--- Log opened Sun Apr 10 00:00:01 2016
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06:50 < aestetix_> damn it
06:50 < aestetix_> my torrents are taking too long to download
07:35 <@RangerZ> rattle: +1 internet for that vid
08:08 < aestetix_> what vid
09:31 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSx4DGBstYA
09:31 < PigBot> Title: SpaceX CRS-8 Landing - "Im On A Boat" - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/ztelcjc
09:33 <@RangerZ> but here:
09:33 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOyOULWKUo
09:33 < PigBot> Title: Corporate Greed Isn’t New. The Internet Is Just the New Playing Field, says Douglas Rushkoff - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/zdjdnhm
09:34 < aestetix_> wow for once you posted something that wasn't TYT
09:38 <@RangerZ> I have a VERY long list of YT subscriptions
09:38 <@RangerZ> I only post stuff in here that I think is relevant to 2600 audience
09:38 <@RangerZ> or... that I think is amusing enough, lol
09:42 <@RangerZ> so...
09:42 <@RangerZ> http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/05/pf/college/visa-scam-fake-university/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom
09:42 < PigBot> Title: Fake university uncovered a visa scam - Apr. 5, 2016 (at money.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/zmy3qf8
09:42 <@RangerZ> I sent that to an Indian who is coming to Vandy next semester
09:42 <@RangerZ> lol
09:45 <@RangerZ> aestetix_: you in particular will appreciate that video, its all about SillyValley
09:47 <@RangerZ> he directly calls ycombinator being the same as welfare checks being converted into lottery tickets
09:47 <@RangerZ> lol
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10:45 <@sasquatc3> http://allpriorart.com/
10:45 < PigBot> Title: All Prior Art Algorithmically generated prior art (at allpriorart.com) http://tinyurl.com/juvyhtu
10:54 < aestetix_> well, that was probably the most fucked up movie I have ever seen
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11:25 <@RangerZ> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3053529/car-tech/a-fleet-of-self-driving-trucks-rumbles-across-europe.html
11:25 < PigBot> Title: A fleet of self-driving trucks rumbles across Europe | Computerworld (at www.computerworld.com) http://tinyurl.com/h9g7vjq
11:26 <@RangerZ> had fun posting that to facebook, basically slamming the 'truck guys' I know
11:26 <@RangerZ> sure... one literally owns a monster truck... but that doesn't mean shit when it comes to automation and cyber-physical systems
11:26 <@RangerZ> my masters is literally in that subject
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11:36 <@opticron> aestetix_, which one?
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14:10 <@Catonic> Word RangerZ
14:10 <@RangerZ> about?
14:11 <@Catonic> trucks
14:11 <@Catonic> automation
14:11 <@RangerZ> ahh yeah
14:11 <@Catonic> I've had a few truck driving uncles, and I've quite a few miles under my belt, both at rediculous speed and the speed limit or under...
14:11 <@RangerZ> look.... Automation of the Auto delivery industry will basically negate _every_ job we've created in the past 8 years...
14:12 <@RangerZ> because "truck driver" is the most common job in something like 48 out of 50 states
14:12 <@Catonic> I get the labor part of it, because it's the same argument the railroads made... but four-wheelers are some distracted, chaos-causing monkeys that result in 99% of the problems on the highway... and computers are finally fast enough to react to the variable stimulus that driving is.
14:12 <@RangerZ> Think Farmer in Iowa and HillBilly in Kentucky
14:13 <@Catonic> The human being lacks the ability to effectively react to changes above 35 MPH.
14:13 <@RangerZ> that is when they are paying 100% attention
14:13 <@RangerZ> which the human body can only do for 30~60 minutes at a time
14:14 <@Catonic> right, that's in an autocross class, where it's a closed environment and taking the vehicle to the limits with an instructor there with experience.
14:14 <@Catonic> stimulants can help, but the person will have a "microsleep" of attention span in that range
14:14 <@Catonic> road hyponosis.
14:15 <@Catonic> but yeah, at some point, human beings are fallible creatures and the way to improve outcomes and results over time is by consistent automation.
14:16 <@Catonic> and from personal experience, I find it very fucking funny watching the computer make the decision to fail/stop.
14:17 <@Catonic> I had an engine separate at 3,500 RPM between pistons 1/2 and 3/4 of a V8 due to a broken crankshaft under load.
14:17 <@Catonic> oil pressure lights come on, oil quantity, service engine soon... then there were something like nine lights lit on the left side of the speedo
14:18 <@Catonic> computer kills spark, hangs it up, all the lights go away... then service engine soon is set and remains.
14:20 <@RangerZ> sure more work will need to be done to handle snow/etc, but [ we'll get there ] quicker than not
14:20 <@Catonic> so I guess the question is -- in a world where imperfect labor is to be reduced at all costs by mechanization, what jobs are to remain for the humans to do?
14:20 <@RangerZ> yeah, error detection is great... but fault detection and recovery automatically in less than a split second is better
14:20 <@RangerZ> Catonic: service industries
14:21 <@RangerZ> the rich pay people to be monkeys for them, so that they can look down on us
14:21 <@RangerZ> also... the arts
14:21 <@RangerZ> and perhaps the sciences
14:21 <@Catonic> You hit a certain point where you combine finite element analysis with a market-watching robot and now you've got five designs for a bridge based on today's cost of materials.
14:21 <@RangerZ> and the -very last- job is programmers
14:22 <@RangerZ> Catonic: ISIS (the other one) made software that the DoD is using to design amphibious APCs
14:22 <@RangerZ> it basically is acting as the middleware for conversion between -every- major software suite out there
14:22 <@RangerZ> make a cad drawing of a part, export it into a materials engine, render it, then export it to a physics engine
14:23 <@Catonic> so I think what you're saying is that there's always a market for the jester and the flunky.
14:23 <@RangerZ> simulate its strength, rigidity, etc.
14:23 <@Catonic> *lackey.
14:23 <@Catonic> yes, exactly.
14:23 <@RangerZ> and then the REAL bitch of it... comes when you build libraries of 'parts'
14:24 <@RangerZ> and then you have it 'randomly' throw together known parts in random sizes/etc.
14:24 <@Catonic> "It will cost us $0.5M to make it out of steel, $1M to make it out of aluminum, and $10M to make it out of titanium." "Make it out of steel-armor coated titanium." "Sir, that's not in the support matrix!"
14:24 <@RangerZ> and have it learning-algorithmly design a vehicle that meets certain specs
14:25 <@rattle> The thing re jobs and self driving trucks is a big deal.  That's actually getting attention in alot of circles.
14:25 <@Catonic> yeah, weighting the cost of CNC every part vs investment casting with CNC finishing.
14:25 <@Catonic> which the latter, btw, is how Ruger makes firearms as cheaply as possible while as precise as possible.
14:25 <@RangerZ> rattle: most of the classes I took for my masters actually hit on this topic (whether I liked it or not... :/)
14:26 <@RangerZ> and believe you me... we're past the point where its economical
14:26 <@Catonic> I think we need to seriously consider mixed-mode systems of carriage and freight. Being able to go from rails to roads and back again automatically will speed up a lot of freight movement.
14:26 <@rattle> It's called a shipping container.
14:26 <@Catonic> the fact that we have one set of rules for rail and one set of rules for roads limits the ability to make the best use of resources.
14:26 <@RangerZ> rattle: I meant the vehicle itself, not the containers it is shipping, but yeah
14:26 <@rattle> Rail has been changing alot.  That's sorta going on.
14:27 <@rattle> It's just really slow.
14:27 <@Catonic> And we can only put so much weight on rubber and concrete.
14:27 <@rattle> Building and extending rail lines is tough, and we need to do alot of it.
14:27 <@RangerZ> rattle: not like the US Gov't offered to give every state money to do that.... ohh wait...
14:27 <@Catonic> I've been watching; PTC has caused a bunch of railroads to go out and get licenses at 219 MHz and 928 MHz for container scanning and train control.
14:28 <@rattle> Hey, the NE Corridor is making money.. :)
14:28 <@RangerZ> if I could ride the train to Cleveland I would
14:28 <@Catonic> Amtrak does well where they own the tracks. There NS and CSX do, they don't fare so well.
14:28 <@Catonic> but I think that needs to be a multi-prong solution.
14:28 <@rattle> Amtrak is strangled in regulation.  In the places where we can actually do european/asian train approaches, their hands are tied.
14:29 <@rattle> Like, the Acela is a cluster fuck design..  It's heavy as hell.
14:29 <@Catonic> Back when streetcars were the thing, there were streetcar freight services that used the tracks to deliver what today is handled by Less-than-truckload (LTL) shippers today.
14:30 <@Catonic> rail transport is a complicated thing as well. you want to keep the cost of the trainset down, but you have to be able to provide 180kW of heat per car for going to Canada in winter, and 80kW of AC in summer.
14:30 <@rattle> There are "safety" regulations that make trains like the Acela heavy energy consuming tanks, when they should be nice light low power needles..
14:30 <@RangerZ> Catonic: I didn't realize this but apparently GM bought up a lot of the streetcars around the nation
14:30 <@RangerZ> and then raised the prices to the point where it wasn't viable
14:30 <@RangerZ> and then "had to" close them
14:30 <@Catonic> add into that the fact that making the locomotive lighter doesn't improve traction (physics) and you see why things are as they are.
14:30 <@rattle> LA was the center of that..
14:31 <@Catonic> because concentrating all of the electrical locomotion and braking means that reliability goes up since unmotored axles rarely have issues.
14:31 <@RangerZ> and before desegregation, the busses in the south were the most commonly used form of transit
14:31 <@Catonic> RangerZ: as were the streetcars before them.
14:31 <@Catonic> Birmingham was involved in the GM-Freightliner Streetcar conspiracy.
14:31 <@Catonic> as well as civil rights.
14:31 <@RangerZ> which obviously means... just de-de-segregrate the busses and the southerners would start using them again
14:32 <@Catonic> Through a mutual hobby, I know a gentleman who had a ring-side seat to that. His father hosted Dr. King when he was in Birmingham.
14:32 <@RangerZ> wait... that would imply that the former confederacy is still racist...
14:32 <@Catonic> Bull Connor was just the stubborn asshole they needed to make the issue, and boy, did he perform.
14:32 <@RangerZ> (not that the North, esp big cities like boston arn't racist too)
14:33 <@Catonic> the fundamental part is that human beings are -ist as a function of how our brains relate to having notions or memories of a number of individuals in it... also known as "monkeyspace" .. there's a more scientific name for it.
14:34 <@Catonic> anyway, BHM's streetcar deal worked out because transit was the domain of private companies, and BHM had a private electric company.
14:34 <@RangerZ> actually I think things will start to actually fix themselves when we get ride-sharing auto-driving vehicles
14:34 <@RangerZ> pay a monthly fee of 100$ or something, and then a per mile fee
14:35 <@RangerZ> but you only pay for when you -use- the vehicle
14:35 <@rattle> The DC metro is totally fucked these days.
14:35 <@Catonic> the sale of land was a big thing, and since the area was settled or developed before the advent of the car, landowners setup streetcar or rail lines to get to areas of interest, like a nearby lake.
14:35 <@RangerZ> zipcar, lyft, and uber are ALL working on basically that exact tech
14:35 <@rattle> They are actively talking about shutting lines down for a few months to conduct maintenance and repairs.  They totally boggled the maintenance the past three decades.  The system is falling appart.
14:35 <@Catonic> the Taxi guys need to just license that tech and integrate it to taxi dispatch.
14:36 <@Catonic> rattle
14:36 <@rattle> That's sorta what's happened in NYC.
14:36 <@RangerZ> rattle: as long as it doesn't become like boston's "the big dig"
14:36 <@RangerZ> what... 7 years?
14:36 <@Catonic> rattle: and that's inexcuseable except for a few reasons: one, politicians get photo ops for new things and two, no one wants to pay raising maintenance costs.
14:36 <@rattle> Many of the cars are both Uber, Lyft, and private at the same time.  The big differentiation for taxi's is point-of-sale in the vehicle, and that they suck.
14:37 <@rattle> Via is becoming a big deal in NYC, quickly..
14:37 <@RangerZ> Catonic: the tota bitch of it is... NYC would have -ZERO- money problems if they just got rid of their cap on realestate tax
14:37 <@rattle> I actually really like Via.  I use it all the time.
14:37 <@RangerZ> what is it... over 250k you don't pay any more tax?
14:37 <@RangerZ> tahts total and complete BS
14:37 <@Catonic> there's a factor there too which is that taxi regs say the car must be X number of years old, they buy the car at auction, run it senseless and then use the parts to fix other cars...
14:38 <@Catonic> and they rent the car for 24 hours to an individual and tell him he can answer all of the calls he gets in 24 hours... which negates the ability of the driver to effectively manage sleep and call volumes.
14:38 <@rattle> Actually, the taxi companies in NYC are going hardcore into hybrids and stuff like that to cut operational costs.  The fleet is very new.
14:39 <@Catonic> then you get other stuff, like the taxi drivers hanging out at the airport looking for a good $40 fare or being stuck in the airport queue unable to take a fare elsewhere.
14:39 <@rattle> The moder day NYC taxi cab is a Prius.
14:39 <@Catonic> it's a system that human beings have structured to be difficult and gamed every possible way.
14:39 <@Catonic> rattle: I remember when people just started catching onto that in LAS.
14:39 <@rattle> Or to be more accurate, a Prius that when you are in it, feels more like being in the back of a cop car..
14:40 <@Catonic> I've never sat in the back of a Prius, and I can't imagine making the back of a compact car any more confining that it already is.
14:40 <@rattle> I've heard the phrase "shit, my phone is dead.  i have to take a taxi." sooo many times.
14:40 <@RangerZ> rattle: I'm actually surprised that more cars haven't gone for that 'minority report' aerodynamics look
14:41 <@RangerZ> because it really 'is' the best design
14:41 <@RangerZ> still butt ugly... but works best, lol
14:41 <@Catonic> RangerZ: limitations on the effectiveness of various designs... Basically, a rolling igloo is good, unless you're in a line of traffic and then it makes more turbulence.
14:41 <@Catonic> that's where something like the Aztec works out, or the Prius's abbreviated tear-drop look.
14:42 <@rattle> I hate taxi's so much.  In particular, the god damn meter.  I hate sitting in the car being forced to watch it tick up.
14:43 <@rattle> I hate the exchange of money or card swiping at the end of the trip.  Everything about the experience sucks.
14:43 <@rattle> I very much like the whole Uber, Lyft, Via, etc type stuff.
14:44 <@RangerZ> and the funniest/saddest part is... taxis SHOULD/COULD be like that
14:44 <@RangerZ> but they refuse to modernize
14:44 <@rattle> Snap..  Via is doing Chicago now too.
14:44 <@rattle> You can call taxis through Uber in NYC, Boston, and a few other places.  They are sorta trying.  They just suck.
14:45 <@RangerZ> via is like uber?
14:45 <@Catonic> I'm thinking... give me something like chair that turns into a recliner, turns into a bed, in a bullet-proof box and you have a personal transportation module.
14:45 <@RangerZ> hadn't heard of it before now
14:45 <@rattle> It's a pure rideshare thing.  You summon a Via, it will pick you up within two blocks of where you are, and drop you off within two blocks of where you are going.  It's $5 or under each trip.
14:45 <@Catonic> Add a bathroom to every train car and a shower and you have a pod that can move from truck-like transportation to rail for various needs.
14:46 <@Catonic> bus, rail, plane, etc... you still have your "pod" and you're responsible for cleaning, customizing, etc.
14:46 <@RangerZ> Catonic: considering I actually priced out buying an ultra-light aircraft for flying back to NE Ohio... I would _kill_ for a car that reclines into a bed, and auto drives me where I want overnight
14:46 <@rattle> A stagecoast on rails, basically.
14:46 <@Catonic> and if you're afraid of brown people or people with guns, you can leave it locked.
14:47 <@Catonic> RangerZ: exactly. And why make that decision when you can just move the pod to a train car and travel the most economically weight possible.
14:47 <@rattle> One thing is for sure..  The self driving car thing is coming.
14:47 <@Catonic> and self-flying as well.
14:47 <@RangerZ> also... ultralight aircraft have 2 main limiting factors... 1) weight limit of 300 llbs or so, 2) they only go about 60 MPH
14:47 <@rattle> There are services like Beacon Air..
14:47 <@Catonic> I'm not putting up with any nanny-car tech except for one reason -- self-driving. Because that removes any sort of reason to stop me from moving.
14:47 <@Catonic> and I can disable mics and video in car.
14:48 <@Catonic> RangerZ: at which point your advantages are only direct routes (flying around no-fly zones) and lack of congestion.
14:49 <@RangerZ> Catonic: yeah, except Nashville to NE Ohio is basically a cuved 'straight shot' anyways
14:49 <@RangerZ> curved*
14:49 <@Catonic> rattle: pretty much a stagecoach, but leveraging that vehicles are already going to X place from Y place.
14:49 <@RangerZ> and you would have avoid airports.... which would actually make it harder
14:49 <@rattle> Blade has potential.  They've got backers that want to see them be successful too..
14:49 <@Catonic> trivial for a modern autopilot.
14:50 <@Catonic> but aviation has been due for an overhaul for a long time.
14:50 <@RangerZ> yeah, but for the price range I was looking at, it had no autopilot
14:50 <@RangerZ> hell most had no cockpit
14:50 <@RangerZ> lol
14:50 <@Catonic> my 1995 Chevy Caprice's engine controller can do -138 ft to 14,000 ft in a single day and there isn't a FADEC that does that in aviation until you're in turbines.
14:50 <@RangerZ> basically hangglider with prop
14:50 <@RangerZ> and a seat
14:50 <@Catonic> sport pilot?
14:51 <@RangerZ> the 'ultralight' class of planes which don't require getting fully training, etc.
14:51 <@Catonic> translation: if you get into the shit, get down quick before it gets real.
14:52 <@RangerZ> it was really never a 'real' investment option, I was just looking to see what the options were
14:52 <@RangerZ> and basically they were all shit
14:52 <@RangerZ> I was better off just doing an 'express' greyhound ride over night
14:53 <@RangerZ> got wifi and power outlet in all their new buses
14:53 <@RangerZ> and enough leg room to where even I had 3~4 inches of extrea knee room, being ~6foot depending on boots, etc.
14:56 <@RangerZ> but with the Model E... ohh I'm sorry the model 3
14:56 <@RangerZ> from tesla... and auto pilot already existing in-part on the roadster
14:57 <@RangerZ> and MOST IMPORTANTLY the TSA's ruling that AI can count as "driver" for laws that require a "driver" 'behind the wheel'
14:57 <@RangerZ> we're getting -real- self driving cars quickly
14:59 <@RangerZ> NTBS**
14:59 <@RangerZ> NTSB****
14:59  * RangerZ goes and takes that nap
15:02 <@RangerZ> but before I go... have fun with this http://freepsncodes.cc/
15:02 < PigBot> Title: Your Source For FREE PSN Card Codes (at freepsncodes.cc) http://tinyurl.com/hkfep5t
15:31 <@Catonic> word.
16:50 <@RangerZ> wow... I can't even imagine how fast this lawsuit got filed http://twinfinite.net/2016/04/real-handgun-nintendo-zapper/
16:50 < PigBot> Title: Real Handgun Created in The Image of Famous Nintendo Zapper (at twinfinite.net) http://tinyurl.com/zodhtz6
16:51 <@RangerZ> Nintendo will fire a PR person when they anger angry misogynist mobs online, let alone kill fan made 3D High Res remakes of zelda levels
17:37 <@Catonic> yeah, lots of drama but I saw it weeks ago
17:38 <@Catonic> considering the zapper was specifically designed NOT to look like a gun, it's just a lot of WHAT WHAT WHAT from the anti-gun crowd.
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22:22 < aestetix_> opticron: the movie is called "Inside"
22:22 < aestetix_> it's a french horror film from 2007
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--- Log opened Sun Apr 10 22:55:55 2016
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23:15 <@RangerZ> Catonic: I approached it more from Nintendo being fucking re-donkey-lous about copyrights/etc.
23:16 <@RangerZ> I'm all for well regulated state militias having firearms, just like the constition states
23:16 <@RangerZ> ;)
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23:19 < aestetix_> I can't beleive I'm downloading Windows 98
--- Log closed Mon Apr 11 00:00:07 2016