--- Log opened Wed Mar 09 00:00:28 2016
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00:47 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: That's what you get for not using Red Hat Enterprise Linux (Complete with a support contract, of course) like a good little lemming.
00:48 <@Dagmar> Actually, I know what I did wrong... I'm just a bit baffled as to how it broke Windows
00:48 <@Dagmar> I forgot you MUST mount the EFI partition under /boot/efi, or it'll up and decide to make it's own
00:49 <@Dagmar> But... screw it.  I'm going to put Fedora on there anyway
00:59 < aestetix> Actually
01:00 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: have you ever actually used the RHEL support contract?
01:00 < aestetix> I'm curious how helpful it actually is
01:00 <@Dagmar> I don't think I've ever used it
01:04 < aestetix> How do you use it? Do you just call them up?
01:04 < aestetix> Or do they send someone to your place? Assuming your system can't get online...
01:05 <@Dagmar> Damn there's gonna be a killing here tonight
01:05 <@Dagmar> Something's gotten into my neighbors
01:05 <@Dagmar> OLD people beatin' on each other's doors at 1am
01:05  * Dagmar makes some popcorn
01:07 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: It was a joke.
01:07 < aestetix> yes I know
01:07 < aestetix> but I'm still curious
01:15 <@Dagmar> Mirage would know.  I think he might have called them once.
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01:32 <@Dagmar> Holy shit more beating on doors
01:46 <@Dagmar> First floor people were the subject of a domestic dispute issue earlier tonight
01:47 <@Dagmar> At the moment, they're apparently holed up with their music _really_ loud
01:47 <@Dagmar> This is keeping ground flood lady from sleeping.  She's been beating on the ceiling and they've been stomping back
01:47 <@Dagmar> ...so they're in there, and apparently concious.
01:47 <@Dagmar> She's also been beating on their door _with a brick_
01:48 <@Dagmar> Threatening to call the police
01:48 <@Dagmar> I hate to say it but I suggested she just go ahead and call the police becuase it sounds like a welfare check might be in order
01:48 <@Dagmar> This sort of thing is way out of character for the people here
01:48 <@Dagmar> Hopefully we're not going to have the coroner out in the morning or something
02:00 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: I find the idea of -you- calling the police for loud music... rather amusing
02:01 <@RangerZ> but yeah... briking a door is a decent enough reason to call the cops either way
02:02 <@RangerZ> also... no coursera... I don't want to get a 'certificate' from the specialization I'm helping teach... :/
02:12 <@Dagmar> Imma stab windows
02:12 <@Dagmar> I'm about to have to zero the goddamn disk just to get WIndows to install again it looks like
02:15 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: Mainly I think someone in the first floor apartment is having some kind of emotional blowout
02:15 <@Dagmar> ...or has possibly murdered the other person and is having a blowout
02:15 <@Dagmar> Not much to be done about a murder at this time of night tho, so... *shrug*
02:16 <@Dagmar> The ground floor lady was asking if I could help get the people's attention
02:16 <@Dagmar> I'm like, "I can hear you beating the door with the brick in *my* apartment.  The only thing I could do is hit it hard enough to knock it down."
02:16 <@Dagmar> "...and that's not going to really help anything."
02:17 <@RangerZ> if a _brick_ isn't getting their attention
02:17 <@RangerZ> they either don't want to see you... or you need to call the medics
02:17 <@RangerZ> and the apt. mang.
02:17 <@Dagmar> Yeah.
02:18 <@Dagmar> If there's crime scene tape everywhere in the morning, I won't be a bit surprised
02:18 <@Dagmar> I'll probably need to SMS the landlady and tell her "Wasn't me" tho
02:19 <@RangerZ> so... I like how portal 3 is coming out for the HTC Valve
02:19 <@Dagmar> ;)
02:19 <@Dagmar> Man those demos they're doing are something else
02:19 <@RangerZ> because shooting a gun and then running through a wall is a -great- idea for a VR game
02:19 <@Dagmar> Yeah.  I'm thinking maybe the vive will have to do something about encouraging people to move carefully
02:19 <@RangerZ> http://techfrag.com/2016/03/08/valve-announces-new-series-of-room-scale-vr-experiments-set-to-arrive-in-time-for-htc-vive/
02:19 < PigBot> Title: Valve Announces New Series of “Room-scale VR” Experiments, Set to Arrive in Time for HTC Vive - TechFrag (at techfrag.com) http://tinyurl.com/jux55ms
02:20 <@Dagmar> Otherwise... someone's goin' out a window
02:20 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: hell I could see people -making- others go out windows on purpose
02:20 <@RangerZ> "officer I don't know what happened, he was playing his game, and then he fell"
02:20 <@Dagmar> wtf
02:21 <@Dagmar> Mortie is playing with her food
02:21 <@Dagmar> This I gotta stop
02:21 <@Dagmar> She's batting kitten chow around on the floor
02:22 <@RangerZ> could be worse, she could have brought a bird in from the porch...
02:23 <@RangerZ> ok fuck this...
02:24 <@RangerZ> Its like the fucking original ghostbusters trailer... "real apocolyptic stuff, world ending, mayham on streets, dogs and cats living together" : http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-integrates-visual-studio-with-open-source-eclipse-ide/
02:24 < PigBot> Title: Microsoft integrates Visual Studio with open-source Eclipse IDE | ZDNet (at www.zdnet.com) http://tinyurl.com/zs6rxm8
02:25 <@Dagmar> I can't help but envision that as somehow _raping_ Eclipse
02:25 <@RangerZ> apparently they brought SQL server to *nix too
02:25 <@Dagmar> yeah.
02:25 <@Dagmar> ...but people are voting for Trump.
02:25 <@RangerZ> apparently they brought DX12 to linux
02:26 <@RangerZ> fuck... DX12 isn't worth trump
02:27 <@Dagmar> At least I don't have to worry about being viewed as an "undesireable element" in this building
02:28 <@Dagmar> It's going to be hard not inquiring as to WTF was going on tonight in the morning
02:28 <@RangerZ> you could do the same as I did here the other day, just go tell tham that 'others' might call the cops "ohh and what 'was' going on?"
02:28 <@RangerZ> hehe
02:29 <@Dagmar> The people downstairs here have hit the ceiling a couple of times, but I think they were maybe confusing where sounds were coming from
02:29 <@Dagmar> ...I an Audra were both in sock feet you couldn't hear either one of us moving around _in_ the apartment
02:30 <@Dagmar> The cat's bell makes more noise than we do moving aroulnd
02:31 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: I _seriously_ doubt your bed has survived without some major structural patching
02:31 <@Dagmar> No, it's fine
02:31 <@RangerZ> and neither the repairs nor the damage inducing could have been 'quiet'
02:31 <@RangerZ> hehe
02:31 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_PSZj1sCs
02:31 < PigBot> Title: Artist painting in VR - HTC Vive & Tilt Brush - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/nzwdve6
02:31 <@Dagmar> It's a very solid bed frame
02:31 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: THAT is why I think the vive will be an amazing tool for artists
02:32 <@Dagmar> I think it's an awesome tool for just about anyone
02:32 <@Dagmar> HTC has secured their immediate future with _just_ the hand-detection
02:32 <@RangerZ> even then she made a fairly complex 3d sculpt (mind you not quite 'AAA game ready' , but still, that just means the tools need to evolve somewhat)
02:33 <@RangerZ> I could see this being BIG for medical students
02:33 <@Dagmar> now imagine you're manipulating some BLender meshes of some parts you're going to 3D print
02:34 <@RangerZ> yeah
02:35 <@RangerZ> now, just think about the advanced medical training dummies that cost _150k$_ (for the 'alright one', and 75k for 'cheap one')
02:35 <@RangerZ> combine vive with glove with IR leds
02:35 <@RangerZ> and you're off to the races
02:36 <@RangerZ> because obviously their 'lighthouses' would be able to track it, if you had the 'softare' (and I'm guessing at this point 'plugin'/'settings' for the 'controller')
02:36 <@Dagmar> I've already seen tech demos
02:36 <@RangerZ> ~1000$ for the headset and a custom glove... 2k$ for a top of the line rig to run them...
02:36 <@Dagmar> Their shit will accurately detect fingers
02:37 <@RangerZ> apparently the xbox one connect is possible of that... at least close to it... but its limited by only 1 (well 2, but they are really close together)
02:37 <@RangerZ> 1 sensor*
02:38 <@RangerZ> but if thats true... then thats really impressive
02:39 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABHl77XR8UA
02:39 < PigBot> Title: HTC Vive 開發者峰會《2》Vive控制器的另一種玩法 - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/jrmjf2t
02:40 <@RangerZ> god... the idea of a small plastic bucket...
02:40 <@RangerZ> thats a really simple 'controller'
02:40 <@RangerZ> but actually really versitile
03:17 <@RangerZ>  
03:17 <@RangerZ> PSA TIME:
03:18 <@RangerZ> Unfortunately for society... Bob Ross won't be able to paint happy little trees with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFWw6hGIKmc
03:18 < PigBot> Title: Tilt Brush Preview Trailer - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/k67o2pz
03:18 <@RangerZ>  
03:54 < aestetix> donald trump
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06:33 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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08:45 < Synx_hm> sup peeps
08:45 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: you made any progress on your laser? im finally getting to actually making something today :)
08:47 <@Dolemite> I have been too busy lately to even plug it in.  I hope to actually get some time to play with it in April.
08:48  * aestetix farts
08:49 < Synx_hm> ya, mine sat on the desk since the last time we spoke about it until last night
08:49 < Synx_hm> gotta make a bday gift for my sister though so its time to get to it
08:49 <@Evilpig> because she would prefer something cheaply made than something awesome that you spent money on.
08:49 < Synx_hm> cut some hickory off a log in the yard yesterday and did a few tests burns last night
08:50 < aestetix> is your sister hot?
08:50 < Synx_hm> Evilpig: ? im making her bad ass drink coasters with her fav game of the moment fallout patterns on them
08:50 < Synx_hm> out of shit i have and wood i sourced from trees we cut down last year
08:51 < Synx_hm> i think its better than some rando thing off amazon
08:51 <@Evilpig> Synx_hm: she wants this.  http://www.amazon.com/Thirsty-Stone-natural-sandstone-coasters/dp/B001CKSZ2M/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1457535087&sr=1-1
08:51 < PigBot> Evilpig: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
08:52 <@Evilpig> best coasters i've ever owned.  NotLarry will attest to that
08:52 < Synx_hm> :)
08:52 <@Evilpig> only complaint is the damn thing really soaks up condensation off a glass and can get discolored over time
08:52 <@Evilpig> but my desk is always dry
08:54 <@Dolemite> Synx_hm: My main issue is that the benbox software has lots of nice little configurable parameters, but no explanation as to what they do
08:55 <@Dolemite> Main thing being the laser is too damn strong, and the second is that the scale is so freaking small.
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08:56 <@Evilpig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJAqYcJs3-w
08:56 < PigBot> Title: Deap Vally - Walk Of Shame - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/qcabfj4
09:09 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: ya im having awesome success with black/white raster engraving at the moment, but that is because figuring out proper PWM laser control for grayscale is not easy with this thing, 2w is a hell of a lot of power to drag across if you dont really figure out what speed and power levels work for the medium
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09:32 <@Evilpig> i've stumbled into edm.  wtf have I done?
09:33 <@Dolemite> As in electronic dance music?
09:33  * Dolemite hands Evilpig a glow stick
09:33 <@Evilpig> yeah that's the stuff
09:33 <@opticron> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining
09:33 < PigBot> Title: Electrical discharge machining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/mpug8ed
09:37 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: few things ive found so far, the belt tension system is garbage, buy all new 80/20 nut plates and rebuild the frame
09:37 <@Dolemite> Hrmm.  Mine works pretty well - it made some fairly perfect circles for me when I did get to play with it
09:38 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: dont even be in the same room as the thing when its in use, i do not feel the goggles it came with are safe at all, i had eyestrain last night from just being in the room out of direct view and wearing the goggles
09:38 <@Dolemite> I put up a wall of cardboard around it so that nobody can see it
09:38 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: ya mine has very slowely begun to lose tension, and the nuts are freespining in the 80/20 channels
09:39 < Synx_hm> good idea, i think im going to order some 445nm protective acrylic to build a housing for mine
09:39 <@Evilpig> I hate it when my nuts start freespinning
09:42 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: also while i remember check out the laserweb github project, its a full node.js based control platform to include gcode visualization and monitoring (including webcam) of your machines progress
09:42 <@Dolemite> Ugh.  Have to be at the airport by 6 AM tomorrow.  Not for my flight, but to drop off Pamela and Mr. 10.  My flight is 3 hours later, so apparently I'll be hanging out in/near the airport all morning.
09:43 <@Dolemite> Synx_hm: That sounds pretty damn cool
09:47 < Synx_hm> Dolemite: oh and best yet there are docker and vagrant descriptions for it w00t and it can run on pi
09:49 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: that means you can really have fun with security tomorrow
09:50 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: I will be opting out of the pornoscanner for sure.
09:50 <@Dolemite> Speaking of freespinning nuts
09:50 <@Evilpig> smuggle something good and go through the pornoscanner and get the bonus in person deep inspection
09:56 < aestetix> man
09:56 < aestetix> rush limbaugh has been entertaining lately
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10:18 < aestetix> hi klixa
10:25 <@klixa> hi aestetix
10:26 < aestetix> wie gehts?
10:28 <@Evilpig> http://www.kiwikiki.com/products/its-all-fun-and-games-until-someone-divides-by-zero
10:28 < PigBot> Title: Its All Fun And Games Until Someone Divides By Zero - KiwiKiki (at www.kiwikiki.com) http://tinyurl.com/gltb97g
10:37 <@klixa> ich bin krank aestetix , was geht mit du?
10:42 < aestetix> that sucks
10:43 <@Dagmar> No crime scene tape around that I can find
10:43 <@Dagmar> Still... maybe no one's noticed who's missing yet
10:44 < aestetix> klixa: do you feel grody?
10:51 < aestetix> ok so
10:51 < aestetix> anyone know the difference between windows server 2012 and essentials?
10:52 < aestetix> standard and essentials
10:52 < aestetix> god I hate asking that
10:53 <@Evilpig> no idea
10:53 < aestetix> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012#Editions
10:53 < PigBot> Title: Windows Server 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/kos4rxf
10:53 < aestetix> ugh
10:53 <@Evilpig> at one time they had talked about putting out a windows server version without a UI
10:54 < aestetix> Evilpig: based on how windows training videos are, that sounds like a bad idea
10:55 <@Evilpig> they were trying to push powershell as the end of the line for everything at that time.  I haven't really kept up
10:55 <@Evilpig> I will say it's lunch time and I need to get out of here because I'm yawning really bad
10:57 < NoFault1> No hyper-v with essentials, its basically the new WHS
10:58 < aestetix> ok that's it?
10:58 < aestetix> is hyper-v remotely useful? compard to virtualbox/xen/vmware
10:58 < NoFault1> eh its way better with 2012 but not sure if you could consider it comparable
10:59 < NoFault1> there are arbitrary limitations with Essentials like memory caps and access limits
11:00 < NoFault1> and licensing is limited to the server only
11:00 < NoFault1> no cals etc
11:01 < NoFault1> Active directory is crippled on essentials as well imo
11:02 < aestetix> how much ram does it need?
11:02 < aestetix> IE I don't trust its security so I'm setting it up inside of xen
11:02 < NoFault1> what are you planning to run on it
11:03 < aestetix> this at the moment
11:03 < aestetix> https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex41
11:03 < PigBot> Title: Hetzner Online GmbH: Dedicated Root Server EX41 (at www.hetzner.de) http://tinyurl.com/qyc534z
11:04 < aestetix> er trhis actually
11:04 < aestetix> https://www.hetzner.de/de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex40
11:04 < PigBot> Title: Hetzner Online GmbH: Dedicated Root Server EX40 (at www.hetzner.de) http://tinyurl.com/h362taz
11:04 < aestetix> I found out the hard way that xen 4.4 is not compatible with skylake processors
11:04 < aestetix> and instead of giving you an error, it just goes into perpetual reboots
11:04 < NoFault1> That is what you are setting it up on, but what are you looking to do with win2012
11:05 < aestetix> run a graphing tool that requires windows
11:06 < aestetix> does windows work ok on less than 32 gigs of ram?
11:06 < aestetix> where "ok" is a relative term
11:07 < aestetix> since it seems the graphing tool only needs 4 gigs of ram
11:08 < NoFault1> if you run standard you could get away with as little as 1 GB + what the tool needs with essentials in VM your going to need 4 GB
11:08 < NoFault1> minimum
11:08 < NoFault1> short answer go standard if you can throw 4 at it to start
11:08 < NoFault1> adjust based on performance
11:09 < aestetix> oh
11:09 < aestetix> I thought essentials was the smaller one
11:09 < NoFault1> no it has desktop style bloat
11:09 < NoFault1> core is the smallest but no gui
11:10 < aestetix> Do you want System Center components included with your Windows Server download?
11:10 < aestetix> what is that?
11:10 < NoFault1> SCCM? if your setting it up as a standalone no
11:10 < aestetix> ok
11:11 < NoFault1> if you point it back to a central SCCM instance for mgmt then you would need them but in this case no
11:12 < aestetix> yeah no
11:12 < aestetix> I don't trust windows worth a shit.
11:12 < aestetix> I am setting it into a vm because I set up a dedicated server, and I had to change a fucking registry key to change RDP to a nonstandard port
11:14 < aestetix> NoFault1: do you work with Windows?
11:14 < aestetix> if so, how the hell can you stand it?
11:14 < NoFault1> -_- yes
11:15 < NoFault1> I drink and automate everything by whatever means possible.
11:16 < aestetix> Does windows support puppet/chef?
11:16 < NoFault1> you can use both to manage I've played with it in lab but not prod
11:19 < aestetix> how do you automate then?
11:20 < aestetix> wait a second
11:20 < aestetix> microsoft gave me a convoluted filename for verification
11:20 < aestetix> and not an md5
11:20 < aestetix> how many parts of this can they get wrong?
11:21 < NoFault1> You'll figure it out soon enough
11:35 <@Dagmar> He actually looks at Event Viewer
11:35 <@Dagmar> It's _weird_
11:42 < NoFault1> Dagmar: It's helped me figure out who to throw a book at on more than one occasion.
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12:18 <@Dagmar> In a multi-user environment you get to do that
12:19 <@Dagmar> Some individual's workstation tho', I still maintain that since the answer always seems to come back to "reinstall shit" that there's not much point
12:31 < aestetix> Isn't event viewer windows's version of syslog?
12:36 <@Evilpig> kinda, yeah
12:36 <@Dagmar> journald
12:36 <@Dagmar> ...actually, journalctl.
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13:42 < aestetix> I think I'm going to write a longform blog post about why Bug Bounties are bad
13:58 <@Evilpig> this was pointed out at lunch.
13:58 <@Evilpig> https://www.facebook.com/bill.schwandt.9
13:58 < PigBot> Title: Welcome to Facebook (at www.facebook.com) http://tinyurl.com/z2d9hhy
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14:14 <@Evilpig> fuckin' useless fuck.  I swear this cable tech that they sent to my parents house was not only misinformed but lazy
14:15 <@Evilpig> the ipv4 on their brand new modem was dropping dead after about 12 hours
14:16 <@Evilpig> I told the dude that the ipv6 was still working but that was just weird
14:16 <@Evilpig> he told me that they don't have ipv6 support.
14:16 <@Evilpig> exhibit a: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyv5roqyfqzjqjl/Screenshot%202016-03-09%2013.23.45.png?dl=0
14:16 < PigBot> Title: Dropbox - Screenshot 2016-03-09 13.23.45.png (at www.dropbox.com) http://tinyurl.com/hnqkp7n
14:17 <@Evilpig> he then proceded to tell me that changing the local lan ip to 10.0.0.xxx would break it and that they have a utility that runs once an hour to put it back to 192.168.0.xxx
14:17 <@Evilpig> I mocked him and told him that was insane
14:19 <@Evilpig> so he left there with no devices in the house working right because he isn't allowed to touch their devices
14:20 <@Evilpig> lucky for me I set up my stepdad's pc to let me in via teamviewer and it was set to use a few different networks just for such an occasion
14:20 <@Evilpig> logged in remotely, restored the modem config from the back up I saved, everything is working again including grandma
14:21 <@Evilpig> useless fuck of a cable tech that couldn't follow directions.
14:21 <@Evilpig>  /end rant
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14:39 <@rattle> aestetix: Why are bug bounties bad?
14:45 <@rattle> Microsoft is releasing their own fork of Debian.
14:46 < aestetix> rattle: ok, if you are asking, I definitely need to write a thing.
14:47 <@rattle> The general consensus of everyone I know, myself included, is that bug bounties are the bomb diggity bees knees.
14:49 < aestetix> A quick summary is that they are an easy way for companies to get free labor out of aspiring kids.
14:49 < aestetix> The company can either pay a ton of money for a professional security team to do a full audit, or they can invite a bunch of people to spend hours and hours playing for the chance of getting a "bounty"
14:50 < aestetix> Other things to consider include how long it takes for the company to get back to the submitter, what happens if the same bug is submitted by multiple people, etc
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14:51 < aestetix> There's also the fact that the burden of severity is determined by the company. And they are usually very strict on how far someone can go.
14:51 <@Dagmar> The "hours playing" is typically *not* when the bugs are discovered
14:51 < aestetix> For example, I saw a bit a while back about someone who found a remote vuln in I think instagram, and inside the server were keys/passwords to their entire production system.
14:52 <@Dagmar> Also, keep in mind that if a researcher's opinion on the severity materially differs from the vendor, they can generally quite easily *prove* they're right
14:52 < aestetix> Dagmar: I'm not clear on that.
14:52 < aestetix> Dagmar: mostly because companies hosting bug bounties are not clear either.
14:52 <@Dagmar> Just the same... bug bounties keep bugs from being the exclusive domain of 0-day vendors
14:53 < aestetix> I disagree completely.
14:53 < aestetix> Oh, exclusive.
14:53 <@Dagmar> If they were the only people that paid for them, they'd be the only people that got them from the people burning the midnight oil to find them for money
14:54 < aestetix> Dagmar: I'm interested in things like how long it takes companies to reply to the bug bounty reporters, how long a fix takes, and what happens if the company never gets back.
14:54 < aestetix> I am thinking about Mike Lynn right now.
14:54 <@Dagmar> An important bug bounty also generally means a job could be following along right behind it
14:54 < aestetix> Dagmar: absolutely, and I would be very interested in how often that actually happens.
14:55 < aestetix> Especially when lately it seems more likely that someone who reports an issue is gagged or arrested.
14:55 <@Dagmar> Not likely to happen when a company has a bounty program
14:55 <@Dagmar> ...and if they don't, RESPONSIBLE DISCLOSURE IS ANONYMOUS DISCLOSURE
14:55 < aestetix> heh
14:55 < aestetix> I point back to the "how long does it take"
14:56 < aestetix> What if a company gets a submission, and sits on it for a year.
14:56 <@Dagmar> Should you be asking these questions without being familiar with the Full Disclosure mailing list?
14:56 <@Dagmar> 30 days.
14:56 < aestetix> HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA
14:57 < aestetix> Do you actually think most companies adopting these bounties reply within 30 days?
14:57 < aestetix> They are too busy trying to get user growth.
14:57 <@Dagmar> Fucktard
14:57 <@Dagmar> You're arguing about two separate groups
14:57 < aestetix> Yeah, I have startups in mind. Like twitter.
14:57 <@Dagmar> Either way, fuckin' 30 days is all they get
14:58 < aestetix> Sure.
14:58 <@Dagmar> After that, we disclose publicly because THE BAD GUYS probably already fuckin' know.
14:58 < aestetix> And when you disclose something on day 31, and get arrested?
14:58 <@Dagmar> Then you fucking failed to do so anonymously
14:58 < aestetix> lol
14:58 < aestetix> Dagmar: I think we actually agree on this.
14:58 < aestetix> Attempt to do the responsible thing within reason, and when reason fails, do the right thing ;)
14:59 < aestetix> My issue is not with the full disclosure process, when followed.
14:59 < aestetix> It's with the many companies that slap up a bug bounty system that they don't actually use.
14:59 < aestetix> And I speak from experience, both having to deal with this shit at a former employer, and talking with friends at other places.
15:00 < aestetix> First it was "do not set up a fucking bug bounty, we don't have the resources"
15:00 <@Dagmar> Again, sucks to be the people working for the company with the fail bounty syste
15:00 <@Dagmar> m
15:00 < aestetix> Then it was "jesus, at lease put a fucking public key on the site"
15:00 < aestetix> Dagmar: yep
15:00 < aestetix> Then it was "uh, are we ever gonna reply to these?"
15:00 <@Dagmar> If they have time to develop and publish code, they have time to fuckin' fix it
15:01 < aestetix> Dagmar: no, they have time to publish code that makes the company money.
15:01 < aestetix> And btw, you'd be amazed how many people submit bug bounties who have no idea how PGP works.
15:01 <@Dagmar> Well, it *stops* being code that makes the company money once it's clear it's an insecure steaming pile of shit now, doesn't it/
15:01 < aestetix> Usually the email comes in the form of the company's public key attached to a plaintext email
15:02 < aestetix> Dagmar: no, because by then the company has been acquired, or is failing for other reasons
15:02 < aestetix> See, twitter
15:02 < aestetix> One of the advantages of primarily catering to students is that you can throw a few hundred bucks at them so they shut up
15:02 <@Dagmar> All of which are *not* the problems of the users
15:03 <@Dagmar> The users have shit to do that generally requires the software they're doing it with not be a steaming pile of shit
15:03 < aestetix> rattle: does this help explain things at all?
15:03 < aestetix> Dagmar: well sure.
15:04 <@Dagmar> aestetix: You realize you're talking to two guys who don't even _blink_ at this stuff, right?
15:04 < aestetix> yep
15:04 < aestetix> Dagmar: but rattle asked me to clarify, so I did.
15:04 <@Dagmar> *sigh*
15:04 <@Dagmar> Your logic is awful.
15:04 < aestetix> Please explain why.
15:04 <@Dagmar> You've seen companies that were fucking up in dev-space fuck up in infosec-space as well, and they had bug bounty programs, ergo bug bounties are bad.
15:05 <@Dagmar> This is like saying that men are bad because Trump.
15:05 < aestetix> That is what I have seen, and in general companies have very little transparency around these processes.
15:06 < aestetix> I'm not saying they are bad, I am saying that the vast majority of bounty systems, as implemented, are terrible.
15:06 < aestetix> And companies are doing it because it's fashionable.
15:07 <@Dagmar> That's fine.  It doesn't mean bounty programs are bad.
15:07 <@Dagmar> It's no different from the steaming shitshow we already have
15:07 < aestetix> Ok, so I can reword the statements a bit.
15:07 <@Dagmar> Every little step in the right direction is progress.
15:07 <@Dagmar> Vanderbilt and Deloitte & Touche both made a mockery of ITIL.  Doesn't mean ITIL is bad.
15:08 < aestetix> There's also an entire ethos on their relation with CEH, and how it empowers the company rather than the individual.
15:08 < aestetix> But that's something I'd need to expand on more in longform.
15:09 < aestetix> Dagmar: let's say we have a law. And the law is great, in theory. But in pratice, it's fucking terrible.
15:10 < aestetix> Maybe you have one or two cases where it was handled well, but in the vast majority, it's shit.
15:10 < aestetix> That is how I see bug bounties.
15:10 <@Dagmar> That's when you rewrite the laws to be more specific.
15:10 <@Dagmar> It is *not* reasonable to conclude from that scenario that _laws_ are bad.
15:11 <@rattle> aestetix: Actually, everything you complain about is being actively solved.
15:11 < aestetix> rattle: oh really?
15:12 <@rattle> Alan at Commerce has been working alot on this.  As have folks like Trey and DT.  Companies like Bugcrowd and HackerOne have been setting up structured bounty programs for a number of companies.
15:12 <@rattle> The companies are getting results and good work, and researchers are getting paid.
15:12 < aestetix> rattle: what I have seen from federal prosecutions of my friends, it's hard to tell that anything good is happening.
15:12 <@rattle> It's getting turned around.
15:12 < aestetix> Heh.
15:13 < aestetix> I have no respect for DT. I respect him for building DefCon, but I do not respect him for the way he took it.
15:13 <@rattle> There's a group that's come together over the past two years at NTIA that knows what the fuck they are doing, and they are making a difference.  The policy is improving.
15:14 < aestetix> rattle: does that mean we won't see another Aaron Swartz anytime soon?
15:14 < aestetix> Because that's what I have been seeing too much of.
15:14 <@rattle> Big problems don't go away overnight..  But, we are on the right track finally.
15:14 <@rattle> What happened to Aaron woke alot of people up.
15:14 < aestetix> The problem with this stuff taking so long is that in the meantime, otherwise skilled people are turned into riffraff.
15:15 < aestetix> Look at the paypal 14. Keith is a friend, he can't get a fucking job anywhere now.
15:15 <@rattle> If the fucker didn't kill himself, his case most likely would have worked out.  It probably would have taken years, and could have gone all the way to the supremes..  But it most likely would have worked out.
15:16 < aestetix> rattle: and in the meantime, he would continue to be harassed and blocked at every corner with every project he tried to do.
15:16 < aestetix> And assholes like DT get up on a stage and suggest that companies need to have more power in prosecuting this stuff.
15:17 <@rattle> DDoS'ing Paypal wasn't exactly a brilliant thing to do..
15:17 < aestetix> rattle: neither was cutting off funds to wikileaks.
15:17 < aestetix> And keep in mind, I am no fan of wikileaks. But I'm also not a fan of the KKK, and think both should be able to get donations.
15:18 < aestetix> Unless you're trying to suggest that the little guy has no say in the US anymore, where I will entirely agree with you.
15:19 <@rattle> I'm in no way suggesting there are not major problems, but there are some good developments..
15:19 < aestetix> rattle: and keep in mind, I spent over a year working on the privacy policy in the city of Oakland, which just announced a privacy commmittee for the city.
15:19 <@rattle> I am suggesting that there are smarter ways to fight the power than to DDoS it.
15:20 <@rattle> Sweet.
15:20 < aestetix> rattle: I need to go afk, but we should engage again later.
15:25 <@rattle> https://imgflip.com/i/10k5b8
15:25 < PigBot> Title: Sudden Clarity Clarence Meme - Imgflip (at imgflip.com) http://tinyurl.com/jqmk63d
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17:28 <@RangerZ_> anyone else having difficulties with youtube?
17:29 <@RangerZ_> the video doesn't play at first, and then just 'randomly' (probably a reason why) starts playing later
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21:15 <@RangerZ> god damn... bernie sanders is on fucking fire tonight, evne if you disagree with him... he's doing an amazing job, just dropping bombs like "the ceo of goldman sachs said that 'I'm dangerous', and he's right, I am dangerous for wall street"
21:48 <@Dagmar> Lovely
21:48 <@Dagmar> THe ISO of "Win 7 All Versions" I found at Audra
21:49 <@Dagmar> 's place was a "warez'd up" special version, complete with some kind of RAT and a Windows Update blocker
21:49 <@Dagmar> ...which, seeing as how Win10 tries to download patches before it installs, is a bit of a problem
21:49 <@Dagmar> Good thing I have legit/clean Win7Pro 64-bit ISOs here
21:50 <@Dagmar> I'll just ZERO THE FUCKING DRIVE and install it properly
21:51 <@Dagmar> At least it's a retarded RAT
21:51 <@Dagmar> It's looking up hostnames like iqiuejomswcg.kung.foo
21:52 <@Dagmar> I'll wager if I looked at the traffic I'd find it trying to use mDNS to reach other compromised hosts
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23:16 <@Dagmar> Clearly I *love* installing Windows
23:16 <@RangerZ> lol
23:17 <@Dagmar> Despite that the COA label said right on it 'Windows 7 Home Premium OA' somehow I had a brain fart and installed Windows 7 Professional on it
23:17 <@RangerZ> at this rate I'm about to come bring you the official ISO I got for 10$ from my undergrad back in the day
23:17 <@Dagmar> ...which somewhat obviously won't take the serial number.
23:17 <@Dagmar> ...and I have basically all the images.
23:17 <@RangerZ> even the "super speical all in one" image you were talking about? hehe
23:17 <@Dagmar> So... Now we're making a thumb drive installable for Win 7 Home
23:18 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: would probably actually like that for the ctf
23:18 <@Dagmar> If I'm gonna keep doin' this shit I should really set up a PXE server for thsi
23:19 <@RangerZ> so I did my civic duty today... I publicly shamed a website into fixing itself
23:19 <@RangerZ> https://righteouswritings.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/screen-cap-of-offending-site-sanitized.png
23:20 <@RangerZ> that was the site before I basically ranted about how site should NOT have fonts and backgroudns with a color index diference of _12_
23:20 <@RangerZ> recommended is _120+_
23:22 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: I think netkoth has enough weird stuff for now.
23:22 < _NSAKEY> NoFault was by here and wondered why I have an HP network printer that apparent;y work past Windows Vista.
23:23 < _NSAKEY> When I told him that it was solely for netkoth, he started laughing.
23:30 < _NSAKEY> *apparently won't work past Windows Vista
23:34 <@Mirage> ok, i'm confused...how did this cron job run on Tues?   0 21 8-14 * 3 root <command>
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23:41 <@Mirage> And apparently these did as well.. 0 21 8-14 * 4 root <command>
23:42 <@RangerZ> okay... this could end up not returning what I want...
23:42 <@RangerZ> [turn of kate greediness]
23:42 <@RangerZ> [turn off kate greediness]
23:42 <@RangerZ> there we go
23:42 <@Mirage> shouldn't that be "run on Thurs of any month if the date is 8-14 at 21:00?
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23:42 <@RangerZ> I -obviously- mean how to turn off Kde's advanced text editor's regular expression greediness ....
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