--- Log opened Wed Mar 01 00:00:05 2017
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00:03 < _NSAKEY> I'm pretty sure they never evolved beyond that.
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03:50 < aestetix> I'm watching the SOTU
03:50 < aestetix> it's like a mirror of obama
03:51 < aestetix> one side stands and claps, the other side is silent
03:51 < aestetix> it's just flipped now
04:14 < aestetix> here is why I don't like the democrats
04:14 < aestetix> trump is basically announcing all these things that they want
04:14 < aestetix> and none of them seem happy
05:44 < aestetix> just finished watching
05:44 < aestetix> I'm impressed
05:56 < aestetix> he got through an entire speech without saying "fake news"
05:57 < xray> sorry that sounds fake :)
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06:20 <@rattle> He did manage to make it through without doing much of his typically repulsive crap.  The most notable thing to me was the lack of substance.
06:21 < _NSAKEY> Trump? Lack of substance? No...
06:21 < _NSAKEY> Say it isn't so!
06:21 < aestetix> To be fair, Trump is not the only politician guilty of a lack of substance
06:21 < xray> politician == lack of substance
06:21 < xray> did you expect something different
06:23 <@rattle> I watch _all_ these addresses.  One of the things I like about them, is they really say more about the time than the person.  This one is notably thin compared to, oh, the past 20 or so years of these..
06:23 < aestetix> But he made sure to say "radical islamic terrorists"
06:24 <@rattle> I think that was that phrase's last roar.  The whole natsec community _still_ wants that term to die.
06:24 <@rattle> It's silly really..  Very silly.
06:25 <@rattle> The whole reason no one likes that term is how it translates.
06:25 < aestetix> how does it translate?
06:26 < xray> islamic believer scared into a state of ionization?
06:26 <@rattle> Roughly, "devout muslim"..  Just a quirk in translation.  Unavoidable.
06:27 < aestetix> What is a better phrase to use?
06:27 <@rattle> Terrorist.
06:27 < aestetix> yeah but that might include an American
06:28 <@rattle> In all seriousness, sometimes the words matter.  Using radical just doesn't translate well.
06:29 <@rattle> Doing things like calling ISIS daesh works out really well.
06:29 < _NSAKEY> rattle: I always wondered why they didn't do that, instead settling on "ISIL."
06:29 < _NSAKEY> Give them the disrespect they deserve.
06:30 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:33 < aestetix> so basically
06:33 < aestetix> Trump is the businessman equivalent of an arrogant engineer who thinks that because he knows how to code, he can also do things like run a restaurant
06:33 < aestetix> And then his first week of managing the restaurant is so bad that all the wait-staff quits
06:34 < xray> But in this case is that such a bad thing?
06:34 < aestetix> "computers do what I tell them do. why won't my employees?"
06:34 < _NSAKEY> Add something like, "And in the first month, the cooks started snitching on him to the health department" and I think the analogy is close to 1:1.
06:35 < aestetix> I will admit I would pay a lot of money to watch an episode of the apprentice where Trump tells most of congress they are fired
06:38 <@rattle> The ISIS vs ISIL thing was just habit following the first name assigned by the intel folks.  Was the same thing with UBL sticking around.  Not larger thing behind it..
06:38 < aestetix> heh
06:38 < _NSAKEY> That actually makes sense.
06:39 < aestetix> I remember post-9/11 when all the newscasters were confused whether to say Osama or Usama
06:39 <@rattle> That's actually the truth.  You see it all the time in different ways.  The intel community is usually used to referring to things by whatever name they come up with for it, and that's usually around a long time before the media and general public assign a name to it.
06:43 < aestetix> hah, just found this reddit thread
06:43 < aestetix> https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/5wqrsm/does_anyone_here_watch_pbss_frontline_difference/
06:43 < PigBot> Title: Does anyone here watch PBS's Frontline? Difference between this and the typical news coverage today is amazing : television (at www.reddit.com) http://tinyurl.com/hk2wf4t
06:43 < aestetix> seems I am not the only one who has turned to PBS Newshour exclusively for news
06:43 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Old news, but at least it's not fake news.
06:43 < aestetix> because CNN/WAPO/NYTIMES have all turned into tabloids
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06:59 <@Dolemite> aestetix: Where's my hug, bitch?
06:59 < xray> On Amazon AWS
07:00 < aestetix> ^
07:00 <@Dolemite> I see how it is
07:00 <@Dolemite> Not worth having geographic diversity
07:00 < aestetix> xray: the worst part is it was cached in cloudfront, so we all have to wait another day for the cache to be cleaned up
07:00 < xray> yeah it was ugly
07:01 < _NSAKEY> I'm so glad I work the weird hours that I do, and don't have to deal with or care about the AWS thing.
07:01  * dfused gives Dolemite an awkwardly long hug to make him feel better....
07:01 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: or work with a system that was designed without considering s3 might go down
07:02 < _NSAKEY> I mean, it still affects me to the extent that sites I visit use AWS, but that's a surprisingly small number.
07:02 < aestetix> How long was aws out due to the power outage a few years back?
07:02 < _NSAKEY> I just don't have to deal with the AWS outage from a work standpoint, and that makes me especially glad that this was a 4 day "weekend."
07:03 <@Dolemite> dfused: It's not the hug that makes me feel better, it's being able to bitch at aestetix for giving it to me without asking.
07:03 < aestetix> Dolemite: oh come on you know you want it
07:03 < aestetix> take it like a big boy
07:03 <@Dolemite> See?  There he goes with his WHITE PRIV attitude.
07:03 < dfused> lol
07:03  * Dolemite gets all identity politics on aestetix
07:03 <@Dolemite> Or should I say...   CIStetix
07:04 < aestetix> so that's why the company is called Cisco
07:05 < xray> I'm not so sure. Don't all the ports on their devices auto sense polarity?
07:05 < xray> There's a technical name for it but I can't think of it at the moment.
07:05 <@Dolemite> MDI
07:05 < xray> So you don't have to use a crossover cable
07:05 <@Dolemite> MALE DOMINANT INTERFACE
07:06 < xray> Yeah
07:06 < xray> LoL
07:07 < dfused> giggity
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07:20 < aestetix> man
07:20 < aestetix> if you assume reddit is representative of the general public
07:20 < aestetix> 90% of the population is atheist, and a bunch of other nasty things
07:21 < aestetix> and by atheist I mean the kind that throw rocks through the window of churchs
07:22 < dfused> religiong needs to go away
07:23 < aestetix> dfused: and richard dawkins needs to stfu
07:23 < aestetix> he's annoying
07:23 < dfused> arrogant true.
07:24 < dfused> but who else to combat the ultra religous nutjobs
07:24 < aestetix> well
07:24 < dfused> ....besides firing squads
07:24 < aestetix> I'm hoping that sam harris and jordan peterson resume their debate
07:24 < aestetix> they had a podcast where they argued for 2 hours about the meaning of truth
07:26 < aestetix> I suspect if richard dawkins and jordan peterson debated, dawkins would fall apart
07:27 < aestetix> because dawkins entire atheism dogma is based upon a straw man fallacy
07:27 < dfused> i dont know.... pretty smart dude
07:27 < aestetix> dawkins is a smart scientist, but not a smart philosopher
07:28 < dfused> cant argue that.  but I think he's trying to bring the science into the arguement more than the "philosophy"
07:28 < aestetix> the problem is that it doesn't belong there
07:28 < aestetix> thus the issue of that podcast over the nature of "truth"
07:29 < aestetix> sam harris argues that the creation story of genesis is not historical
07:29 < dfused> meh.... not gonna argue "philosophisze" (sp) over whos the better speaker.
07:29 < aestetix> and only a fucking fundamentalist idiotic bible thumper would argue against that
07:31 < dfused> my only thoughts on the matter are that if we dont get away from the "everything is cause of the great sky ghost" and my ghost is better than your ghost......we're fucked and its only a matter of time before we run ourselves back to the stone age
07:31 < aestetix> the "great sky ghost" crap is the straw man
07:32 < aestetix> ala "magical sky friends" which is equally as ridiculous
07:33 < aestetix> however, here is the issue
07:34 < aestetix> if you ask dawkins what would make him believe in a god, whatever "god" might be, he has no good answer
07:34 < aestetix> which I consider just as fundamentalist as the "magical sky friends" crap
07:35 < aestetix> he just likes to be opposed to things
07:36 < aestetix> maybe the moral here is to read reddit less
07:38 < dfused> well yeah... reddit is a bit of a train wreck.  and I wouldnt assume that its reflective of the larger majorities of humanity
07:38 < aestetix> basically there is this feedback loop
07:38 < aestetix> richard dawkins puts out some absurdity, a bunch of neckbeard "atheists" read it, and then carry that anger to reddit
07:39 < aestetix> and then I'll be reading some discussion where someone accidentally uses a word like "pray" and suddenly there is an onslaught of "omg atheism"
07:40 < dfused> I think if children were not allowed to be taught that aspecific religion model was the only correct one and that broad strokes of all religions was taught instead; alongside with science (criticial thinking) then religion was fall apart very quickly
07:41 < dfused> s/was/would
07:41 < aestetix> well given that dawkins sucks at critical thinking, I don't think it's exclusive to science ;)
07:41 < dfused> heh
07:41 < _NSAKEY> dfused: Good luck convincing the fundies on either side of that.
07:41 < aestetix> and yea, being taught a bunch of ideas is always good
07:43 < dfused> _NSAKEY: well I know.... its like saying "if only I could afford 100000 lottery tickets, I could likely win the lottery" ...or something... (got a damn minor hangover)
07:44 < aestetix> what's interesting is that the neckbeard atheists also tend to be socialist or communist
07:44 < aestetix> I think it's a breed that american universities have been shitting out lately
07:45 < aestetix> Most academics I meet these days are the most arrogant closed minded assholes
07:46 < dfused> whats fun is when I get attacked when I say that capitalism is crushing this country currently and needs to be readjusted.... and I get hit with "you're one of those socialists!" ... which is not true.  though I do like the idea of free medical and/or schoool
07:47 < dfused> but then against... I live in the "ya'll reckon " south... so my abiliity for decents discussions on much of anything are limited.
07:47 < dfused> trump is gonna solve everything, god a great, obama was a damn muslim, all muslims are terrorists.... -sigh-
07:48 < aestetix> and I live in a former communist country, heh
07:48 < dfused> lol
07:48 < dfused> yeah go back to forcing children into uniforms
07:49 < aestetix> what's interesting is that people who grew up in a communist and atheist country (GDR) are way less angry and vocally atheist than american college grads
07:49 < aestetix> here everyone is like "do your own thing, be respectful of others"
07:50 < dfused> thats cause there is less to battle against.
07:51 < aestetix> well yes
07:51 < dfused> if all the people arond you are all thinking religion is bogus, then what sto argue?  ...when the majority still is wrapped up in god, then much more to fight against.
07:51 < aestetix> germany had a period of being really angry, and we all know how that ended
07:51 < aestetix> I never said religion is bogus, I said that the straw man crap dawkins and reddit argue against is bogus
07:51 < dfused> twice
07:52 < aestetix> IE magical sky friends
07:52 < dfused> didint say you said.
07:52 < aestetix> although I kind of wish they were there, it would be cool to see crazy shit flying around lol
07:52 < dfused> ....damn dragons would be a pain in the ass if they were real though
07:55 < aestetix> maybe you can make some money selling dragon spray to the fundamentalists
07:56 < dfused> but reddit.  hrm.. I mean even if you go to netsec you can get tied up in toxic shit.  same thing socially.. people can shit post without too much recourse
07:57 < aestetix> I wonder how much of /r/atheism is populated by neckbeards watching anime with a bag cheetos in one hand and a my little pony doll in the other
07:57 < dfused> sooo....on another note.   whats more worthy.  RHCE or LPI
07:57 < aestetix> what's LPI
07:58 < dfused> lol
07:59 <@Dagmar> Case closed
07:59 < dfused> werd
07:59 < aestetix> linux professional something?
08:00 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Basically, yeah. If you get it, CompTIA's Linux+, or some other cert, you can automatically get the other two just by filling out a form.
08:00 < aestetix> so it's like the A+ for linux
08:01 < dfused> thinkning of diving in for oscp as well ... why the hell not.
08:01 < dfused> to hell with the giac stuff
08:01 < _NSAKEY> Except CompTIA actually makes people renew now. Anyone who got their certs before a few years ago got grandfathered in.
08:01 < dfused> yeha but gov changed that they only recognize the new CE certs that have to be renewed
08:02 < dfused> 8570 compliance stuff
08:02 < _NSAKEY> dfused: Not surprising. I grabbed a slightly used copy of the current edition of the Network+ book and was grossed out by the sheer amount of ink wasted on shit nobody uses.
08:02 < dfused> lol
08:02 < dfused> right?
08:03 < dfused> a freind was asking about security+ and is it hard, I just laughed. ..
08:05 < _NSAKEY> Unless you're in a position where you're maintaining vintage hardware for a specific purpose, like an insanely expensive piece of equipment, there's absolutely no reason for anyone coming into the field to really know as much about 10 Mbit ethernet and everything associated with it.
08:06 < _NSAKEY> And the sheer number of sidenotes that read like, "The exam looks for this thing, but the exam's terminology is actually wrong" is just mind-boggling.
08:07 < dfused> A+ is the same way.
08:08 < aestetix> you know
08:08 < aestetix> if everyone remembered all the little flags and so on
08:08 < aestetix> there would be no such thing as manfiles
08:09 < dfused> shit.... some commands there are just waaaaay too many damn flags to remember.
08:09 < _NSAKEY> dfused: Not surprising. As someone who used to read old editions of Upgrading and Repairing PCs to gain historical perspective, I have no desire to get a less well-written version of that in an A+ exam guide.
08:09 < aestetix> for example
08:09 < aestetix> with ssh, I use the -i flag all the time
08:09 < dfused> _NSAKEY: haha I remember that book
08:09 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Good luck with that. Flags are different between Linux vs BSDs, and even between distros.
08:09 < aestetix> but if I only worked with the same servers and had it all in my .ssh/config
08:09 < aestetix> I would forget about it
08:10 < aestetix> or like
08:10 < aestetix> netcat.... is listening on the port -P or -p?
08:10 < aestetix> and so on
08:10 < _NSAKEY> An example is inline replacing on GNU sed vs FreeBSD's sed vs OpenBSD's sed.
08:10 < _NSAKEY> Oh, fuck netcat in the ass. Seriously.
08:10 < aestetix> what's great is when flags change between versions
08:11 < _NSAKEY> I spent most of the last weekend working on a script at work that echos keystrokes into netcat, because some orphaned production box runs a thing that can only be managed by connecting to it over netcat.
08:11 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: ever fucked up something by using ln -s  in the wrong order?
08:11 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: Yeah, but that at least hasn't lead to breakage.
08:12 < _NSAKEY> I found out the hard way that as soon as I started piping keystrokes into netcat, that I couldn't control when the specific thing I was scraping data from would stop.
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08:13 < aestetix> yep
08:13 < _NSAKEY> -w 1 works just fine if you're not piping another program into it.
08:13 < _NSAKEY> -q would probably work, but that isn't in every version of netcat.
08:13 < _NSAKEY> It's not on the versions of CentOS I was stuck playing with.
08:13 < _NSAKEY> So, I didn't get to test that. Fixed the problem with a loop and a counter.
08:13 < aestetix> well just copy over the binary from another distro
08:13 < aestetix> what could go wrong
08:14 < _NSAKEY> It won't ever be printed off and framed in an art gallery, but it worked.
08:14 < aestetix> of course that totally breaks the repository manager.... but whatevs
08:14 < _NSAKEY> But seriously, who aside from 90s dinosaurs who never adapted actually uses netcat to manage something in production like that?
08:15 < _NSAKEY> The entire thing is a rack-mounted dumpster fire. The asshat who wrote it is long gone, wrote it himself, and the source has zero comments.
08:15 < _NSAKEY> Oh, and there's 3 different copies of the source, and it's thought that exactly none of them are the code for what's running in prod.
08:17 < _NSAKEY> The cheater's justice scene from Casino comes to mind.
09:36 <@rattle> I still reflexively wind up using telnet to do basic port communications testing stuff that I should use netcat for..
09:37 <@rattle> This happened recently on a shared screen session on a consulting call, and the tech was really confused.  Someone else on the call went "he's just really old, don't worry about it".
09:37 <@rattle> I'm still not sure how I feel about that.
09:38  * Evilpig points at the old guy
09:38 <@Evilpig> I use telnet daily to test ports for shit
09:38 <@Evilpig> we don't have netcat on the ltm's 
09:39 < dfused> and I still get pissed everytime I forgot telnet is not inherently installed on windows and try and test connectivity
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09:45 < aestetix> what's wrong with telnet
09:47 <@rattle> Technically it's like hammering in a nail with a screwdriver.  You can do it, but it's not its intended use.  Telnet can hand over environmental variables and whatnot.
09:48 <@rattle> It's something you do if you're old.  The kids are taught to use nectar.
09:48 <@rattle> netcat.  Interesting spelling replacement.  Heh.
09:48 < aestetix> well
09:48 < dfused> goddammit....now I'm hungry
09:49 < aestetix> what were you doing with telnet that you should have used netcat?
09:49 <@rattle> telnet host 25
09:49 <@rattle> Nothing crazy.
09:49 < aestetix> what's wrong with that
09:49 <@rattle> Exactly.
09:50 < aestetix> Are there technical advantages to using netcat for that?
09:50 < aestetix> or is it just dogmatic?
09:50 < aestetix> IE screen vs tmux
09:51 <@rattle> Netcat doesn't have any mechanism to satisfy requests for environmental information associated with RFC's governing terminal operation.
09:51 < aestetix> so netcat is actually less useful
09:51 <@rattle> That's one way to look at it.
09:52 <@rattle> Technically, when you use telnet over netcat, you expose a client threat surface you otherwise wouldn't.  It is the correct tool.
09:52 <@rattle> It's not wrong, you're just old.
09:53 < aestetix> Were you on a conference call with middle schoolers?
09:53 <@rattle> Some SE's feel like that sometimes.
09:55 < aestetix> Or are they mac users who are ashamed if their computer is more than 5 years old
09:55 <@rattle> No, just folks that were not using unix back when grunge rock was still hip.
09:56 < dfused> back when I gave a shit about my kernel size cause I had fuck all for memeory
09:56 < aestetix> You mean folks who are too young to remember 9/11?
09:56 < dfused> spending forever tweaking the kernel configuration figuring out what I can live without....
09:57 <@rattle> No, like folks that will not admit the reason they liked bad style init over sysv style init wasn't because of init, but because the flags for ps on the same system just were not cool.
09:57 <@rattle> s/bad/bsd/
09:57 < aestetix> haha
10:04 < remoford> freud is strong with that one
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15:18 < wsmith> Don't suppose anyone is up for some (paid-for) qualys/nessus scans?
15:20 < wsmith> As in I need them and am willing to pay
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16:07 < dasunt> Learned the hard way not to to have two factor authentication using a phone number of a cell phone you are trying to restore from backup.
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16:32 < aestetix> I wonder when aws will post their postmordem
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16:57 <@Evilpig> aestetix: about the time that hell freezes over
17:32 <@Dagmar> A problem that deep and that pervasive is going to take a little while to figure out
17:32 <@Dagmar> If it was an easy one it would have only persisted for a half hour tops
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23:25 < _NSAKEY> rattle: If it makes you feel any better, I know a sysadmin in his 20s who swears by using telnet over netcat.
23:26  * sol1d snorts 
23:27 < sol1d> http://45.63.16.220/whore.mp4
23:27 < PigBot> sol1d: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 02 00:00:06 2017