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06:15 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:40 <@Dolemite> Jesus H. Christ, it just keeps snowballing.
06:45  * aestetix_ jugs Dolemite 
06:45 <@Dolemite> jugs?
06:45 -!- aestetix_ is now known as aestetix
06:45  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:45 < aestetix> that was an imposter
06:54 < TheDukh> what keeps snowballing?
07:06 <@Dolemite> TheDukh: Supreme Complete Ruler Of The United States, aka SCROTUS
07:07 <@Dolemite> Apparently this is what happens when you piss off both the media and the intelligence agencies at the same time
07:08 <@Dolemite> WaPo, NYT and CNN are all climbing over all each other to get more details out before the others
07:09 <@Dolemite> It's good to at least see the press acting like the press, again.  They pretty much did give Obama a lot of slow pitches.
07:11 < xray> https://scout.ai/story/the-rise-of-the-weaponized-ai-propaganda-machine
07:11 < PigBot> xray: That URL appears to have no HTML title.
07:11 < xray> The Rise of the Weaponized AI Propaganda Machine
07:13 < _NSAKEY> Dolemite: There's a depressingly simple answer to that. Obama was their pick in 2008. Trump was not their pick in 2016.
07:13 <@Dolemite> I don't disagree
07:13 < _NSAKEY> I think that Trump et al capitalized on that general trend, and continue to do so.
07:14 < _NSAKEY> I mean, impotent wailing about "da libural media" had been going on for some time pre-Obama, but the hilariously one-sided coverage of Obama vs. McCain just helped make things worse.
07:15 < _NSAKEY> Some of my conservative friends turned their noses up at Obama going on late night TV shows, but I haven't heard any complaints from those same people about Trump being on Alex Jones.
07:27 < aestetix> ok so here's what I don't understand
07:27 < aestetix> when the the left become proponents of massive government and safe spaces?
07:28 < aestetix> It's definitely happened in the last 20 years
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08:05 < wsmith> I'm looking for a qualys/nessus scan on three machines (two winders and one linux). Send a quote with credentials to wsmith@blackoakgroup.com
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08:15 < rattle> Saying that the press liked Obama and they hate Trump is over simplifying.  It's one of those simple things that is both true and completely wrong.
08:16 < rattle> Obama's relationship with the press was grounded by the simple fact that Obama and his administration respected the press and their mission, even though they would often be adversaries.
08:17 < rattle> Trump on the other hand, has declared the press the enemy.  It's not that he's the first president to think that..  But he's certainly the first the outright declare it as the bedrock of the relationship.
08:30 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVTmMw4xn3o
08:30 < PigBot> Title: How Many Light Bulbs Can A Human Eat? (Human Science) L.A. BEAST - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/h8k2dp2
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10:56 <@Dagmar> I'm not pulling that stupid video up.
10:57 <@Dagmar> Light Bulbs are not food
10:57 <@Dagmar> Therefore the word "can" should be replaced with "should" and the answer is:
10:57 <@Dagmar> Zero.
10:57 <@Dagmar> Fuckin clickbait crap
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11:00 < aestetix> it's not clickbait
11:00 < aestetix> the guy does in fact eat light bulbs
11:01 <@Dagmar> <Dagmar> Light Bulbs are not food
11:07 <@Evilpig> rangerz just sent me this.  http://wapo.st/2lLlkwx
11:07 < PigBot> Title: Influential conservative group: Trump, DeVos should dismantle Education Department and bring God into classrooms - The Washington Post (at wapo.st) http://tinyurl.com/gnrknoz
11:07 <@Dagmar> Yeah...
11:08 <@Dagmar> That's the sort of shit people will burn down the White House over
11:08 <@Dagmar> Let 'em try
11:08 <@Dagmar> I honestly can't think of a more profoundly long-term destructive thing they could do, short of just spraying lead paint straight into the air
11:09 < TheDukh> The American Crusade:  heathens vs the Children of God (except catholics, jews, muslims, and those damn buddhists.  Protestant only)
11:09 <@Dagmar> The heathens will _win_ that one
11:16 < K`Tetch> Dagmar - that's actually one of the plans by the oklahoman thats gonig to take over the EPA
11:19 <@Dagmar> not a problem
11:19 <@Dagmar> You've got to ask yourself... Are these people fireproof?
11:20 <@Dagmar> Maybe you should try looking at the website again
11:20 <@Dagmar> wrong channel
11:41 < aestetix> I'm in favor of the first part
11:41 < aestetix> I do think the Education Department should be disbanded
11:41 < aestetix> I'm not sure how they plan to do the God stuff without it though
11:52 <@Dagmar> You might want to familarize yoursefl with the DoE's mission statements
11:52 <@Dagmar> Without an at least minimally educated populace, we start barrelling towards a feudal dystopia
11:52 <@Dagmar> The Dept of Education is only failing because its budget is _shit_
11:53 < aestetix> I strongly disagree
11:53 <@Dagmar> The damage that has done can *not* be unraveled in one season, so people act like it's impossible to fix
11:54 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Have you looked at what public school teachers can make?
11:54 <@Dagmar> It's on par with pizza delivery
11:54 < aestetix> Dagmar: I think education in the US was ok before 1980
11:54 < aestetix> In fact, that's when it started to go to shit
11:54 <@Dagmar> Amazing what thirty years of nothing but budget cuts will do
11:55 < aestetix> You realize 1980 is when the education department was *created*, right?
11:55 <@Dagmar> Literally none of the schools around here can afford to pay a competitive wage
11:55 <@Dagmar> aestetix: Your point being?
11:55 < aestetix> That I don't think education is something the federal government should have shit to do with
11:57 <@Dagmar> You are deeply wrong about hte origins of the department of education
11:57 <@Dagmar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education
11:57 <@oddball> aestetix: Funny thing.  The federal Dept. of Education was created in late 1979.
11:57 < PigBot> Title: United States Department of Education - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/pxsy79j
11:57 < aestetix> oddball: like I said
11:57 <@Dagmar> I blame the fact that _you_ weren't around before then
11:57 < aestetix> ok so 1979 is technically before 1980
11:58 <@Dagmar> The department's role is to help, not to dictate
11:59 <@Dagmar> The federal gov't has had a hand in this since the 1800's
11:59 < aestetix> Dagmar: you mean like how they use federal funding threats to impose bullshit standardized tests?
12:00 <@Dagmar> Not enough money to do it right
12:01 <@Dagmar> If you want to look at the root of why "fake news" propagates and anyone voted for Trump _or_ Hillary, you can start with the fact that most people's education was effected by people making less than $24,000/year
12:01 < aestetix> Yeah because CNN wasn't biased at all during the eleciton.
12:02 <@Dagmar> CNN was biased because they can afford to be
12:02 <@Dagmar> People won't turn the channel because they don't know any better
12:02 < aestetix> You mean because their primary income source is.
12:02 < aestetix> Here's the thing
12:02 < K`Tetch> theres different kinds of bias.
12:02 < aestetix> Over 300 newspapers and outlets endorsed Clinton
12:02 < K`Tetch> thre's factual and non-factual bias
12:02 <@Dagmar> If people stop watching, viewer ratings drop.  When viewer ratings drop, advertising money goes with it
12:02 < aestetix> 3, including Fox News, endorsed Trump
12:03 <@Dagmar> Yes, and the stupid people voted for Trump because they think this is a popularity contest
12:03 < aestetix> So you're calling half of America stupid?
12:03 < aestetix> .... I would not actually argue with you on that
12:03 <@Dagmar> ...and stupid people voted for Hillary because she has a vagina and they think it's important to "make history"
12:03 < aestetix> Actually I'd argue because I think it's a lot more than half :)
12:03 < K`Tetch> by definition half of america is of below-average intelligence
12:03 <@Dagmar> I'm calling MOST of America not only stupid, but extremely stupid
12:04 <@Dagmar> K`Tetch++
12:04 <@Dagmar> People overlook that
12:04 < K`Tetch> by definitions of world standards, yes, most americans are... 'lesser educated'
12:04 < aestetix> yes yes thank you george carlin
12:04 <@Dagmar> When your IQ ranks in the 98th percentile, most of American appears _breathtakingly_ stupid
12:04 < K`Tetch> well, not world, but 'western'
12:04 < K`Tetch> don't I know it Dagmar
12:05 <@Dagmar> Neither Trump nor Hillary should have gotten anything like they votes they did
12:05 < aestetix> I would agre
12:05 <@Dagmar> They were literally garnering votes based on what stupid people think
12:05 < K`Tetch> why aren't you part of the Pirate PArty :-)
12:05 < aestetix> But there was nobody worth voting for
12:05 < aestetix> They all sucked
12:05 <@Dagmar> The only way to fix that is to destroy the anti-intellectualism and raise the general level of education
12:05 <@Dagmar> Stein wasn't bad
12:06 <@Dagmar> ...and certainly she was better than Trump or Hillary
12:06 < K`Tetch> well, apart from all her ignorant statements, and counter-factualist 'green' platform
12:06 < aestetix> That's not a high bar
12:06 <@Dagmar> ...but stupid people believe it's possible to "waste" their vote
12:06 <@Dagmar> No, it wasn't a very high bar
12:06 < aestetix> I'm still in favor of the inanimate carbon rod
12:06 < K`Tetch> (I should point out btw, that half the Pirate PArty officers at the moment are ex-greens)
12:07 <@Dagmar> It's shameful that the bar has ever been that low
12:07 <@Dagmar> _Shameful_
12:07 < K`Tetch> I would love more nuclear, for isntance, which would be great for greening our power system
12:07 < K`Tetch> greens say 'no' because of nuclear fear
12:08 < aestetix> I can't tell if the politicians are smart and evil, and giving off an image for the TV, or they really are as fucking dumb as it seems
12:08 < aestetix> I almost want them to be dumb
12:08 < K`Tetch> I've never figured that out either. The ones I know seem smart in private, but often say the dumbest things in public, but you always wonder if its because of that "one more thing" they've been told
12:08 < aestetix> I can tell you that most of the activists are rock-stupid
12:09 < K`Tetch> many are, yes
12:10 < aestetix> I'd say most.
12:10 < K`Tetch> I don't know most
12:10 < aestetix> ok fair point
12:10 < K`Tetch> so I refuse to pass judgement ont hem
12:10 < K`Tetch> squeaky wheels, etc.
12:10 < K`Tetch> (or to use a different oen, empty vessels make the most noise)
12:11 < aestetix> Also, the bay area has a special breed of stupid
12:11 < K`Tetch> the smart activists mostly gave up being activists to become burners
12:12 < aestetix> I just remember a few years ago being at a lawyer conference in DC
12:12 < aestetix> And bringing up questions that none of them had even fucking considered
12:12 < aestetix> They were all federal lawyers, and all completely useless
12:12 < K`Tetch> lawyers study law, only patent lawyers need a techie degree
12:12 < aestetix> Great. Then stop making decisions on tech without consulting experts
12:13 < K`Tetch> and we're back at dunning kruger
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12:14 < aestetix> The best part was being at a privacy conference and seeing a bunch of lawyers on macbooks using facebook
12:15 < K`Tetch> but more importantly, lawyers do well only when they're extremely confident. that self-confidence breeds contempt for others, because they think they're smart in law, and that means smart all over
12:15 < K`Tetch> yeah, macbooks = dumb
12:15 < aestetix> So the same issue with engineers
12:15 < aestetix> who think because they are good with computers they can do anything else ;)
12:15 < K`Tetch> some
12:16 < K`Tetch> although I do have a lot of extremely conservative engineers
12:16 < K`Tetch> I mean hard-core
12:16 < aestetix> then again
12:16 < aestetix> In terms of the popularity contest, I'll say this much
12:17 < aestetix> All the stories that came out about Jake hosting orgies in Berlin
12:17 < aestetix> Jake is not the only one who hosts them.
12:17 < K`Tetch> who, what?
12:17 < aestetix> oh when the sex stuff about jake Appelbaum came out
12:18 < K`Tetch> oh, applebaum
12:18 < K`Tetch> bbiab, gotta go give a friend a ride
12:18 < aestetix> Let's just say activists are prone to drama
12:35 < rattle> I never got invited to all the orgies and shit.  I missed out.
12:43 < xray> intelligence != educated
12:44 < aestetix> ^
12:44 < xray> school != education either
12:45 < aestetix> rattle: do you really want to go to an orgy filled with people who think Ed Snowden is the second coming?
12:45 <@Dagmar> Without a minimum of education, intelligence is of reduced effectiveness.
12:45 < rattle> Valid point..
12:45 < aestetix> I'll put it this way
12:46 < aestetix> The complete lack of boundaries they display on twitter and in the hitpiece vox articles they put out about each other
12:46 < xray> The point is that education is a life long pursuit and not the sole providence of schools
12:46 < aestetix> Can also be found in the bedroom
12:46 <@Dagmar> How many times a week do you see people online arguing with people they should _not_ be arguing with, simply because they don't have a damn clue just how far from a correct understanding they have?
12:50 <@Dagmar> With the current poltical climate, and the cooperation of the news media, we've reached higher levels of anti-intellectualism in this country than ever before.
12:50 <@Dagmar> That's due in great part to how crap the public education system is.
12:51 < aestetix> I would agree
12:51 <@Dagmar> Local governments apparently can't afford to fund those things properly.
12:51 < aestetix> Thanks to decades of NCLB and Common Core
12:51 <@Dagmar> That's where it becomes the job of the federal government to step in and help where local economies cannot.
12:51 < xray> That implies that the individual isn't responsible for their own education.
12:51 <@Dagmar> They are responsible, but there's nowhere for most of them to get it
12:51 < xray> If I'm uneducated it's my own fault.
12:51 < aestetix> Dagmar: they don't have libraries?
12:52 <@Dagmar> Libraries alone won't do it, and in case you haven't noticed they're not very well funded, either
12:52 <@Dagmar> The resources have to be made available before people can use them
12:52 < xray> You pay educators massive sums to watch you read a book.
12:52 <@Dagmar> No, we don't.
12:52 < xray> Meaning I pay nothing if I do it for my self.
12:53 <@Dagmar> I was making three times what any public school teacher was making, including the highest paid ones
12:53 < xray> Therefore Any abmount of money == infinity compared to $0
12:53 < aestetix> If you give schools more money, they will hire more administrators
12:54 <@Dagmar> If we give them less money, they _can't_ hire teachers competitively.
12:54 < aestetix> This is one of the reasons I fucking hate the tea party
12:54 < aestetix> They keep defunding schools on the state and local level
12:54 <@Dagmar> Money doesn't magically make happieness or solutions.
12:54 < aestetix> .....
12:54 <@Dagmar> A lack of money can definitely prevent those things, tho'
12:54 < aestetix> did you not just say that the problem with schools is they don't have enough money?
12:55 <@Dagmar> I did.
12:55 <@Dagmar> That's one thing that's absolutely preventing them from being able to employ the best teachers.
12:55 <@Dagmar> ...or even _good_ teachers, because those people will merrily go make a better wage doing other things.
12:55 < aestetix> And if you give schools more money, why would they spend it on teacher salaries?
12:55 <@Dagmar> That's the wrong question to ask.
12:56 < aestetix> I'm asking because they clearly are not right now
12:56 <@Dagmar> That's because budgets are laughably small
12:56 < aestetix> And when they get money they get bullied into hiring diversity counselors
12:56 <@Dagmar> These positions have salary _ceilings_
12:57 <@Dagmar> At this point I'm wondering if you ever had a class on formal logic.
12:58 < aestetix> I also had a class on human nature and corruption
13:04 < aestetix> ......
13:04 < aestetix> "Peace Doesn’t Require 2 States, Trump Says"
13:05 < aestetix> Is Trump seriouesly going to fuck up Israel?
13:08 <@Dolemite> You're seriously asking that?
13:17 < rattle> By all appearances, Trump fucks up everything he touches.
13:22 < K`Tetch> 13:51:14 «aestetix» Thanks to decades of NCLB and Common Core <-- NCLB is only 15 years old, and common core was only released 6.5 years ago
13:24 < K`Tetch> my bad, nclb is not 15 years ld, it was only 14 years old when it was terminated in 2015
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13:27 < K`Tetch> my school district here, if you gave them more money, they wouldn't spend it on more administrators, they'd spend it on more for hte football team
13:35 <@Evilpig> K`Tetch: I think that is true about many districts
13:38 < rattle> http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp?id=41744517&category=W_APP_TEES_GRAPHIC
13:38 < PigBot> Title: Altru Apparel AOL Tee - Urban Outfitters (at www.urbanoutfitters.com) http://tinyurl.com/j67c75v
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15:26 <@Dagmar> Israel (and to a lesser degree Palestine) has already fucked up Israel
15:27 <@Dagmar> No environment where people are bombing neighborhoods over religious differences is healthy or even remotely okay
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19:04 < K`Tetch> http://ktetch.co.uk/2017/02/civil-forfeiture-karma-destroy-trump/
19:04 < PigBot> Title: Civil Forfeiture (and Karma) Could Destroy Trump | Politics & P2P (at ktetch.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/gqjh6le
19:18 <@Dagmar> I'm leaning towards karma.
19:59 < K`Tetch> well, it's karma based on his statement last week, about a state senator wanting to restrict asset forfeiture
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