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--- Log opened Mon Mar 21 05:45:16 2016
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06:29 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:31  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:43 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbINrdyAXlE
07:43 < PigBot> Title: Orbans historic speech puts Hungary on war footing - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/zdqqmqa
07:56 <@Dolemite> Ah, one year ago today several of us got our picture taken at the Old Fashioned Photo place in Gatlinburg during GeekNIC.
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09:12 <@Mirage> ls
09:12 <@Mirage> oops..
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10:10 < dasunt> I'm thinking about computer reputation systems, and how to break them.
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10:11 <@jb7od> like RBLs for mail stuff?
10:12 < dasunt> jb7od: More related to a proposal I read awhile back that someone needs to develop a cryptocurrency with reputation built in.
10:13 <@jb7od> I hear what you're saying, but I don't see how a reputation score is helpful right there. Does it affect value?
10:15 < dasunt> Maybe.  I believe the proposal I read had the ability to "taint" coins with a bad reputation.  Mind you, in the cryptocurrency universe, a reputation may be different to society at large - e.g. a contraband dealer may have a good reputation if they reliably deliver contraband after payment.
10:17 < dasunt> Alternatively, one could attach reputations to wallets.
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10:18 <@jb7od> I guess the customer gets the ability to tell on the frontend how likely it is that their contraband will arrive on time and correctly?
10:18 <@oddball> Reputation based systems only work if everyone is working in good faith.  Think about a reputation system once SJWs get involved.
10:19 < dasunt> jb7od: The coin-taint proposal had something like outstanding reputation liens on the coins.  So Alice gives Bob a coin with a reputation lien.  Bob fulfills whatever task Alice just paid him for.  Alice cancels the lien.
10:19 <@oddball> Or just look at some book reviews on Amazon of "the wrong kind" of authors.
10:20 <@jb7od> Maybe it's like bankruptcy and when you're married your spouse can develop a cocaine and porn problem and take your money reputation down to one star
10:21 <@jb7od> so you have to put a $200 downpayment on a candy bar and they hold ten days.
10:22 < dasunt> oddball: Society has functioned with such social shaming for thousands of years.  It's only recently that the population has been large enough and mobile enough that we've been able to become effectively anonymous.  Now technology (for good or bad) is bringing us back to all the joys of living in a tiny village.  It's just that instead of the nearest farmer deciding not to do business with you because he doesn't like you, we dox your employer because of some
10:23 < dasunt> So a reputation system, even when used as a club to support individuals various biases, should still work.
10:24 <@oddball> The thing is that social shaming everyone that doesn't line up to exactly your ideas could lead to you being tossed out of the village in the past.
10:25 <@oddball> There were consequences to spreading shit where it shouldn't be spread.
10:25 <@jb7od> I suppose that's right. A currency change wouldn't affect the aggregate bigotry level anywhere.
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10:26 < dasunt> oddball: Oh I agree, but most of society is fine with that to some degree.
10:27 <@jb7od> I've seen a lot of situations with folks I've known who've ebayed before, who for whatever reason, sold something to someone who was an unreasonable asshole and dented up the reputation of an innocent.
10:28 < dasunt> jb7od: That's one of the problems I ran into when thinking about reputation.  When Alice is trying to build reputation, how do you design it so that Bob can't pose as a purchaser and then blackmail Alice in exchange for a good reputation?
10:28 <@oddball> Or, at least, people would know to put less weight in a certain asshat's oppinion.
10:29 < dasunt> Alternatively, how can you prevent people from selling reputation?  Alice pays Bob for a good reputation by giving him a coin.
10:32 < dasunt> Or does that matter?  Could you design a system where the benefit of the increased reputation is less than the value of a transaction?  If so, can you engineer it against attacks where Alice and Bob trade a coin back and forth, increasing each other's reputation?
10:33 < _NSAKEY>  This sounds like something that could be fixed on an ad hoc basis with assassination markets.
10:34 <@oddball> heh
10:34 < dasunt> _NSAKEY: Don't be so extreme - a simple kneecapping market would probably work just as effectively.  :p
10:34 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: But then they can still type bullshit.
10:35 < dasunt> True.  I'd assume pain is a valuable teaching tool, but some won't learn the lesson.
10:36 < _NSAKEY> Instead of a kneecapping, this could work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa1IsxGVuc
10:36 < PigBot> Title: Casino (5/10) Movie CLIP - Cheaters Justice (1995) HD - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/pclwcq9
10:37  * dasunt now has the idea for a SF short story where social mores are maintained via an assault/assasination market.  
10:45 <@jb7od> dasunt: I can definitely see the dilemma there. Apart from the bigotry factor, there needs to be some accomidation for the common troll.
10:47 < dasunt> It may also need to be resistant to state attacks.
10:49 <@jb7od> State meaning government infuence over the rating? Like "Everybody in Pakistan gets a 0 because fuck Pakistan!"
10:59 < _NSAKEY> You would also need to figure out a way to keep the Chinese from monopolizing it like they did with bitcoin's blockchain.
11:00 < _NSAKEY> That solution probably shouldn't be left to what amounts to assassination or terrorism.
11:40 < dasunt> It's an interesting problem, isn't it?
11:45 < dasunt> http://www.sdcexec.com/news/12184082/crude-mystery-where-did-800000-barrels-of-oil-go <- Last year, about 800,000 barrels of oil a day disappeared from the global accounting of oil.
11:45 < PigBot> Title: Crude Mystery: Where Did 800,000 Barrels of Oil Go? (at www.sdcexec.com) http://tinyurl.com/h9agjfn
11:49 < aestetix> god
11:49 < aestetix> twiter has gotten to the point where you can't even mention the word "patriarchy" without angering the libtards
11:52 < dasunt> Does anyone know what "patriarchy" means?
11:53 <@jb7od> Form of gov't run by our Dads?
11:54 < dasunt> ;)
11:54 <@jb7od> Which sounds like it would suck in a really non-partisan way.
11:57 < dasunt> Ain't that the US federal government originally in a nutshell?  Maybe not dads, but older men in general.  The presidency has an lower age limit around 35, right?
11:57 < aestetix> dasunt: no
11:58 < aestetix> dasunt: the person was making some rant against censorship and blaming the patriarchy
11:58 < aestetix> I'm like.... you know, it's more WASP and Puritan culture....
11:58 < dasunt> aestetix: Well, that may make sense.
11:58 < aestetix> and she made a rather nasty reply, and I immediately made my twitter account private
11:58 < aestetix> even though she's a good friend I know IRL and such
11:59 < aestetix> because it wasn't her I'm scared of
11:59 < dasunt> Are you afraid of the matriarchy?
11:59 < aestetix> I'm afraid of the sjwerarchy
12:01 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: You need to quit associating with people of ill repute.
12:04 < aestetix> ok /part
12:07 < _NSAKEY> It does make me seriously wonder. If you dislike SJWs so much, why even bother being around them?
12:11  * dasunt thinks aestetix needs to work "chronocentrist" as an insult into an argument with SJWers.
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12:16 < dasunt> Come on aestetix, go down the rabbit hole.  There's far more things to get upset about.  Out-SJW the SJWers.
12:18 <@RangerZ> interesting http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29665899/scotus-denies-oklahoma-and-nebraskas-proposed-lawsuit-against
12:18 < PigBot> Title: Supreme Court denies Oklahoma and Nebraska challenge to Colorado pot - The Denver Post (at www.denverpost.com) http://tinyurl.com/gv2yzmj
12:18 < dasunt> What's the legal argument?
12:19 <@Dagmar> Fuck that site's layout
12:19 <@RangerZ> "the two -get off my law- states' argument" ?
12:19 <@RangerZ> dasunt: basically "how dare they make money off something we aren't" is my guess
12:20 <@RangerZ> [The plaintiff States have alleged significant harms to their sovereign interests caused by another State.]
12:21 < dasunt> That seems like a weak argument, but I'll admit I'm not an expert in interstate law.
12:21 <@RangerZ> it is
12:21 <@RangerZ> unless we have 5 conservative justices on the SCOTUS, that ruling would never get come down any other way
12:22 <@RangerZ> just like how the 2000 suit of Bush V Gore was such bad legal gymnastics, that they even said 'this does NOT set precedent' (which I don't know if they -can- even do that
12:22 <@RangerZ> )*
12:23 <@RangerZ> the ACA ruling was another one of those
12:24 <@RangerZ> so now the feds 'can' say 'take this money or leave it' but only if it is on 'new' programs
12:24 <@RangerZ> not expansions of 'existing' programs
12:24 <@RangerZ> which is fucking stupid BS
12:24 <@RangerZ> so basically the -only- reason most GOP controlled states don't have medicare expansion is because of that
12:25 <@RangerZ> if they had -abolished medicare- and then _re-created it_ THEN the court says that the fed. gov't could have said it was 'take it or leave it'
12:25 <@RangerZ> wtf
12:26 < dasunt> In America, we're a democracy.  Unfortunately, that means we get the government we deserve.
12:26 <@RangerZ> no, we're a representative democracy
12:27 <@RangerZ> or 'republic' as republicans are apt to like to say lately (a PR trend I've noticed)
12:27 < dasunt> In common usage, "democracy" tends to include representatative and direct democracies.
12:27 <@RangerZ> though technically we aren't a republic either, but 'ehh'
12:28 <@RangerZ> but either way... it could be worse
12:28 <@RangerZ> it could be a direct democracy
12:28 < dasunt> True.
12:28 < dasunt> Could you imagine the facebook memes on that?
12:28 <@RangerZ> just look at how fucked up Ohio's state constitution is
12:28 <@RangerZ> and I assume TN's
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12:29 <@RangerZ> also... TN is looking to change its rules for broadband
12:29 <@RangerZ> so that power companies -can _not_- expand broadband
12:30 <@RangerZ> because we can't have other major cities getting chatt-like broadband
12:41 < aestetix> RangerZ: wait, why did they stop the 2000 recount then?
12:41 <@RangerZ> aestetix: because they could
12:42 <@RangerZ> aestetix: literally no -legal- reasoning that stands up to -real- scrutiny
12:42 < aestetix> lol
12:45 <@RangerZ> dasunt: aestetix I'm actually really interesting to see if pot will be classified as 'schedule 2' drug during the lame duck
12:46 <@RangerZ> that would be a 'great' way for Obama to help his 'legacy'
12:46 <@RangerZ> which is all he's worried about at this point
12:48 <@RangerZ> but then... I have to remember that big-pharma is a big donor to both obama & clinton, etc.
12:49 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI
12:49 < PigBot> Title: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Border Wall (HBO) - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/hndt6g5
12:54 <@RangerZ> yeah, watched it earlier
12:59 <@sasquatc3> hmm, ipad pro 9.7in announced
12:59 <@sasquatc3> them shits expensive tho
13:14 < aestetix> iPenis
13:24 <@rattle> Yummy.  I just ordered a Blackphone.
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13:32 <@Evilpig> rattle: is that how you call the black helicopters?
13:34 <@rattle> No, the black helicopters are their own thing.  The black phone is it's own thing.  Got all sorts of black things.  Black pens even.
13:37 <@Evilpig> I've even got black pens.  pfffffftt.  hell the last form I filled out for the doctor's office required black.  damn racists
13:37 < aestetix> racist
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14:48 <@rattle> Black pens matter.
14:51 < dasunt> aestetix: I blame you.  A SJW showed up to defend their actions in a forum I'm on.
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15:05  * dasunt blames SJWers for google maps sucking.
15:12 <@rattle> For today's edition of "We're old" #8674:  Today, netcat turned 20 years old.
15:21 < dasunt> Damn.
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 22 00:00:24 2016