--- Log opened Thu Jun 02 00:00:15 2016
00:33 < _NSAKEY> .~
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03:32 < aestetix> oh wow
03:32 < aestetix> https://yahoopolicy.tumblr.com/post/145258843473/yahoo-announces-public-disclosure-of-national
03:32 < PigBot> Title: Yahoo Announces Public Disclosure of National... | Yahoo Global Public Policy (at yahoopolicy.tumblr.com) http://tinyurl.com/z478q4x
03:36 < aestetix> yahoo is trying to stay relevant
04:55 < aestetix> penis
06:14 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:22  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
06:30 <@Dolemite> Nearly 30 minutes yesterday.  Only 9 minutes today.
06:31 < aestetix> for what?
06:32 <@Dolemite> delta-T between me announcing my presence and you offering up the hug
06:32 < _NSAKEY> TTH.
06:32 < _NSAKEY> (Time To Hug)
06:32 <@Dolemite> There was a whole discussion last week about getting the bot to track TTH
06:32 < aestetix> lol
06:32 < aestetix> I must have missed it
06:34 < aestetix> Oh wait, are they all jealous?
06:34 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: do you want a hug too?
06:35 < _NSAKEY> No, I don't want whatever cooties you've likely acquired over the years.
06:35 < aestetix> Hey, every known cootie I've ever acquired has been treatable.
06:35 <@Dolemite> _NSAKEY: YOu just fucked up.  Telling him you don't want a hug is the surest way for him to give you one.
06:36 < aestetix> Dolemite: you like hugs
06:37 <@Dolemite> From my children, yes.  From my wife, certainly.  From close friends and other family members, yes.  From someone who brought the embodiment of PigPen (from Peanuts, for you whipper snappers) to PhreakNIC one year, no.
06:37 < aestetix> Dolemite: which would you rather have: a hug every day, or President Donald Trump
06:38 < aestetix> the embodiment of pigpen?
06:38 <@Dolemite> PigPen was the kid on Peanuts that was so dirty and stinky he was always drawn with a cloud of dust around him.
06:38 < aestetix> I know who pigpen was
06:39 < aestetix> but I don't know what you're talking aobut
06:39 <@Dolemite> You don't remember bringing him with you to the Days Inn?  Several of us were conspiring to get him drunk enough to pass out so that we could throw him into a bath full of soap.
06:40 <@Dolemite> You could smell him 10 feet before he was close enough to see
06:40 < aestetix> What did he smell like?
06:40 < _NSAKEY> Dolemite: This sounds like a good story. Please elaborate.
06:41 <@Dolemite> He smelled like a hippie.  A mixture of sweat, dirt, and shit.
06:42 < aestetix> So like burning midnight liberal oil?
06:43 < aestetix> Wait was that the year they kept telling everyone to go to opening ceremony?
06:45 < aestetix> Dolemite: is it true that if you rub poop into dreadlocks, they maintain better?
06:46 <@Dolemite> Ask your friend, as I wouldn't know.
06:46 <@Dolemite> http://www.knoxnews.com/happening-now/381569851.xhtml
06:46 <@Dolemite> Damn
06:46 < PigBot> Title: North Carolina woman finds dead body in newly purchased freezer (at www.knoxnews.com) http://tinyurl.com/j9m63cs
06:47 < aestetix> hahaha
06:47 <@Dolemite> $30 is a great price for a chest freezer
06:52 <@opticron> "foul play is not suspected"
06:53 <@Dolemite> yeah, makes you wonder why nobody reported grandma missing
06:53 <@opticron> since september, apparently
06:53 <@Dolemite> And if that's the case, why it's not considered foul play
06:54 < _NSAKEY> A "time capsule" with a dead body inside? Isn't that just a lovely thought?
08:08 -!- sicsscam is now known as scam
08:09 <@Dolemite> YES.  Cancel ALL THE MEETINGS for today!
08:10 <@Dolemite> I only had two, but both are with people who aren't here today, or at least at the meeting time
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09:12 <@Dolemite> rattle: re: Henry Rollins song discussion on FB - are there still regular users on memestreams?
09:16 <@rattle> Not really..  A number of folks check in every so often, but there's really no post or discussion activity anymore.
09:16 <@Dolemite> When would you say it got to that state?
09:17 <@rattle> Decius and I have been having an on-and-off conversation regarding what to do about it..  It's unmaintainable.
09:18 <@rattle> The codebase is actually really good, in that the fucker has existed for like 16 years now without being compromised, and it runs super reliably..  But..  It basically can't run on top of modern linux.
09:19 <@rattle> The work that would go into migrating the site to a new system is non-trivial..  It's got dependencies that haven't been maintained in over 10 years.
09:19 <@rattle> It's all built on mod_perl..  No one uses that anymore.
09:19 <@Dolemite> Yep, I hear ya.  I occasionally have to rebase the dependencies we have in openDCIM.
09:20 < aestetix> hmmm
09:20 < aestetix> That's a shame.
09:20 < aestetix> All the traffic is moving to places like facebook :/
09:23 < aestetix> rattle: if you can rebrand it to be about social media crap, you can probably get VC funding
09:24 <@rattle> Heh..  Big no there.
09:25 <@rattle> Back in the early days of the project we tried to get funding, and no one understood what problem we were trying to address..
09:25 <@rattle> Then, once FB and Twitter hit the scene, no one wanted to fund it because FB and Twitter were the thing..
09:26 <@rattle> In short, it's a really interesting story of being ahead of the game, but totally fucking up on execution.
09:27 <@rattle> There are many reasons memestreams failed.  There's a lot to go into there.
09:27 < aestetix> Well not being fascist is probably a part.
09:28 < aestetix> Example: I am *extremely* disappointed with Ello.
09:28 <@rattle> The biggest one is that it was just complex.  The only people who "got it" were hacker types.  We built vim when the world wanted nano.
09:28 < aestetix> They had an amazing chance and totally fucked it up.
09:35 < aestetix> rattle: how big was memestreams at its peak?
09:37 <@rattle> The active user base rarely exceeded 30 people, but there were periods when external traffic would spike surprisingly high.  For a long period of time, we had a HUGE amount of search engine traffic..  We had a very good pagerank in google.
09:38 < aestetix> god german girls are hot
09:38 <@rattle> Then, the spammers showed up..  We battled with them, and were largely successfull..  Since it was a reputation based system, it was really easy to apply nofollow tags to posts for users w/o good reputation scores..
09:39 <@rattle> But, then Google nerfed us, basically because there was adult content sprinkled around..
09:40 <@rattle> For a period of a year or so, we were actually cashflow positive based on the google ads..  Then they completely cut us off.
09:40 <@Dolemite> Ah.  NoFollow is what I needed when I was on memestreams.  What spiked it downhill for me was the dude that would post about 10 links in a single message with no real discussion about what any of those links were.  Maybe he fit into that spammer category.
09:41 <@rattle> From rough 2004 to 2012, the site operated on a combination of funds from google ads, and selling blogworld.com.
09:42 <@rattle> Before that point, Decius paid for everything..  After that point, I've been paying for everything..
09:42 < aestetix> how much is it?
09:43 <@rattle> These days, cheap..  Like $20-30/mo..  The code is really tight, and the traffic is really low, so it can run on a single VM w/o much of an issue.
09:43 <@rattle> That said, it would be trivial to DoS it..
09:44 <@rattle> In the early days, it was probably more like $120/mo..
09:44 <@Dolemite> Yeah, good quality VMs are cheap these days.  I pay $10/month for my Digital Ocean one that has SSD back ends, so it reboots in no time.
09:44 <@rattle> I think at a point it was $200/mo+..
09:45 <@rattle> We undoubtedly could bring the costs way down, but migrating the site is sorta impossible.
09:46 <@rattle> Well, not impossible..  But I'm guesstimating that it's at least three days of solid work.
09:47 <@rattle> Last year, I gave it a shot, thinking I could do it in a day..  Just smacked into brick wall after brick wall..
09:48 < aestetix> rattle: honestly, if you want, I'd be willing to port it over to mod_wsgi to help reduce the costs
09:48 < aestetix> Is it using apache as well?
09:48 <@rattle> It's dependent on Apache 1.x, older versions of Postgres, CPAN modules that haven't been maintained in 16 years..  All sorts of crazy shit that needs to be ported.
09:49 < aestetix> fun
09:49 <@rattle> It's a mod_perl/1.0 app..
09:49 <@rattle> Then there's all the dependencies on graphviz and whatnot..
09:49 < aestetix> ok nevermind
09:49 <@rattle> I'm sort of amazed it still runs..
09:50 <@rattle> Then, to make it even more fun, there's vast chunks of it's code that we wrote in a hurry and figured we'd revisit it when we got funding..
09:50 < aestetix> ^^ story of every startup ever
09:51 <@rattle> It was Decius and I coding it, so the code is tight as fuck, but good luck understanding how some of it works.
09:52 <@rattle> Oh, also..  Some sections of it are clean MVC style with nice abstraction between display, backend, logic, session layer, etc..  Others are literally chunks of code yanking stuff out of SQL with markup language wrapped around print statements..
09:53 <@rattle> Some of the data structures are elegant, other's LSD nightmares.
09:55 <@rattle> There were no real web frameworks when we started coding the thing..  So the web framework it's built around is basically one I wrote.  And technically, there's two of them..  Because a year into the thing, I changed my mind about how I thought it should be architected, but never rewrote some of the older parts of the site.
09:56 < aestetix> memestreams.js
09:56 <@rattle> Oh, and the search engine indexer is written in Java.
09:56 < aestetix> So it's like a precursor to elasticsearch
09:57 <@rattle> And a few years ago, to keep it from dying under the hands of spammers, I whipped up some varnish magic..
09:57 <@rattle> It's a frankenstein nightmare of a web system.
09:58 < aestetix> actually rattle here is a question for you
09:59 <@rattle> And, it's got a cross process caching model I wrote when I was stoned that is completely unique to itself and I don't even remember how it works..
09:59 < aestetix> why are all these NGOs totally willing to fund stupid projects that don't do anything useful, but a project with a defined outcome is impossible to get support for
09:59 < aestetix> like all these petition sites, and all these "advocacy" for whatever bullshitcause
10:00 < aestetix> I have yet to find a good argument as to why change.org is not complete bullshit, for example.
10:00 <@rattle> Why is Justin Beiber a thing?  I don't fucking know.
10:00 <@oddball> aestetix: Because people are actually convinced that it does something.
10:00 < aestetix> oddball: ok. BUT WHAT
10:01 <@oddball> Oh, it doesn't, but they think it does.
10:01 < aestetix> The only thing I see it doing is distracting people away from things that actually work, like calling your rep or going to city hall
10:01 <@oddball> "bbut I signed a petition!"
10:02 < aestetix> I mean honestly, if you want to get the money out of politics, start by shutting down those bullshit orgs
10:03 < aestetix> rattle: am I off base? you're closer to the beast
10:04 < aestetix> oddball: there was one project I saw in the bay area that was actually really, really useful. I introduced him to some friends involved in advocacy groups
10:05 < aestetix> None of the friends did anything with it because it was boring.
10:05 < aestetix> (It involved having people post their ZIP codes when saying things about politics on twitter and such)
10:05 <@oddball> Which is what has been happening with 2nd ammendment issues.  The NRA is actually pretty low on the list when it comes to money spent, hell, Bloomberg spent more on his anti-gun crusade last year.  The difference is that a large parcentage of NRA members are willing to pick up the phone.
10:06 <@oddball> Yeah... sexy sells, and useful is often not sexy.
10:06 < aestetix> including ZIP codes is important because then a congressional rep actually pays attention
10:07 <@oddball> Yep.  Better yet, include your street address.
10:07 < aestetix> Well that crosses a line that makes everyone uncomfortable ;)
10:07 < aestetix> A zip code is solid though
10:08 < aestetix> If you see 10,000 angry tweets that include a hashtag with a zip code you represent, you should probably pay attention
10:09 <@oddball> I remember listening to an NPR program reccently where they tried some really interesting gymnastics to try to say that NRA members want more gun laws, but the NRA is one of the very few examples of orgs that can get their way without straight up buying politicians.
10:09 < aestetix> Especially given that a lot of internet outrage is the digital equivalent of bored housewives getting mad about something happening in another country
10:09 <@oddball> ah... you're talking about using social media.
10:09 <@oddball> I'm still not convinced that politicians pay much attention to social media.  Most are too old to know what it is.
10:10 <@oddball> yep
10:10 < aestetix> oddball: sure. But they will pay attention when one of their aides comes to them and says "hey, there were 10,000 angry messages about this thing that happened, and they all mentioned a zip code in our district"
10:10 <@oddball> You assume that that happens.
10:11 < aestetix> I know it happens for the following reason
10:11 < aestetix> When I was at Shmoocon in 2013, a group of us went to Congress to talk to our reps about the Aaron Swartz stuff
10:11 <@oddball> Best way to influence a politician is to blow up his phone.  A close second is to over flow his physical mail box.
10:11 < aestetix> When I went to mind, I got to meet my rep's legislative assistant, and got his ccard
10:12 < aestetix> From then on, every time something happened, I'd send him an email.
10:12 < aestetix> And he always replied.
10:12 <@oddball> See, that's different.
10:12 < aestetix> Here's the thing. If I told him "hey, you should check out this twitter drama", I think he might consider showing it to my rep
10:12 <@oddball> Direct contact is the way to go.
10:13 < aestetix> Direct contact, combined with the zip code hashtag, will actually work.
10:13 <@oddball> Right, but you are saying that you would have to actively point out the crowd of peasents with torches and pitchforks.
10:14 < aestetix> Well it seems to be possible to point them to sign bullshit petitions
10:15 <@oddball> Oh, and physical petitions tend to be less effective than individual contact, since they know how easy it is to get people to sign anything.
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10:16 < aestetix> It's just amazing how the whole activist community is actually living off the fruits of a system that goes counter to fixing anything.
10:16 < aestetix> Of course, if the issues in politics were fixed, they would have nothing to complain about
10:18 < aestetix> And of course if you bring this up, they reply by accusing you of sexism and microaggressions ;)
10:19 < aestetix> And "oppression"
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10:21 <@oddball> Of course.
10:33 <@oddball> aestetix: This seems appropriate: http://tinyurl.com/hslyjcy
10:33 < PigBot> oddball: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
10:44 <@Evilpig> lol  http://gizmodo.com/fuck-you-matt-novak-and-your-opinion-on-guns-i-hope-yo-1779938452
10:44 < PigBot> Evilpig: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
10:46 <@oddball> Because the use of a gun in a gun free zone in one of the most anti-gun states in the country clearly means that we need more gun laws.
10:48 < aestetix> oh rattle btw
10:49 < aestetix> rattle: can I forward you an email?
10:49 < aestetix> you'll be interested in it
10:49 < aestetix> rattle: what email address
10:51 <@oddball> rofl: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjPl2Y6XEAA1n3m.jpg
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13:29 <@Mirage> Lol..had guys hanging off teh building this morning washing windows.  For some reason after lunch they packed up and left in a hurry.. http://www.intellicast.com/Local/WxMap.aspx?location=USTX1060
13:29 < PigBot> Title: Intellicast - Weather Active Map (at www.intellicast.com) http://tinyurl.com/h6mogmo
13:40 <@Evilpig> cause they were a bunch of pussies?
13:40 <@Evilpig> that looks like nothing
13:45 <@Dolemite> Mirage: I just booked a Carnival Cruise departing from Dallas.
13:48 <@Mirage> Dallas isn't on the coast..that's a neat trick.
13:48 <@Dolemite> After all this rain it might be
13:55 <@Mirage> good point
14:32 <@rattle> HRC is handing Trump his ass right now..
14:38 <@brimstone> don't give it back to him! he's just gonna push it in everyone's face again
15:14 <@Evilpig> Check this ticket I just got
15:14 <@Evilpig> all traffic to 10.107.12.229 re-routed to 10.107.13.27. The A-Rec for xxx.229 can be removed and the A-Rec for xxx.27 can be removed as well. A new A-rec should be created for PIC-VDB02 with the IP address of 10.107.13.27. Please let me know of any questions. Thanks!
15:15 <@Evilpig> this is a dns ticket.
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--- Log opened Thu Jun 02 16:38:31 2016
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 03 00:00:19 2016