--- Log opened Thu Mar 03 00:00:55 2016
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02:33 < _NSAKEY> https://archive.is/YYpFF
02:34 < _NSAKEY> http://fortune.com/2016/03/01/protester-volkswagen-geneva/
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04:04 < aestetix> http://www.dw.com/en/greens-politician-volker-beck-caught-with-crystal-meth/a-19087851
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06:34 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
06:57  * RangerZ_ enjoys recieving emails that start off "Dear Dr. Walker, we invite you...."
06:57 -!- RangerZ_ is now known as RangerZ
07:08 <@Evilpig> https://goo.gl/photos/s5tx3ix5n1YyFCuv9
07:32 <@Dolemite> I'd say you had good seats, but it's obvious that there were no seats
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07:40  * aestetix hugs Dolemite 
07:41 < aestetix> Evilpig: what show was that?
07:53 <@Evilpig> dropkick murpheys
08:48 <@Mirage> I'm not digging the guest artist for Dilbert
08:54 <@Mirage> Yeah... http://science.slashdot.org/story/16/03/03/0157204/the-case-against-algebra
08:55 <@Mirage> So if they're arguing that english majors shouldn't have to take math, then I think engineering majors shouldn't have to take history classes
08:56 <@Evilpig> or english
08:56 <@Evilpig> but probably some form of arabic might need to be required now
08:58 <@Mirage> i know..even better:  modified classes specific to target students.   Sci/math students take english classes based on how to write a scientific paper/proof/publication, history classes are all science/math/engineering related.  "The history of pi"..sign me  up!
08:58 < aestetix> what qualifies as math?
08:59 <@Mirage> and english majors can have math classes to teach them how to verify/validate stuff is properly a haiku or in iambic pentameter
08:59 < aestetix> Mirage: imho we need fewer engineers and more liberal arts
08:59 < aestetix> Although actual liberal arts, not the bullshit that universities shit out lately
08:59 <@Mirage> aestetix: now, now...we haven't even brought philosophy into the discussion yest
08:59 <@Mirage> er, yet
09:00 < aestetix> what's wrong with philosophy?
09:00 <@Mirage> "what qualifies as math"..
09:00 < aestetix> I would think math and philosophy are absolutely related
09:00  * aestetix points to Bertrand Russell
09:00 <@Mirage> math and logic
09:00 <@Mirage> not necessarily philosphy
09:01 < aestetix> Ok. let's compromise and force everyone to read Aristotle
09:02 < aestetix> I will admit I'm astonished when someone can't just look at "set var = 5; print $var" and figure out what it does
09:02 < aestetix> You don't need to have a CS degee to understand that
09:03 < aestetix> unless you're a Windows admin
09:03 <@Mirage> i dunno, that's pretty advanced shit man..
09:04 <@Mirage> i don't think we covered a math equivalent to that in school until like 5th or 6th grade
09:04 < aestetix> So you don't think an english major should be able to do 5th grade math?
09:05 <@RangerZ> I know for a fact that man Education majors can't
09:05 < aestetix> man education?
09:05 <@RangerZ> s/man/many
09:05 < aestetix> that sounds like learned helplessness
09:06 <@RangerZ> one of my best friends was an Education major and had no idea where electricity came from
09:06 <@Mirage> and that's sad.  my statement was aimed at pointing out that it's not rocket science
09:06 <@RangerZ> she thought her pluggin in things into her outlet made the electricity for her neighbors, and vice versa
09:06 <@Mirage> RangerZ: easy, the plug on the wall
09:06 <@RangerZ> Mirage: you are sadly more correct than you thought
09:07 < aestetix> if someone is in university, they should be able to do 6th grade math
09:07 <@Mirage> aestetix: you'd think
09:07 < aestetix> have american public schools gotten that bad?
09:08 <@Mirage> i was extremely pissed about having to take "American History to 1865" because it was pretty much exactly my 8th grade history class rehashed
09:09 < aestetix> it sounds like american universities have become like high schools
09:09 < aestetix> which makes me ask wtf do high schools do
09:10 <@Mirage> aestetix: i don't know about now, but i'm referring to 20+yrs ago when I went to college
09:11 <@RangerZ> aestetix: remember they are all old fogies
09:11  * RangerZ points to Mirage and the other PN alumni hehe
09:12 <@Mirage> RangerZ: learn lots and get agood job so you can better support out Social Security checks in another 20+ years
09:12 <@Mirage> er, out/our
09:12 <@RangerZ> basically all first and second year courses, espeically in 'general education' domains are pretty much rehashes of what you would learn in middle school/high school, but with more details added in that aren't as apparent when you are taking it
09:13 < aestetix> .... then why bother?
09:13 < aestetix> that's a total fucking waste of time
09:14 <@Mirage> aestetix: yeah, that was my opinion of it..
09:14 <@RangerZ> aestetix: not really, as I said, it adds more details, plus it sets a baseline
09:15 <@RangerZ> our 'nation' has no requirements for national education, even to this day
09:15 < aestetix> Why don't they teach those details in high school?
09:15 <@RangerZ> 'common core' is only an agreement between states
09:15 < aestetix> I mean, isn't the point of extrance exames to keep the idiots out?
09:15 <@RangerZ> aestetix: they do, if you go to a rich (generally white) HS
09:16 <@RangerZ> aestetix: what 'entrance exam' ?
09:16 <@RangerZ> I've never taken an entrance exam
09:16 < aestetix> don't some schools have a test you have to take to determine if you qualify?
09:17 <@RangerZ> there is the GRE for grad school, that measures your ability to study for tests (supposedly for 'verbal' and 'math'... but really its 'how well can you learn to study to answer the trick questions'
09:17 <@Mirage> ACT/SAT tests...
09:17 < aestetix> sort of like testing out of a class
09:17 <@RangerZ> that is called a 'placement exam'
09:17 < aestetix> oh ok
09:17 < aestetix> well also private schools like harvard for example have an entrance exam
09:17 < aestetix> Isn't vanderbilt private?
09:18 <@RangerZ> yeah, and AFAIK it doesn't
09:18 < aestetix> how do they keep the idiots out?
09:18 <@RangerZ> price
09:18 <@RangerZ> 45k/yr
09:18 < aestetix> and how well is that working?
09:18 <@Evilpig> that doesn't keep idiots out
09:18 <@RangerZ> fine
09:18  * aestetix notes how much money Donald Trump has
09:18 <@RangerZ> yes it does, it keeps _poor_ idiots out
09:18 <@Evilpig> they still allow rich idiots
09:18 <@RangerZ> you WANT to attract RICH idiots
09:19 <@RangerZ> they fail classes and have to repeat
09:19 <@RangerZ> and you can collect more tuition
09:19 <@RangerZ> and then once they graduate (if they do) you hit them up for donations
09:19 <@RangerZ> and they are too dumb to know better
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09:25 < aestetix> So by that logic, they fill the whole school up with rich idiots
09:25 < aestetix> And there is no longer any education
09:49 <@Mirage> Shit yeah!  http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160303-the-surprising-benefits-of-swearing
10:09 <@RangerZ> aestetix: you and I are counting 'idiots' differently
10:09 <@RangerZ> of course these 'idiots' have to be 'book smart'
10:10 <@RangerZ> but being book smart is easy, passing a test is easy, getting a certificate is easy
10:10 <@RangerZ> realizing that Donald Trump is a facist is -not- easy
10:12 <@rhia> naw, that's easy -- realizing that you're an idiot rube is the not-easy part
10:12 <@RangerZ> understanding the poltiical implications of a facist president... even harder
10:12 <@rhia> which is why Trump has so many followers
10:14 <@rhia> i don't understand how that's so hard when we have so, so, so many tin-despots who have served as prime examples
10:16 <@RangerZ> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/03/mitt-romney-trump-is-a-phony-a-fraud-who-is-playing-the-american-public-for-suckers/
10:17 <@RangerZ> 50%/50% bet at this point that we'll end up with Mitt Romney again as the nominee
10:17 <@RangerZ> because at the convention... if the 'establishment' _can_ block Trump... they will
10:17 <@rhia> if they broker the convention
10:17 <@rhia> it's a risky if for them
10:18 <@RangerZ> not as risky as having trump as nominee
10:18 <@RangerZ> 1) they coulde lose the senate in a landslide by using trump as a wedge
10:18 <@rhia> because if Trump has the numbers and they pull in someone who hadn't even announced his candidacy? Trump will very likely run as an independent
10:18 <@RangerZ> 2) if trump wins, he has no attachment to 'Republicanism' or 'Conservatism'
10:19 <@rhia> and that will split the GOP - not just the 2016 voting bloc, but the GOP itself
10:19 <@RangerZ> actually he won't run
10:19 <@RangerZ> apparently after Perot, most states changed their laws to hurt 3rd party tickets
10:19 <@RangerZ> 3rd party has to have filed -way- before convetions
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10:19 <@rhia> why? because he said he wouldn't? he's already hinted after that that he might
10:20 <@RangerZ> he might be able to 'run' , but not be allowed on the ballots in most states
10:21 <@rhia> if it's a close election, just needs 2 to 5 % of one of the big ones to split the election
10:21 <@rhia> see Florida: 2000
10:21 <@RangerZ> true, however most people aren't going to 'write in' a candidate
10:21 <@RangerZ> also, its not likely to be a close election with 3 people running
10:22 <@Dagmar> I will do so with a jackhammer if required.
10:22 <@RangerZ> it will be the same as in 92
10:22 <@rhia> Actually, as mush as I depise Trump, I fear the people who support him more ---
10:22 <@rhia> Ted Cruz, otoh, terrifies me
10:22 <@RangerZ> 45% Democratic 35% Republican 20% Perot or somehting like that
10:23 <@dasunt> I always thought our political system would work better if all candidates were write-in.
10:24 <@rhia> RangerZ, don't get me wrong, I would welcome the GOP trying to put Romney in over anyone they ran this year, but i'm doubtful they're that stupid
10:24 <@RangerZ> rhia: before this year, I would have agreed
10:24 <@rhia> now, they have continued to surprise me with their ability to outstupid themselves so. . .
10:25 <@Dagmar> I think they're insane enough to run with Trump
10:25 <@RangerZ> but.... have you paid attention to the GOP this last year? "that is too stupid" doesn't seem to hold any water anymore
10:25 <@rhia> Dagmar, yeah
10:25 <@Dagmar> Reminder: These are people who typically profit from war.
10:25 <@Dagmar> ...and he'll cause one.
10:25 <@rhia> so would Cruz
10:25 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: my 'only' hope is that Trump would actually NOT be a hawk
10:26 <@Dagmar> That is an insane hope
10:26 <@RangerZ> and be like "war isn't good for the bottom line of -my- businesses'
10:26 <@rhia> 90% of what Trump blusters on about there is no way he could do
10:26 <@dasunt> Here's what I see - if Trump gets 50% of the delegates, he's the GOP candidate.
10:26 <@dasunt> If Trump gets 49% of the delegates going into the convention, the GOP will likely try to stop him.
10:26 <@RangerZ> if not, its romney, kasich, or rubio
10:26 <@rhia> Cruz, otoh, was a SCOTUS clerk and has delusions of making America into a theocracy
10:27 <@dasunt> Kasich strikes me as sane for a Republican, but perhaps that's because he hasn't gotten a lot of air time.
10:27 <@rhia> Trump would probably leave picking justices up to one of his staff, Cruz will look for fellow dominionists -
10:28 <@RangerZ> dasunt: he's fucking crazy too
10:28 <@rhia> and Cruz has already demonstrated that he has no compuction about completely shutting our government down just to get his way
10:28 <@RangerZ> he just cut all state funding for women's health centers in the state
10:28 <@dasunt> I could see Trump playing games, especially if not filling a seat makes the court more predictable.
10:28 <@RangerZ> that way he could cut off funding for 'planned parenthood' "TOO"
10:28 <@rhia> dasunt, yeah, what RangerZ said - Kasich just hides his cray better
10:29 <@dasunt> RangerZ: That's basically every GOP candidate, because PP is the evulz or something.
10:29 <@Mirage> I still say they need to add an official selection of "none of the above" to ballots
10:29 <@rhia> Mirage, Definitely
10:30 <@dasunt> Remember, I said "sane for a Republican".  The bar is low.
10:30 <@Mirage> Of course I also still maintain that they should do away with political parties
10:31 <@rhia> and I'd love to see us switch to Single Transferable Voting (multiple ballots, rank your choices)
10:31 <@RangerZ> Mirage: it wouldn't help
10:31 <@RangerZ> they have the Fox "news"
10:31 <@dasunt> I'd like it if they would remove party affiliation from ballots.
10:31 <@RangerZ> it doesn't actually help
10:31 <@RangerZ> its just surface dressing, because everyone who cares knows who is affiliated with who
10:32 <@RangerZ> same with electing judges
10:32 <@dasunt> RangerZ: So basically, it's 10% of the voters who know who is affiliated.  :p
10:32 <@rhia> well, judges shouldn't be elected
10:32 <@rhia> but that's a different argument
10:32 <@RangerZ> rhia: tell ted cruz that, he has sponsored bills to have SCOTUS elected
10:32 <@RangerZ> :/
10:33 <@rhia> RangerZ, already said, that man terrifies me
10:33 <@dasunt> Is having SCTUS elected via a congressional bill even constitutionally legal?
10:33 <@rhia> edited:  I'd love to see us switch to Single Transferable Voting (multiple CHOICE ballots, rank your choices)
10:33 <@rhia> dasunt, you think that'd stop him trying?
10:34 <@dasunt> rhia: Nope.  But it would get slapped down pretty hard.
10:34 <@rhia> he got slapped down pretty hard over shutting down the government, now he's the only speedbump in Trumps way to the GOP candidacy
10:35 <@dasunt> GOP base has short memories, the slapping down doesn't last.
10:35 <@rhia> goldfish have longer memories
10:36 <@dasunt> Anyways, I think we can all agree that no matter what any GOP candidate did in the past, any bad things that happened was Obama's fault.
10:38 <@rhia> like how he tanked the economy before he even won the election -- the man has talent
10:39 <@dasunt> Don't forget Obama's horrible response to Katrina.
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10:50 < aestetix> rhia: don't forget how he forced the insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions
10:50 < aestetix> Cost them so much money
10:52 <@rhia> i can blame him for not even bringing medicare to all/single payer to the damned bargaining table
10:53 <@rhia> who begins negotiations by just handing their biggest bargaining chip over?
10:54 <@Evilpig> me, everytime I have a first date
10:54 <@rhia> yeah, the GOP very most likely would have not agreed to single payer, but he could have got concessions that would have made the ACA so much better
10:57 <@rhia> Evilpig, could be part of your problem ;)
10:59 <@RangerZ> rhia: problem with ACA is that it is a republican plan
10:59 <@RangerZ> just from the 90s
11:00 <@RangerZ> Just lower the age of medicare to 55 then 50 then 45 then 35 then 25 then 0
11:00 <@RangerZ> old people think they are speical
11:00 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: Don't forget that Obama did 9/11.
11:00 <@RangerZ> special then*
11:00 < _NSAKEY> He melted those steel beams with pure charm.
11:01 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: don't forget obama leaking everything to wikileaks
11:01 <@rhia> RangerZ, yeah, i know -- it's the brain child of the Heritage Foundation (mostly)
11:01 < _NSAKEY> OBAMA LIED ABOUT IRAQ.
11:01 <@RangerZ> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/03/mitt-romney-trump-is-a-phony-a-fraud-who-is-playing-the-american-public-for-suckers/
11:01 <@RangerZ> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/03/mitt-romney-is-the-human-embodiment-of-the-republican-partys-trump-terrors/
11:01 <@RangerZ> lol
11:01 <@rhia> and he led the Russians into the Crimea - that Obama is sneaky
11:02 < _NSAKEY> I'm kind of sad that Obama won't be President anymore, because "Obama controls the weather" has a really nice ring to it.
11:02 < _NSAKEY> However, "Trump is literally Hitler" kind of replaces that, and I don't really see a chance for anyone else winning it at this point.
11:03 <@rhia> RangerZ, could you imagine if Trump gets the nomination and then gets pissed off and quits? hehe
11:03 <@rhia> _NSAKEY, Trevor Noah has done a pretty good job comparing Trump to a whole litany of African dictators
11:03 <@RangerZ> no, I'm waiting for some Democrats to start attacking him -personally-
11:03 <@RangerZ> you saw how he got so flustered when attacked personally, and he has no 'real' plans
11:04 <@rhia> RangerZ, oh, Wasserman-Schultz is too busy making sure the DNC attacks Bernie (as she caters to for-profit prisons and pay-day loan sharks)
11:04 <@RangerZ> yeah, fuck her (with aestetix's dick) because she's a fucking hack
11:04  * rhia intensely dislikes the current head of the DNC
11:05 < _NSAKEY> rhia: I've been enjoying the gif that shows Trump's facial expressions next to Manson's. It gets retweeted into my timeline at least once every few days.
11:05 <@dasunt> Sure, saying "Trump is literally Hitler" sounds fun right now, but in two years when we're all trying to figure out if the freshly killed rat is one of the highly radioactive ones, it won't be as funny.
11:06 < _NSAKEY> Heh.
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11:15 <@RangerZ> rhia: at this point, your best bet is to hope for the san andreas fault to break off the west coast of the US from the rest
11:15 <@RangerZ> and then we break the the appalachian mountains at the middle
11:16 <@RangerZ> let the coasts become islands , and let the "real america" become the true confederate states it wants to be
11:16 <@RangerZ> because... lets be honest... it mostly is that already
11:22 < _NSAKEY> s/confederate states/nuclear wasteland/
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11:24 <@rhia> I'd be ok with dividing us from the Columbia river down to Hwy 395 -- wonder if we could convince BC to join us? ;)
11:26 <@dasunt> If middle America becomes the new CSA, I'm fleeing to Canada.
11:26 <@rhia> the middle can keep Idaho and Montana - way, way too many white supremacists survivalist sovereign citizens infesting those states
11:26 <@dasunt> OTOH, I'm in Minnesota, so there's a chance the whole state would try to join Canada.  We're about 50% of the way to true Canadian politics anyways.
11:28 <@dasunt> I'm a little surprised that MN hasn't tried to implement single payer on a state level yet.
11:28 <@rhia> dasunt, i could see the western halves of WA and OR considering petitioning Canada for at least protectorate status
11:28 <@rhia> if the middle us became the new CSA
11:30 <@dasunt> A decent chunk of middle America isn't that conservative.
11:30 <@dasunt> Or it's conservative, but in a different way than the deep south.
11:32 <@rhia> Pacifica to the west, Atlantica/Oceania to the east, and Jesusland down the middle
11:32 <@dasunt> Thinking about it, I suspect this is a mistake left wingers make when looking at right wingers, grouping all the different regional strains of conservatives together as one monolithic group.
11:33 <@rhia> just takes one look at the GOP clown car the last 4 years to see the different flavors of conservative -- esp now that Romney is speaking again
11:34 <@dasunt> I blame the democrats.  They've seized the center.  That leaves the crazies as a potent for for the GOP.
11:35 <@rhia> and left the left homeless
11:35 < _NSAKEY> rhia: Last 4 years?
11:35 <@rhia> oh, there's the greens and groups like occupy, but . . .
11:36 < _NSAKEY> You should probably revise that number upward.
11:36 <@rhia> _nsakey --- k, last ... 16? hehe
11:36 < _NSAKEY> I was really hoping the Oregon occupation would last longer, because that was probably the funniest thing that could have happened.
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11:36 < _NSAKEY> It just needed to be shifted about 6 months in the future, in terms of timing.
11:36 <@rhia> it did help showcase the high level of intellect in the sovereign citizen movement ;)
11:37 < _NSAKEY> That's true.
11:37 < _NSAKEY> I really loved the part where Ammond Bundy kept asking the fed negotiator if he had the sheriff's permission to be there.
11:37 < _NSAKEY> Then the negotiator was all, "The sheriff asked me to be here."
11:38 < _NSAKEY> So Bundy fell back to, "Do the people want you here?" or whatever he actually said, not knowing that even the locals and the guys they were protesting for wanted them to STFU and go home.
11:38 <@dasunt> The Dems still have a left wing, but they are arguably irrelevant past the primaries.
11:38 <@rhia> everyone knows that the sheriff is the highest office in the land
11:38  * rhia eyerolls
11:38 < _NSAKEY> rhia: If that was actually the case here, I would already be making molotov cocktails.
11:39 <@rhia> dasunt, not really -- more that the left tucks under the dems because in out two party system, where else could they go, the GOP?
11:39 < _NSAKEY> This guy is suing the openly corrupt loser of a sheriff I currently have: http://www.murfreesboropost.com/gammon-lawsuit-lays-it-all-out-cms-43814
11:39 <@dasunt> rhia: No, just look at Hillary moving a little left to counter Sander's popularity.
11:40 <@rhia> dasunt, no, just look at Hillary's RHETORIC move a little left
11:40 < _NSAKEY> ... And http://wkrn.com/2016/02/15/officials-respond-to-shots-fired-at-rutherford-county-sheriffs-home/
11:40 <@dasunt> rhia: Sure, she'll swing back to center after the nomination.
11:40 < _NSAKEY> That story still cracks me up.
11:40 <@rhia> she's the same WallStreet corporatist
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11:40 <@dasunt> Contrast to the GOP, which will heavily pander to the right due to this tea party abomination that they've birthed.
11:41 <@rhia> _NSAKEY, . . .  that link, the mind, it is boggled
11:41 < _NSAKEY> rhia: The short version is that he fires deputies who don't agree with his politics and extra sources of income.
11:42 < _NSAKEY> He also did a no-bid deal for this e-cigs company his family runs.
11:42 <@rhia> dasunt, the GOP created their own monsters and now don't know what to do when they found out the pitchfork carrying yahoos are supporting the monsters
11:42 < _NSAKEY> That doesn't even begin to address what the feds are missing so far, which centers around the rumors that one of his top guys who he poached from Williamson county is deeply involved in selling truckloads of stolen goods, and that guy poached a bunch of his buddies after getting hired.
11:43 <@rhia> _NSAKEY, and that is all the fault of Beyonce's halftime show? good to know
11:43 < _NSAKEY> rhia: The best part in all this is that local confidence in him is so low that I've heard more speculation that Arnold staged the shooting than I have sympathy that his house got shot up.
11:44 <@rhia> _NSAKEY, yep, that all sounds legit ;)
11:44 < _NSAKEY> If something like that video can cause a shooting, I wonder what NWA's Fuck The Police would have caused if it was released now.
11:45 <@dasunt> rhia: Yep.  I have no sympathy.  GOP thought that the rise of their right wing would give them power, but instead the tea party went on an ideological purge of the party removing weak moderate Republicans and replacing them with wingnuts.
11:45 < _NSAKEY> Did you guys read that vox article aestetix linked yesterday?
11:45 < _NSAKEY> I think it made a really compelling case for what's happening to the Republicans right now.
11:46 <@dasunt> Nope.
11:46 <@dasunt> Found it:   http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
11:48 <@rhia> been saying Trump is a demagogue for some time now -- but that the media is completely not seeing that Cruz is worse, much worse pisses me off
11:48 <@rhia> it could almost make me suspect that Trump is a plant to make Cruz look sane and electable
11:50 <@rhia> because, frankly, it takes a Drumpf, er, "Trump" to achieve that delusion
11:51 <@dasunt> I see authoritarianism rising on both the left and the right, and it's disturbing.
11:55 <@rhia> dumb down a population and teach them to only think rigidly (teaching for the test) instead of how to think critically for themselves, then push emotionalism over boring old rationalism,  then
11:56 <@rhia> add a dose of the news becoming entertainment by selling out for profit -- not surprised
11:57 <@rhia> the GOP has been wholesale institutionally peddling nationalistic jingoism as "patriotism" since Bush
11:58 <@rhia> and now they're, as some headlines have said, in "pandemonium" over Trump
12:00 <@rhia> meanwhile, the dems have kept following the GOP to the right and mostly ignored the left leaving it to fend for itself -- same conditions, different smaller authoritarian groups popping up
12:01 <@rhia> difference is, the left's authoritarianism is scattered and not organized under one political juggernaut
12:02 <@rhia> so, can the aliens attack now? in the movies, that's all it takes to unite everyone -- see, it's easy!
12:03 <@rhia> of course, then it's all over in 2 hours ;)
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12:14 <@dasunt> I actually think America is pretty ripe for a new sort of fascism.
12:16 <@dasunt> Just think right now how few rights Americans effectively have.  Most of us are tied to jobs, often to larger businesses.  It's getting easier and easier to monitor people.  It's frequently not illegal for businesses to monitor people.  And there's only a few forms of speech that are actually protected when it comes to employment.
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12:17 <@dasunt> We're ripe for a corporate takeover.
12:18 <@Dagmar> Sweet crap
12:20 <@Dagmar> So... THIS is fuckin' coool
12:20 <@Dagmar> Anyone else got a Chromecast?  I would appreciate it if someone else could replicate this
12:21 <@Dagmar> It looks like if the internet goes down, the goddamn things stop connecting to the local AP and just start broadcasting openly using their name as an SSID.
12:21 <@Dagmar> ...and will let just any motherfucker connect and reconfigure them.
12:22 <@Mirage> Sounds like a "feature" to me..
12:22 <@Dagmar> ...not when the AP goes away, but when the Internet connection is no longer active.
12:22 <@Dagmar> If the AP goes away, I could see doing that
12:22 <@Dagmar> MAYBE
12:23 <@Dagmar> Looks kinda like if you want to take over someone's TV, all you have to do is kill the network for a bit and then reconfigure the nearby Chromecasts
12:23 <@Mirage> Yeah, for any device other than something created by Google...I'm sure that losing the AP is a much less catastrophic event in their eyes than losing internet connectivity..and therefore the ability for data collection
12:23 <@Dagmar> ...or just wait.
12:23 <@Dagmar> Don't be a dumbass
12:24 <@Dagmar> They don't appear to be trying to connect to other APs
12:25 <@Dagmar> They use a special region of MAC addresses for this
12:25 <@Dagmar> Like, I'm pretty sure I could code a CHromecast _stealer_
12:25 <@Dagmar> Pardon me while my desk spawns a bunch of new stickies
12:25 <@Mirage> Regardless, I'm sure that the sanity of the device is governed by internet connectivity, not by network connectivity
12:27 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: Do it.
12:28 <@Dagmar> Gonna have to reverse-engineer a few things
12:28 < _NSAKEY> But do the PN tracking system first.
12:29 <@Dagmar> Yep
12:29 <@Mirage> Anyone know off the top of their head what the normal lifetime of an AD bind krb5 ticket is for a worskstation/server?
12:33 < aestetix> ok so question
12:33 < aestetix> I have a system with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. I install xen, and when I reboot, the system does not come back up.
12:33 < aestetix> It starts to load the xen kernel, and then goes into this perpetual reboot cycle.
12:33 < aestetix> Any idea what could be causing that?
12:35 <@dasunt> I will blame systemd.
12:35 < aestetix> lol
12:36 <@Dagmar> Mirage: Since it's AD, it could be infinite.
12:37 <@Mirage> Dagmar: I seriously doubt that krb5 allows an infinite ticket age
12:38 <@Dagmar> It doesn't, but AD's implementation of it does.
12:38 <@Dagmar> Ask Erin about it
12:38 <@Dagmar> (Shelton)
12:41 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9vd4kOJwzg
12:43 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: Blame upstart, since 14.04 predates systemd in Ubuntu.
12:43 < aestetix> But the thing is
12:43 < aestetix> The xen kernel starts
12:43 < aestetix> and then gets to a "memory scrub" sequence, and dies
12:45 <@Dagmar> Run memtest86 *derp*
12:46 < aestetix> Dagmar: we thought it might be a memory issue, so we created a second server, and had the same results.
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12:54 < aestetix> I gotta say
12:55 < aestetix> I have never seen anyone consistently control the news so much for so long
12:56 <@eryc> Dagmar: it's configurable http://windowsitpro.com/site-files/windowsitpro.com/files/archive/windowsitpro.com/content/content/15313/userticket.gif
12:57 < aestetix> Does Elonka support Trump?
12:57 <@eryc> Mirage: By default, service tickets have a maximum duration of 600 minutes and user tickets have a maximum duration of 10 hours.
13:01 <@dasunt> eryc: I thought that by defualt, it was service tickets have a maximum duration of 10 hours and user tickets have a maximum duration of 600 minutes.
13:14 <@Evilpig> Dolemite: you mocked my support of joking hazard.  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyanideandhappiness/joking-hazard/posts/1508877?ref=backer_project_update
13:23 <@RangerZ> quick question... if I run a [ 'find . -name "something-here" ] and I want to open all the files that match that in an editor, lets say 'kate' that allows you to have multiple files open at once, is there a way to do that other than [ | xargs kate ] ?
13:24 <@eryc> dasunt: nope
13:24 <@RangerZ> that works once, if you don't already have kate open, but it fails when kate is open (I'm guessing kate has singleton instance issues)
13:25 <@RangerZ> ohh nvm... I just realized [ kate $(find-here) ]
13:25  * RangerZ wants to go back to bed
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14:07 <@Dolemite> Evilpig: I'm a backer for it, too.  I just stated that I was sure you'd spend way more money on it than I would.
14:11 <@Evilpig> they added to the level I backed
14:15 <@Dolemite> That the wood box level?
14:17 <@Evilpig> yup
14:58 <@dasunt> Windows shitty unicode support has now probably eaten into three hours of my time.
14:59 <@dasunt> All trying to explain to a user why a hyphenminus may look similar to other characters such as an en-dash, but when it comes to the built in Windows zipping ability, Windows won't compress filenames with an en-dash (or any of the other 8 or so characters that are easily confused with hyphen-minus).
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15:51 <@RangerZ> dasunt: don't worry, it'll eat into much more of your time here soon
15:52 < aestetix> jesus
15:52 < aestetix> finally figured it out
15:52 < aestetix> the version of xen I've been trying to install does not work with the processor on the system
15:52 <@RangerZ> just wait until someone logs into google.com but its actually g\u+XXXXogle.com
15:52 <@RangerZ> or something liek that
15:52 <@RangerZ> like*
15:52 < aestetix> four days wasted :/
15:52 <@RangerZ> lol
15:52 <@dasunt> LOL.
15:53 <@dasunt> RangerZ: Oh yes, I'm looking forward to the day that some idiot decides that full unicode support for DNS is a great idea.
15:53 < aestetix> so now I get to compile it
15:53 <@RangerZ> aestetix: we're using an ancient version of xen on our internal test servers, because of some software we use for reporting won't work with newer versions
15:53 <@RangerZ> dasunt: they did
15:54 <@RangerZ> didn't you see? or are you joking?
15:54 <@dasunt> RangerZ: I wasn't paying attention.  I thought there was some screwed up mapping scheme for some alternative languages, but I didn't realize they went full unicode.
15:54 <@RangerZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name
15:55 <@RangerZ> basicaly it is up to the gTLDs to 'police' that people do not make 'fake looking' sites
15:55 <@RangerZ> and we all know how great network solutions is at that
15:55 <@RangerZ> let alone the new 1000 TLDs
15:57 <@RangerZ> I might be wrong... since I haven't -really- had to deal with it... but my understanding was that it was full unicode support within 'subsets of unicode'
15:58 < aestetix> the funny thing is
15:58 < aestetix> until today I thought it was a networking issue
15:58 < aestetix> but it turned out that the reason the system didn't come back up after reboot was because it was doing reboot cycles
15:59 <@RangerZ> aestetix: the system have that mobo network login features (forget name, but puts additional nic on system that you can log into)
16:01 < aestetix> you mean a bridge?
16:04 < aestetix> this compile is taking forever
16:09 <@RangerZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_DRAC something like this
16:14 <@RangerZ> or https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Servers-Workstations/ASMB6iKVM/
16:21  * dasunt takes a deep breath and continues with hour four of Unicode hell.
16:23 <@dasunt> I wonder how well it would go over if I told this user that really, there's never a way to guarantee the recipient will see the same thing that we see.
16:25  * dasunt starts to read up on IDN.
16:27 <@dasunt> At this point, I'm beginning to think that the idea of a genocidal madman who conquers the entire world and turns it into one monolithic culture isn't entirely bad.
16:27 <@dasunt> Sure, there's math deaths, but character encoding and conversion is made very simple.
16:28 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ugHP-yZXw
16:28 <@RangerZ> [GHOSTBUSTERS - Official Trailer (HD)]
16:29 <@RangerZ> the new all-female one, not the new all-male one
16:35 <@dasunt> There's a new all-male one?
16:45 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: ipmi
17:17 <@sasquatc3> huzzah, step one with comcast done, now to wait for tech phone interview and in person
17:18 <@sasquatc3> really shows me how much echostar shits on us when comcast says no problem to essentially what is a 30% pay raise
17:23 <@RangerZ> dasunt: yeah, they are making a -different- remake of ghostbusters with an all male cast
17:25 <@RangerZ> Evilpig: yeah, thats the name
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18:19 <@RangerZ> aestetix: FYI, -another- clown-show tonight in ~1.5hrs
18:42 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: When does the touring circus stop?
18:42 < _NSAKEY> It seems like they put on a show or two every week.
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20:35 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: when the current baby boomer generation dies
20:55 <@Dagmar> OKay.  I don't think i'm trying very hard here.
20:55 <@Dagmar> I'm only violating two RFCs so far
21:14 <@Dagmar> Now to get both these cards running their own APs separately
21:51 <@Dagmar> Pfft.
21:51 <@Dagmar> Well, they were both running for a moment there
21:56 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: working on new RaPI 3?
21:56 <@Dagmar> No, since they're presently out of stock everywhere in the US
21:56 <@Dagmar> Just the RPi2
21:56 <@Dagmar> Getting the two wireless cards running at the same time
21:56 <@Dagmar> Apparently Raspbian uses dhcpcd, which grabs all the damn interfaces at once
21:58 <@Dagmar> I *think* that's got it
21:59 <@Dagmar> If I can find my damn soldering pencil I'll jsut tote this thing in it's book tomorrow
21:59 <@RangerZ> ohh btw I tried running the scripts I had for the 3ds streetpass you made, and it doesn't work
22:02 <@Dagmar> okay... now to disable wmm
22:03 <@Dagmar> Hmm... If you could be more descriptive about "doesn't work"
22:03 <@Dagmar> THe script isn't terribly unreadable
22:03 <@Dagmar> It DOES require you pass it a couple arguments tho
22:05 <@Dagmar> Hmm... Looks like the dhcpd jammed up
22:06 <@Dagmar> Now for some fake DNS zones
22:06 <@RangerZ> ohh I sorta wrapped it with some scripts that auto ran
22:07 <@Dagmar> IF I can get this shit working, tomorrow people will be able to connect to PhreakNIC-20-public and get a PDF "ticket"
22:07 <@Dagmar> ...and then connect to PhreakNIC-20-private, and scan it.
22:07 <@RangerZ> I didn't really care at the time 'really' what was going on, I just noticed end-results
22:07 <@RangerZ> I'll have to look into it more later
22:07 <@Dagmar> You have to pass it two arguments IIRC
22:07 <@Dagmar> One being the interface to use and the other being the location short-name
22:09 <@RangerZ> yeah, I had a script that had everything contained into one script
22:09 <@RangerZ> and I haven't teouched that netbook since
22:10 <@RangerZ> I'll probably take a look at it in more detail this weekend
22:13  * oddball pops in
22:15 <@oddball> I'll ask again at the meeting tomorrow, but anyone want to do a panel at Hypericon in June?
22:16 <@oddball> Dagmar: I think our programming director is actually looking for someone that knows about pokemon.
22:18 <@RangerZ> oddball: did you see new ghostbusters trailer?
22:19 <@Dagmar> ehwot?
22:19 <@Dagmar> GOTTA SUBJUGATE THEM ALL
22:20 <@Dagmar> How much am I supposed to admit to knowing about Pokemon?
22:20 <@RangerZ> looking for full "Dagmar" or more "Dag and Mar" from last PN ?
22:21 <@oddball> Dagmar: Well, you'd be on a panel about it, so... a decent amount.
22:22 <@oddball> Because apparently it's the 20th anniversary.
22:22 <@Dagmar> I play it, but if you ask me "What elemntal type is Buggeridoo?" I'm going to say 'Butt type, obviously.'
22:23 <@RangerZ> oddball: is there an official CFP ?
22:24 <@oddball> I can give you the email address of our programming director.
22:24 <@RangerZ> ohh look http://www.hypericon.net/
22:24 <@RangerZ> it actually works
22:24 <@RangerZ> hehe
22:26 <@oddball> She's pestering me for tech panels, so I thought I'd ask here. :)
22:26 <@oddball> I need to remember to pester Amy tomorrow.
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22:29 <@oddball> Scifi cons tend to not do an official CFPs.  People feel free to pester them.
22:34 <@Dagmar> Oh.  I finally remembered WTF I was thinking of for further securing the tickets
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22:34 <@Dagmar> So like, right now, if someone manages to somehow get ahold of the on-site redemption list/file, they would be able to gin up tickets
22:35 <@Dagmar> ...so I actually need to pass a second secret over in the ticket itself
22:36 <@Dagmar> Thankfully, we do NOT need a fuckton more keyspace for it
22:36 <@Dagmar> I figure, six base-64 digits as a second param, which can be compared against the sha256 value stored should be brutal enough
22:37 <@Dagmar> Actually, lemme look up WTF isn't currently vulnerable to rainbow tables
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22:38 <@RangerZ> Dagmar: Shamir's secret sharing
22:38 <@RangerZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing
22:39 <@RangerZ> but that would require you to generate keys, and then share 1 of the keys with the guest
22:39 <@RangerZ> and then keep one
22:39 <@RangerZ> its conceptually perfect with no vulnerabilties
22:40 <@RangerZ> ....implemntation... that is another thing, but for our purposes, if you use a java/python library that includes it, you'll be fine
22:41 <@RangerZ> its what they use to cut the DNS key into 9 parts and you can recreate the key if you get any 5
22:42 <@RangerZ> sorry 7* http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/28/seven-people-keys-worldwide-internet-security-web
22:46 <@RangerZ> ./msg oddball you wanna see dagmar rant at tomorrow's meeting? just tell him that element14 has rapi3 in stock, and that he should hurry up
22:46 <@Dagmar> This doesn't appear to be something that WOULD FIT IN A QRCODE
22:46 <@RangerZ> "whoops" ;)
22:46 <@Dagmar> Needs to be kinda smallish
22:47 <@RangerZ> yeah it would, the 'part' of the key is actually smallish, its just a point in space
22:47 <@RangerZ> so an X and an Y
22:47 <@Dagmar> THey also need to bring just one thing
22:47 <@Dagmar> Not some fuckin' confetti
22:48 <@Dagmar> I am trying to keep it so that people on a shitphone will be able to just pull it up on that screen and have it scannable
22:48 <@Dagmar> So, something like http://pn20.pwnz.org/?q=f1d2d2f924e986ac86fdf7b36c94bcdf32beec15&r=f1d2d2f9
22:49 <@Dagmar> Actually, now that I fuckin' think about it
22:49 <@Dagmar> No wait... collisions.
22:50 <@RangerZ> I say just fuck it and require legal state ID, solves two problems
22:50 <@RangerZ> no aestetix , and less hassle
22:50 <@RangerZ> hehe
22:52 <@Dagmar> heheh
22:53 <@Dagmar> Okay, so... for the ticket we're just generating about 32-bits of random bullshit and running shasum over it to get the Q parameter, which is the index for the tickets file
22:54 <@Dagmar> The R "ticket secret" is just eight base64 chars that have had shasum applied, and THAT value is stored in the tickets file
22:55 <@Dagmar> So, if somene gets the tickets file, they'll have to brute force the correct value for R
22:56 <@Dagmar> Actually, that one can be sha256, and I think I'll bump it to 16 base64 characters
22:58 <@Dagmar> I'm trying to stick with common-as-dirt packages
23:01 <@Dagmar> ...and because I am a lazy man... now searching for the uuid perl packae
23:06 <@Dagmar> No wait, I don't think I'll need that
23:08 <@RangerZ> oddball: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypericon needs some tlc
23:09 <@RangerZ> and not the (house|wife)-swap/(amazing|neighbor)-houseswap/20kids-and-counting type
23:09 <@RangerZ> hehe
23:16 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: *sigh*
23:17 <@Dagmar> Just occurred to me as I was scribbling this out in insane-o-type code...
23:17 <@Dagmar> I might as well just fucking generate a UUID and put that in the QRCode without anything unnecessarily fancy
23:17 <@Dagmar> ...and just fuckin' sha256 it and look that up as the index.
23:18  * Dagmar adds uuid and libdata-uuid-perl back to the dependency list
23:23 <@Dagmar> This puts it well into the nipples-twisting-off range
23:26 < aestetix> just woke up
23:26 < aestetix> time to tune into the debate
23:26 < aestetix> and the punches are already coming
23:34 <@RangerZ> doesn't matter, the race's dynamics are already set in stone
23:34 <@RangerZ> it just depends if "everyone who is not trump" can get 50%+1 of the delegates or not
23:34 < aestetix> hahah
23:35 <@RangerZ> we WILL have a brokered convention
23:35 < aestetix> I love watching the GOP have a fucking meltdown
23:35 <@RangerZ> despite what "liberal" chris mathews (actually very conservative/establishment) thinks about how "they won't do it"
23:37 <@RangerZ> he basically had a meltdown trying to get a repbulican to 'admit' that "they won't dare to have a brokered conv."
23:41 < aestetix> wow I have never seen anything like this
23:41 < aestetix> fox news is putting data on the screen to attack trump
23:41 <@RangerZ> i honestly... i can't watch it
23:42 <@RangerZ> it just.... it just.... hurts my head...
23:43 <@RangerZ> I can't allow myself to enjoy the mobid curiosity of how/when this Wile. E. Coyote is going to realize it has already ran off the cliff
23:47 < aestetix> I love how all the audience in the background is waving at the camera
23:49 <@RangerZ> its funny (in that gallows humor way) that these people are the only ones actually asking moderately tough questions
23:50 <@RangerZ> b/c they can't be labelled as 'the gotcha liberal media"
23:56 <@RangerZ> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2RchZoB_ng
23:57 <@RangerZ> we need the bot to tell about this title
23:57 <@RangerZ> [Fox News Republican Debate Detroit | Trump Defends His Penis]
--- Log closed Fri Mar 04 00:00:57 2016