--- Log opened Fri Jan 20 00:00:56 2017
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06:14 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, Republibe0tches and Demoh0ez!
06:20 < xray> mornin
06:31  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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06:50 < aestetix> I'm watching some highlights of the appointment hearings
06:50 < aestetix> when did democrats become socialists?
06:51 < xray> They have been for many years now.
06:52 < aestetix> And the questions being asked to the nominees.... it's no wonder nobody with any sense wants to serve in office
06:52 <@Dolemite> Well, there has always been a fringe group that has leaned socialist.  Unfortunately over the past several years, the middle ground has eroded and both parties have had to move to the extremes.
06:52 < aestetix> For example, education
06:52 <@Dolemite> That's why we had to choose between Socialism and Fascism at the ballot box this year.
06:52 <@Dolemite> Nothing in between
06:52 <@Dolemite> aestetix: because Grizzly Bears
06:52 < aestetix> I'm all about providing some kind of assistance to students who (1) meet standards (2) maintain those standards
06:53 < xray> We homeschooled
06:53 < aestetix> Like if there is some black kid in the ghetto who gets a 1600 SAT score and gets accepted into harvard, but his parents are on welfare, then by all means there should be some way to assist him
06:53 < aestetix> As long as he keeps let's say a C average in school
06:54 <@Dolemite> We keep going back and forth on the idea of homeschooling
06:54 <@Dolemite> It all depends on how bad the bullying is when Mr. 11 gets into Middle School.  We've heard that it's ridiculous at this point.
06:55 < aestetix> It's funny because at this point democrats call me a republican and republicans call me a democrat
06:55 < aestetix> And I call them both fascist
07:30 < TheDukh> I think I pissed off a few republican friends when I said the president was just a temp worker.
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08:16 < dfused> Dolemite, its bad.
08:18 < aestetix> What's bad
08:18 < aestetix> is bullying bad, or is the way schools handle it bad?
08:18 <@Dolemite> The bullying
08:19 <@Dolemite> It's not physical, so the schools really can't detect it
08:19 < aestetix> so microaggressions?
08:19 <@Dolemite> No, not micro at all.  Just not physical, and very easy to hide.
08:19 < dfused> and the current social rules dont allow thme to really stand up for themselves without incurring the wrath of the adults
08:19 <@Dolemite> One of my Scouts, in 5th grade...   has been told repeatedly that now that Trump has been elected he's going to be sent home.
08:20 <@Dolemite> His mother and father were both born in the US, as was he.  His father served in the US Navy.
08:20 < aestetix> So why would he be sent "home"?
08:20 <@Dolemite> But because his mother is Korean heritage, he looks Asian.
08:21 < aestetix> To be fair, nobody has a clue what Trump will actually do wrt immigration
08:21 < aestetix> "nobody" may include trump
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08:21 < dfused> Dolemite, and given that most kids begin to pull away from parents during this time, its easy for it to go unnoticed by you as well leavin gthem in a dark hole
08:21 <@Dolemite> My son has friends that are of various non-white lineage.  He hears groups of kids bullying them all the time, and when he tries to speak up about it, they start to tease him.
08:23 < aestetix> So how do kids establish respect
08:23 < aestetix> IE "yeah he's asian but you do NOT wanna mess with him"
08:23 <@Dolemite> My son scores very high on the empathy scale.  Sometimes I wished he also scored high on the ass kicking scale.  I'd almost rather have to deal with him doing the wrong thing (kicking their ass probably is what they really need) for the right reason than to continually have to explain to him that there are simply some absolute shitheads in this world.
08:23 < aestetix> Sometimes a kid needs a good beating
08:24 < dfused> aestetix, be smarter, more aggresive, and be able to retaliate verbally with such ability as to shut the oteher person down.  something that usually is lacking in kids at that age
08:24 < aestetix> Ok.
08:25 < aestetix> The adults do realize that kids form "tribal" groups, right?
08:25 < dfused> no they dont. ...sadly.
08:25 < aestetix> IE "don't mess with that guy, he looks puny, but he's a Jet"
08:25 < dfused> and the school rules of 'we dont care whoe started it, you both get suspended for fighting' is ludicrous
08:26 <@Dolemite> meetin' tmie
08:26 <@Dolemite> time
08:26 < aestetix> That is stupid.
08:27 < aestetix> Is there never a fight where the adults hold back for a while because "that kid did kind of have it coming"
08:28 < dfused> I would.....
08:29 < aestetix> I mean it sounds like the school rules were designed by people who would handle ww2 by asking the nazis and jews to "talk it out"
08:29 < dfused> then again, I told mine to defend himself and beat the living hell out of anyone who attacked him. I would stand by him aginst the school so long as it was him defending himself against an agressor.
08:29 < dfused> aestetix, you are correct sir.
08:30 < dfused> lets all just sit and talk about our feelings so we can work this out.
08:30 < aestetix> "they kicked down my door and dragged my family to a death camp" "and how did that make you feel?"
08:31 < aestetix> although it's more like "that guy spit on my jacket"
08:31 < dfused> time for me to get back to writing my paper.   -.-
08:31 < aestetix> or whatever happens with kids
08:53  * K`Tetch was bullied a lot as a kid - which was funny when, 3 years ago, my last landlord and his 'admin guy' tried to bully me and goad me into a fight
08:54 < K`Tetch> getting bullied in a high crime/poverty area always has the same results - in the end you either learn to run fast, fight well,m or not care about pain while fighting as dirty as possible.
09:12 < xray> There is no such thing as fighting dirty
09:12 < xray> You either fight or not
09:13 < K`Tetch> marquis of queensbury
09:13 < xray> When you fight, strike hard, strike fast, use every resource at your disposal. Don't turn your back on them until they are incapable of getting back up and coming after you.
09:13 < K`Tetch> thers a good discworld quote
09:13 < K`Tetch> i don't have it to hand right now
09:13 < xray> If It's a quote I'm unaware of it.
09:14 < K`Tetch> no, I mean there is a good quote about that, i just don't have it to hand
09:14 < xray> Oh
09:14 < K`Tetch> this summerises it http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Marquis_of_Fantailler_rules
09:14 < PigBot> Title: Marquis of Fantailler rules - Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki (at wiki.lspace.org) http://tinyurl.com/h4or5wa
09:15 < K`Tetch> found it
09:15 < K`Tetch> *The Marquis of Fantailler got into many fights in his youth, most of them as a result of being known as the Marquis of Fantailler, and wrote a set of rules for which he termed “the noble art of fisticuffs” which mostly consisted of a list of places where people weren’t allowed to hit him. Many people were impressed with his work and later stood with noble chest outthrust and fists balled in a spirit of manly aggression against people who hadn’t read the M
09:18 < xray> If you fight with rules it simply means that you can fight without the consequences.
09:19 < xray> If that's the case then the provocation doesn't warrant fighting at all.
09:19 <@Dagmar> That's what _maiming_ blows are for
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09:22 < ware> meeting with a guy who is considering throwing a few hundred thousand at a btc mining op
09:22 < ware> anyone have advice / ideas other than "youre too late"
09:23 <@Dagmar> Make sure you're buying stuff that can turnover coins faster than it depreciates and uses electricity
09:23 < ware> really trying to figure a way to DIY ASIC components into miners instead of paying retail or ebaying for antminers as initial hardware costs seem to be the entry barrier, considering the low margin roi
09:24 <@Dagmar> ...although at this point he'd almost be better off having bought bitcoins outright last month
09:24 < ware> seems like speculating the btc market can be much more profitable and less effort than mining them lol
09:25 <@Dagmar> Well, let's see... it's value in unrelated to regional currencies, and a lunatic is being appointed to the Presidency today
09:25 <@Dagmar> Said lunatic is stating that he's going to run the government "like a business"
09:26 <@Dagmar> Yet he pays no taxes because his returns show he only loses money
09:26 <@Dagmar> I've been hoping they'll go back down below $850 and they're just not doing it
09:26 <@Dagmar> Maybe the Chinese will do something scary again
09:27 < ware> meeting with the guy next week through a friend and im the tech guy they want to bring in
09:27 <@Dagmar> Presently, bitcoin has *doubled* since last year
09:27 <@Dagmar> It's gone up about 10% this month
09:27 < ware> apparently he already has an out of country operation setup but wants to move it here and expand, but i dont know the details
09:28 < ware> yeah its up 200% in 2 years
09:28 < ware> still in infancy but still growing
09:28 < ware> i dont think its going anywhere
09:28 <@Dagmar> I have a little booklet here detailing my 401j from Vanderbilt... Their 10 year projection is for -1.12% gain
09:28 < ware> LOL
09:28 <@Dagmar> Yes, they actually sent me paper saying they're going to _lose_ 1.12% of my money over the next ten years
09:28 < ware> well i lost ~20k in stock market last year so there ya go
09:28 <@Dagmar> That shit is getting moved into bitcoin
09:29 <@Dagmar> This is their _ten year_ projection
09:29 <@Dagmar> That's the period they're supposedly useful for
09:29 < ware> pretty messed up
09:29 <@Dagmar> In other words, they're quite certain they've no idea what they're doing and my retirement fund would be better off in a sack buried under a tree
09:30 <@Dagmar> ...but I'll betcha Vanderbilt is still getting their payout from it
09:55 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crR6Rys4usA
09:56 < PigBot> Title: LIVE: Donald Trump Inauguration - FULL COVERAGE of 58th Presidential Inauguration Events (1/20/17) - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/j8kvprl
09:56 < aestetix> buckle up buckaroo
10:02 < ware> https://www.facebook.com/www.JOE.co.uk/videos/818510024979732/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
10:02 < ware> lmao
10:02 < PigBot> Title: Comments (at www.facebook.com) http://tinyurl.com/za7tzw5
10:49 < sol1d> ware: GPus
10:50 < sol1d> but there are more fianncially lucrative uses to massive GPU power than blockchain work
10:50 < sol1d> maybe if its idle sure
10:50 < aestetix> man
10:50 < aestetix> chuck schumer is great
10:53 < aestetix> Why is clarence thomas doing the oath instead of john roberts?
10:53 < aestetix> oh for the VP
10:53 < aestetix> got it
11:11 < dasunt> I'm a little surprised you are watching the inaug.
11:11 <@Dolemite> From this day forward, a New World Order!
11:12 < dasunt> New Order was better.  It wasn't Joy Division, but...
11:12 <@Dolemite> The overly sad thing is that the people who The Donald's message resonates the most with are the ones who refuse to believe that their own race to the cheapest is what drove them out of jobs.
11:14 < dasunt> Hey, if a rich billionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth couldn't help the working poor, than who can?
11:15 < dfused> I giggled a bit when they focused on obama while trump is talking and the look was like "you keep babbling. I thought I could change it all too. ..you have no idea what you're in for."
11:15 < dasunt> Interesting thing I've noticed though about people who feel like they are slipping behind - it almost doesn't matter how much you make, you always feel like you're an average middle class American and you aren't getting ahead.
11:25 < dasunt> Hmmm, 4:1 odds:  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/trump-impeachment-odds-betting-site
11:25 < PigBot> Title: As Donald Trump Becomes President, Bookies Bet Big on Impeachment | Mother Jones (at www.motherjones.com) http://tinyurl.com/zduwevd
12:03 <@Dagmar> dasunt: That's because no one except the 1% is making any meaningful progress
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12:31 < dasunt> Dagmar: How do you define "meaningful progress"?
12:32 <@Dagmar> More than a trivial increase in actual wealth
12:33 < dasunt> The middle class seems to be more willing to increase their lifestyle costs than to save money.  Without savings, there's no wealth.
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12:34 <@Dagmar> Savings aren't necessarily wealth
12:34 <@Dagmar> Wealth is not just money in the bank.
12:34 <@Dagmar> A fully-owned house is not money in the bank, yet it represents wealth.
12:35 <@Dagmar> The middle class is having their income generally reduced compared to the rise in associated costs
12:35 < dasunt> House sizes have increased by more than 1,000 sq ft over the past 40 years.
12:36 <@Dagmar> ...and yet house ownership itself is down.
12:36 < dasunt> Large homes not only increases the price, but also increases the interest, the cost of maintenance, and property taxes.
12:37 <@Dagmar> ...and if everyone within 200 miles of you is only building large houses, where do you live?
12:37 <@Dagmar> You have the option to depart from all your friends and relatives by a sizeable distance, or buy a bigger house than you need
12:38 < dasunt> Which is my point - collectively, the middle class tends to shoot itself in the foot.
12:38 <@Dagmar> ...but it doesn't matter anyway since the banks who will loan the money to the people buying the house are merrily willing to do an adjustable interest rate, wait 15 years before fumbling their bubble, triple the interest rate as a result and foreclose on the now-underwater loan.
12:38 <@Dagmar> dasunt: The middle class isn't the ones building the houses
12:39 < dasunt> Dagmar: They are the ones driving the demand.
12:39 <@Dagmar> Not precisely
12:39 <@Dagmar> They're the consumers, but they dont have any real say over what construction companies build
12:39 <@Dagmar> They can buy (from the available properties) or they can not buy, or they can move far away from their loved ones in hopes something more affordable is elsewhere
12:40 < dasunt> That may be true in exceptional areas like the Bay, but I'm seeing that in flyover country as well, and we have plenty of older housing stock that's not being sold at pretty reasonable prices (around $150k).
12:41 <@Dagmar> No one's got the money
12:41 <@Dagmar> We just finished a massive round of foreclosures and unprecedented skullduggery
12:41 < dasunt> So why are the bigger more expensive houses being sold if nobody has the money?
12:41 <@Dagmar> Because banks are willing to extend loans on those
12:42 <@Dagmar> Banks don't want people to buy houses they can afford.  It's far more profitable to sell someone a larger house that they _can't_ afford.
12:42 < dasunt> We got a loan for our house, no issue.
12:43 < dasunt> I know two people that I can think of off the top of my head with some pretty modest homes for their incomes.
12:43 < K`Tetch> indeed Dagmar, because then they can make the money back on the interest, and if people fall behind, the intrest often covers the amount paid, so they've got the house price to sell again
12:43 < dasunt> Maybe my area is exceptional.  Maybe it's not.
12:43 < K`Tetch> I'd like to buy a house, becaeuse it'd save us a ton of money
12:43 < K`Tetch> but theres 3 bed, 1600sq ft houses going for 40k here
12:44 < dasunt> K`Tetch: That sounds awesome.
12:44 < K`Tetch> one over the road from me was 2000 sq ft, pool, went for 70k
12:44 <@Dagmar> Average incomes in that area are probably very low, too
12:45 < dasunt> Right now, I think for my house, which is tiny (well under 100 sq ft), house, garage and property are probably around $125k.
12:45 < K`Tetch> The median income for a household in the county was $34,509 and the median income for a family was $42,737. Males had a median income of $36,870 versus $27,075 for females. The per capita income for the county was $17,398. About 16.7% of families and 20.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 25.9% of those under age 18 and 9.9% of those age 65 or over.
12:46 <@Dagmar> Around here Im' looking at rentals that have doubled in cost in the last 8 years
12:46 <@Dagmar> I've not noticed Nashville's income doubling in that time span
12:47 < K`Tetch> I'm an hour south of ATL, rents gone up some, but its still pretty cheap here
12:51 < sol1d> my house is worth $2 million
12:51 < sol1d> shit is prime to sell
12:52 < dasunt> If I owned a $2m house, I think I'd sell it and retire somewhere with a low cost of living.
12:53 < sol1d> baller on a budget
12:53 < dasunt> Looks like our average home price is $242k.  Median household income was $71k.
12:54 < sol1d> 71k isnt much of a bread winner
12:54 < sol1d> that's two people?
12:55 < sol1d> i couldnt live off that
12:55 < sol1d> not here at least
12:56 < dasunt> You are in expensive-ville.
12:57 < dasunt> $71k is average household, so I'm guessing a lot of single-earner households, but a lot of dual income households as well.
12:57 < dasunt> Hmmm, checking the map, I am priced out of my old neighborhood.  It yuppified.
13:00 < dasunt> This area is weird.  Nobody will touch north, but other neighborhoods will yuppify at the drop of a hat.
13:03 < sol1d> i airbnb other places and work remote to pay upkeep, thats really it. I'm not into selling properties atm, maybe buying more and renting out.
13:03 < dasunt> I've thought about buying and renting, but it's a lot of work and renters are crazy.  ;)
13:04 < sol1d> they can be held responsible and ive not had issues with airbnb
13:08 < dasunt> AirBNB seems good.  Renters can be held responsible but it can take a long time to evict them.
13:13 < sol1d> if (renter == family) {fucked} else {court}
13:48 < rattle> aestetix: So how are folks there reacting to this?
13:49 < aestetix> Nobody cares.
13:49 < aestetix> Well, that's not entirely true.
13:49 < aestetix> But it's more an attitude of "those silly Americans"
13:50 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWiFPzQ2ADc
13:50 < PigBot> Title: Donald Trump Inauguration RIOTS, PROTESTS & DRAMA - Trumps America STARTS NOW - LIVE Donald Trump - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jelu3lb
13:50 < rattle> I think they should be terrified, but I'm silly.
13:50 < aestetix> This guy is cycling through all the protest streams
13:50 < aestetix> rattle: Germany has been through worse than Trump
13:51 < rattle> Wow.  I loaded it up, and the ad leader was for a carry conceal holster.  No shit.
13:51 < aestetix> haha
13:51 < aestetix> There is another stream not focused right now of some protesters building a bonfire in the street
13:52 < rattle> I couldn't make that shit up.  Really.  That happened.
13:53 < aestetix> rattle: I don't remember protests like this in DC
13:54 < aestetix> This looks more like what I saw in Oakland
13:54 < rattle> Every protest eventually becomes a collection of complete idiots.
13:54 < aestetix> pretty much
13:55 < dfused> which is why most protests are ignored for actual purpose and only looked at for potential damage and agression
13:56 < aestetix> Well most protests aren't actually for a specific cause
13:56 < aestetix> Like, if workers go on strike for wages, that's different.
13:56 < rattle> It's nice that everyone is respectfully keeping the cross walk's open.  Everytime someone blocks me on the sidewalk or particularly the crosswalk, I fantasize about murdering them.
13:57 < aestetix> there's the fire
13:59 < aestetix> such an eloquent speech
14:01 < aestetix> oh wow that's a new one
14:01 < aestetix> "Fuck the cistem"
14:05 <@Dagmar> If ever there was a more apt special snowflake motto
14:07 < aestetix> Looks like they took over a limo
14:15 < dfused> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlwXdOvEPXE
14:15 < PigBot> Title: YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jfuwj5v
14:15 < dfused> 1946 video on spotting despotism
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16:23 < dasunt> The protests around here are something I never worry about.
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