--- Log opened Tue May 10 00:00:01 2016
00:28 <@RangerZ> I was figuring out scheduling for the summer (0 credit hours, but it still 'registers' me as a student)
00:29 <@RangerZ> and I realized... I now have 200 semester credit hours... between undergrad and grad school
00:29 <@RangerZ> I don't know to laugh or cry...
01:40 < aestetix> how many degrees is that
01:45 < _NSAKEY> Enough that he'll be in debt slavery for life.
01:45 < aestetix> lol
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03:01 <@RangerZ> aestetix: 3
03:01 <@RangerZ> bachelors, masters, and PhD
03:03 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: nah, my schooling has been paid for since... 2010 or something like that from different grants, research foundations, and a combo of the NSF/DARPA/AFOSR grants
03:03 <@RangerZ> http://www.wpafb.af.mil/afrl/afosr/
03:03 < PigBot> Title: Wright-Patterson Air Force Base - AF Office of Scientific Research (at www.wpafb.af.mil) http://tinyurl.com/7wpu89j
03:05 <@RangerZ> I have some student loans from before then and w since then to help cover cost of living, but I'm still under the 6 digit range (which is still silly, but much better off than most) even after accounting for all interest expected, etc.
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03:14 <@RangerZ> mind you... that is a LOT of money... but I'm not stupid enough to move to the bay area, so anywhere I move to and get a job, making more than 60~70k will actually be a 'livable' wage and will allow for me to pay off my student loan debt relatively quickly
03:17 < cyberanger> RangerZ: that's why I went into truck driving for a little while
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03:18 < cyberanger> +$50k and zero rent, eletric, and car payments (my only utility was a cell phone)
03:18 < cyberanger> just can't beat it
03:19 < cyberanger> Fixed the student debt in a year
03:26 <@RangerZ> I'm already used to living like a popper
03:26 <@RangerZ> so if I 'up' my spending to 40k/yr
03:27 <@RangerZ> and then the rest goes to debt, at most 3~4 years (depending on pay, etc) I'll be done
03:28 <@RangerZ> but more likely I'll extend it out to somewhere around 6~7 years, and buy some property in the meantime and look into building my own (smaller) house
03:34 < aestetix> hmm
03:34 < aestetix> given the quality of things I see coming out of academic
03:34 < aestetix> I could get a grant, spend time playing video games and jerking off, and then shit out something for a conference talk
03:35 < aestetix> hell I wonder how long it will be before there is a school for studying technologists..... for non-technical people
03:36 < aestetix> since it seems too difficult to actually learn tech
03:39 <@RangerZ> aestetix: which academic journals and conf. do you read?
03:39 <@RangerZ> IEEE or ACM?
03:40 <@RangerZ> ohh wait... you read whatever random ones you find online ... because that is going to give you 'fair' evaluation of research, because you and the things you find online randomly won't self-select ...
03:40 < aestetix> RangerZ: any talk from re-publica.de
03:41 < aestetix> RangerZ: or these "technology and society" conferences
03:41 <@RangerZ> well thats your problem
03:41 <@RangerZ> it isn't in english
03:41 < aestetix> lol
03:41 <@RangerZ> all the real conf. are held in english (and I'm not even kidding)
03:41 < aestetix> what about CCC?
03:41 <@RangerZ> at least in CS, engineering, and math
03:41 <@RangerZ> that isn't a real conf.
03:42 <@RangerZ> that is a hacker conv.
03:42 < aestetix> why is it not real
03:42 <@RangerZ> there -is- a difference
03:42 <@RangerZ> is it peer-reviewed by academics/experts in the relative field?
03:42 < aestetix> care to elaborate?
03:42 < aestetix> absolutely
03:43 < aestetix> Although I think the method is different.
03:43 <@RangerZ> has to be double blind
03:43 < aestetix> So what about talks from folks like djb?
03:44 <@RangerZ> as much as I respect defcon/bsides/phreaknic -for what they are- ... they aren't academic in nature
03:44 < aestetix> I never said they were academic.
03:44 < aestetix> Academic != expert
03:44 < aestetix> There is certainly crossover
03:44 < aestetix> djb, matt blaze, and so on
03:45 <@RangerZ> actually you are conflating my usage of 'academic'
03:45 < aestetix> academic = someone involved in academia?
03:45 <@RangerZ> I mean it in the broader sense, not just 'adememia'
03:45 < aestetix> ok
03:47 <@RangerZ> umm...
03:47 <@RangerZ> http://www.crypto.com/research.html
03:47 < PigBot> Title: Matt Blaze - Research Summary & Bio (at www.crypto.com) http://tinyurl.com/2ce33b7
03:47 <@RangerZ> matt blaze (the crypto expert if that is who you mean) has a PhD from princeton
03:48 < aestetix> yes
03:48 < aestetix> and he also goes to events like defcon, hope, and ccc
03:48 <@RangerZ> and?
03:48 <@RangerZ> Doug (my advisor) and myself gave talks at PN
03:48 < aestetix> yeah but that's PN
03:48 < aestetix> and you're not an expert :p
03:49 <@RangerZ> enough of one for PN ;)
03:49 <@RangerZ> sure Defcon and CCC might be the exceptions, but sure as fuck not hope
03:49 <@RangerZ> no one cares about that
03:49 <@RangerZ> -_-
03:49 <@RangerZ> hehe
03:51 <@RangerZ> but seriously, those cons (be they want to be called conventions or confrences) are probably where the largest amount of 'corss-over' exists
03:54 <@RangerZ> but my point still stands, I am not calling those 'academic confrences' and you are
03:54 < aestetix> I never called CCC academic
03:55 < aestetix> how about this. the things I am referring to are.... conferences mostly attended by academics
03:55 <@RangerZ> thats an entire different topic
03:56 < aestetix> what do you call them
03:56 <@RangerZ> I don't have to call them anything, I call them non-academic (in the college/univ sense)
03:57 <@RangerZ> you're the one who is trying to lump conf. organized by hackers/etc together with ones organized by organizations like IEEE and ACM
03:57 < aestetix> does it matter who its organized by if the material is good?
03:58 <@RangerZ> my point has been (from the start) that you are over-generaliziing because you have a limited scope of input
03:58 <@RangerZ> again, I never said they don't both have 'good' material
03:58 <@RangerZ> but... the FORMAT and the methodology DOES matter
03:59 < aestetix> one thing I never understood
03:59 < aestetix> the whole bit of submitting an actual paper, and having some "advisor" read the paper
03:59 <@RangerZ> thats the 'double blind' portion
03:59 <@RangerZ> without it, it is just a popularity contest
04:00 < aestetix> why should I care what the "advisor" thinks?
04:01 <@RangerZ> I've never heard the term 'advisor' used in that context, there are variations on it, but again you're missing the bigger point
04:01 <@RangerZ> there are 'committees' that do the actual organization of a conf.
04:02 <@RangerZ> and then there are "advisors" (if you want to use that term) that actually 'evaluate the papers'
04:02 <@RangerZ> I've even done that
04:02 < aestetix> oh that is what you mean by double blind
04:02 <@RangerZ> the 'grader' has no idea who the 'graded' is
04:05 <@RangerZ> and vice versa
04:05 <@RangerZ> it allows for more frank responses, + critical revies
04:05 <@RangerZ> reviews*
04:05 <@RangerZ> and I uttterly eviscerated one of the papers I wrote
04:05 <@RangerZ> reviewed**
04:05  * RangerZ needs sleep
04:05 <@RangerZ> (I wrote long crital reviews of each paper), which is where 'wrote' came into my mind
04:06 <@RangerZ> it wasn't a well thought out paper, and its methodology in the paper was lacking
04:06 <@RangerZ> so I voted for it to be 'likely-rejected' (that was our scoring system)
04:06 < aestetix> and the exciting moral of the story?
04:07 <@RangerZ> it allows for a better screening of material (when well ran and 'fair')
04:07 < aestetix> whose paper was it
04:07 <@RangerZ> no idea
04:07 <@RangerZ> that is the point
04:07 < aestetix> :/
04:07 <@RangerZ> the authors names were compeltely removed from the paper
04:07 <@RangerZ> the paper was NOT published
04:07 < aestetix> I was hoping you'd say like bruce schneier
04:07 <@RangerZ> it didn't make it through the screening
04:08 < aestetix> so most likely one of your students ;)
04:08 <@RangerZ> I -do- know for a fact that he's had several papers rejected
04:08 <@RangerZ> but everyone has who submits papers
04:08 <@RangerZ> IIRC he's written about it before (perhaps a blog?... or in one of his books... I forget)
04:09 < aestetix> so you're like wikileaks, never revealed a source
04:10  * RangerZ shrugs
04:10 <@RangerZ> no... that is another reason I use advanced tools for citation tracking... b/c I'm personally bad at remembering details like citations, etc.
04:11 <@RangerZ> but anyways... sleep time... for an hour or two :/
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06:34 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:34 <@rattle> grumble grumble
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07:16  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
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08:18 < aestetix> donald trump
08:35 <@opticron> triggered
08:53 <@rattle> penis
09:01 < aestetix> rattle: msg
09:28 <@rattle> MSG gets a really bad rap, imoh.  Great stuff when used on vegetables.  Just keep it away from eggs and complex proteins.
09:39 < aestetix> so, anyone have a favorite curses based hex editor?
09:39 < aestetix> actually maybe vim will work
09:43 < aestetix> hahahhaha
09:43 < aestetix> https://github.com/BlitzKraft/vimDDR
09:43 < PigBot> Title: GitHub - BlitzKraft/vimDDR (at github.com) http://tinyurl.com/jxeqcd9
09:46 <@rattle> Flashback..  1994.  Hex editing pascal binaries to change strings.  Using a hex editor written in pascal to do it.  The hex editor was formally known as the "hex edited, hex edited, hex editor".
09:47 <@rattle> In pascal compiled for dos, string length was determined by the string's leading byte, so any string could be changed as long as it was shorter than the original.
09:48 <@rattle> Boy o' boy, I'm glad I did acid back in the day.  The gift that keeps on giving.
09:49 < aestetix> Do you do acid now?
09:50 <@rattle> No.  I'm a CISO.  That's enough to ensure I live in an alternate reality filled with patterns and confusion.
09:51 < aestetix> How long has it been since you did acid?
09:51 <@rattle> I have no idea.  I'd have to think about it.  Well over a decade or so.
09:51 < aestetix> what a shame
09:51 < aestetix> how much did you do?
09:52 <@rattle> In the 90's?  All of it.
09:52 < aestetix> What other drugs did you do?
09:53 <@rattle> Yeah.  We're not having this conversation.  Hunter S Thompson might as well have been my life coach.  Let's just leave it at that.
09:54 < aestetix> Did you do any drugs at phreaknic?
09:57 < aestetix> silence means yes
09:57 <@rattle> BTW, off topic..  Is there any freely available peer reviewed research based on empirical observation to support the assertion that bears shit in the woods?
09:57 < aestetix> rattle: there are episodes of Yogi Bear
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10:10 <@Evilpig> rattle: I don't know about research papers but I have seen bear shit in teh woods and unless you can make a plausible argument that someone is collecting bear scat and distributing it out in the woods from some other location I will go on to say that I don't think research is necessary on the topic
10:11 <@Evilpig> if you'd liek to know if humans shit int he woods.  there is room for research, but if you've ever met a hippie or seen a homeless dude in NYC you know they'll shit anywhere
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10:14 <@rattle> Yes, I concur.  I believe it is a safe assumption that bears shit in the woods.  Thank you for your input.  You are a gentleman and scholar.
10:15 <@Dolemite> However, I assert that the woods are not the only locations where bears shit.
10:16 <@rattle> Fair assertion.  That issue just wasn't in scope.
10:16 <@Dolemite> Hypothesis:  Bears shit wherever the hell they want.
10:16 <@rattle> Not so sure.  There are in fact strong security controls placed around bears in proximity to humans.
10:18 <@rattle> For instance, if I'm at the zoo, and a bear wants to tear my head off and shit down my neck, there are controls in place to protect me.  The bear does not have carte blanche to shit wherever it wants.
10:20 <@Dolemite> I assert that if the bear wants it bad enough, he'll find a way to make it happen.  In your example, the controls in place are basically behavior deterrants.
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10:36 <@rattle> I'm not sure I agree.  Iron bars seem like more of a denial control than a deterrent or degradation control.
10:41 <@Dolemite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFmqIxStDXY
10:41 < PigBot> Title: Grizzly bear shatters glass barrier at Minnesota Zoo - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/zzxqteq
10:43 <@rattle> But, the control did still hold, even though it was damaged.
10:43 <@Dolemite> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU_0YzLQRA8
10:43 < PigBot> Title: Black Bear Takes a Shit in My Yard - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/h3zfpyk
10:43 <@rattle> I do concede that in the absence of a positive security control environment, the bear would be able to do whatever the fuck it wants.
10:43 <@Dolemite> It's amazing the number of hits on youtube with the search phrase of 'bear shits'
10:44 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: good job, you're gonna start getting ads for bear repellant or gummy bears now
10:45 <@Dolemite> I like gummy bears and I like camping, so bear repellent could come in handy
10:45 <@Evilpig> or maybe I should thank rattle for getting you ads of bear products.
10:45 <@Evilpig> damnit.  I left my fancy cup out in the truck. guess I better go get it.
11:11 <@Dolemite> TOUR GUIDES - STOP CALLING THE AIR HANDLERS "COOLING TOWERS"
11:11 <@Dolemite> Yes, shouting for emphasis
12:10 <@rattle> Waaaaaaahhhhh..  I'm not allowed to pilot my drone in Peterson Hall..  Waaaaahhhh.
12:11 <@rattle> I can't find anywhere I can practice flying in the city..
12:11 <@rattle> Like, I got some serious first world problems.
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12:38 < aestetix> donald trump
13:11 <@opticron> trump tangential: http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/10/11648388/budweiser-renaming-beer-america (make america great again)
13:11 < PigBot> opticron: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
13:15 <@opticron> I think PigBot's byte count there is off, but the HTML title is right around 20K into the damn thing
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13:19 <@Evilpig> http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/10/11648388/budweiser-renaming-beer-america
13:19 <@Evilpig> hrmm.  guess it's still ignoring me.  heh
13:21 <@opticron> http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/10/11648388/budweiser-renaming-beer-america
13:21 < PigBot> opticron: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 30480 bytes.
13:21 <@opticron> weird
13:21 <@Evilpig> just a shittily optimized site.  a growing trend
13:22 <@opticron> the entirety of that page is around 275K
13:22 <@opticron> insane
14:30 < dasunt> My $300+ transaction that disappeared from my bank account is now back to pending...
14:36  * dasunt would assume the bank's software would not lose transactions, but WTF does he know.
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17:30 <@RangerZ> dasunt: obviously they are just purposely fucking with you
17:30 <@RangerZ> because bank software allows for manual overrides
17:30  * RangerZ wonders who dasunt pissed off at their bank
17:33 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/10/charges-filed-against-alameda-county-deputies-who-beat-man-on-camera/
17:34 <@RangerZ> actually meant for asterix but figured you'd 'appreciate' it too
17:36 <@RangerZ> [Gascón noted during the press conference Tuesday that in addition to the surveillance video clip provided to the public defender’s office, one of the deputies involved in the beating accidentally triggered his body camera, inadvertently filming a portion of the incident.]
17:36 <@RangerZ> 'accidently triggered'... I'm sorry... but cops shouldn't be able to turn off the damn cameras unless they are in a bathroom stall
17:38 <@RangerZ> also.. this camera has the best fucking mic I've ever heard for a security cam like this....
18:22 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIRtFE6aIc
18:22 < PigBot> Title: Honest Trailers - Deadpool (Feat. Deadpool) - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hcgtoje
18:22 <@RangerZ> haha... that is actually pretty funny
--- Log closed Wed May 11 00:00:09 2016