22:50 < xray> I haven't checked the fcc id yet. I may be able to get shcematics
22:52 < K`Tetch> I've spent the last 4 days working on a book, while also watching a series on youtube about UK Sherrifs
22:52 < xray> Didn't realize UK still had sherrifs
22:52 < K`Tetch> yep, "high court enforcement officers'
22:53 < xray> Although I shouldn't be suprised.
22:53 < K`Tetch> although it's privitised now
22:53 < xray> The sherrifs here also work for the cours
22:53 < K`Tetch> look for 'the sherrifs are comng' on youtube
22:54 < K`Tetch> they can basically sieze property to pay off debts under a high court writ, and do commercial property evictions
22:54 < xray> I found the sries
22:54 < xray> series
22:55 < xray> debt collectors for the high court
22:56 < xray> looks interesting
22:56 < K`Tetch> wish we had em here. Friend had the ransmission on her traiilblazer done, with a 6 month warrenty back in August, in Jan, it went again, went back to the shop to get fixed, friend got it back it lasted a week before it went again, they refused to honor their warrenty
22:56 < K`Tetch> she had to pay another $1000 to have it fixed
22:57 < xray> Maybe there is someone here, I just have never heard of them.
22:57 < K`Tetch> nope
22:57 < K`Tetch> you can just file liens, after a small claims court victory
23:16 <@Dagmar> xray: There might be firmwares on some of the "uncapper" forums
23:16 <@Dagmar> Or, you could just hit up a Goodwill
23:17 <@Dagmar> THe one in my neighborhood has like five different APs for sale for under $20 each
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23:24 < xray> I got one of these new in the box for free. I was thinking of using for portable netkoth
23:25 < xray> Apparently they are worthless because there is no third party firmware and you can't get firmware updates from the manufacturer of ISP.
23:25 < xray> Since I already have one. It is Challenge Accepted.
23:41 < xray> oohhh paydirt (maybe) - https://github.com/bmaia/cross-utils/tree/master/armeb/puma5_toolchain
23:41 < PigBot`> Title: cross-utils/armeb/puma5_toolchain at master · bmaia/cross-utils · GitHub (at github.com) http://tinyurl.com/khpcmfx
23:42 < xray> I really need to pop the cover on this puppy
--- Log closed Tue Apr 11 00:00:14 2017