--- Log opened Thu Jun 30 00:00:34 2016
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08:19  * aestetix tries to hug Dolemite, but misses because he has not yet arrived
08:29 <@rattle> Are you a bitch or a h0e?
08:29 <@brimstone> *b1tch
08:30 < aestetix> rattle: nobody asked Brennan any hard questions.
08:30 <@rattle> Perhaps we should take votes to determine this.
08:31 <@rattle> aestetix: What did you want?  Someone to ask a question about how he felt about babies dying in miss targeted drone strikes?  Would that have been helpful to the policy dialog?
08:31 < aestetix> Uh, no.
08:31 < aestetix> That's not a hard question, it's an irrelevant and stupid question.
08:32 < aestetix> However, I seem to have just hit a nerve.
08:33 < aestetix> Here's an example: "We've been running the drones program for years, but the terrorist cells keep growing. Given the development of ISIL and other groups, how can we conclude that the drone programs are remotely effective?"
08:33 < aestetix> or something to that extent
08:34 < aestetix> Right now, the establishment answer seems to be "trust us." Which is unsatisfactory.
08:35 < aestetix> rattle: we can agree on a few things. Terrorist is bad. People dying is bad. The drones shit is difficult to justify, but stopping terrorism is a reasonable justification for it IMHO.
08:36 < aestetix> But in order to conclude that, we need evidence that it actually works.
08:36 < aestetix> Am I wrong?
08:36 < aestetix> I mean I can derive a whole slew of other questions from that, but it s a good start.
08:37 < aestetix> Nothing personal, nothing specious, and no attacks based on classified information from wikileaks. Using publicly available, above the board information, I think it's totally possible to craft questions to challenge the validity of some of these programs.
08:37 <@rattle> That strikes at the heart of a very, very hard problem.  Public discussion about the effectiveness of the strikes is basically impossible, as it gives far too much information to the enemy.  Those discussions and oversight activities happen behind closed doors.
08:39 < aestetix> So why not release meta-data that gives additional context without revealing sensitive information?
08:39 <@rattle> And yes, that's infuriating..  But that's the way it is.  Public sharing of metrics related to covert activities isn't gonna happen without some serious time lag.
08:40 < aestetix> Ok, time for a follow up question for Brennan: given the challenge here stated, how can you restore a reasonable amount of trust in the public that our elected representatives are doing a good job?
08:41 <@rattle> My suggestion is to unfuck Congress.  Oversight is their job.  Elected representatives that embody the values of their constituency seated on the select committees should be the ones getting the full story and pulling the alarm bell if something is off.  That's how the system is designed to work.
08:41 < aestetix> Ok. So get Brennan to make a statement to that effect.
08:41 <@rattle> I believe he has..
08:42 <@rattle> As has POTUS and a flock of others.
08:42 < aestetix> No offense, but Obama is a fucking pussy.
08:42 < aestetix> Let me rephrase in less vitriolic terms
08:42 <@rattle> No one really likes to talk about how Congress is failing at it's oversight mission, but I believe there is widespread consensus.
08:42 < aestetix> He's too cautious, and it's too obvious he's a lawyer.
08:43 < aestetix> I'm all about non-intervention, but Obama threatened Assad about gassing his own people, and then walked back on his word.
08:43 <@rattle> He's actually been pretty ballsy.  Keep in mind, when it comes so several areas of reform he's pushed, the court has actually shut him down in terms of executive authority.  Immigration is the best example.
08:43 <@rattle> Assad called the bluff.  Tactical error on Obama's part.
08:44 < aestetix> And Obama's struggle with Putin has been embarassing.
08:44 <@rattle> You want to invade Syria?  Think that's a good idea?
08:44 < aestetix> I never said that.
08:44 < aestetix> But I'd like a president who keeps his word.
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08:44 < aestetix> Or really anyone in politics.
08:45 <@rattle> I mean, we're doing constant covert ops.  We're dropping so many bombs that the rubble is just turning into smaller pieces of rubble.  And somehow, there's an argument here that we're not taking action?  wtf?
08:45 < aestetix> rattle: emphasis on "covert"
08:45 < aestetix> The US federal government has taken on a "shut up, children, father knows best" attitude
08:46 < aestetix> Ok, here's another good one for Brennan, and one he should have a ready answer for.
08:46 < aestetix> WTF did Orlando happen?
08:46 <@rattle> Yeah.  You can be blatant about a full scale invasion, because the enemy will have already noticed the massing of hundreds of thousands of troops and support personnel moving into place.  However, more surgical things require a bit of finesse.
08:47 <@rattle> It's possible to be in the know about these things, but then it becomes your job.  You're not going to hear the details of covert operations on CNN.  Or rather, you have to wait a few years for Frontline or Mike Rogers to do a documentary about it.  :)
08:47 <@rattle> That's war and espionage.  It's messy.
08:47 < aestetix> Or here's a good one. What kinds of efforts are being put into adding resources and staffing to the office that decides what information becomes classified?
08:48 <@rattle> Actually, the problem isn't what becomes classified..  It's what becomes declassified.
08:48 < aestetix> rattle: speaking of war, if Obama is so hell bent on winning it, why doesn't he ask Congress to approve a declaration?
08:48 <@rattle> There is alot of discussion about classification reform.  Unfortunately, various parties try to derail it every chance they get.
08:48 < aestetix> So let Brennan comment on that.
08:49 <@rattle> It also doesn't help that the biggest classification reform initiative in the past ten years directly led to Manning having access to the information he leaked.
08:49 < aestetix> There are very real problems with US policy and nobody seems to want to address them.
08:50 < aestetix> I suspect this is why when I challenged Tom Ridge at CFP a few years ago, everyone was shocked.
08:50 < aestetix> But yeah, Congress is an issue. The entire fucking point of senators having a 6 year term is so they can debate hard issues on the floor without fearing re-election.
08:50 <@rattle> A bit of wisdom..  The best discussion about the issues you're talking about don't happen with the people in the role, they happen with the various folks next in line.  They guy in office has to be very careful and cannot shoot opinions from the cuff.
08:51 <@rattle> Seriously..  For ALL THIS STUFF, the most effective fix would be to unfuck Congress.
08:52 < aestetix> Well.... that's one part of it.
08:52 < aestetix> Notice that there are two parties to the interview from yesterday.
08:52 < aestetix> Brennan, and the public asking questions.
08:52 < aestetix> The public media is compltely and utterly worthless.
08:53 < aestetix> I mean at least Buckley would have sliced through the bullshit and hit at the meat of the issues.
08:53 <@rattle> This is one of the reasons Donald Trump is having so much success.
08:53 < aestetix> rattle: you are going to LOVE my HOPE talk, if you care about this issue :)
08:53 < aestetix> god
08:53 < aestetix> We need someone like Donald Trump who is not Donald Trump.
08:54 <@rattle> Did you catch the bit this morning about how he was saying that he thought any republicans that don't support him should be kicked out of the party and not allowed to run for office?  That was subtle.  Eh?
08:55 <@rattle> The guy is actually a fascist.  It's amazing this has gone on this long.  This election cycle is truly fucking insane.
08:55 < aestetix> rattle: well I imagine if Trump were elected president, we'd start seeing weekly kristallnachts
08:56 < aestetix> And I say that as someone who can see bulletholes from the Nazis in buildings on my way to work every day.
08:56 < aestetix> But yeah. As far as Brennan killing babies... come on give me more credit than that :
08:56 < aestetix> :p
08:57 <@rattle> Heh..  I'm tainted by the real bat shit crazy stuff I hear all the time.
08:57 < aestetix> I would say one of the issues is the echo chamber that these news orgs have turned into.
08:57 <@rattle> You wouldn't BELIEVE some of the crazy conspiracy theory shit that gets flung around at us.
08:57 < aestetix> I mean, I try to listen to Rush Limbaugh at least once a week.
08:58 < aestetix> When I was at CFP... I think in 2014.... it was like being in a different world.
08:58 < aestetix> I think some of the journalists are afraid if they ask hard questions and challenge authority, they will lose their job.
09:02 <@Evilpig> so plex's big announcement of releasing v1 and how they were enabling the server service on the nvidia shield because... marketing is cool, i'm not impressed
09:03  * aestetix hugs Evilpig 
09:03 < aestetix> pass that to Dolemite
09:03 <@Evilpig> granted I threw my entire library at it which will make a full sized pc crawl, but I demand more!
09:06 < aestetix> rattle: now that I think about it, Obama going to the UK to try to stop the Brexit was also a major tactical error.
09:07 < aestetix> Because it makes it look like he has no influence.
09:07 < aestetix> In fact, I'd argue that one of the reasons optics have become so important in politics is that there is little other substance to base things on.
09:08 < aestetix> As stupid as optics are, at least it is some indication of what's going on.
09:11 <@rattle> Oh, I have my own opinion about how we should handle Brexit.  It's not so popular.
09:12 <@rattle> I think we should invite the UK states to become United States commonwealths.  If they are cool about it, we'll let them vote to become states.
09:12 <@rattle> If they don't go for it, we just colonize them.  240 years seems like the right amount of time to turn the tables.
09:12 <@rattle> :)
09:14 < aestetix> rattle: then again, I'm opposed to globalization. I actually am a fan of nation states, this weird social marxism crap that has taken over universities is just stupid.
09:18 < aestetix> but you know it's fucked when I'm agreeing with Bill O'Reilly more than with the editorial team of the New York Times
09:18 < aestetix> The NYT has IMHO become almost unreadable in the last year.
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10:12 <@Dagmar>  It's propaganda you stupid cunt
10:13 <@Dagmar> It's practically the fucking definition of what they want you to *think* is going on, and is entirely separate from what is *actually* going on
10:14 < aestetix> Dagmar: are you saying that Dolemite is actually in the room and Shadow404 is an illusion?
10:14 <@Dagmar> No, I am saying that you're a stupid cunt
10:18 < aestetix> what else is new?
10:30 <@rattle> How do you really feel?
10:33 < aestetix> Dagmar: you need to get a job as a press correspondent for the White house
10:33 < aestetix> Maybe rattle can issue you some credentials
10:33 < aestetix> If Donald Trump becomes president, I will INSIST on this
10:35 < aestetix> rattle: can you imagine Dagmar interviewing Donald Trump?
10:35 <@rattle> That would be interesting.
10:36 < aestetix> rattle: if CFR has Donald Trump as a guest, I will personally buy Dagmar an airplane ticket to go be in the audience.
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15:49 <@jb7od> Anybody in here ever image a running drive with netcat+isofs? I've done it along time ago but- do you think it'd work if you mounted a c$ on a running machine? You'd want to turn off page file, but anybody think that'd work or would it just shit the bed?
15:49 <@jb7od> s/a long/g
15:49 <@jb7od> fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked that up
15:49 <@jb7od> anywa
15:49 <@jb7od> that was a serious question.
15:50 <@Dagmar> I've no idea why you'd use mkisofs unless you were trying to burn it to a DVD.
15:50 <@Dagmar> ...and ISO filesystems just don't do metadata so you can forget that behaving properly on a "live" system from there
15:53 <@jb7od> it only stays an iso while it's in transit over the network.
15:54 <@jb7od> I think you can do it with other things like tars too, it's a host/client deal-
15:55 <@jb7od> the last time I did it was to move a slackware physical machine to a vm, which totally worked, but the thing here was that it migrated live.
15:55 <@jb7od> and I don't have 5k for vmotion.
15:57 <@Dagmar> If this is for linux stop fucking around with iso and just pipe a damn image file out with dd and netcat
15:58 <@jb7od> I read that, that looks like a better way, but that's not the point- I'm fucking around because I want to map up a share to a c$ share of a running exchange server and pipe that shit to dd while running.
15:59 <@Dagmar> Umm... no
15:59 <@Dagmar> That will end badly
15:59 <@jb7od> with page file off.
15:59 <@jb7od> which can be done.
15:59 <@Dagmar> You can't image a disk while it's mounted and _in use_
15:59 <@Dagmar> Or rather, you can, but the result will be some pretty spectacular filesystem corruption
15:59 <@jb7od> you can on linux.
16:00 <@Dagmar> The only reason you can under Linux is because LVM allows for snapshots which explicitly give you a frozen clone of the filesytsem at the time you called for a snapshot
16:00 <@jb7od> even if it has to be repaired after the fact systemwise, that's worth being live the whole time.
16:00 <@Dagmar> Without doing that you still get a fucked up diskl
16:03 <@jb7od> I want to see how it tears up in specific. Will report.
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17:43 <@Dagmar> okay.  Fuck this noise.
17:44 <@Dagmar> I have been trying a bunch of shit to make this goddamn U-verse gateway transparently forward traffic and I have been getting nowhere
17:44 <@Dagmar> I'm spinning up a dsurreal.org cert through Let's Encrypt and refactoring all this shit
17:44 <@Dagmar> For some bizarre reason the IPTV box actually uses 443 inbound
17:45 <@Dagmar> Shit _breaks_ when I try to repurpose it here.
17:45 <@Dagmar> There's a WAF of approximately zero on that
17:45 <@Dagmar> Zeeeero
17:46 <@Dagmar> jb7od: Basically, once the image has gotten the allocation maps, any writes to the disk while you're imaging it will wind up coming up fucked unless you've bent over backwards to stop the live host from writing
17:46 <@Dagmar> ANY.
17:47 <@Dagmar> If you can make the host be damn near quiescent you can dd a live disk, but otherwise it's just going to make a big mess.
17:47 <@Dagmar> If you've got LVM already established, look into the snapshot features.  You can make a snapshot and then image from that without a big fuss (it's basically what the feature is for).
17:48 <@Dagmar> LVM snapshots just require enough slack space in the volume group to accomodate writes that happen post-snapshot
17:48 <@Dagmar> So... you may be doing a little resizing of volumes but that's relatively safe
17:49 <@Dagmar> I'm trying to do about a zillion things at once here, one of which was data recovery on a microsd card
17:49 <@Dagmar> Turns out that old sdcards are apparently not fucking safe to use with a PI3 when you're not feeding it more than adequate power.
17:50 <@Dagmar> I've killed three.
17:50 <@Dagmar> Getting tired of writing the same shit over and over
17:51 <@Dagmar> Either that or my PI3 is defective and it's killing them... but the microSD cards I've been using with it are my near-ancient 4Gb and 8Gb ones so... not a great loss other than the datas
17:52 <@Dagmar> On the bright side... Dreamhost makes the Let's Encrypt integration stupidly easy.
17:52 <@Dagmar> Also, I'd like to reiterate that I think we should bring back the pillory for spammers.
17:53 <@Dagmar> I just finished wading through 3,785 emails on my one dsurreal.org address.
17:53 <@Dagmar> Every.  Fucking.  One.  Was.  Spam.
17:53 <@Dagmar> The domain was dead for a decade, I finally renewed it last year and all those fucking spammers were still sending spam to it
17:54 <@Dagmar> At some point I'm going ro revisit just routing that shit through Google for their spam filtering
17:55 <@Dagmar> In the meantime I've just enabled whatever the fuck Dreamhost is using as spam filtering.
17:55 <@Dagmar> I may just set the fucking thing up with an auto-responder that does whitelistijng
17:56 <@Dagmar> Gonna slap down a redirect from http to https for the whole domain later tonight
17:56 <@Dagmar> ...once I have the last of my shit out of the apartment
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20:24 < aestetix> ok so
20:24 < aestetix> anyone in here worked with haproxy?
20:24 < aestetix> wondering... if I set a backend to be some external service like amazon s3, that requires a DNS lookup, will haproxy cache the dns for that url?
20:25 < aestetix> I guess if it doesn't I could just set entries in the hosts file
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--- Log opened Thu Jun 30 21:45:25 2016
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 01 00:00:37 2016