--- Log opened Wed Jan 18 00:00:53 2017
--- Log closed Wed Jan 18 00:07:15 2017
--- Log opened Wed Jan 18 00:18:24 2017
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06:10 < xray> very quiet this morning
06:11 < xray> 13 Million Pages of Declassified CIA Documents Were Just Posted Online
06:11 < xray> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/13-million-pages-of-declassified-cia-documents-crest-archive-were-just-posted-online
06:11 < PigBot> Title: 13 Million Pages of Declassified CIA Documents Were Just Posted Online | Motherboard (at motherboard.vice.com) http://tinyurl.com/jqdv3qy
06:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:23 < xray> morning
06:32  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:36  * Dolemite squeezes out a fart
06:36 < aestetix> I didn't hug you *that* hard
06:36 < aestetix> ok so
06:36 < aestetix> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/julian-assange-wikileaks-hand-himself-chelseas-manning-commute-barack-obama-extradition-sweden-a7532706.html
06:37 < PigBot> Title: Julian Assange 'to hand himself in and be extradited to the US' after Barack Obama commutes Chelsea Manning sentence | The Independent (at www.independent.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/h9j2s93
06:37 < aestetix> I wonder if this is the case of a newspaper using wishful thinking
06:37 < aestetix> or more to the point: is Assange's ego bigger than his instinct for self-preservation
07:30 <@Dagmar> We'll see if Assange wants to argue the importance of the word 'clemency'
07:32 <@Dagmar> I'm sure they probably _meant_ 'pardon' but commutation still counts
08:25 < K`Tetch_> heres my write up I did last night
08:25 < K`Tetch_> http://ktetch.co.uk/2017/01/assange-painted-into-corner-with-manning-boasting/
08:25 < PigBot> Title: Assange Painted into Corner with Manning Boasting | Politics & P2P (at ktetch.co.uk) http://tinyurl.com/gu7gnl6
08:26 < K`Tetch_> the thing is, there's no extradition request for ASsange from the US, never has been
08:26 < K`Tetch_> and even if there was, it would have failed days before he went into the embassy
08:28 < K`Tetch_> 4 days before he went to the embassy, the UK supreme court denied his final (6th!) appeal, and set a date for extradition to Sweden. Under extradition law, Sweden would then have to agree to any extradition to the US, as would the UK (using the stronger Swedish treaty, rather than the 'probably cause UK-US one)
08:29 < K`Tetch_> Thing is, Sweden has a prohibition against extradition for political reasons. Second biggest haven for vietnam draft dodgers, even refused to extradite a US citizen wanted for treason who defected to the USSR
08:29 < K`Tetch_> that's why Assange applied for residency in Sweden (two days before the allegations were made)
08:31 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: most countries have prohibitions on extradition for political reasons
08:31 < aestetix> at least afaik
08:31 < K`Tetch_> nope, most don't
08:32 < _NSAKEY> The whole Assange thing is super messy.
08:32 < K`Tetch_> the UK certainly doesn't
08:32 < aestetix> most european countries, at least?
08:32 < K`Tetch_> its messy because he's deliberately made it messy
08:32 < K`Tetch_> nope
08:32 < aestetix> huh
08:32 < K`Tetch_> not to my knowledge
08:32 < aestetix> A nation cannot have free speech without such an exemption
08:33 < aestetix> Which I guess plays right into your point :p
08:33 < _NSAKEY> Am I the only one who remembers the articles pointing out that the only reason he was actually being charged with anything in Sweden is because he had sex with both the girls without a condom, they didn't know about each other at first, and both freaked out about it? That's illegal in Sweden, apparently.
08:33 < K`Tetch_> nothing to do with free speech. it's all to do with jurisdictional differences, and desire.
08:34 < K`Tetch_> SWeden considers treason to be 'political', most others don't
08:34 < _NSAKEY> Not being sarcastic or anything, that exact situation is apparently against the law there.
08:34 < aestetix> It has everything to do with free speech. Otherwise if I'm in the US and I make public statements about Sweden, they could extradite me to sweden
08:34 < K`Tetch_> without a condom when consent was only with one
08:34 < K`Tetch_> thats the molestation charges
08:34 < aestetix> ugh I don't want to hear/think about assange's sex life :(
08:34 < K`Tetch_> there's also the rape charge, where the girl woke up to him penetrating her
08:35 < _NSAKEY> K`Tetch_: My understanding is that both of the girls were dating him or whatever, and then found out about the other girl.
08:35 < K`Tetch_> nope
08:35 < _NSAKEY> But I stopped keeping up with that years ago, except here and there.
08:35 < K`Tetch_> that was what he was claiming
08:35 < K`Tetch_> it got shot down SEVERELY in court
08:36 < _NSAKEY> Because as aestetix just pointed out, nobody REALLY wants to think about some old guy's sex life.
08:36 < K`Tetch_> hes not that old
08:36 < K`Tetch_> On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep. was in a helpless state.
08:36 < _NSAKEY> He looks that old.
08:36 < aestetix> I mean donald trump's pee pee party just faded
08:36 < K`Tetch_> hes 45
08:36 < aestetix> and now assange's broken condom is coming back
08:36 < aestetix> :(
08:36 < K`Tetch_> thats the rape charge that was found to be substantiated by the UK high court
08:37 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: I don't remember there being a condom. Let that visualization stick with you for the rest of the day, preferably while you're trying to eat.
08:37 < K`Tetch_> On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity. Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge.
08:37 < aestetix> god damnit
08:37 < K`Tetch_> On 18 August 2010 or on any of the days before or after that date, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm, Assange deliberately molested the injured party by acting in a manner designed to violate her sexual integrity i.e. lying next to her and pressing his naked, erect penis to her body.
08:37 < K`Tetch_> those were hte two molestation charges
08:37 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: If it makes you feel any better, NoFault knows someone who started eating like nothing was going on when she saw 1 man 1 jar for the first time.
08:38 < K`Tetch_> On 13-14 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [AA] in Stockholm. Assange, by using violence. forced the injured party to endure his restricting her freedom of movement. The violence consisted in a firm hold of the injured party's arms and a forceful spreading of her legs whilst lying on top of her and with his body weight preventing her from moving or shifting. <-- unlawful coercion charge
08:38 < aestetix> NSFL
08:38 < aestetix> This is like 50 shades of australian
08:39 < K`Tetch_> all but the rape charge have had their statute of limitation expire
08:40 < _NSAKEY> K`Tetch_: I have a feeling he's going to stay in the embassy regardless of what happens, unless personally invited to go out and paint the town red with Trump and Putin.
08:43 < K`Tetch_> but, as I've written in my piece, he's painted himself into a corner
08:44 < K`Tetch_> he only went intot he embassy because he was 'afraid of US extradition". Now he's said he'd comply, he's got no 'fear' to use as an excuse
08:44 < K`Tetch_> he was bluffing, figuring the president that has been so hard on whistleblowers wouldn't cmmute the sentence
08:44 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: agreed
08:45 < K`Tetch_> screwed by his own ego
08:45 < K`Tetch_> ...again
08:46 < aestetix> assange really kind of sucks at politics
08:46 < aestetix> the embassy thing seemed like a great move, until it turned out he did not have a step 2
08:46 < K`Tetch_> again, he was calling peoples bluff
08:47 < aestetix> protip: if you're trying to take on the world's most powerful nation, chances are you will not be able to just "wait" them out
08:47 < K`Tetch_> what he missed was that under UK law, the Met can't ignore an absconder
08:47 < K`Tetch_> and the embassy wasn't as well appointed as he thought
08:47 < aestetix> yep
08:48 < aestetix> and from what I understand it is small inside
08:48 < aestetix> (I have a couple friends who have visited him)
08:48 < K`Tetch_> its a small london flat
08:48 < K`Tetch_> 1500 sq ft maybe
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09:43 < dasunt> K`Tetch_: I wouldn't be surprised if he says a commuted sentence isn't the same as clemecy and thus he isn't going to agree to extradition (which, AFAIK, the US hasn't officially seeked).
09:43 < K`Tetch_> indeed
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09:45 < dasunt> Also wouldn't be surprised if people claim it was a trap and the US is out to get him.
09:45  * dasunt shrugs.
09:50 <@Dagmar> dasunt: Problem there is that commutation of a sentence is actually a form of clemency
09:52 < dasunt> Won't stop the Assange fans.  They believe him when he claims he was fighting Sweden because he was afraid that Sweden would extradite him.
09:53 <@Dagmar> Clearly, they were going to
09:55 < dasunt> I mean, to the US.
09:55 < K`Tetch_> right
09:55 < K`Tetch_> (again, I cover the details of all that in my piece)
09:55 < dasunt> I know Sweden isn't perfectly innocent, but I'd put my money on the UK being more cooperative than Sweden when it comes to the US.
09:56 < K`Tetch_> the Us-Uk extradition treaty does not require the US to provide evidence to substantiate the extradition request
09:56 < K`Tetch_> it meerly requires establishment of probably cause, essentially a testimony that evidence exists
09:57 < K`Tetch_> UK-Sweden (and US-Sweden) treaties require the evidence be presented
09:57 < dasunt> I did not know the specifics.
09:58 < K`Tetch_> (I'm a Brit, and I've worked with the Pirate APrty for the last 10 eyars, I know my way aroudn the US-uk extradition law, especially as it relates to hackers
09:59 < K`Tetch_> especially the richard o'dwyer case, where I was also covering it from torrentfreak
09:59 < dasunt> Which part of Britain?
09:59 < K`Tetch_> liverpool
10:00 < dasunt> Ah, so pro-Brexit land?
10:00 < K`Tetch_> no
10:00 < K`Tetch_> the cities were anti
10:00 < K`Tetch_> <--- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Norton_(Pirate_Party)
10:00 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 404: Not Found. http://tinyurl.com/hyhjklo
10:00 < dasunt> Hmmmm.
10:01 < K`Tetch_> Liverpool saw 58.2% of voters back Remain, with more than 118,000 people giving the EU a vote of confidence.
10:07 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: are you a chav?
10:08 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: oh wait, you're in the pirate party.... so I assume you know asta?
10:09 < K`Tetch_> aestetix - didn't we do panels at dragoncon together?
10:10 < aestetix> yes I believe
10:10 < aestetix> that was a while ago of course :)
10:10 < K`Tetch_> nymrights
10:10 < K`Tetch_> so you should know if I'm a chav
10:10 < aestetix> heh
10:11 < K`Tetch_> have to narrow down 'asta', I know a lot of people, andmy poor, old-person brain isn't good at names anyway
10:11 < aestetix> asta from iceland
10:11 < K`Tetch_> vaguely then, yes
10:11 < aestetix> ah ok
10:12 < K`Tetch_> I speak more with birgitta, when I speak ton them
10:12 < aestetix> ah ok
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10:13 < K`Tetch_> trying to focus on writing some books right now
10:14 < K`Tetch_> so i took a leave from the pirate party last summer
10:19 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: what books
10:23 < aestetix> https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821753136692002816
10:23 < PigBot> Title: WikiLeaks on Twitter: "Assange is still happy to come to the US provided all his rights are guarenteed despite White House now saying Manning was not quid-quo-pro." (at twitter.com) http://tinyurl.com/jztpsww
10:25 < aestetix> well he's not a US citizen, so he basically has no rights
10:35 < dasunt> At least he's getting some exercise by moving the goal posts.
10:36 < dasunt> Gawd, I wish this was really a common occurance:  http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/betsy-devos-grizzly-bears-donald-trump-guns/index.html
10:36 < PigBot> Title: Citing grizzlies, Betsy DeVos says states should determine school gun policies - CNNPolitics.com (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/hrukafw
10:37 < dasunt> Living right next to a college neighborhood, I think grizzlies could really help weed out the dumb kids.
10:55 < K`Tetch_> aestetix - anyone in the US has pretty much the full set of protections of rights
11:02 < aestetix> K`Tetch_: and assange is not in the US
12:00 <@Evilpig> They announced this via email at 10am today.  http://zaniesnashville.laughstub.com/event.cfm?id=480248&cart
12:00 < PigBot> Title: Zanies - Nashville :: Chris Rock (at zaniesnashville.laughstub.com) http://tinyurl.com/h48d8lg
12:00 <@Evilpig> at 10:05 I was clicking the link to get a ticket and it was essentially sold out
12:01 <@Evilpig> how the fuck?   ticketmaster I get.  they set aside most of theirs to resell on their other sites for markup.  but zanies?
12:01 <@Dagmar> Isn't it great that they made automatic ticket purchasing software illegal?
12:01 < dasunt> Shit's serious.
12:02 <@Evilpig> they didn't even announce that show until today
12:02 <@Evilpig> the announcement for it was yesterday saying something big was gonna happen today at 10am
12:02 < dasunt> Just throwing this out there as a half-baked idea, but would a lotto system work better?
12:02 <@Dagmar> Oh I'm sure the bot masters knew
12:02 <@Dagmar> What would work better is drawing and quartering people who run scalping bots.
12:02 <@Dagmar> ...or possibly just pillorying.
12:03 <@Evilpig> I agree with that
12:03 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Pillory for the guys with the "need tickets" signs and drawing and quartering for the guys writing the bots.
12:03 < _NSAKEY> Scale the punishment to suit the scale of the offense.
12:04 <@Evilpig> the usual scalpers aren't showing in craigslist.  just a couple of people looking for tickets.  http://nashville.craigslist.org/search/tia?query=chris+rock
12:04 < PigBot> Title: nashville tickets "chris rock" - craigslist (at nashville.craigslist.org) http://tinyurl.com/jlgbz5t
12:04 <@Evilpig> this stinks of large corporate event bought out the place 
12:05 < _NSAKEY> Things like this are why I gave up on live events completely.
12:05 < dasunt> _NSAKEY: You'll just outsource the jobs to some fuckistan country with lax law enforcement.
12:05 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: Drone strikes.
12:05 <@Evilpig> _NSAKEY: I goto live stuff alot.  they're fun.  stuff like this is just irritating and I want answers
12:06 <@Evilpig> since all my coworkers are out to lunch i'm going to get some dq.  bbl
12:06 < dasunt> _NSAKEY: In that case, I'm doing my scalping on an pwned computer.
12:07 < _NSAKEY> Heh.
12:35 < dasunt> Sounds like Assange's lawyer is claiming that the circumstances of the Manning case didn't meet his requirements.
12:35  * dasunt is Jack's complete lack of surprise.
12:56 < K`Tetch_> aestetix - books - 2ns ed of No Safe Harbor, 1st ed of no Safe harbor 2, the history fo the first 10 eyars of the Pirate movement worldwide, and one on Discworld
12:56 < K`Tetch_> and I know he's not int he US, I was responding to "11:24:59 «aestetix» well he's not a US citizen, so he basically has no rights"
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--- Log closed Thu Jan 19 00:00:55 2017