--- Log opened Mon Mar 27 00:00:48 2017
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05:13 < aestetix> I'm just catching up on pizzagate
05:13 < aestetix> this is unreal
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07:14 <@Evilpig> wtf is pizzagate?
07:14 < dfused> where Pizza the Hut got caught colluding with the russians
07:21 <@Evilpig> damn russians.  out to get cabbage into everything
07:22 <@Evilpig> cabbage stuffed crust pizza sounds disgusting.
07:35 < dfused> bleh
07:50 < aestetix> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory
07:50 < PigBot> Title: Pizzagate conspiracy theory - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/z38z5zh
07:51 < aestetix> Basically, some alt-right nutjobs created a conspiracy theory about a sex trafficing ring for Hillary clinton going through a pizza place I guess in DC
07:51 < aestetix> And they thought that there were secret codewords in the leaked John Podesta emails
07:51 < aestetix> The pizza place got all kinds of crazy threats, and it all ended with some nutjob showing up with a gun and shooting up the place
07:52 < aestetix> There are so many wtf points in this story
07:53 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
07:53  * aestetix gives Dolemite a slice of pizza
07:53 < dfused> yar
07:53 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: You seriously did not know what Pizzagate was?
07:54 <@Dolemite> You definitely need to wear your tin foil hat more often
07:56 < aestetix> so this is one of the problems with all these cries against the police
07:56 < aestetix> It reminds me of when reddit "solved" the Boston Marathom bombing case
07:57 < aestetix> Some things are better left in the hands of professionals. And like them or dislike them, police are professionals and answer to the government
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08:03 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: I am very insulated from internet news and regular "news" source these days.  there isn't anything good in any of them
08:04 < aestetix> Evilpig: it's sort of like watching Breaking Bad
08:06 <@Evilpig> Breaking Bad was entertaining. the stuff that passes for news is just pathetic.
08:18 < aestetix> https://www.apnews.com/fa4528580f3e4a01bb68bcb272f1f0f8/AP-Exclusive:-'Bathroom-bill'-to-cost-North-Carolina-$3.76B
08:18 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: Unknown host.. http://tinyurl.com/lv83sh3
08:20 < aestetix> It's interesting that the same companies that have taken up economic arms over the bathroom bill have been silent on the health care reform
08:20 < aestetix> And also opponents to the h1b reforms that would raise the amount of money they'd have to pay workers
08:21 < aestetix> Both issues I imagine affect a lot more people than the bathroom nonsense
08:23 < aestetix> that's interesting
08:24 < aestetix> according to a reddit comment, the most exalted of sources, apparently this law was passed in response to a democratic city ordinance demanding people be able to use whatever bathroom they want
08:24 < aestetix> I wonder why I never heard about this part
08:26 <@Corydon76> Because justifications for bigotry are seldom the reason for bigotry
08:27 < aestetix> Corydon76: I'm not taking a side, I'm just wondering why I have never gotten the full story
08:28 <@Corydon76> Dunno, I heard about that justification initially
08:28 < aestetix> Well it does answer a question I'd been wondering about
08:28 < aestetix> "Why the hell would republicans pass such a nonsense law about bathrooms"
08:28 <@Corydon76> The funny thing was that the city offered to rescind its ordinance if the state would resciend the law.  The state legislature was unable to do so... mainly because it was never about the ordinance in the first place
08:28 < aestetix> I thought they were doing it to troll the democrats
08:30 <@Corydon76> More specifically, the city of Charlotte actually did rescind the ordinance, but it was only temporary unless the state rescinded the bill.  The state legislators instead tried to amend their law, not repealing the whole darn thing, and they failed
08:30 < aestetix> And now they are stuck with a mess
08:30 <@Corydon76> And so the ordinance went right back on the books
08:31 <@Corydon76> They're stuck until the people get fed up with the mess and elect a legislature willing to deal with it
08:31 < aestetix> That could be a while.
08:32 <@Corydon76> Under 2 years
08:32 < aestetix> So it's two years of endless headlines about bathroom politics
08:33 <@Corydon76> No, just 20 months of North Carolina suffering economically as nationally relevant organization take their business elsewhere
08:34 < aestetix> And the national conscious is focused on this nonsense while actual issues are going on.
08:34 <@Corydon76> Tennessee is suffering the same fate, because they amended their professional counselors law to let counselors refuse to treat patients due to some moral compunction, instead of the previous standard, which mandated care to the best interests of the patient
08:34 < aestetix> I'm not a big fan of stories that allow an evil corporation like Paypal to claim a moral high ground while they work to fuck over their employees with awful visa processes
08:35 <@Corydon76> I've already suggested a solution to that:  tie the minimum wage of H1B holders to twice the median wage of the state in which they're employed.
08:35 < aestetix> Uh..... isn't part of being a professional being dispassionate?
08:35 <@Corydon76> That'll push more companies into areas beyond California
08:36 <@Corydon76> And ensure employees are actually paid a decent working wage without pushing out Americans
08:36 <@Corydon76> Right now, the minimum wage for H1B is $60k which is poverty wage in Silicon Valley
08:36 < aestetix> Below
08:36 <@Corydon76> But $60k would go far in Mississippi
08:36 < aestetix> The last I saw, poverty wage is around $70k
08:37 < aestetix> Corydon76: that only works if they also raise the h1b cap
08:37 <@Corydon76> Even for Mississippi, it would push the minimum wage for H1B to $70k
08:37 < aestetix> And will only work for large corporations that don't care about being near investors.
08:38 <@Corydon76> I'm fine with raising the cap, if they also raise the minimum wage to a level at which foreign workers don't displace American workers
08:38 < aestetix> And then you also have inflation issues
08:38 <@Corydon76> Who says companies only need to run a single office?
08:39 <@Corydon76> You can put the CEO in Silicon Valley and put the majority of your tech workers in Tennessee or another low wage state
08:39 <@Corydon76> Eventbrite, Lyft, and several other companies already do that
08:39 <@Corydon76> We have actual development going on for Eventbrite in Nashville
08:39 < aestetix> Doesn't that depend on the purchasing power of people in the area?
08:40 < aestetix> IE it makes more sense to open a company in SF than in Nashville because you can make 3x the money
08:40 < aestetix> Because everyone at least in theory has more money
08:40 <@Corydon76> Yeah, at 4 times the cost of living
08:41 <@brimstone> "in theory"
08:42 < aestetix> I think Corydon76 has a good proposal for how things could work. I just don't think it will actually happen. Especailly now that so many places are hostile to remote work, while also not wanting to support offices in multiple cities
08:42 <@Corydon76> Plus, it does something else I'm keen on:  it spreads young, affluent moderates into deep Red states and may turn the state purple over time
08:42 < aestetix> What's more likely is that it will drive companies out of the US
08:43 <@rattle> The number of companies that _don't_ maintain multiple geographic offices is dwindling.  I have trouble thinking of any partner I have that has more than 40 people and isn't in at least two regions.
08:43 < aestetix> Those two regions being NY and SF?
08:44 <@rattle> NOVA and Boston are huge.
08:44 <@Corydon76> If we could be successful at making California less Deep Blue and make Tennessee and Georgia purple states, there's a lot of extremist politicians who won't have a national leadership future in this country
08:44 < aestetix> Corydon76: that would be nice.
08:44 < aestetix> I would be equally happy if california just seceded from the US ;)
08:45 <@Corydon76> Of course, that would also disempower extremists on the other end of the spectrum, like Bernie Sanders
08:45 < aestetix> Which I'm also in favor of. I do not like Bernie.
08:45 <@Corydon76> California is a sixth of the US economy.  Even if California wanted to, the rest of the US would go to war to prevent that from happening
08:46 < dfused> I just want more companies to support remote work capability
08:46 < aestetix> Which is precisely my point. I'd love to see a bloodbath there ;)
08:46 <@Corydon76> It's also heavily unlikely for California to split into 6 states.  The rest of the country doesn't want to dilute their Senatorial power
08:47 < aestetix> I can't even talk to anyone in California anymore.
08:47 <@Corydon76> You know the majority of such a war would likely be fought in Nevada, right?
08:49 < dfused> its ok if NV glows in teh dark
08:49 < aestetix> Maybe after a year or so of actual war and I wouldn't have to hear about microaggressions anymore
08:49 <@Corydon76> In fact, Nevada might join the secessionists, given how much of THEIR economy is driven by California
08:49 <@Corydon76> Reno is a lovely city, but it would be a podunk town if it weren't right across the border from California
08:50 < dfused> dont forget water dependencies as well
08:51 <@Corydon76> Billions of dollars pass through Reno, because distribution companies set up there, so they can be within a day's journey to all of California without having to pay their business taxes
08:52 <@Corydon76> When East Coast companies want to set up West Coast distribution, there isn't even a question of where to go:  Reno is the anwer.
08:57 < aestetix> so what are the chances of the US getting a little less extreme
08:58 <@Corydon76> You're asking a statistical question; I can't answer that.
08:58 < aestetix> but it is possile?
08:58 <@brimstone> i can
08:58 < aestetix> possible?
08:58 <@brimstone> 46%
08:59 <@Corydon76> Rephrase:  I can't accurately answer that.
08:59 < aestetix> because from afar it looks like a room full of rabid dogs, and all someone needs to do is drop in a piece of meat
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09:01 <@Corydon76> The US is already not terribly extreme.  All you need to do is look at the popular vote in the 2016 general election.  The problem isn't that we're extreme.  The problem is that we're badly balanced in representation
09:02 < aestetix> You mean the establishment sellout shill who took in 3 million more votes due to population booms on the coasts?
09:02 <@Corydon76> And since the states aren't going to fix that, because it would disempower a number of states which currently have a lot of power in the system, the only way to fix that is to attract people to other areas to rebalance the representation
09:02 <@Corydon76> i.e. move people out of California
09:03 < aestetix> This I would agree with
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09:04 <@Corydon76> Last election, you had someone who was 10% evil and someone who was 90% evil, and the campaign team of the 90% candidate made it seem like the 10% candidate was equally evil
09:06 < aestetix> I think it was a *lot* closer to 60/40 there
09:07 <@Dolemite> 75/25
09:07 <@Dolemite> wait, no
09:07 <@Dolemite> 99%/25%
09:07 < aestetix> haha
09:07 <@Dolemite> The fallacy is in thinking that the two candidates needed to combine to equal 100%
09:08 < aestetix> Basically there was nobody worth voting for.
09:08 <@Dolemite> Steaming pile of shit or frosty turd sandwich
09:08 < dfused> nobody.
09:09 <@Mirage> Dolemite: Damnit, now I wanna watch that South Park episode again.
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09:13 < aestetix> Then again
09:13 < aestetix> Wednesday is gonna bring a whole new set of fun
09:16 < aestetix> Is the US covering the brexit at all?
09:18 < dfused> who is brexit?   next tennis winner?
09:18 < aestetix> har har
09:24 <@Corydon76> aestetix: we're vaguely aware of it, but since it affects the economics of trading with us exactly zilch, few people here care.
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10:04  * K`Tetch is so pissed at the whole brexit thing
10:14 < aestetix> K`Tetch: because it means the eventual destruction of the UK?
10:15 <@Mirage> So long as someone continues making Doctor Who that'd be ok.  =P
10:16 <@Dolemite> Speaking of which, I believe we only have about a month left until the new season
10:16 <@Dolemite> or as those UK folks call it, new series
10:16 <@Mirage> I looked it up, but I forget when it was.
10:17 <@Mirage> Dolemite: you sitting down?
10:18 <@Mirage> Dolemite: My Z is in the body shop right now getting the bodywork fixed and painted.
10:18 <@Dolemite> Ack!
10:18 <@Dolemite> I'm comin' Elizabeth!   It's the big one!
10:18  * Dolemite clutches his chest
10:19 < K`Tetch> yes aestetix
10:19 <@Mirage> I'm ahead of the curve on it.   Windshield was cracked when I got it ~23y ago, and that got replaced 3 years ago..so took 20 years.
10:20 <@Mirage> It's only needed paint for about 16 years
10:20 < aestetix> K`Tetch: it'll be fun to see what happens in France
10:23 < K`Tetch> with le pen?
10:24 < aestetix> yes
10:25 < K`Tetch> yeah... le sigh
10:26 < K`Tetch> in related news, my most poular tweet EVER rips into my representative - https://twitter.com/ktetch/status/845772198195445760
10:26 < K`Tetch> well, he might be my representative, or might be lynn '10 commandments' westmoreland
10:27 < K`Tetch> he was my rep in jasper county, but he only covers half of upson
10:27 < aestetix> is that the guy who couldn't recite any of them?
10:37 <@Evilpig> Mirage: I could have used your help this weekend as I was attempting to change out plug wires in the white truck.  those damned clips had me ready to kill
10:39 <@Mirage> which clips?  were the wires stuck on the plugs?
10:40 <@Evilpig> yeah wires were stuck to the plugs too
10:40 <@Mirage> Or is your that has the electronic module instead of a distributor.  Those can be tricky sometimes.  Nephew's Jetta was a pain in the ass to get them changed on.
10:40 <@Evilpig> the clips that route around the block
10:41 <@Evilpig> I got the ignition coil change out fine.  still had cylinder 6 misfiring so I figured might as well do plugs and wires, was just starting with wires and said fuck it.  time to get someone else to get in there with the right tools to get those out
10:41 <@Evilpig> did get at least hte wire to 6 changed
10:47 <@Mirage> 1,3,5 aren't too bad on the Z, but 2,4,6 are a bitch because there's so much stuff in the way and the wires have to be routed around the fuel injection and under the throttle body.
10:48 <@Mirage> my pickup being a 4x4 is easy being raised slightly..just reach in through the fender well
11:05 <@Mirage> Looking back at that sentence I apparently need to stop trying to multi-task before I finish my first pot of coffee
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12:56 < K`Tetch> 11:40:11 «@Mirage» Or is your that has the electronic module instead of a distributor. Those can be tricky sometimes. Nephew's Jetta was a pain in the ass to get them changed on. <-- Friend who "knows cars, especially saturns"told me he knew how to take one of those off on my 03 LW300, he snapped the thing in two getting it off - he had to buy me a new one
13:00 < K`Tetch> and yes aestetix, thats the one that couldn't name any
14:51 < K`Tetch> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170326/01045137004/court-says-posting-georgias-official-annotated-laws-is-not-fair-use-thus-infringing.shtml
14:51 < PigBot> Title: Court Says Posting Georgias Official Annotated Laws Is Not Fair Use, And Thus Infringing | Techdirt (at www.techdirt.com) http://tinyurl.com/kz8v9af
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15:22 <@Dagmar> That's going to be a problem until it's overturned.
15:23 <@rattle> There's no way Carl is going to give an inch.  He'll eventually win.
15:32 <@Dagmar> The argument about "profit" is laughable
15:32 <@Dagmar> By that interpretation just about any and all non-profits that don't fail and sink immediately are also "profiting"
15:35 < K`Tetch> indeed
15:35 < K`Tetch> and carl is appealing
15:35 <@Dagmar> Carl
15:35 <@Dagmar> is going to win eventually, because of the relationship the state has set up with respect to annotations
15:36 <@Dagmar> If the law _annotated_ is the law that is in effect, it is therefore a work of the gov't and will be PD
15:36 < K`Tetch> oh yeah. for the last year, I've been taking photos any time i see 'OCGA' in an official setting, because it establishes more and more its substantive government nature
15:37 < K`Tetch> things like the seed permits at biglots etc.
15:38 <@Dagmar> The gov't itself has bound the law and it's annotations together, irrevocably.
15:38 <@Dagmar> That's their mistake, not Carl's
15:38 <@Dagmar> They can't hand something that is by default PD back to a private org as a copyrightable asset
15:39 <@Dagmar> That's not how public domain works.
15:39 < K`Tetch> ah, bu they're not
15:40 <@Dagmar> It is the moment the copyright is assigned back to the state of GA
15:40 < K`Tetch> they're claiming the public domain laws (OCG) AND the various data points and contexts (court rulings, etc,.) is public, but putting the latter ontot he former is what LN did and thats what they copyrighted
15:41 <@Dagmar> But they assign this back to GA
15:42 <@Dagmar> Also, being that these are _facts_ and neither a creative work nor even a statement of opinion is part of the reason they're not copyrightable
15:43 <@Dagmar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Federal_and_state_laws_are_not_copyrighted
15:43 < PigBot> Title: Copyright law of the United States - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/ktv846d
15:43 < K`Tetch> the facts are not copyrightable, but the 'work in doign the annotating to reference those facts' is, according to the judge
15:43 < K`Tetch> yeah, its really fuckign stupid,
15:43 <@Dagmar> The "work" isnt' producing anything but facts
15:44 <@Dagmar> LN's use is not transformative
15:44 <@Dagmar> By it's very nature it can't be
15:44 < K`Tetch> you're preaching to the choir here
15:44 <@Dagmar> ...and again, they transfer the "copyright" back to the state
15:44 <@Dagmar> So, LN doesn't own a copyright on it, and the state _can't_.
15:45 < K`Tetch> plus, when I did the 'write in laws' just before the election, I noted quite clearly there, that LN could FOAD
15:45 < K`Tetch> state can
15:45 <@Dagmar> They're trying to backdoor copyright law by having a third party "create" this text and then assign it back to the state
15:45 < K`Tetch> states can hold external copyrights that have been transfered to them
15:46 <@Dagmar> Hilariously, it's a Georgia court precedent that established this
15:46 <@Dagmar> "The citizens are the authors of the law, and therefore its owners, regardless of who actually drafts the provisions, because the law derives its authority from the consent of the public, expressed through the democratic process"
15:46 <@Dagmar> State of GA vs Harrison County, 1982
15:46 < K`Tetch> correct, OCG is not copyrighted,
15:47 <@Dagmar> The annotations are merely a compilation of public record and as such are merely facts
15:47 <@Dagmar> Lists of facts are not copyrightable
15:47 <@Dagmar> If they had skin in the game, i.e., LN was producing _editorials_ they might have a leg to stand on
15:49 <@Dagmar> LN has enough value-add that they should be telling the state to fuck off and stop wasting time with this
15:49 <@Dagmar> They have the resources to actually pile on a whole host of additional services with their copies of the information
15:50 <@Dagmar> All it's going to accomplish is creating enmity
15:50 <@Dagmar> This is probably not the wisest of moves in a climate inexorably creeping towards "Let's burn shit"
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18:49 < aestetix> wooho
18:49 < aestetix> I finally got an answer from YC as to why they funded the ACLU
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 28 00:00:50 2017