--- Log opened Fri Nov 18 00:00:40 2016
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--- Log opened Fri Nov 18 06:26:27 2016
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06:30 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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06:36 < xray> mornin
06:37 < xray> or its time zone adjusted equivalent.
07:15  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:40 < aestetix> wow
07:40 < aestetix> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.html
07:40 < aestetix> this article kind of almost gets the issue
07:40 < PigBot> "Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 303: The HTTP server returned a redirect error that would lead to an infinite loop.\nThe last 30x error message was:\nSee Other. http://tinyurl.com/z9x2qzz"
07:41 <@opticron> jeff sessions picked for AG
07:48 < aestetix> jeesus
07:49 < aestetix> it's annoying watching these countries enshrine "right to ___"
08:04 <@rattle> And Pompeo for CIA..  Which makes zero fucking sense.
08:05 < aestetix> rattle: on the plus side at least I don't have to listen to Hillary supporters crowing about about privilege nonsense
08:05 < _NSAKEY> rattle: Were you expecting the aftermath of this election cycle to magically start making sense?
08:06 <@Dolemite> aestetix: I don't think it was the Hillary supporters crowing about privilege.  I'm pretty sure they were more of the Bernie or Bust crowd.
08:06 < aestetix> oh ok
08:06 <@Dolemite> Ak, "New Socialists"
08:06 < aestetix> I mean either way, that group of loud regressive idiots
08:06 <@Dolemite> Neo Socialists
08:06 < aestetix> lemme find the video...
08:07 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItfWYmIcYOo
08:07 < PigBot> Title: Everyone Moving To Canada Post Election: #CheckYourPrivilege - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hmqxsge
08:07 < aestetix> That's a video of a Hillary campaign staffer spewing the privilege nonsense
08:08 < aestetix> oh wait maybe not
08:12 < aestetix> Dolemite: a few weeks ago I was at a gathering, and mentioned to a friend (an American who moved here a few months ago) that I haven't really seen any police in Berlin
08:12 < aestetix> She responded "that's because you're white"
08:12 < aestetix> Which makes no logical sense at all.
08:13 < aestetix> If the statement was "I haven't been harassed by police" it would make sense, maybe.
08:13 < aestetix> But the liberals and the democratic party in general seems to be a race to the borrom
08:13 < aestetix> bottom
08:15 <@Dolemite> Well, just like the Republican Party was taken over by RINOs, the Democratic Party has been taken over by DINOs
08:15 <@Dolemite> Liberal doesn't mean socialist
08:15 <@Dolemite> Nor does it mean diaper pin wearing safe space dwellers
08:15 < aestetix> I easily identify with the classical liberals.
08:17 < aestetix> Dolemite: so is there a political party today that's not full of INOs?
08:17 <@Dolemite> No, they all seem to be extremists
08:17 <@Dolemite> And it's no longer a right v left tug of war
08:17 < aestetix> And the moment you step out and try to say something rational, you get destroyed.
08:17 <@Dolemite> More like a Gartner Magic Quadrant of fucked-uppedness
08:18 <@Evilpig> heh
08:18 <@Dolemite> (tm)
08:18 < aestetix> Evilpig: please refer to me by my preferred pronoun
08:18 < aestetix> "mr. penis"
08:18  * Evilpig punches aestetix for suggesting pronouns
08:19 <@Evilpig> I'll refer to you lik eall the others.  "hey you"  or if you prefer "hey asshole"
08:19 <@Dolemite> Speaking of pronouns, I saw where Ham got Vanderbilt license plates for his Audi.  Since he no longer works there, it surprised me.  Is he taking classes there?  I would find it extremely out of character.
08:19 <@Evilpig> no clue
08:19 <@Dolemite> Of course, him getting engaged to a woman in TX came from out of the blue for me, especially not seeign him on a regular basis these days
08:20 <@Evilpig> I still think that is a bit of a knee jerk to someone else we know getting engaged
08:20 <@Dolemite> Who?
08:20 <@Dolemite> I must have missed the other one
08:20 <@Evilpig> franco
08:20 <@Dolemite> Ah
08:20 < aestetix> polo
08:21 <@Dolemite> I never really knew her, so I'm not FB friends with her
08:21 < aestetix> rattle: do you think bullshit identity politics have taken over the liberal class?
08:21 < aestetix> because it seems that way
08:21 <@Dolemite> That is a bit odd, especially given that Ham posted he was engaged to her as an April Fools not long ago
08:22 <@Evilpig> from what I was told they had been "having fun" but she wasn't serious about it and he was.  she got engaged to his friend travis and then he lost his shit
08:22 <@Dolemite> Ah
08:23 <@rattle> I'm not sure I have a grasp on what people consider identity politics.
08:23 <@Dolemite> Is she the one that also said she couldn't hang out with you outside of work, either?
08:23 <@Dolemite> Basically "keep it professional"
08:23 <@rattle> I'm also aware I'm in a bubble of sorts.  Some things that seem very challenging to other people don't even register on my radar.
08:23 <@Evilpig> yeah.  that happened at that same time.  travis is extremely jealous from what she's told me.
08:24 <@Dolemite> ah
08:24 <@rattle> I live in NYC.  Every race, ethnicity, class, etc..  I see it every day on the subway and in the streets.  Everyone gets along.  These things just don't seem like issues to me.  I simply don't think about it.
08:24 <@Dolemite> Yeah, I never understood why people stick around with overly jealous people
08:26 <@rattle> I must admit a certain ignorance of issues regarding racial divides and stuff like that.  I just don't see it.  I'm not exposed to it.  I just see different people getting along.
08:27 < xray> Why has it become fashionable to be in a constant state of offended.
08:28 <@rattle> My kids are mixed race.  My ex-wife and my current girlfriend are a different race from me.  The only time it ever dawns on me that's strange to people, is when I'm somewhere in the burbs and get a strange look from someone.  And, it just feels weird.
08:28 <@rattle> s/race/ethnotype/
08:28 <@Dolemite> Self worth seems to be tied to your effort to right wrongs, and the more obscure the wrong, the more right you are.
08:29 <@Dolemite> Bonus points for the wrong being something that you're not affected by.
08:29 <@rattle> So many things that seem to bother people in those regards just don't even register with me.  I'm confused by it.
08:30 < aestetix> rattle: Has anyone ever told you that your opinion doesn't count because you're a white man?
08:30 < aestetix> Or that you are an oppressor?
08:30 <@Dolemite> My armchair quarterback analysis is that if Hillary Clinton had rebuked these SJWs instead of trying to court them after Bernie was defeated, she might have won some of the states she thought were safe.
08:30 <@rattle> No to the former, yes to the latter.
08:30 < aestetix> I've gotten yes on both.
08:31 <@Dolemite> I've been told that my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a cis white male
08:31 < aestetix> Usually at that point I shut the conversation down.
08:31 < aestetix> rattle: that is what I mean by identity politics.
08:31 < aestetix> All this shit about privilege, the black lives matter crap, etc
08:32 < aestetix> I don't think I will ever forgive Hillary for embracing it.
08:32 <@rattle> I'm part of the "establishment elite".  It's not lost on me that's a double edged sword.  In one regards, I have a far better understanding of how things actually work than most people.  In another regard, there is just as much I don't understand.
08:33 <@rattle> However, I do think it's damn important to expose issues regarding people who are oppressed, denied opportunity, etc..  So like, while I might not be thrilled with every tactic I see..  I think it's damn important to fight for everyone's rights.
08:34 < aestetix> I'm all about that. But only if it's accompanied with solutions.
08:34 <@rattle> I'm a huge believer that societies should be judged by how they treat their least fortunate, not their elite.
08:34 < aestetix> I have not seen BLM advance any solutions.
08:34 < aestetix> Just a lot of angry bullying.
08:35 < aestetix> BLM seems to be a mix of people who actually have issues of some sort, and those who want to push their own agenda and grandstand while trying to relive the 60s
08:36 < aestetix> Further, I've seen a lot more noise from white college kids than blacks.
08:37 <@rattle> I've got mixed feelings there.  If not for all the stir that BLM has been at the center of, folks like me might not actually be aware at all that there are still massive issues regarding criminal justice, police vs community relations, etc..
08:37 < aestetix> I'm all about raising awareness of issues. I am not interesting in using the awareness raising as an excuse to verbally abuse others.
08:38 < aestetix> Further, I see a lot of raising awareness, but no attempting to find solutions.
08:38 < aestetix> There is an entire industry that seems to make profit off making everyone feel awful about themselves.
08:39 <@rattle> Like, I live in an environment were the police are frankly awesome.  A part of that is that it's the upper east side, and well, we just don't really have many problems here.  Another is that NYC doesn't really have racial tension stuff in general, until you get into the Bronx and stuff, and most people see poverty as the issue, not race..  I'm in a bubble.  A lot of people are in bubbles of various types, with their own misperceptions of how it is else
08:39 <@rattle> where.
08:39 < aestetix> I mean, I cannot point to a single policy or law that BLM has helped create.
08:40 < aestetix> rattle: the current democratic line seems to be that becuse you live in an area that has no police issues, you are inherently responsible for fixing police issues in another area.
08:40 < aestetix> Which is IMHO extremely misguided.
08:41 <@rattle> Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.
08:41 <@rattle> If you live in an area with good policing, you should share what's working with other communities.  That makes sense.
08:41 < aestetix> I mean, I'm all about helping a community if (1) they ask (2) I have time resources and interest
08:42 < aestetix> But I believe that my own community comes first, for me.
08:43 < aestetix> I mean, I had friends in Oakland who were shocked when I criticized them..... because they had all worked to shut down a highway to "raise awareness"
08:43 < aestetix> When I pointed out that not only does it make people aware of the cause and not liking the cause at the same time, they stopped talking to me.
08:44 < aestetix> They put all that energy into shutting down a highway, and zero energy into trying to solve the problem.
08:44 < aestetix> Hillary catered to that crowd. It is one of the reasons she lost my vote.
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08:49 < aestetix> Ok, if this pisses me off this much, and I haven't even lived in the US in almost two years, I can't imagine how it is for you guys.
08:55 <@rattle> I'm just dumbfounded by it all.
08:55 <@rattle> Nothing, absolutely nothing makes any damn sense from my perspective.
08:55 < xray> On a completely different note: https://pentestbox.org/
08:55 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:492: error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error. http://tinyurl.com/zyk4sg4
08:55 < aestetix> rattle: I'll drink to that.
08:56 < xray> PentestBox is an Opensource PreConfigured Portable Penetration Testing Environment for the Windows Operating System
09:00 < aestetix> At this point I would not be surprised if the US had another civil war.
09:00 < aestetix> Lead by the democrats.
09:01 <@rattle> Well, the fourth turning is certainly underway.  History is going to start moving really fast.
09:01 < aestetix> fourth turning?
09:01 <@rattle> Seems like that theory had teeth..
09:01 < xray> I've never heard of the fourth turning either.
09:02 <@rattle> Ahh.  Yeah.  I guess this is one of those establishment elite things.  :)
09:02 <@rattle> https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479481316&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fourth+turning
09:02 < PigBot> rattle: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
09:02 <@rattle> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory
09:02 < PigBot> Title: Strauss–Howe generational theory - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/okahtsx
09:03 <@rattle> https://www.amazon.com/Generations-History-Americas-Future-1584/dp/0688119123/
09:03 < PigBot> rattle: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
09:03 <@rattle> https://www.amazon.com/13th-Gen-Abort-Retry-Ignore/dp/0679743650/
09:03 < PigBot> rattle: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
09:05 <@rattle> In short, we are right on schedule for all hell breaking loose.
09:08 <@rattle> Strauss-Howe's theory was taken very seriously in the late 90's when the book came out.  After 911, folks sorta drifted away from it because things just didn't line up that great anymore.  The idea of an early crisis along the lines of the civil war period didn't seem to be a thing..  Argument was we avoided going completely off the rails.  Generational theory sorta fell out of style.
09:08 <@rattle> Now, it's sorta come rearing back.  Because, well, the shoe turns out to fit exceedingly well.
09:37 < aestetix> Hmm.
09:37 < aestetix> Yeah, 911 put a bunch of things on hold.
09:43 < aestetix> This is also interesting because Germany is quite clearly in a different stage.
09:43 < aestetix> Germany in general feels fundamentally different from the US
09:44 < aestetix> I would say Berlin is either in "Idealist" or "Reactive" stage, possibly because it's finally coming out of the Cold War
09:46 < xray> sounds like Psychohistory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)
09:46 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: HTTP Error 404: Not Found. http://tinyurl.com/jm7drr8
09:47 < aestetix> well I'd say the difference is that psychohistory was more predictive and exact, less theory
09:47 < aestetix> Didn't Hari Seldon claim to have all history mapped out?
09:47 < xray> yes
09:48 < aestetix> I mean I've only read the first foundation book
09:48 < xray> but in fact it was the androids who actually knew what was going on.
09:48 < aestetix> So two interesting things here
09:48 < xray> Seldon didn't predict The Mule.
09:48 < aestetix> First, the black/white tension ONLY seems to exist in the US.
09:49 < aestetix> I mean Germany has tensions, especially with the Syrians, but there isn't really much white/black tension here
09:49 < fie> Probably in South Africa too
09:49 < aestetix> Second, according to the civil war class I'm taking online, the white/black divide seems to come from American slavery.
09:49 < aestetix> Which would explain why it's so intense in the US
09:49 < fie> aestetix: yeah?
09:50 < fie> Yeah.
09:50 < aestetix> fie: slavery existed all over the world, but the US was the only place where if you were black, you were assumed to be a slave
09:50 < aestetix> Apparently that's where the concept of "white" comes from
09:51 < fie> Yes
09:52 < fie> To make it go away you just have to forget it.
09:53 < fie> No big problem.
09:53 <@rattle> What's really interesting, is the whole concept of "white" has migrated to Asia.  For instance, rich urban Chinese consider themselves "white", and peasants "dark".  They actually use the equivalent word for "white".  Apparently, that didn't exist until exposure to western media.
09:53 < aestetix> Uh I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
09:54 < fie> Forget it was not sarcastic, not a big problem was sarcastic
09:54 < fie> Morgan freeman on 60 minutes
09:55 < aestetix> rattle: I think the other problem the democrat/liberals have is they are trying to make the idea of a class society go away
09:55 < fie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ
09:55 < aestetix> Another facet of identity politics is social marxism, which IMHO is an ideological cancer
09:55 < PigBot> Title: Morgan freeman solves the race problem. - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/lucaqej
09:56 < fie> Social marxism?
09:57 < aestetix> fie: basically taking Marx's economic ideas and trying to push them into a social context
09:57 < aestetix> It's a descendent of the Frankfurt School. It's where all this "diversity" shit comes from
09:58 < fie> From what I know marx had a lot to say on social class
09:58 < aestetix> Yes, but on economics
09:58 < aestetix> Marx didn't comment on, for example, what words you're allowed to say
09:58 < fie> You don't think they are intertwined?
10:12 < aestetix> rattle: if the democrats would shut the fuck up about "inclusion" and "diversity" I might start taking them seriously again
10:13 < aestetix> But I don't think they will.
10:13 < aestetix> And I think that's one of the reasons some kind of war is inevitable.
10:14 < xray> I'm guessing the pervs are looking at the whole bathroom thing as social engineering heaven.
10:14 < aestetix> god I am so sick of that nonsense
10:14 < aestetix> Nobody actually cares about that crap. NC clearly set that up as a political bait trap, and the liberals fell for it, hard.
10:16 < xray> I can tell you there are a lot of parents that it really pissed off.
10:16 < aestetix> Yep.
10:16 < aestetix> There is no other purpose to a law like that except to get everyone pissed at each other.
10:20 < aestetix> rattle: I don't mean to be such a debbie downer, but the democrats have *really* disappointed me in the last year or so
10:22 < aestetix> I mean I already knew the GOP was full of shit.
10:31 <@rattle> The Democratic party lays in ruins.  It's it's own damn fault.
10:33 < aestetix> I kind of hope California actually secedes.
10:33 < aestetix> That would be fucking hilarious.
10:35 < aestetix> I mean fucking Noisebridge has declared itself a safe space. Then again, NB bears very little resemblance to the space I used to be involved in
10:55 < aestetix> wow
10:55 < aestetix> this is in fact a reddit username
10:55 < aestetix> https://www.reddit.com/user/FELLATIO_by_TedCruz
10:55 < PigBot> Title: overview for FELLATIO_by_TedCruz (at www.reddit.com) http://tinyurl.com/jo6mase
11:16 < fie> <aestetix> I mean fucking Noisebridge has declared itself a safe space
11:16 < fie> That's gross
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11:37 < aestetix> fie: agreed
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13:45 < TheDukh> http://usmclife.com/2016/11/trump-meet-gen-mattis-secretary-defense/
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 19 00:00:42 2016