--- Log opened Wed Feb 24 00:00:38 2016
05:32 <@Dagmar> _NSAKEY:  ...and he still says he has no idea why someone would shoot at him http://www.newschannel5.com/news/former-employee-sues-rutherford-co-sheriffs-office
05:32 < PigBot> Title: Former Employee Sues Rutherford Co. Sheriffs Office - Story (at www.newschannel5.com) http://tinyurl.com/hgdhblm
05:47 < aestetix> wow even the New York Times is getting bad
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06:23 <@Dolemite> mr0ning, be0tches and h0ez!
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06:52 < aestetix> I'm sick of hearing about the plight of women and minorities. I would be VERY interested to hear how many people are rejected from opportunities BECAUSE they are women and minorities.
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08:20 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: I've been reading this: https://mgtvwkrn.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/virgil-gammon-suit.pdf
08:20 < PigBot> _NSAKEY: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
08:20 < _NSAKEY> I've been hearing murmurs that some people think the shooting on the sheriff's house was staged to gain sympathy.
08:21 < _NSAKEY> If Rutherford county wasn't so batshit insane, I wouldn't think that maybe they're right.
08:22 < _NSAKEY> In any case, I'm waiting for the feds to figure out that one of the guys Arnold hired from Wilson county is allegedly deeply involved in selling mass quantities of stolen goods. THAT will get hilarious.
08:23 < aestetix> so do you think Trump will win TN?
08:24 <@Dolemite> Yeah
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08:30 < aestetix> well at least he won't win California
08:31 <@Dolemite> Are you talking about primary or general election?
08:32 <@RangerZ> aestetix: why do you say that?
08:32 < aestetix> Well.... I guess he'll win the primary, but there are not so many republicans in CA
08:33 < aestetix> in the general CA is always democratic
08:33 <@RangerZ> ohh you mean in 'general'
08:33 <@Dolemite> Really?  Is that why Ronald Reagan lost there?  Oh, wait, never mind.  He didn't lose CA.
08:33 < aestetix> Dolemite: Reagan started out as a democrat
08:33 <@Dolemite> But it's not about how many Republicans are in CA, it's about how many districts of CA have a Republican majority.
08:33 <@RangerZ> also, that was when there -actually were- a lot of moderatse
08:34 <@RangerZ> moderates*, the country has bifurcated
08:34 <@Dolemite> Rural areas tend to lean Republican, Metropolitan areas tend to lean Democrat.  CA has a large population, but mostly concentrated in the cities.  There are a LOT of districts that are purely rural.
08:35 <@Dolemite> Just like TN has a LOT of folks who are center to left, but the districts are drawn such that it nearly always goes red.
08:35 <@RangerZ> Dolemite: the perfect example of that is how CA is going to VOTE on to break into 6? states next year
08:35 <@RangerZ> "jefferson" would be the most rural (also poorest) state in the nation
08:36 < aestetix> is Ohio gerrymandered?
08:36 <@RangerZ> oh god yes
08:36 <@Dolemite> All states are gerrymandered to an extent
08:36 < aestetix> because it seems like all the elections swing on ohio
08:36 <@RangerZ> Ohio is like the 3rd/4th most gerrymandered
08:36 <@RangerZ> no one wins over NC right now
08:37 <@RangerZ> have you seen their 2 districts that were ruled unconstitional?
08:37 <@RangerZ> basically gives blacks/democrats 2 seats at like 90%
08:37 <@RangerZ> and republicans/whites 13 seats at 55%
08:40 <@RangerZ> https://www.fastcompany.com/3057045/how-apple-could-be-punished-for-defying-fbi-encryption-order
08:40 < PigBot> RangerZ: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
08:42 <@RangerZ> well one thing is "for sure" The Republican Party will be principled, and say that "the federal government shouldn't 'make' you do anything, such as 'make you buy health insurance' or 'write a backdoored version of your OS', because they would otherwise be hypocrites
08:46 < aestetix> RangerZ: did you see my new pgp fingerprint?
08:47 <@RangerZ> no
08:47 <@RangerZ> how would I have?
08:47 < aestetix> 0xdeadbeef
08:47 <@RangerZ> ok...
08:47 <@RangerZ> how did you manage that?
08:47 < aestetix> a lot of CPU resources :p
08:48 <@RangerZ> i hope you did the responsible thing, and used a russian forum to rent a 'distributed network of heterogeneous compute units'
08:48 < aestetix> lol
08:53 < aestetix> but as you can see
08:53 < aestetix> http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x90EA466FDEADBEEF
08:53 < PigBot> Title: Search results for '0x90ea466fdeadbeef' (at pgp.mit.edu) http://tinyurl.com/zc7kteh
08:53 <@RangerZ> thats like facebook's tor node
08:53 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: That's the sort of thing you'd ideally use GPUs to do.
08:54 < _NSAKEY> You mean their hidden service?
08:54 < _NSAKEY> What happened there is that facebook ran a bunch of copies of scallion and got lucky.
08:54 <@RangerZ> wasn't the 'random' key somethig like... '....facebook'
08:54 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: that is exactly what happened
08:54 < _NSAKEY> I actually saw them mention that they used GPUs to do that, which can only mean that scallion was the tool they used.
08:54 < aestetix> really fucking lucky
08:55 <@RangerZ> no, they have the resources to throw at it
08:55 < _NSAKEY> The .onion address is derived from a 1024-bit RSA key, which is kind of scary to think about in 2016.
08:55 < aestetix> oh fuck
08:55 < aestetix> 1024 bit?
08:55 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: You didn't know that?
08:55 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: I don't use tor much
08:55 < aestetix> I mean I have used it and set it up, but beyond that I haven't bothered looking at those details
08:55 < _NSAKEY> There's a proposal to move to ED25519, but onion addresses will be ~43 characters after that.
08:55 < aestetix> and that is a bit scary
08:56 <@RangerZ> https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/
08:56 < PigBot> Couldn't snarf url: Unknown host.. http://tinyurl.com/pbca32r
08:56 <@RangerZ> there we go
08:56 < _NSAKEY> There also hasn't been any appreciable effort to actually implement the proposal that I'm aware of.
08:56 <@RangerZ> oh shit... i propably borked PigBot
08:57 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: There's also no way to dump the key on a hardware security module and have it work.
08:57 <@RangerZ> actually the search space becomes -much- easier when you are trying to hit 'one of MANY possible keys'
08:57 < _NSAKEY> I wasn't the first one to think, "What if I put all this on a yubikey? Could it be made to work?" Nope.
08:57 <@RangerZ> thats like how you only need 22 people 'on average' to have people with the same birthday
08:57 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: You can set scallion to run continuously, and dump all the matching keys into a text file.
08:58 < _NSAKEY> That's what facebook did, and when they got bored with running scallion they started going through the files and looking at what keys they had generated.
08:58 < _NSAKEY> ^facebook would take a lot longer to match than ^se2600, for example.
08:59 <@RangerZ> 'approximately' 2^8
08:59 <@RangerZ> *cough*cough*
08:59 < _NSAKEY> The good thing for facebook is that they effectively took on zooko's triangle.
08:59 < _NSAKEY> That URL is utterly memorable, so phishing attempts just aren't going to happen.
09:00 < _NSAKEY> I'd say a vanity HS URL like that is less vulnerable to phishing than a "normal" one.
09:00 < _NSAKEY> The normal ones are generally harder to memorize.
09:00 <@RangerZ> has .onion addresses allowed 'full unicode' ?
09:00 < _NSAKEY> It's just a-z and 0-9, RangerZ.
09:00 <@RangerZ> because I'm -still- waiting for THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT to come back to bite us in the ass
09:01 < _NSAKEY> Ok, I need to go.
09:01 <@RangerZ> b/c them allowing 'all unicode' in domain names is a fucking HORRIBLE idea
09:01 < aestetix> lol
09:01 < aestetix> my friend registered terrorism.networks, in arabic
09:02 <@RangerZ> 'le sigh'
09:04 <@RangerZ> because .... wwww\u05C5facebook.com is a 'valid' URL
09:04 <@RangerZ> and it would 'look' like "www.facebook.com" visually
09:07 <@RangerZ> www.⨄⨅⨂.com
09:08 <@RangerZ> actually... ⨂.com would be a GREAT xmen fan site
09:09  * RangerZ just made google domains cry
09:09 <@RangerZ> I've _never_ seen a google page load THIS slowly
09:15 <@RangerZ> https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/702442064387186688
09:15 <@RangerZ> :/
09:15 <@RangerZ> ohh yeah... I borked PigBot
09:15 <@RangerZ> but Evilpig porks it... so it should be alright
09:17 <@Evilpig> for your wtf link of the day.  https://stacksocial.com/sales/siam-7x-dual-display-smartphone?aid=a-0m8ddxmy
09:17 < PigBot> Title: Siam 7x Dual Display Smartphone | StackSocial (at stacksocial.com) http://tinyurl.com/zosxwjs
09:20 <@RangerZ> lol
09:22 <@RangerZ> I expected a flip phone sorta like DS
09:22 <@RangerZ> but no...
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09:26 <@RangerZ> I could see a funny skit with conjoined twins using that
09:26 <@RangerZ> hehe
09:26 <@oddball> Wow.  I've seen phones with a smaller screen on the other side, but not one with full sized screens on both sides.
09:28 <@RangerZ> oddball: just picture Evilpig with two heads using that
09:28 <@RangerZ> that makes it all the better, the comicalness of it
09:31 <@oddball> I can see having an eInk screen on the flip side actually being attractive.  Works a hell of a lot better for reading books than LED.
09:31 <@RangerZ> yeah
09:32 <@RangerZ> actually
09:32 <@RangerZ> that would be -very- attractive feature
09:33 <@RangerZ> when you aren't using it, you could make the back a picture of your kids
09:33 <@RangerZ> or the tri-force for us
09:33 <@RangerZ> hehe
09:33 <@oddball> There you go.
09:33 <@oddball> Of course, no extended battery or case with that thing.
09:34 <@RangerZ> if they would just make phones with...  you know... 7ah batteries to start with
09:34 <@RangerZ> it wouldn't be an issue
09:35 <@oddball> This is very true.
09:35 <@RangerZ> OR even hot swappable 2x 3ah batteries
09:35 <@RangerZ> THAT would be nice
09:35 <@RangerZ> apparently the new LG has something like that
09:35 <@oddball> After getting the ZeroLemon battery for my Galaxy S4, I actually had the thought "why the fuck don't they just ship with this battery?"
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09:36 <@RangerZ> +1
09:37 <@oddball> Yes, it means that the phone is a bit thicker, but the "rugged" case that I got with it is still a little smaller than the OtterBox that it was in before.
09:37 <@oddball> Oh, and I added the OtterBox in part because it was so damn thin that I was having issues holding it.
09:38 <@oddball> Yeah.  The new LG phone is supposed to have a really nifty feature that reminds me of the old Handspring PDAs.
09:38 <@RangerZ> so Caterpiller CAT (yes the construction equipment company) has a new phone coming out that actually has a unique feature I really like
09:38 <@RangerZ> http://www.cnet.com/products/cat-s60/
09:38 < PigBot> Title: Cat S60 Release Date, Price and Specs - CNET (at www.cnet.com) http://tinyurl.com/js8x5yo
09:38 <@RangerZ> a Flir thermal imaging camera
09:39 <@RangerZ> which it overlays with the normal digitcal camera
09:39 <@RangerZ> so you get 'movie' like photos
09:39 <@oddball> huh, neat.
09:39 <@RangerZ> but that actually 'has uses'
09:39 <@RangerZ> especially -in construction-
09:39 <@oddball> right
09:39 <@RangerZ> 'are these wires heating up'
09:40 <@RangerZ> or even in tech/geeky ways 'where is the hotzone in my computer case'
09:40 <@opticron> and "oh, that electrical fire looks neat in IR"
09:40 <@opticron> I'd enjoy having that feature, I just borrowed a FLIR camera from work to check out my house
09:40 <@opticron> found some glaring insulation issues
09:40 <@RangerZ> or the 'ohh look, the hot neighbors are having sex, and now I can record it through the wall' ... or not
09:41 <@oddball> And I've seen that Samsung is fixing a couple issues I have with the S6 with the S7.  They're putting a microSD card slot back in and making it water resistant.
09:41 <@RangerZ> yeah, dag was ranting about that the other morning
09:41 <@RangerZ> lol
09:41 <@oddball> Still no removable battery, but it's back into the "I'd consider it" category.
09:41 <@Evilpig> oddball: the microsd was meh, the removable battery was my issue
09:41 <@Dolemite> RangerZ: There have been IR camera add-on for Apple and Android phones for a while
09:42 <@Evilpig> the waterproof is a plus
09:42 <@oddball> The fact that the S6 was completely sealed and *less* water resistant than the S5 and S4 just made my head hurt.
09:42 <@RangerZ> Dolemite: yes, I'm aware, but AFAIK this is the first 'built in'
09:43 <@oddball> Evilpig: I've had phones die that had data on them that I wanted.  Fortunately, that data was on the SD card.
09:43 <@RangerZ> oddball: Samsung phones never die, ask Samsung
09:43 <@Dolemite> Fuck Samsung
09:44 <@RangerZ> also, digital backups are perfect, that is why you never need to backup your backups ;)
09:44  * RangerZ *coughs*atleastgleemusicwassaved*cough*
09:44 <@Dolemite> They refused to even fix my wife's phone for a fee because they said it had gotten wet, even though the little indicator strips on the inside had never turned purple
09:44 <@oddball> Oh, and the one phone that I've bricked while trying to upgrade was the HTC One X... with no removable storage.  I could have fixed it if I could transfer a new image to the phone for it to mount... but couldn't have that!
09:44 <@Evilpig> oddball: that's a good reason, but I also move all my pictures off to dropbox or google photos now so the microsd isn't a big deal, to me
09:45 <@Dolemite> I like the new LG G5, but am sure it will be priced way out of my range for at least a year
09:45 <@opticron> oddball, adb sideload?
09:45 <@oddball> Yeah... tried that. No joy.
09:45 <@oddball> Dolemite: Especially now that phone companies don't do subsidized phones?
09:46 <@oddball> And keep trying to tell me that this somehow saves me money?  Because I can't do math?
09:46 <@Evilpig> I like that they aren't doing subsidized phones anymore and the plans stayed the same rates
09:47 <@Dolemite> Yeah, it saves you money if you keep your phone longer than 24 months at a time.  Otherwise, uh no.
09:47 <@oddball> Except that they're not lowering my rate.
09:47 <@Dolemite> Prezactly
09:47 <@oddball> So... no.  It doesn't.
09:47 < dfused> quit spending your money on hookers and blow and you'll be able to afford nice phones
09:47 < aestetix> I just got rid of my phone.
09:48 <@RangerZ> dfused: I'd rather not have a nice phone then
09:48 <@Dolemite> dfused:  How did you know that's what I named my kids?
09:48 <@Evilpig> dfused: but I like hookers and blow
09:48 < dfused> lol
09:48  * RangerZ enjoys this room's sense of humor
09:48 <@oddball> Oh, and they still want to sell you the same locked down phones with their bloatware crap on it and features disabled.
09:48 < aestetix> Evilpig: yeah, you gotta get laid somehow
09:48 <@RangerZ> oddball: thats why I'm thinking HARD about moving to ting.com
09:49 <@oddball> mmmmm.... hookers and blow...
09:49 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: notlarry did
09:49 <@Evilpig> he's had positive things to say about them
09:49 <@oddball> Hadn't heard of them.
09:49 <@RangerZ> you buy a sim card, and then they only charge you for what you use
09:49 <@Evilpig> his bill with 4 phones is about what mine is with one
09:49 <@oddball> I figure I'll just buy an unlocked phone of the internet, since there's now no benifit to buying one from the store.
09:49 <@RangerZ> but at 'reasonable' rates, not what OTHER cell companies think is 'reasonable'
09:50 <@oddball> Oh, and ATT has started trying to charge upgrade charges for.... uh... moving the SIM from one phone to the other.
09:50 <@RangerZ> oddball: are you fucking kidding me?
09:50 <@oddball> nope
09:50 < aestetix> ok so maybe you guys can shed light on this
09:50 < aestetix> why exactly is git so hard to use?
09:51 <@RangerZ> aestetix: are you fucking kidding me?
09:51 < aestetix> let me rephrase.... why do people complain that git is hard to use?
09:51 < aestetix> I find git quite easy
09:51 <@RangerZ> because Linus made it, so he named shit oddly
09:51 <@RangerZ> lol
09:51 < aestetix> oh lol
09:51 <@RangerZ> and that is an 'honest' critical hit for it
09:51 < aestetix> I mean I keep seeing all these "UI/UX talks" at cons saying computer tools need to be more usable
09:51 < aestetix> Why can't people just learn how to use the command line?
09:51 < aestetix> Is it really that fucking hard?
09:52 <@RangerZ> aestetix: yes
09:52 <@RangerZ> most people can't type faster than 10 words a minute
09:52 <@opticron> I've seen a lot of kids hunting and pecking
09:52 < aestetix> RangerZ: there's this thing called practice
09:52 <@Evilpig> RangerZ: i'd be willing to bet that most kids can type 10wpm easily on their phones
09:52 <@opticron> even late 20s people
09:53 < aestetix> opticron: heh the last time I was "officially" clocked was 10 years ago, at 83 wpm
09:53 <@oddball> because command line is haaaarrrrrd.
09:53 < dfused> you need to be clocked up side the head
09:53 <@opticron> windows has ruined them
09:53 < aestetix> So instead of learning the command line, they bitch and complain for people to build them graphical UIs
09:53 <@RangerZ> aestetix: the real reason is : it is harder to hand-hold through CLI
09:53 < aestetix> whatever happened to RTFM
09:54 < aestetix> RangerZ: then don't fucking hand hold
09:54 < aestetix> let them learn the way we all did
09:54 <@Mirage> aestetix: google?
09:54 <@RangerZ> yeah... b/c iOS proves that is 'profitable'
09:54 <@RangerZ> ohh wait
09:54 <@RangerZ> iOS barely lets you do anything (at least early versions)
09:54 < aestetix> Mirage: that works too
09:55 < aestetix> But the complaining that they need better GUIs reinforces the idea that coders are this service that they can call upon
09:55 <@RangerZ> you are forgetting that this is preaching to the -professional chior- , you have to remember, that most people are NOT inquisitive
09:55 < aestetix> RangerZ: no I totally get that
09:56 < aestetix> But let me put it this way
09:56 < aestetix> The way in which they approach this shit.... it's like if I moved to Russia and demanded everyone speak english to me.
09:57 <@Evilpig> you're american, that's expected
09:57 < dfused> +1
09:57 <@oddball> Look at it this way, a more shallow learning curve means that more people will actually fucking use it.
09:58 < aestetix> oddball: but it has the side effect of them getting just deep enough in to realize it's complex, and then they complain
09:58 <@RangerZ> you also gotta remember that UI/UX is very often NOT a 'predictable science' in that we generally have NO IDEA 'why' something works until much much later
09:58 <@oddball> GIMP is really damn powerful, but I had to do a google search to figure out how to draw a fucking circle.  That's a problem.
09:58 <@RangerZ> +1
09:58 <@RangerZ> IP is like that
09:58 <@RangerZ> ifconfig/ipconfig follow a set pattern
09:58 <@Evilpig> ip is like that and the man pages for it aren't great
09:58 < aestetix> oddball: right, but you did a search and figured it out. You didn't complain on twitter about it
09:59 <@RangerZ> aestetix: only b/c neither he nor I use twitter much
09:59 <@RangerZ> lol
09:59 <@oddball> Actually, I did, because the way you draw a circle in GIMP is fucking stupid.
09:59 < aestetix> haha
09:59 <@RangerZ> also, 'complain' on twitter is the 'point' of twitter
10:00 < aestetix> ok ok ok
10:00 < aestetix> What would have happened if oddball downloaded GIMP, tried to do something, couldn't figure it out, and then wrote a long email to the gimp mailing list complainig about it?
10:00 <@RangerZ> but seriously, the first time I tried to use 'ip' I was like 'wtf'
10:00 <@oddball> When the draw program that came with DeskMate 2 on my Tandy 1000 was more intuitive... there's a problem.
10:01 <@RangerZ> the 'help' was shity, the man, wasn't clear, and I was like 'it just shouldn't be this hard to figure it out'
10:01 <@RangerZ> and that is their point, 'min. viable investment' should be as low as possible for early use of tools
10:02 <@RangerZ> you should NOT have to 'google how to' do something in a tool
10:02 <@RangerZ> it should have guides, and help built in
10:03 < dfused> now yoube gone too far
10:03 <@RangerZ> also, every app/tool should have easter eggs in it that makes fun of weev
10:04 <@oddball> aestetix: I see it as a huge issue with FOSS.  The folks that are deep into it tend to forget the pain they went through learning this shit and tell folks "simply select a circular area, then a slightly smaller circular area, then fill in the difference" instead of "you know what? You're right.  This is a common task.  There should be an option for "draw a fucking circle."
10:04 < dfused> MY EYES!
10:04 < aestetix> oddball: let me put it this way. You want to ride a bike, so you use training wheels. But at some point, you outgrow it.
10:04 <@RangerZ> yes, and their point is, 'we need to have training wheels'
10:04 < aestetix> Instead, there's a whole generation of folks who are demanding a bigger and better training wheel.
10:04 <@RangerZ> how are you missing this?
10:04 <@Evilpig> oddball: Dolemite and I have to deal with that kind of shit regularly with opendcim.  we really do put a ton of work into making the UI work like people think it should
10:05 < aestetix> RangerZ: I'm suggesting that many of us already have a way we have learned this stuff, and that was our training wheels.
10:05 <@oddball> aestetix: I don't want to have to build the enitre bike from scratch every time I want to ride to the store.  Other people make bikes that stay assembled.
10:05 < aestetix> These people are saying "we want our own special training wheels"
10:05 <@RangerZ> aestetix: just because 'we did it this way' doesn't make it ideal
10:06 <@RangerZ> we also fucking compiled our own linux kernels, doens't mean that is a 'valid use of time' for most people
10:06 < aestetix> Never said it did.
10:06 < aestetix> lol
10:06 <@oddball> Evilpig: Because you're not asshats.
10:06 < aestetix> RangerZ: does it inherently put the onus on us to create new training wheels?
10:07 <@Evilpig> oddball: weird al VIP presale tickets are up.  $270 each
10:07 < aestetix> oddball: well FOSS has its own set of issues.
10:07 <@Evilpig> and it looks like from the map over half of them are already gone.  I hate ticketmaster
10:07 <@oddball> RangerZ: About ip, yeah... I had similar heartache with samba a while back.  I never could get SWAT to actually work, so I had to learn the ins and outs of the command line an config files.
10:07 < aestetix> RangerZ: I mean, there's also a pied piper issue. I keep seeing all these cryptoparties getting everyone using pgp, but there are some major problems with pgp.
10:08 < aestetix> So designing a better UI for it before those problems are fixed will only fuck people over in the long run.
10:08 <@oddball> Evilpig: At first I was going to say "you're fucking kidding me," but then I realized you said "VIP tickets."
10:08 < aestetix> also, vagina
10:09 <@oddball> I'm actually reminded of another personal experience.  While I was at the Vandy NOC, I was playing with building a MythTV box.
10:09 <@Evilpig> I am tempted to pick up two of their second tier vip tickets at 140 each but damn
10:09 <@oddball> Mirage handed me a DVD and said "just pop this in, install it, and it will work."
10:10 <@oddball> I did that, and nothing worked.
10:10 <@Mirage> oddball: that's cause you suck
10:10 <@Evilpig> +1
10:10 <@oddball> I asked him, and he responded "well, did you change this setting, change that config files, etc, etc."
10:10 <@Mirage> althought it could have been that it didn't like your hardware
10:10 <@Evilpig> or that mirage actually hated you
10:10 <@Mirage> ^
10:10 <@oddball> "Wait... that's what you consider "just put this in, and it'll work?!"
10:11 <@oddball> I see a lot of "oh right, I forgot 12 steps in there" issues in the world of FOSS.
10:12 <@oddball> and if the reaction was "oh, shit.  Forgot to tell you about..." that would be one thing, but the reaction is often "well, any idiot knows that you have to do x, y, and z."
10:14 <@Dolemite> Sadly, most of the questions we get on openDCIM are related to people not knowing how to set up a LAMP server, or going against the grain and trying to set it up as a WAMP/XAMPP server.
10:15 <@Dolemite> "It keeps telling me that I don't have user authentication set up.  Your software is a piece of shit!"
10:15 <@Mirage> Dolemite: yeah, LAMP is hard.  yum install php mysql-server mysql httpd mod-ssl
10:15 <@oddball> ...yeah...
10:16 <@Dolemite> Most of the time they are Windows admins and have never touched a command line
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10:17 <@Evilpig> the nginx folks are funny too
10:18 <@Evilpig> they are least generally know that they are doing something not supported and have a clue on how to straighten it out
10:18 < aestetix> Dolemite: I have PTSD now, I've had to work on a Windows Server 2012 system lately
10:19 < aestetix> It is a bunch of "click.... wait..... did something happen? click.... wait..."
10:19 <@oddball> heh
10:21 < aestetix> I can't imagine what it's like to try to find something in a config file, when you don't know which config file it's in
10:21 < aestetix> Or maybe Windows admins don't bother with config files
10:30 <@Mirage> windows admins just type what they want in the search box and it automagically finds it for them
10:30 < dfused> powershell
10:31 <@Evilpig> http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/t-mobile-unboxes-galaxy-s7-underwater/
10:31 < PigBot> Evilpig: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 20480 bytes.
11:01 < aestetix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOek9LAwuU
11:01 < PigBot> Title: Hilarious "Windows support" scammer calls Linux user and fails big time! - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) http://tinyurl.com/k63pwb9
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11:26 <@RangerZ> aestetix: so what you are saying is that 'windows needs a better UX, with a less steep beginer learning curve' ? hehe
11:27 <@RangerZ> from the admin POV
11:27 <@RangerZ> kiklol
11:27 <@RangerZ> lol*
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11:51 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: That youtube PigBot scrape reminds me of the time I called some support scammer and he asked what I ran.
11:51 < _NSAKEY> I told him "OpenBSD."
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11:59 < aestetix> RangerZ: no, Windows needs a better OS
12:09 < _NSAKEY> Windows just needs to die. End of story.
12:10 < aestetix> _NSAKEY: well, any windows system left without updates will automatically die of exposure.
12:12 < dasunt> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35585087
12:12 < PigBot> Title: Fake girlfriend, revisited - BBC News (at www.bbc.com) http://tinyurl.com/jy4mgvo
12:12 < dasunt> "An extensive how-to guide contains tips such as how to talk about your girlfriend/boyfriend, what questions to expect from pushy friends, and common mistakes people make when lying through their teeth about an imaginary human."
12:12 < dasunt> Best line from the article.
12:14 < aestetix> so.....
12:14 < aestetix> are there any curses-based web browsers that support HTML5?
12:16 < dasunt> aestetix: Have you checked links, lynx and w3m?
12:17 < dasunt> I don't know if they support it or not, but you could check the release notes.
12:17 < aestetix> yes
12:17 < aestetix> well, I checked links
12:17 < aestetix> and I assume lynx does not
12:17 < aestetix> because it's fucking lynx
12:17 < aestetix> and with links, given that you have to compile graphical support into it to get images...
12:19 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: What about elinks?
12:20 < aestetix> I do not know.
12:20 < aestetix> as in I haven't looked at that
12:22 < _NSAKEY> I just figured out that elinks doesn't really render my personal site very well.
12:22 < _NSAKEY> I used some javascript glue to include the nav, and that doesn't seem to want to work.
12:23 <@RangerZ> I have a question for debian/ubuntu, with regards to 'dpkg' , the option "--add-architecture (amd64|x86|armel|arm64)" the man says "Add  architecture  to the list of architectures for which packages can be installed"
12:23 <@RangerZ> I'm not 100% sure 'exactly' what that means
12:24 <@RangerZ> does that mean you can install the arm packages on a x86 system?
12:24 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: I'm going to take a guess at this, so bear that in mind.
12:24 <@RangerZ> and "why" would you do that
12:24 < _NSAKEY> Let's say you've using AMD64 but for some reason want 32-bit packages.
12:24 < _NSAKEY> It sounds like it would let you do that.
12:25 <@RangerZ> This is useful in various ways, but the most common is installing both 64 and 32-bit software on the same machine and having dependencies correctly resolved automatically.
12:25 <@RangerZ> nvm... I found an answer
12:25 < _NSAKEY> I was just about to link you to https://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO
12:25 < PigBot> Title: Multiarch/HOWTO - Debian Wiki (at wiki.debian.org) http://tinyurl.com/aecc7xs
12:25 < _NSAKEY> It sounded like a multiarch thing.
12:25 <@RangerZ> yeah I found it
12:25 < aestetix> RangerZ: if you want lots of fun, install a 64 bit OS as a guest in a 32 bit host virtualbox
12:26 < aestetix> and pray you have enough RAM
12:26 <@RangerZ> I found it in a Dockerfile I found randomly, and I wasn't sure wtf it was doing
12:26 <@RangerZ> lol
12:26 < _NSAKEY> aestetix confirmed for CBT enthusiast.
12:45 < _NSAKEY> aestetix: PM.
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12:51 < smccombs> Hey I've just started playing with XenServer this week. We were using VMware free, but it was about like fighting bruce lee with both arms and legs tied behind you. Xen is working great, moving, migrating etc works perfect with no fees, is there anything I need to watchout for before using this alot at work?
12:52 <@RangerZ> yes
12:53 <@RangerZ> I don't know offhand, but i've been told to never use the free version of hypervisors in production
12:53 <@Dolemite> RangerZ: And you can always trust that salesperson
12:54 < smccombs> Well I don't have a budget for vmware or anything else pretty much. So I can't buy anything, which is worst something that works or nothing?
12:55 <@RangerZ> from people who got their PhDs in that area
12:56 <@RangerZ> not people who really care
12:57 <@RangerZ> smccombs: if its the only thing in your price range, then I guess its fine
12:58 <@RangerZ> smccombs: I'm in the wrong building today, so I can't ask the guys still working on it
12:59 < smccombs> Worst case scenario I have to rebuild the entire server network off copy backups, right? Hey it's just a week or two lol.
12:59 <@RangerZ> (the one research group I'm in works on advanced hypervisor/middleware algorithms/etc.
12:59 <@RangerZ> )*
12:59 < smccombs> Pretty cool
13:00 <@RangerZ> ehh
13:00 <@RangerZ> we're now working with docker
13:00 <@RangerZ> and thats really MUCH nicer when you are starting up lots of VMs with low startup costs internally
13:01 < smccombs> I played with that as well a few months ago, work is a windows shop so couldn't use it.
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13:02 < smccombs> I also looked at proxmox but several things told me no to it.
13:03 <@Evilpig> I know a few folks that use proxmox and haven't had any major issues
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13:05 < smccombs> Something about migration and moving VMs was a issue because of the kernal drivers? I'm not sure, Xen is suppose to have minor issues with that but I will know by tomorrow, I'm working on building out another xen with diffrent hardware now.
13:06 <@RangerZ> I am one of the ones who thinks that docker will become more and more common
13:06 <@RangerZ> or 'containers' if not 'docker' itself
13:06 < smccombs> This Xen just seems way to good to be true, if I get hit with a Eval License windows I'm going to burn this place down.
13:06 <@RangerZ> but docker's central repo of images is the key to its success
13:07 <@RangerZ> smccombs: where is that?
13:07  * RangerZ is not planning anything
13:07 <@RangerZ> hehe
13:07 <@Evilpig> xen isn't bad.  I used it years ago but migrated to kvm directly
13:07 < smccombs> Yes when I can click one button and have a working image in 3 mins running services. That is crazy.
13:08 < smccombs> I work for a HVAC monitoring company close to jackson TN
13:09 < smccombs> Xen to KVM, why?
13:09 <@RangerZ> no clue
13:09 <@Evilpig> because xen was running my novell stuff and kvm was running better
13:09 <@RangerZ> others, such as Dolemite, Dagmar, Evilpig  would be better ppl to ask
13:10 <@RangerZ> wow... I completely missed Evilpig 's comment
13:10 < smccombs> I can't wait until normal OSs are built like docker where apps and changes sit on top of OS images, it seems like it would be way more effective when uninstalling or restoring to a backup.
13:11 <@Dolemite> I use the free version of ESXi at home.  Paid version at work.
13:11 <@Dolemite> But I don't have to futz with mine much
13:12 < smccombs> Dolemite, yeah I've got 6 VMs on Esxi that need to be migrated and I have a feeling it will take me all afternoon to do it with the free version.
13:13 < smccombs> Evilpig, KVM is Open right? No fees?
13:14 < smccombs> RangerZ, where do you work?
13:15 <@RangerZ> Vanderbilt University
13:15 <@RangerZ> ISIS
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13:16 <@RangerZ> Institute for Software Integrated Software ;)
13:16 <@RangerZ> (yes, we're actually thinking of changing name finally)
13:16 < smccombs> lol
13:16 < smccombs> yeah, took me a google to figure it out
13:17 <@RangerZ> Institute for Software Integrated Systems**
13:17 < k3ymkr> I thought that looked redunantly redundant.
13:17 < k3ymkr> And militant, of course.
13:18 <@RangerZ> think Military complex systems, such as middleware for satelites, a system for 'systemtically designing APCs to meet certain specifications based on simulations'
13:18 <@RangerZ> etc
13:18 <@RangerZ> last semester a 4 star general came to ISIS for a meeting
13:19 <@RangerZ> I almost cried laughing at the idea of trolling conservative media with "4 star general meets with ISIS"
13:19 <@RangerZ> hehe
13:19 < k3ymkr> Well, surely they'd read the context before....nevermind
13:19 < smccombs> That's pretty cool (Univ.), I'm thinking of going back to college but I'm having to much fun working.
13:20 <@RangerZ> are you joking?
13:20 <@RangerZ> or being serious?
13:20 < smccombs> Hey you could always start a copyright war? lol
13:20 <@RangerZ> also, if you want to just 'learn new things', you should look into coursera/edx/etc.
13:20 < aestetix> penis
13:21 <@RangerZ> I'm involved with a couple coursera courses, and you'd be surprised at the statistics of who takes them
13:21 <@RangerZ> and how useful they can be
13:21 <@RangerZ> (if you pay the 50~150$ per course for a 'certificate')
13:21 < smccombs> I was serious, I have a tech degree and every time I look a a Job AP. I want to scream at them when it says degree
13:22 < smccombs> Then they also want to pay 35,000
13:23 < smccombs> I live in a hick town, they want the best and dont want to pay for it.
13:23 <@RangerZ> I know a guy in India who was going to a 3rd tier univ. in a BFE part of India, who took my advisor's coursera course, was in the top 10 submissions for the final project app he write (judged by amazon and google) and he got a paid internship here in the US at vandy for the summer (by just emailing my advisor and asking about it)
13:23 <@RangerZ> now he's applying to Ohio State Univ., Vanderbilt, MIT, etc. for grad school
13:24 <@RangerZ> and he was the first person from his univ. to EVER go to a school in the US for anything (including grad school/etc)
13:24 <@RangerZ> and you're close to jackson TN, so its not TOO MUCH different than rural parts of India ;)
13:24 <@RangerZ> hehe
13:25  * RangerZ is only a little ashmed of that (way too) LONG joke
13:25 <@RangerZ> hehe
13:28 <@RangerZ> actually smccombs is there college near there?
13:28 <@RangerZ> b/c I've been trying to remember the name of a univ/college that is actually down there
13:29 < smccombs> jackson state but its a joke
13:29 < smccombs> They have a 3-4 year CCNA major
13:30 < smccombs> CCNA is a cert why would you need 4 years to get it?
13:31 <@RangerZ> is it 'part time' ?
13:31 <@RangerZ> like you take 1 or 2 classes a semester?
13:31 < smccombs> nope
13:31 <@RangerZ> b/c that actually makes sense
13:31 <@RangerZ> ohh
13:32 <@RangerZ> my undergrad was the Cisco Regional Academy back home in Ohio, and you could get CCNA in 2 years (along with your associates)
13:32 <@RangerZ> and CCNP in 3rd year
13:32 < smccombs> I may be wrong then, but I think its 3
13:33 <@RangerZ> and then 4th and 5th/6th if you stay for masters you can get like 4~5 cisco certs along the way
13:33 <@RangerZ> but a bachelors and masters too
13:33 <@RangerZ> lol
13:33 <@RangerZ> but $4,670 per year for jscc isn't too bad
13:33 < smccombs> I've worked on my CCNA about 4 times in the last 2 years, still haven't went to take it, I should make a least a 70 but I still have a few chapters to finish
13:34 <@RangerZ> nvm... I just found it
13:34 <@RangerZ> it was Union University
13:35 < smccombs> Yeah union and martin are close but martin is agriculture mostly
13:35 < smccombs> Not sure on union
13:35 <@RangerZ> I had a student from there in their CS program contact me via a Craigslist ad where I was selling a 40u rack, where I mentioned I was a CS grad student at vandy
13:35 <@RangerZ> she wanted to pay me to do her homework
13:35 < smccombs> ..... wow
13:36 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: Did you trade it out?
13:36 <@RangerZ> I tricked her into giving me the assignment description
13:36 <@RangerZ> and then I emailed her prof
13:36 <@opticron> bwahahaha
13:36 < _NSAKEY> Hahahahaha. I remember you telling us about this as it was happening.
13:36 < smccombs> lol .... lol
13:38 <@RangerZ> there was a semi-scandal at my undergrad with a prof sleeping with a student
13:38 <@RangerZ> and I didn't want to take part in something like that
13:38 <@RangerZ> if she had asked me to -help- her, or -tutor- her, I would have done that for free
13:38 <@RangerZ> but she didn't
13:39 < smccombs> Vanderbilt University
13:39 < smccombs> Acceptance rate: 11.7% (2015)
13:39 <@RangerZ> Hey
13:39 <@RangerZ> So my name is Courtney, I am 22 female.  I was going through craigslist and ran into your ad.  What caught my attention is you said you were studying computer science!  haha, I am trying to find someone to do a program for me, I would say it is pretty simple since it is undergrad level.  Would you be willing to help, I could pay you?y
13:39 <@RangerZ> that was her first email, lol
13:40 <@RangerZ> told her I needed the assignment to be able to judge how hard it would be to give her a price
13:40 <@RangerZ> hehe
13:40 <@RangerZ> vandy is MUCH harder to get into as an undergrad than grad
13:40 < smccombs> Sounds like she needed some major help
13:41 <@RangerZ> yeah... she needed 'lots of help' from me...
13:41  * RangerZ makes giggity sound
13:41 <@RangerZ> lol
13:41 < smccombs> lol
13:41 < smccombs> I'm headed to lunch, nice meeting you RangerZ
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13:48 <@rattle> Microsoft bought Xamarin.
14:09 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: Reading that reply, I am utterly convinced that she would have traded that out.
14:09 < _NSAKEY> s/reply/first e-mail/
14:10 < _NSAKEY> So here's a question for the channel:
14:10 <@Evilpig> stop picking at it
14:10 < _NSAKEY> Is Linux Mint just a bastard hybrid of Ubuntu and Debian that only exists to showcase Cinnamon, and mostly doesn't even run its own repos?
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14:26 <@RangerZ> http://www.zdnet.com/article/hacker-hundreds-were-tricked-into-installing-linux-mint-backdoor/
14:26 < PigBot> Title: Hacker explains how he put "backdoor" in hundreds of Linux Mint downloads | ZDNet (at www.zdnet.com) http://tinyurl.com/zvv9njz
14:26 <@RangerZ> is that what spurred the question _NSAKEY ?
14:26 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: This article did, actually: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-the-linux-mint-hack-is-an-indicator-of-a-larger-problem/
14:26 < PigBot> Title: Why the Linux Mint hack is an indicator of a larger problem - TechRepublic (at www.techrepublic.com) http://tinyurl.com/j565mbh
14:27 < _NSAKEY> I'm not seeing any underlying reason for Mint to exist as a distro. At most, it should be an Ubuntu PPA and the devs should content themselves with that.
14:30 <@RangerZ> from reading about half of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint , it looks like it takes the core 'Ubuntu' (and Debian, but not in same version) and then installs custom packages and defaults
14:30 < PigBot> Title: Linux Mint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org) http://tinyurl.com/5rzzvp3
14:30 < dasunt> Now that was rude.
14:30 <@RangerZ> so its a fork, with different settings, and default programs
14:30 < dasunt> "Microsoft Technical Support" called me, asking if I was the owner of the computer in the house, a windows computer.
14:30 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: ... In other words, not enough to really justify its existence as a separate distro.
14:30 < dasunt> I told them I had an OpenBSD computer and they hung up.  :(
14:31 <@RangerZ> dasunt: who ?
14:31 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: Haha. I did the same thing once, and the guy had the grace to say that it sounds like I probably had internal people who could handle my problem.
14:31 < dasunt> RangerZ: I told you, "Microsoft Technical Support".
14:31 < _NSAKEY> I started making fun of him for working for scammers, and he hung up on me.
14:31 < _NSAKEY> The kicker? The actual company who did that particular support scam is a Microsoft partner.
14:31 <@RangerZ> god damn it... tmux is lagging
14:31 < _NSAKEY> Not even joking.
14:32 < dasunt> If I had more time today, I'd have played along.
14:32 <@RangerZ> dasunt: yes, it runs windows 98 SE
14:32 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: If you get more time, it's always fun to play along until you have to give them a CC.
14:32 < _NSAKEY> Then just be all, "Let me put you on hold while I grab that" and rick roll them.
14:32 < _NSAKEY> The longer you can tie them up, the fewer "sales" they can make.
14:33 < dasunt> _NSAKEY: Good plan.
14:33 < _NSAKEY> I made a hobby of trolling those people for a while, and have a sense of what works/doesn't.
14:34 < _NSAKEY> If you encourage them to bring a fully automatic weapon to work and murder as many of their co-workers as possible... They will probably hang up on you pretty quickly. Just a tip.
14:34 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: about Mint, I haven't used it, but it looks to add enough to make it a viable 'fork', it has custom set of updater/installer/settings/backup, etc.
14:34 < dasunt> Aren't their CC numbers that validate but are only used for testing?
14:34 < dasunt> Er, there.
14:34  * dasunt is on cough medication today.
14:35 < _NSAKEY> dasunt: I did that to one guy. A friend told me that was probably illegal, so I stopped doing that.
14:35 < _NSAKEY> It's far funnier to rick roll them until they hang up anyway.
14:35 <@RangerZ> _NSAKEY: yeah it is illegal, its actually 'wire fraud'
14:35 < _NSAKEY> Just give them a plausible fake name and an address for something interesting like a model home, or a house that burned down.
14:36 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: I don't get why that would even be a crime since they can't run the CC, but whatever.
14:36 < _NSAKEY> I don't really care about the law, but rick rolling turns out to be funnier.
14:36 <@RangerZ> just b/c you 'suck at being a criminal' doesn't mean you didn't give false info
14:36 <@RangerZ> lol
14:36 <@RangerZ> (would be the DA's argument)
14:36 < _NSAKEY> I give false info all the time.
14:36 <@opticron> it'd be nice if you could ask CC companies for a honeypot CC number
14:36 <@RangerZ> opticron: you can if you setup your own bank
14:37 <@RangerZ> I know the banks do that
14:37 <@opticron> neat
14:37 <@RangerZ> they have entire routing #s that are nothing but for internal/police usage
14:37 < _NSAKEY> When this person at some auto parts place demanded a name and phone number because reasons, I signed "Fuck You" and put 615-867-5309 as the number.
14:38 < _NSAKEY> She was kind of hateful about it when I didn't roll over without comment like the typical sheep she deals with, so I decided to give her a piece of my mind.
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14:38 < dasunt> I'd assume it would be a common practice for banks to seed a honeypot card in their internal databases.
14:38 < _NSAKEY> In any case, I've been thinking of what to do with the research, because I feel I have more than enough to shut that company down as an MS partner.
14:39 < _NSAKEY> I have recorded calls, screencaps of phishing pages, and incorporation documents.
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14:56 < dasunt> Interesting:  http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/24/politics/harry-reid-brian-sandoval-supreme-court/index.html
14:56 < PigBot> Title: Democrat Harry Reid backs Republican for Supreme Court - CNNPolitics.com (at www.cnn.com) http://tinyurl.com/jtmgybj
14:57 <@RangerZ> well aint that some bullshit... add-apt-repository doesn't exist in ubuntu until you install software-properties-common ... i think...
14:57 < dasunt> Great quotes by a Republican in that:  "I think we can all understand in an election year they're going to try to turn this into a political football and try to make the Republicans look bad. And we made the decision that this was about principle, not the personality," Coats said.
14:57 <@RangerZ> yep
14:58 <@RangerZ> at least in docker...
14:58 < dasunt> "We pretty much had unanimous agreement that this is what we are going to do. We knew the White House will play games with us no matter what we did," he added.
15:01 <@RangerZ> dasunt: yeah I saw that... " former federal judge "
15:02 <@RangerZ> he's basically the 'hahaha, I got you fuckers" nominee
15:04 <@RangerZ> ohh... he went to Univ. of Nevada, Reno for bachelors and 'The' Ohio State University for law degree
15:04 <@RangerZ> thats actually a pretty big break with 'tradition' right there, I believe all of the current (including scalia) graduated princton or yale
15:07 <@RangerZ> The abortion rights governor has embraced Obamacare; lauded immigration reform and DREAMers; fiercely championed renewable energy; and taken lesser known actions on police body cameras, driver’s licenses for undocumented aliens and multiple moves to squelch Republican-led tort reform.
15:07 <@RangerZ> from http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/nevada-primary-brian-sandoval-213668
15:07 < PigBot> Title: Brian Sandoval: Nevadas Party Pooper - POLITICO Magazine (at www.politico.com) http://tinyurl.com/jde846l
15:07 < dasunt> Yep, I like actually getting someone from flyover country on SCOTUS.
15:07 <@RangerZ> thats basically all I needed to know, other than citizens united
15:07 <@RangerZ> and he's likely against it, from those previous stances
15:08 < dasunt> Obama has made a smooth move.
15:08 <@RangerZ> where the fuck is other Republicans like that
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15:08 <@RangerZ> we get fucking morons who think bucket sicks are 'muslim foot baths'
15:08 < dasunt> The other Republicans like that are easy to find.  First you build a time machine.  Then you go back to about 1978 or so...
15:09 <@RangerZ> dasunt: I told my advisor that once, that I'm a 1950s Republican, aka a 'flaming liberal' in 2012
15:09 < smccombs> wow.... what the hell did I just step in
15:09 < smccombs> lol
15:10 <@RangerZ> smccombs: this is nothing, this channel is ... interesting... if nothing else
15:10 <@RangerZ> there is no 'safe zone' here
15:10 <@RangerZ> you gotta be able to be called a fucker for reminding people that tomorrow is not saturday, etc lol
15:11 < dasunt> smccombs: We're just discussing rumors that Obama will nominate a moderate Republican to SCOTUS.
15:11 <@RangerZ> shit... I did it to myself *is sad now*
15:12 < smccombs> yeah... I'm going to stay out of this one
15:12 < smccombs> Good luck guys
15:12 <@RangerZ> dasunt: ohh wow... just think of the implications... sandival wouldn't be able to 'endorse' anyone in the general
15:12 <@RangerZ> you know... the ONLY repubican that has decent stances
15:14 <@RangerZ> smccombs: we're mostly non-Democrats in here, but realize that the 'GOP' is pretty much the worse of 2 evils ;) lol
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15:49 < dasunt> I think I'm more of a moderate, but the Republican party has left me.  :(
15:52 <@RangerZ> I'm a pragmatist, who believes in science
15:52 <@Dagmar> I think you're mistaken about how politics in this country work if you think "moderate" == "Republican" somehow (or ever
15:52 <@RangerZ> therefore I'm legally not allowed to a GOP meeting
15:53 < dasunt> Dagmar: I think the GOP once had a more moderate faction.  Actually, both of the major parties did.
15:54 < dasunt> Then somehow (90's?) Dems swung right, taking over a good chunk of moderate territory, and left the GOP on the fringe.
15:54 <@Dagmar> I think at one point their primary job goal was doing the bidding of the citizens they represented
15:54 <@Dagmar> ...but that bears exactly not one fucking bit on what they're doing now.
15:54 <@Dagmar> We need to put together some PSAs about what an oligarchy is
15:55 <@Dagmar> ...and the many ways in which it differs from a democracy or a republic
15:55 <@Dagmar> ...because Bernie Sanders is basically the only _non_ oligarch running
15:55 <@RangerZ> well look at the princeton study that 'public opinion has had 0 statistical impact upon policy for the past 40 years'
15:56 <@Dagmar> Precisely
15:56 <@RangerZ> the only thing that impacted was 'opinion of people in top 1%'
15:56 < dasunt> Look at how much time congresscritters spend raising funds for their next campaign.
15:56 <@RangerZ> (I think it was actually 1.56%) but still
15:56 <@Dagmar> The Bill of Rights?  This is basically fucking window dressing to an oligarchy
15:56 <@Dagmar> It's just some ad copy they ran to sucker people in that they have no intentions of following through on unless they're sued
15:56 <@RangerZ> dasunt: you want to know what _single_ statistic stopped me from entering politics back home
15:57 <@RangerZ> that congressmen spend at least 60~70% of their time looking for donations
15:57 <@Dagmar> ...and while the BBB is relatively ineffective in these matters, by comparison, the oligarchy doesn't even have a BBB to hold it accountable
15:57 <@RangerZ> hell with TPA we won't even be able to pass laws anymore in the USA that big corporations don't like
15:57 <@Dagmar> RangerZ: Not all of them.  Take Vermin Supreme for example
15:58 < dasunt> I see the Bill of Rights being a little mistargeted nowadays.  You could follow it to the letter, and it still leaves a pretty big loophole since it doesn't protect one against non-Government abuses.  What does it matter if the government can't spy on me as long as businesses are?
15:58 <@RangerZ> actually the bill of rights has no legal distinction
15:58 <@RangerZ> any amendment after it can override/take away those 'rights'
15:58 <@Dagmar> Our _entire_ constitution is treated the same way
15:58 <@Dagmar> It's not just the Bill of Rights
15:59 <@Dagmar> They give not one single shit for the Constitution or the people they're supposed to represent, and it takes _lawsuits_ to make them care
15:59 <@RangerZ> thats what 1) corporations being "people" 2) money being "speech" gives you
15:59 < _NSAKEY> Dagmar: That's better than butchering them like cattle in order to make them care.
15:59 <@RangerZ> both which I think is BS
16:00 <@Dagmar> HAHAHAHAHHAH
16:00 <@Dagmar> http://www.newschannel5.com/news/former-employee-sues-rutherford-co-sheriffs-office
16:00 <@Dagmar> wait, no
16:00 < PigBot> Title: Former Employee Sues Rutherford Co. Sheriffs Office - Story (at www.newschannel5.com) http://tinyurl.com/hgdhblm
16:00 <@Dagmar> https://plus.google.com/+AndriySavchuk/posts/WQVr5qbGLSU
16:00 <@Dagmar> There
16:00 < PigBot> Title: +NIA Ops​ this joke?) "анал ввода команд открыт" translated "anal command input… (at plus.google.com) http://tinyurl.com/z67up6p
16:02 <@RangerZ> uhh ohh... looks like skydog is going to start playing ingress
16:02 <@RangerZ> hehe
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17:40 <@RangerZ> http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/un-democratic-party-dnc-chair-says-superdelegates-ensure-elites-dont-have-run
17:40 < PigBot> Title: Un-Democratic Party: DNC Chair Says Superdelegates Ensure Elites Don't Have to Run 'Against Grassroots Activists' | Alternet (at www.alternet.org) http://tinyurl.com/zjwd88j
17:40 <@RangerZ> she's actually -hurting- the democratic party, b/c she limited the debates, and that does nothing but give the democrats free TV time
17:50 <@RangerZ> dfused: the only problem with the Sandivol is that he _IS_ very conservative, but he is only being 'good' in -elected office-
17:50 <@RangerZ> dfused: I'd have to see his judicial record (but that was also prep for running too)
17:50 <@RangerZ> but once on SCOTUS he 'can be himself'
17:51 <@RangerZ> and nominating a liberal justice would make the GOP worse
17:52 <@RangerZ> which would help in november
17:52 < dfused> Dagmar != dfused
17:53 <@RangerZ> yes, and?
17:53 <@RangerZ> sorry
17:53 <@RangerZ> dasunt: ^
17:53 <@RangerZ> there we go
17:53 < dfused> ah...ok.
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18:11 <@sasquatc3> hmm, i see why places who use Go want C programmers
18:11 <@sasquatc3> this is almost the same, with some shortcuts taken
18:12 <@sasquatc3> +garbage and a few other things
19:44 <@RangerZ> sasquatc3: looks to be "C+"
19:44 <@RangerZ> 'not all the way to C++ but like halfway there'
19:44 <@RangerZ> lol
19:46 <@sasquatc3> exactly
19:47 <@sasquatc3> im goin through their 'tour' right now, removes alot of the stupid crap that people fuck up on, still providers pointers and memory usage while having built in checks and reference follow throughs, just alot of things that people easily crash on
19:47 <@sasquatc3> brushin up, this is what comcasts backend/IPTV/server/etc teams use, talkin with a friend of mine who's a principal lead there on friday
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20:19 <@RangerZ> review the GoF Design Patterns book
20:20 <@RangerZ> and then POSA 2 book too if you can
20:20 <@RangerZ> especially with Google, they are all about Design Patterns in their tools/languages/etc
20:27 <@RangerZ> posa 2 in particular is the foundation upon which almost all servers are designed now a days
20:28 <@RangerZ> because there is basically a limited number of designs for accepting coming connections
20:30 <@RangerZ> sasquatc3: http://www.dre.vanderbilt.edu/~schmidt/POSA/POSA2/ you don't need the book, but the contents are listed here, wiki has good enough explanations of them
20:30 < PigBot> Title: Pattern-Oriented Software Architecture: Patterns for Concurrent and Networked Objects (at www.dre.vanderbilt.edu) http://tinyurl.com/gvod3ge
20:38 <@sasquatc3> well ill ask him on friday, he didnt know any Go when he went there, they gave him a couple months to learn it and sort through their code base
20:38 <@sasquatc3> so Im pretty sure they dont expect people to have it all down when they show up since it isnt that widely used
20:40 <@RangerZ> yeah, but being able to describe how to design a 'server connection' is often quite useful in those type of job applications
20:40 <@sasquatc3> ahh
20:41 <@RangerZ> its not about 'specifics'
20:41 <@RangerZ> b/c posa was written in c and c++
20:41 <@RangerZ> but is not taught in java
20:41 <@RangerZ> python would work too
20:41 <@sasquatc3> k
20:41 <@RangerZ> so 'go' should qualify too
20:42 <@RangerZ> b/c there is really only a couple possible designs
20:42 <@RangerZ> reactor vs proactor
20:45 <@sasquatc3> good stuff, i do also have to ask another coworker what they asked her, she interviewed with them about a year ago and got an offer but turned it down, which she's still kicking herself over
20:45 <@sasquatc3> and im closer to her level than his, so she can give me a good idea of what they expect
20:47 <@RangerZ> nice
20:48 <@RangerZ> I'll give you a discount for my consulting fee, since you are in here, when you get the job you can just give me 5% of your signing bonus
20:49 <@RangerZ> ;) hehe
20:49 <@sasquatc3> hehe
20:49 <@sasquatc3> well before our friend shows up at happy hour we got a headhunter that wanted to talk to all of us there first, but the place she's trying to get us to go to im not so sure about
20:52 <@RangerZ> well, I can introduce you to Abashek at ISIS if that is a better offer for you
20:52 <@RangerZ> hehe
20:52 <@sasquatc3> oh yea, forgot i had a safari account, they got that pattern book
20:53 <@RangerZ> posa?
20:53 <@sasquatc3> yea
20:53 <@RangerZ> 2 then 3 then 5
20:53 <@RangerZ> each volume is a DIFFERENT book
20:53 <@sasquatc3> ok
20:54 <@RangerZ> encyclopeidic not 'revisions'
20:54 <@RangerZ> I made that mistake and bought 5 first
20:54 <@RangerZ> and was like ...wtf...
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21:15 <@RangerZ> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/technology/apple-is-said-to-be-working-on-an-iphone-even-it-cant-hack.html
21:15 < PigBot> Title: Apple Is Said to Be Trying to Make It Harder to Hack iPhones - NYTimes.com (at www.nytimes.com) http://tinyurl.com/jp3zqj7
21:15 <@RangerZ> "sorry, even we can't break into the phone when its locked"
21:15 <@RangerZ> "neener neener neeener"
21:22 <@RangerZ> aestetix: damn it... see what you've done to the EU http://www.pressherald.com/2016/02/24/amnesty-says-human-rights-respect-declines-across-europe/
21:22 < PigBot> Title: Amnesty says human rights respect declines across Europe - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram (at www.pressherald.com) http://tinyurl.com/zltenmm
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22:07 <@RangerZ> http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/223567-amd-clobbers-nvidia-in-updated-ashes-of-the-singularity-directx-12-benchmark
22:07 < PigBot> Title: AMD clobbers Nvidia in updated Ashes of the Singularity DirectX 12 benchmark | ExtremeTech (at www.extremetech.com) http://tinyurl.com/hhvkmoz
22:07 <@RangerZ> apparently nvidia doesn't see any improvement with dx12
22:15 <@RangerZ> apparently the reason for this is that the GCN (the tech that has been in AMD cards since 7000 series cards) was designed for 'asynchronous compute'
22:17 <@RangerZ> and since thats the way that game studios are doing the work on consoles, that they will do that on PC likely too, so basically its almost the risc vs cisc type of arch design battle
22:18 <@sasquatc3> yup, theres some new articles today about the dx12 mixing capabilities, that nvidia fail is pretty old
22:18 <@sasquatc3> but they got people testing mixed amd+nvidia systems now on the ashes beta2
22:18 <@sasquatc3> since dx12 handles sharing multiple cards regardless of arch/manufacturer/etc
22:18 <@RangerZ> nvidia will fucking go BESERK when someone figures out how to have 2 AMD cards in SLI and then a 3rd NV card for physX
22:19 <@RangerZ> their driver won't even allow you to install it if it detects the AMD driver
22:19 <@RangerZ> LOL
22:19 <@sasquatc3> http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-the-singularity-benchmark-unites-amd-and-nvidia-under-dx12sort-of/
22:19 < PigBot> Title: Ashes of the Singularity benchmark unites AMD and Nvidia under DX12—sort of - PC Gamer (at www.pcgamer.com) http://tinyurl.com/jcjulpn
22:19 <@sasquatc3> http://www.maximumpc.com/ashes-of-the-singularity-beta-2/
22:19 < PigBot> Title: Ashes of the Singularity Beta 2 - Maximum PC (at www.maximumpc.com) http://tinyurl.com/j3ndahx
22:21 <@RangerZ> the fact that AMD is making the CPU/GPUs for all 3 gaming consoles (including the upcoming nintendo NX) means they pretty much get to dictate what kind of 'paradigm' studios design their engines with
22:21 <@RangerZ> and from my understanding... asynch compute _IS_ the way you should use DX 12/Vulkan
22:21 <@sasquatc3> yea, but i got hopes for pascal that nvidia will up their async game
22:21 <@RangerZ> hopefully
22:21 <@RangerZ> I want competition again, thats all
22:21 <@sasquatc3> im waiting on that chipset before thinking about doing a new build
22:21 <@RangerZ> I have a 770
22:22 <@RangerZ> amd's looks to be out earlier this year
22:22 <@RangerZ> they announced 'mid year' for 400 series
22:22 <@sasquatc3> well i got a 970, so im not exactly hurting, but im running on a 2600k, and while the processor is still awesome, the mobo is old as hell and lacking so much
22:22 <@RangerZ> NV still hasn't made that anouncement
22:22 <@sasquatc3> thats my main reason for a new build is a new intel chipset
22:22 <@RangerZ> my understanding is that you should stay with the 2600k
22:23 <@RangerZ> at least until zen
22:23 <@RangerZ> or until next year for intel
22:23 <@RangerZ> (zen will be xmas time anyways)
22:23 <@sasquatc3> well thats why im fine with waiting for now, see how reviews pan out and see if its actually worth the effort and money
22:23 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: You should always wait. That's never changed.
22:24 < _NSAKEY> Look at me and my little story about buying a pi just days before the pi 2 was announced for the same money.
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22:24 <@sasquatc3> my main interest was for a rift/vive, but i want to see how those work on a 970 first, to see if its necessary, and decide if i really want one
22:24 < _NSAKEY> That was a surprise, and I'm still butthurt at the pi foundation for that sneak attack announcement.
22:24 <@klixa> i hate it when that happens
22:24 <@RangerZ> 970 is 'minimum good experience'
22:25 <@sasquatc3> right, which i never have faith in min-reqs
22:25 <@klixa> speaking of itty bity computers, i like that new pine one
22:25 <@RangerZ> sasquatc3: valve aldready has benchmark out
22:25 <@RangerZ> you can run it without VR headset
22:25 <@RangerZ> http://store.steampowered.com/app/323910/
22:25 < PigBot> Title: SteamVR Performance Test on Steam (at store.steampowered.com) http://tinyurl.com/hdyuxcc
22:25 <@sasquatc3> yea, i tried it, said i was in the green, but since the rift said a 970 was min, i can see it only running satisfactorily for like 3months
22:26 <@sasquatc3> by then devs have pushed out updates/new games that start to push it and it runs like crap
22:26 <@RangerZ> no, devs are going to have to stay BELOW 'graphical fidelity'
22:26 <@RangerZ> you're going to have pretty shitty experience with current tech no matter what, lol
22:26 <@RangerZ> unless you have 2 cards running DX12/vulkan
22:27 <@RangerZ> because they allow each card to render separately each eye
22:27 <@sasquatc3> right, which is why i really pitty my friend that went all in on a titan, tried to warn him, now you got pascal coming out 5mo after he bought his card and the base level pascal will probably be 2x+ the performance
22:28 <@RangerZ> nope
22:28 <@RangerZ> 2.5x
22:28 <@RangerZ> hehe
22:28 <@sasquatc3> well i downgraded it a bit since flops != game performance, but it should still be substantial
22:29 <@RangerZ> ohh nvm, its 7 tflops with titan, and 12 with pascal
22:29 <@RangerZ> I didn't think titan was that high
22:29 < _NSAKEY> By base, what do you guys mean?
22:29 < _NSAKEY> The $100 cards?
22:30 <@RangerZ> no
22:30 <@sasquatc3> like 970 type level, not super high range, but affordable
22:30 <@RangerZ> 'base' is 970 equivilant or 280 equivilant, so the 300$ card
22:30 <@RangerZ> thats the base 'actual new chips' generally
22:30 <@RangerZ> below that is almost always rebadges
22:31 < _NSAKEY> That's like my card.
22:31 < _NSAKEY> It's a 650 Ti BOOST. It's just a 660 with a SIMD lasered off.
22:32 <@RangerZ> yeah, I'm _really_ curious to see the first vulkan benchmarks
22:32 <@RangerZ> since AMD and NV are already proposing extensions
22:32 <@sasquatc3> there should be some from the talos beta builds
22:32 < _NSAKEY> A few months later, Maxwell came out, which turned out to be more fitting for what I use my card for the most (password cracking).
22:32 <@sasquatc3> http://www.anandtech.com/show/10047/quick-look-vulkan-performance-on-the-talos-principle
22:32 < PigBot> Title: Quick Look: Vulkan Performance on The Talos Principle (at www.anandtech.com) http://tinyurl.com/zsa26ot
22:33 < _NSAKEY> At the time, I wasn't even using hashcat though, so it was just "Oh, whatever" for me.
22:33 <@RangerZ> live and learn
22:33 <@sasquatc3> oh thats right, i did already read these, vulkan is still way behind even DX11
22:33 <@RangerZ> or vote for trump
22:33 < _NSAKEY> That was the thing, I didn't care all that hard.
22:33 <@sasquatc3> but once they start pushin out updates should get better quick
22:33 < _NSAKEY> My idea was to buy a $150 card right then, then buy another one in another few years.
22:34 <@RangerZ> sasquatc3: what makes me happy about vulkan is that it is completely open standard, even the conformance tests
22:34 <@RangerZ> which means we can actually keep venders honest
22:34 <@sasquatc3> true
22:35 <@RangerZ> amd is actually having trouble with a couple last vulkan bugs, b/c they switched their driver to the entirely new code base/framework
22:35 <@RangerZ> which is ironic as hell, lol
22:35 <@RangerZ> so they were the only major vender to not have driver ready on vulkan day 0, hehe
22:35 <@sasquatc3> i would expect vulkan to really improve mobile performance tho, since the majority of embedded device use opengl of some sort
22:35 <@sasquatc3> once that filters down to everyone, should be good
22:36 <@RangerZ> especially since there is no ES version
22:37 <@RangerZ> same exact language, you just tell it how much hardware you are targetting and go from there
22:37 <@RangerZ> and the shaders are pre-compiled, not 'on the fly' like openGL
22:38 <@RangerZ> so that should save a lot of 'hassle' developing if nothing else
22:38 <@sasquatc3> yea, maybe broadcom will have their shit together on that one, we had so many problems on their first opengles 'supported' chip
22:38 <@sasquatc3> most of their shit didnt work at all
22:38 <@RangerZ> lol
22:38 < _NSAKEY> sasquatc3: That's what you get for not immediately purging anything related to broadcon.
22:38 <@RangerZ> i watched the day 0 presentation and they had Q&A
22:38 < _NSAKEY> *broadcom.
22:38 <@RangerZ> someone asked about RaPi
22:39 <@sasquatc3> well broadcom has a stranglehold on the settop box arena, its either them, or comcast uses motorola
22:39 <@RangerZ> and they were like 'umm.... broadcom is a member of khronos, and said it is implementing vulkan in its SoCs"
22:39 <@sasquatc3> thats about it, ST used to make some but they got out of the game basically
22:44 <@RangerZ> emu kill
22:44 <@RangerZ> :/
22:44 <@RangerZ> wrong window
22:45 <@RangerZ> no Dagmar I'm not playing gnomoria-by-cli hehe
22:46 <@RangerZ> sasquatc3: nvm... titan has  4.5. Teraflops Single precision and titan x has 7
22:46 <@RangerZ> so 4.5 up to 12 with pascal
22:46 <@sasquatc3> yea, those were the numbers i saw
22:46 <@RangerZ> so yeah... 2.5x
22:46 <@RangerZ> I was just joking
22:47 <@sasquatc3> hehe, nope, i started lookin around when i saw an article last week and someone mentioned 4.5 on a titan when pascal was at 12, so i had to compare
22:49 <@sasquatc3> the jump on double precision is something like 20x
22:49 <@RangerZ> "NVIDIA sent a note over this afternoon letting us know that asynchornous shading is not enabled in their current drivers,"
22:49 <@RangerZ> that would explain it
22:49 <@sasquatc3> but thats more useful for data processing stuff
22:49 <@RangerZ> for the DX 12 benchmarks
22:50 <@RangerZ> yeah, bitcoin mining 'might' become profitable again for 4 days
22:50 <@RangerZ> hehe
22:50 <@sasquatc3> so pascal should be killer for non-gaming tasks
22:50 <@RangerZ> (not really)
22:50 <@RangerZ> they are using FPGA server racks now for that shit
22:51 <@sasquatc3> yea, well they moved on to asics a few years ago i thought
22:51 <@sasquatc3> but thats always the next move after youve done fpga
22:51 <@sasquatc3> if its profitable enough
22:51 <@RangerZ> probably, I stopped paying attention
22:51 <@RangerZ> but I -still- think that bitcoin is an attack on AES
22:52 <@RangerZ> if you've read bruce schneier's discussions of AES, and how it can just be 'suddenly broken' by a new math theorm
22:53 <@RangerZ> knowing every input hash to make RSA produce 000s leads me to believe that its some kind of assualt on AES itself, not RSA
22:54 <@RangerZ> which wouldn't work for EC based handshaking encryption
22:54 <@RangerZ> but... most still uses rsa
22:55 <@RangerZ> https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/02/security_vulner_5.html ohh goodie
22:55 < PigBot> Title: Security Vulnerability in giblc DNS - Schneier on Security (at www.schneier.com) http://tinyurl.com/huevngz
22:55 <@RangerZ> didn't even see that one
22:56 <@RangerZ> honestly... its not worth my sanity to try and keep up with security now a days... just auto-patch
22:56 <@RangerZ> lol
22:56 < _NSAKEY> RangerZ: That one can be mitigated by using DNS servers that set max-udp to 2048.
22:57 < _NSAKEY> Also... https://hashcat.net/forum/thread-5179.html
22:57 < PigBot> Title: Thoughts on Pascal? (at hashcat.net) http://tinyurl.com/jkg7tj7
22:57 < _NSAKEY> If more has come out about Pascal since then, I'd be interested in reading about it.
22:57 < _NSAKEY> If it has good gains for people like *coin miners, it will have good gains for password crackers too.
22:58 <@sasquatc3> http://techfrag.com/2016/02/17/nvidia-pascal-gp100-gpu-is-a-real-monster-with-12-tflops-sp-and-4-tflops-dp/
22:58 < PigBot> Title: Nvidia Pascal GP100 GPU is a Real Monster With 12 TFLOPS SP and 4 TFLOPS DP - TechFrag (at techfrag.com) http://tinyurl.com/zl46yy2
22:58 <@sasquatc3> thats the one that got me started
22:59 < _NSAKEY> Just speculation, based on the comments.
22:59 < _NSAKEY> In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing what they do put out.
23:00 <@sasquatc3> well the info came from a presentation from a CUDA fellow who has an nvidia profile, so he's probably testing with a pre-release chip
23:02 < _NSAKEY> Still, old info.
23:03 <@sasquatc3> yea, it is old
--- Log closed Thu Feb 25 00:00:40 2016